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[BluRayHiDef]

Solitary confinement is considered to be an inhumane form of imprisonment due to human beings' need for social interaction. However, I argue the following: safety is more important than one's need for social interaction, which applies to both jail and prison; and confinement is meant to be a penalty and therefore is not supposed to be pleasant, which applies to prison. Therefore, I think that jails and prisons should be redesigned to facilitate a more solitary form of confinement for all inmates that's slightly less extreme than current solitary confinement.

Based on my viewings of documentaries and the personal accounts of YouTubers who have spent time in United States' jails and prisons, said facilities are characterized by gang feuding, beatings and slashings, drug dealing, extortion, and even sexual assault.

Hence, in my opinion, these facilities should be redesigned in order to minimize physical contact between inmates. Subsequently, every inmate should be assigned their own cell in which there should be a shower (in addition to a sink and toilet) and a small caged patio or terrace. Both of these changes would eliminate contact between the inmates and subsequently eliminate the aforementioned characterizations of current United States' jails and prisons.

The caged patios/ terraces would be supplemented with one weekly visit to outdoor recreational areas per inmate in order to prevent inmates from feeling trapped in their cells. However, because the visits would be only weekly rather than daily, a minimal number of inmates would occupy an outdoor recreational area at any given time and would be shackled and individually accompanied by guards in order to prevent physical contact between them.

As for meals, inmates would eat in their cells, thus eliminating the need for them to eat in a shared space, in which they could make physical contact.

Misbehavior would result in a more extreme form of confinement, characrerized by occupation in a cell without windows and no visits to outdoor recreational areas.

 

[bitbydeath]

 

[Jethalal]

It is inhumane and how would they be re-assimilated into the society after their term is over if you deprive them of social interactions. Specially if you consider many of the jailed people probably suffer from psychological or social anxiety-esque issues which would be amplified due to this.

Humans even value social interactions more than safety. If during the lockdowns this year we wouldn't have had means to communicate through online means, I am sure many people would have gone insane and even though there are online comm. methods, many broke lockdown rules to party or chill.

Solitary confinement is arguably worse and should be used only in extreme cases where an inmate could harm others.

 

[FreedomOfSpeech]

I'll take solitary over gang fights thanks.

I say bring back corporal punishment, could save a lot of jail time and MONEY.

 

[Cyberpunkd]

Solitary confinement is considered to be an inhumane form of imprisonment due to human beings' need for social interaction. However, I argue the following: safety is more important than one's need for social interaction, which applies to both jail and prison; and confinement is meant to be a penalty and therefore is not supposed to be pleasant, which applies to prison. Therefore, I think that jails and prisons should be redesigned to facilitate a more solitary form of confinement for all inmates that's slightly less extreme than current solitary confinement.

Prisons in many countries outside of the US are meant as a way to re-educate and reintegrate prisoners into society so they do not commit crimes again. Your ideas of solitary confinement go directly against that - guess which country has the highest rate of prisoners per capita?

 

[Ten_Fold]

I love what you wanna do OP, but unfortunately prison is a billion dollar business, so they don’t care enough help those people get the help they need. I wish they had their own showers, decent food, more sunlight, better mental programs and even legit opportunities to become a better citizen. Especially teens who come from a fucked up environment and have no type of guidance, but the way the system is setup is to make money off the inmates.

 

[West Texas CEO]

 

[Papa]

Incelibacy is a kind of solitary confinement when you think about it

 

[BluRayHiDef]

It is inhumane and how would they be re-assimilated into the society after their term is over if you deprive them of social interactions. Specially if you consider many of the jailed people probably suffer from psychological or social anxiety-esque issues which would be amplified due to this.

Humans even value social interactions more than safety. If during the lockdowns this year we wouldn't have had means to communicate through online means, I am sure many people would have gone insane and even though there are online comm. methods, many broke lockdown rules to party or chill.

Solitary confinement is arguably worse and should be used only in extreme cases where an inmate could harm others.

The current state of United States' jails and prisons hardens inmates due to their subjection to abuse from other inmates and from correctional officers. Hence, their likelihood to recidivate is maximized, which is why so many former prisoners reoffend.

Eliminating physical contact is the best means of minimizing recidivism.

As for their mental health, they could still socialize with one another through the grates/ bars of their caged patios/ terraces from within their cells.

 

[Arkam]

Controversial take for sure. But will say well founded in basic logic. Would increase per inmate incarcerations cost but increase safety of incarcerated and POSSIBLY improve rate of recidivism. In the grand scheme, regardless the US penal system is pretty decent overall but has some significant black marks to rectify.

 

[Halo is Back]

Emm, you are just trading one pain for another. Keeping them solidarity confinement would just worsen their mental state and they sure as HELL will not be able integrate back into society and now they gotta pop some pills and take therapy . I think there are better ways to do this. I know you wont see this but I wanted to post anyway.

 

[TindalosPup]

The idea comes from a good place, but prison should come with aversion, a free steel cage mini-studio apartment makes it a bit less of a terrifying, rock bottom place to be, somewhere where it might not be as bad to come back. In fact some may argue it's better than their current circumstances.

 

[Jethalal]

The current state of United States' jails and prisons hardens inmates due to their subjection to abuse from other inmates and from correctional officers. Hence, their likelihood to recidivate is maximized, which is why so many former prisoners reoffend.

Eliminating physical contact is the best means of minimizing recidivism.

As for their mental health, they could still socialize with one another through the grates/ bars of their caged patios/ terraces from within their cells.

Let's agree to disagree. I don't think isolating them would do them any good at all. Maybe more interference by the jail staff to ensure any mishaps don't happen and the conduct between inmates is more pleasant but isolation is inhumane. Even animals like dogs, monkeys etc. long for social interactions between each other and humans in some cases, so depriving a human of this can't do them any good.

 

[BluRayHiDef]

The idea comes from a good place, but prison should come with aversion, a free steel cage mini-studio apartment makes it a bit less of a terrifying, rock bottom place to be, somewhere where it might not be as bad to come back. In fact some may argue it's better than their current circumstances.

I don't agree. Such amenities would be in the context of extreme restriction on movement in the form of confinement to a small space. Most people would not want to return to such an environment; only the most extremely introverted people would want to return.

Ironically, the social freedom and freedom of movement within current United States' jails and prisons create environments to which some former inmates don't mind returning due to being able to thrive as high ranking members of gangs and/ or predators who prey on weaker inmates.

 

[BluRayHiDef]

Let's agree to disagree. I don't think isolating them would do them any good at all. Maybe more interference by the jail staff to ensure any mishaps don't happen and the conduct between inmates is more pleasant but isolation is inhumane. Even animals like dogs, monkeys etc. long for social interactions between each other and humans in some cases, so depriving a human of this can't do them any good.

They wouldn't be deprived of social interaction but simply allowed to engage in only a very restricted form of it, which would prevent psychological issues but ensure safety.

What doesn't do prisoners any good is a practical requirement to join a gang for safety and subsequently engage in behavior that results in additional sentences, or getting slashed across the face, or raped because your small and considered feminine by prison standards.

Consider the following interview of a man who was raped in prison. He's damaged for life.

 

[TindalosPup]

I don't agree. Such amenities would be in the context of extreme restriction on movement in the form of confinement to a small space. Most people would not want to return to such an environment; only the most extremely introverted people would want to return.

Ironically, the social freedom and freedom of movement within current United States' jails and prisons create environments to which some former inmates don't mind returning due to being able to thrive as high ranking members of gangs and/ or predators who prey on weaker inmates.

You underestimate people's willingness to break laws for their own shower.

Did you know Japan has/had a problem with the low income elderly getting arrested on purpose because the amenities are better then what they had out of incarceration? There would be a spike in similar occurrences here, a lot of old people I know think prison is better than a nursing home already.

 

[BluRayHiDef]

You underestimate people's willingness to break laws for their own shower.

Did you know Japan has/had a problem with the low income elderly getting arrested on purpose because the amenities are better then what they had out of incarceration? There would be a spike in similar occurrences here, a lot of old people I know think prison is better than a nursing home already.

I'm sure that the percentage would be minimal.

 

[CertifiedKiwi]

As the saying goes we humans are moral beings and so I dont think many will view this solution as humane.

 

[Jethalal]

They wouldn't be deprived of social interaction but simply allowed to engage in only a very restricted form of it, which would prevent psychological issues but ensure safety.

What doesn't do prisoners any good is a practical requirement to join a gang for safety and subsequently engage in behavior that results in additional sentences, or getting slashed across the face, or raped because your small and considered feminine by prison standards.

Consider the following interview of a man who was raped in prison. He's damaged for life.

I doubt caging like you said would help them. As I said earlier, more intervention would be better. Get more psychologists and support staff. Prisons should be for corrections in most cases not just penalizing. You are drawing the right conclusions that system needs to be changed but are giving the wrong solution. If you have some data to back it up then maybe I could see a case being made but your solution would mentally scar them for life too. If solution is as bad as the problem, then it is a bad solution.

 

[BluRayHiDef]

As the saying goes we humans are moral beings and so I dont think many will view this solution as humane.

So, you think the current system is better than what I've proposed? Gang banging, drug dealing, slashings and beatings, and rapes? You think these current problems are more humane and than my ideas?

 

[Tesseract]

daily recreation, computers, quality food and drink, access to pairs of psychologists and psychiatrists, hot showers, beds, chairs, tables, so forth, ...

rehabilitative not punitive justice

solitary is probably best for violent criminals, otherwise make it optional

unless you wanna forego panopticon's eye for something more reasonable ...

 

[CertifiedKiwi]

So, you think the current system is better than what I've proposed? Gang banging, drug dealing, slashings and beatings, and rapes? You think these current problems are more humane and than my ideas?

I didn't say its better. But I would think more people would accept those than complete isolation without any social interactions as you've suggested.

Besides there are other solutions beside punitive measures for prison reforms...just look at Norway for example

 

[BluRayHiDef]

I didn't say its better. But I would think more people would accept those than complete isolation without any social interactions as you've suggested.

Besides there are other solutions beside punitive measures for prison reforms...just look at Norway for example

Accept beatings and slashings? Extortion by other inmates? Rape?

Go to 4:28.



This sort of violence needs to be eliminated.

 

[Jethalal]

Accept beatings and slashings? Extortion by other inmates? Rape?

Go to 4:28.



This sort of violence needs to be eliminated.

Then what are your thoughts on the suggestions by me and Tesseract , we never said the problems are not there, we said your solutions are wrong.

 

[BluRayHiDef]

Then what are your thoughts on the suggestions by me and Tesseract , we never said the problems are not there, we said your solutions are wrong.

You two's ideas don't contradict mine; they can exist in combination with solitary imprisonment.

The gang culture and criminal underclass of the United States necessitates solitary imprisonment. What works in Norway will not work here.

 

[Soodanim]

Doesn’t America have for-profit prisons? That’s a strange and scary concept.

 

[Jethalal]

You two's ideas don't contradict mine; they can exist in combination with solitary imprisonment.

The gang culture and criminal underclass of the United States necessitates solitary imprisonment. What works in Norway will not work here.

How will isolating people help in correcting them or rehabilitation? Weekly visits to others are too low. Try staying in a room alone with no contact all for 2-3 days. Remember you probably won't have any games to play.

The problem is tough, doesn't means we'll find a sub-par solution. You don't have to replicate Norway but your suggestion might make the problem worse. It's not just about solitary confinement but you want to minimize any interaction at all, what do you think will be the effects of that on their mental health? What will happen when they resort to drugs after their sentence is finished to cope up with depression, anxiety, etc. Your suggestion might sound good on paper to some but when we consider the repercussions and the morality behind it, I doubt it will be any good.

 

[BluRayHiDef]

How will isolating people help in correcting them or rehabilitation? Weekly visits to others are too low. Try staying in a room alone with no contact all for 2-3 days. Remember you probably won't have any games to play.

The problem is tough, doesn't means we'll find a sub-par solution. You don't have to replicate Norway but your suggestion might make the problem worse. It's not just about solitary confinement but you want to minimize any interaction at all, what do you think will be the effects of that on their mental health? What will happen when they resort to drugs after their sentence is finished to cope up with depression, anxiety, etc. Your suggestion might sound good on paper to some but when we consider the repercussions and the morality behind it, I doubt it will be any good.

As I've said in other posts, they'd be able to talk to one another from their caged patios/ terraces. As for activities, they can read books any time they want and watch television for a limited time every day.

 

[BluRayHiDef]

Look at this. This shouldn't be happening in prisons.

C.o and inmate

Inmates in prison help an officer to fight another inmate

youtube.com

 

[Mistershine.]

I had an idea for a new type of prison for lifers. Instead of normal prison they get to choose my new one if they want. You get a bed with a memory foam mattress, a sofa, a bathroom with a shower, access to movies and music, offline games consoles, good food including occasional take away deliveries, a library, and regular visits from family. You also get AIDS, along with the medical care needed to treat/manage it and research a possible cure.

 

[Jethalal]

First of all, you watch very weird YT videos.

Second can you provide some sort of diagram or concept of your cages, I wanna see how intrusive would they be.

You never talked about books or movies in your initial post.

 

[BluRayHiDef]

First of all, you watch very weird YT videos.

Second can you provide some sort of diagram or concept of your cages, I wanna see how intrusive would they be.

You never talked about books or movies in your initial post.

I don't watch those videos above. I simply searched for "videos from inside prisons" to provide examples of what happens in prisons for the sake of this thread.

As for books and movies, I mentioned them afterwards as new ideas to indicate that my original idea can be expanded upon to make imprisonment more tolerable without enabling physical interaction.

 

[NahaNago]

First of all, you watch very weird YT videos.

Second can you provide some sort of diagram or concept of your cages, I wanna see how intrusive would they be.

You never talked about books or movies in your initial post.

You are really wanting a lot. Shouldn't it just be the bare minimum where you can talk and see a fellow prisoner through a hole in the wall or through a couple of metal bars. I mean you are not in jail to socialize.

 

[BluRayHiDef]

You are really wanting a lot. Shouldn't it just be the bare minimum where you can talk and see a fellow prisoner through a hole in the wall or through a couple of metal bars. I mean you are not in jail to socialize.

Exactly. Prison is for correction but it's also for punishment; it shouldn't be a fun experience but it also shouldn't be a dangerous one.

 

[NahaNago]

Exactly. Prison is for correction but it's also for punishment; it shouldn't be a fun experience but it also shouldn't be a dangerous one.

That is pretty much how I view it as well.

 

[Jethalal]

You are really wanting a lot. Shouldn't it just be the bare minimum where you can talk and see a fellow prisoner through a hole in the wall or through a couple of metal bars. I mean you are not in jail to socialize.

Our views on purpose of jail might differ. I feel they should rehabilitate people not just penalize. Social interactions are an important part of that. The OP wasn't very clear on what he meant by solitary confinement too that's why I asked for design or similar concept. Keeping people in one cell for a whole week seems bizarre and realistically you can see one person from other cell. I am not talking about making clubs for these people or 'cliques' if you will but I am just pointing that OP's ideas have tendency to cause more harm than good. I have gone 2 days alone at my home and that turned me mad, I can imagine a week for who knows how long will cause a lot of problems.

 

[BluRayHiDef]

Our views on purpose of jail might differ. I feel they should rehabilitate people not just penalize. Social interactions are an important part of that. The OP wasn't very clear on what he meant by solitary confinement too that's why I asked for design or similar concept. Keeping people in one cell for a whole week seems bizarre and realistically you can see one person from other cell. I am not talking about making clubs for these people or 'cliques' if you will but I am just pointing that OP's ideas have tendency to cause more harm than good. I have gone 2 days alone at my home and that turned me mad, I can imagine a week for who knows how long will cause a lot of problems.

A murderer, armed robber, rapist, or other violent criminal deserves to be "made mad." They're sent to prison to be corrected but also to suffer for their actions; however, their suffering should be confinement in and of itself rather than subjection to violence from other inmates.

 

[Jethalal]

A murderer, armed robber, rapist, or other violent criminal deserves to be "made mad." They're sent to prison to be corrected but also to suffer for their actions; however, their suffering should be confinement in and of itself rather than subjection to violence from other inmates.

Please read these pages:

Mass Incarceration: The Whole Pie 2020

Report showing the number of people who are locked up in the United States and why

www.prisonpolicy.org

Incarceration in the United States - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

I'm sure you know most people aren't in for rape, murder, etc. and many are in for non-violent crimes too.

 

[nush]

The caged patios/ terraces would be supplemented with one weekly visit to outdoor recreational areas per inmate in order to prevent inmates from feeling trapped in their cells.

You can only go outside once a week, I'm sure that will stave off the feelings of isolation. Humans are social creatures, but it's no surprise OP does not understand this concept at all.

Also this topic needs more Youtube videos.

 

[NahaNago]

Our views on purpose of jail might differ. I feel they should rehabilitate people not just penalize. Social interactions are an important part of that. The OP wasn't very clear on what he meant by solitary confinement too that's why I asked for design or similar concept. Keeping people in one cell for a whole week seems bizarre and realistically you can see one person from other cell. I am not talking about making clubs for these people or 'cliques' if you will but I am just pointing that OP's ideas have tendency to cause more harm than good. I have gone 2 days alone at my home and that turned me mad, I can imagine a week for who knows how long will cause a lot of problems.

I can already tell that it differs. For me jail is meant to only penalize. Rehabilitation, reeducation, and reintroduction in to society should be a step you do after you serve your sentence similar to how they keep kinda keep track of your progress on probation or something you do near the end of your sentence if this sounds like a continuation of your jail time.

 

[Jethalal]

I can already tell that it differs. For me jail is meant to only penalize. Rehabilitation, reeducation, and reintroduction in to society should be a step you do after you serve your sentence similar to how they keep kinda keep track of your progress on probation or something you do near the end of your sentence if this sounds like a continuation of your jail time.

Let's agree to disagree.

 

[Tesseract]

prison should reform and rehabilitate across multiple dimensions

tearing people down is easy, building them back up is hard

 

[BluRayHiDef]

Please read these pages:

Mass Incarceration: The Whole Pie 2020

Report showing the number of people who are locked up in the United States and why

www.prisonpolicy.org

Incarceration in the United States - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

I'm sure you know most people aren't in for rape, murder, etc. and many are in for non-violent crimes too.

Those were just examples. My point is that people are imprisoned partially to suffer for their actions; hence, socializing should not be a right but because it's a necessity for psychological health it should be allowed but only to a restricted degree to eliminate violence.

 

[Jethalal]

Those were just examples. My point is that people are imprisoned partially to suffer for their actions; hence, socializing should not be a right but because it's a necessity for psychological health it should be allowed but only to a restricted degree to eliminate violence.

Well let's just say your and my degree of restriction are way off.

 

[NahaNago]

prison should reform and rehabilitate across multiple dimensions

tearing people down is easy, building them back up is hard

That isn't prison. That's a rehabilitation center. Prison's are meant to punish that is why the sentences can be so long. If all you wanted was reform or rehabilitation the prison sentences would be less than 2 years for even the most heinous of acts.

 

[BluRayHiDef]

Well let's just say your and my degree of restriction are way off.

Tell that to the victims of beatings, slashings, rape, and extortion.

No Escape: Male Rape in U.S. Prisons - Prisoners' Voices

You're an idealist and I'm a realist. Your solutions will not eliminate prison violence.

 

[Jethalal]

That isn't prison. That's a rehabilitation center. Prison's are meant to punish that is why the sentences can be so long. If all you wanted was reform or rehabilitation the prison sentences would be less than 2 years for even the most heinous of acts.

The title was jail and prison. OP should have made it clearer, people in jails are mostly for petty crimes which don't deserve the treatment that OP suggested.

 

[Tesseract]

That isn't prison. That's a rehabilitation center. Prison's are meant to punish that is why the sentences can be so long. If all you wanted was reform or rehabilitation the prison sentences would be less than 2 years for even the most heinous of acts.

i believe in rehabilitative not punitive justice wherever possible

basically norway's model, taken with the understanding that certain individuals will never walk outside those bars again

 

[BluRayHiDef]

The title was jail and prison. OP should have made it clearer, people in jails are mostly for petty crimes which don't deserve the treatment that OP suggested.

I addressed this in the OP in the very first paragraph. My solutions apply to jail for safety reasons and they apply to prison for safety and punishment.

Solitary confinement is considered to be an inhumane form of imprisonment due to human beings' need for social interaction. However, I argue the following: safety is more important than one's need for social interaction, which applies to both jail and prison; and confinement is meant to be a penalty and therefore is not supposed to be pleasant, which applies to prison.

 

[Jethalal]

Tell that to the victims of beatings, slashings, rape, and extortion.

No Escape: Male Rape in U.S. Prisons - Prisoners' Voices

You're an idealist and I'm a realist. Your solutions will not eliminate prison violence.

How many people are there for the crimes you mentioned, should everyone suffer for actions of few.

p.s. hope the batman 'chin' rub wasn't too offensive

I addressed this in the OP in the very first paragraph. My solutions apply to jail for safety reasons and they apply to prison for safety and punishment.

Even in prisons most people aren't for violent crimes, please check the data. If you want separate prisons for violent people then I might agree with you.