Synbios459
Banned
I've been thinking about this for awhile, and I really can't seem to find a way. Gene Roddenberrys' vision, while good, was not very realistic considering he made the assumption that everyone pretty much agreed with everyone else.
Is there any realistic way to get rid of poverty?
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Synbios459 said:
How much time do you have? The short answer is no... not in our lifetimes... poverty needs to be tackled/viewed as a problem that has to do with education, family, values... it's not just a problem that sits all by itself and only has one cause and one effect.
But steps can definitely be taken in our lifetime to reduce it. Living wages, better education opportunities, etc.
Yeah, but it's not a 1 step solution, it involves several things.
1. Control of overpopulation.
2. Getting a job.
3. Keeping the job.
I bet that if there weren't so many irresponsible people all around the world squeezing kids out like hamsters or rabbits, poverty would be easier to deal with.
1. Control of overpopulation.
2. Getting a job.
3. Keeping the job.
I bet that if there weren't so many irresponsible people all around the world squeezing kids out like hamsters or rabbits, poverty would be easier to deal with.
Smiles and Cries
Member
this is easy send money to my Paypal 
Synbios459
Banned
Well one of my friends dad was in a car wreck back in '97 and is COMPLETELY immobile. He can barely talk. The thing is there are 5 kids all together and they live in a small home that is practically coming down around them. Heck, one of the kids has to sleep in the kitchen! They get SSI, but apparently it's not THAT much. Not to mention they have to pay for all the medical supplies he needs. What I don't understand is why the government doesn't do more to help people in situations like the one mentioned.
You have to understand that in Gene Roddenberry's world the fundamental law of scarcity ceased to exist as its known today. Replicators made it possible for everyone for anyone to have what they needed with even the most basic of resources.
But for the meantime, we're stuck in a world in which there truly isn't enough resources to fulfill everyone's wants, and there are going to be people who get less than others. However, what condition a person is in at the bottom of the scale can be improved.
But for the meantime, we're stuck in a world in which there truly isn't enough resources to fulfill everyone's wants, and there are going to be people who get less than others. However, what condition a person is in at the bottom of the scale can be improved.
Synbios459 said:
Yeah, but here in NY you have Russians in fur coats and $90K Benz's whipping out their benefit card to get free prescriptions and their food stamps at the grocery store, and in Cali you have illegal immigrants leeching off our education and healthcare system and receiving welfare. And yet a legitimately tragic situation like this is allowed to go unaddressed and unaided. Disgusting imo. I mean, depending on the childrens' ages, they should pitch in also by getting a part-time job etc., but he should be given a hand by the gov't as well.
Yes it can, but with two important steps:
1. And evening of resource consumption worldwide. There is a HUGE discreprency in wealth and living standards in the world. There probably could be enough resources to satisfy all basic needs for everyone, only the West (in the political science meaning of the word) needs to consume less, giving more to "3rd world" countries.
2. Population control. Even in a scenario where there are enough resources right now to satisfy all, it wouldnt last very long because of irresponsibility on our (humans) part in conception of life.
Either that, or you eliminate money and all its equivalents. As long as there is money/trading, human greed will always step in.
There is really no subsitute for human greed.
I don't feel any of these things will happen, so we're all screwed down the line.
1. And evening of resource consumption worldwide. There is a HUGE discreprency in wealth and living standards in the world. There probably could be enough resources to satisfy all basic needs for everyone, only the West (in the political science meaning of the word) needs to consume less, giving more to "3rd world" countries.
2. Population control. Even in a scenario where there are enough resources right now to satisfy all, it wouldnt last very long because of irresponsibility on our (humans) part in conception of life.
Either that, or you eliminate money and all its equivalents. As long as there is money/trading, human greed will always step in.
There is really no subsitute for human greed.
I don't feel any of these things will happen, so we're all screwed down the line.
Dagless M.D.
Member
All poor people should be ground up to be fed to the rich people
ghostface said:
Only if you were being overly defensive imo.
Those two examples I mentioned are instances of fraud, and, as such, are not just. Notice how I did not complain about (legal) immigrants or citizens who legitimately need assistance getting it-- because they deserve it. But, seeing as how our system is being defrauded left and right, I felt that it's an injustice to have a situation like the one Synbios related go unaided. Only someone who is overly defensive and overly concerned with the "rights" of immigrants would take issue with what I said-- nobody of good sense would.
Sure, I could have sat there and typed out some huge post excoriating the various people and institutions responsible for the sad state of our welfare, healthcare, and educational systems (of which immigrants are but one group), but that would have taken entirely too long. Seeing as how the family in Synbios' story is in need of government assistance, I didn't think it malapropos to point out legitimate instances of fraud that I've personally witnessed, and which are allowed to go unchecked, in an effort to illustrate the warped priorities of our nation. Sorry.
Thing is Loki that it's disturbing that the things that pop right into your mind when you think of 'defrauding social security' is immigrants. I would suspect that the amount of homegrown fraud in the system from born and bred Americans is higher than that conducted by migrants. It seems like subconsciously you've connected fraud with immigrants.
Anyhoo, what you need to do is look at all the developed nations (because developing nations is a different kettle of fish entirely) and see which ones have low amounts of poverty and which ones have high. Then you see which programs and social policies of the low poverty nations can be applicable to your own nation.
We're not talking aboue eliminating poor people. We're talking about people in POVERTY. Which is a much different situation.
Anyhoo, what you need to do is look at all the developed nations (because developing nations is a different kettle of fish entirely) and see which ones have low amounts of poverty and which ones have high. Then you see which programs and social policies of the low poverty nations can be applicable to your own nation.
We're not talking aboue eliminating poor people. We're talking about people in POVERTY. Which is a much different situation.
Getting rid of poverty is strickly speaking impossible. To get money, one must work, and to work, one must be employed. In our current economic structure, there will always be unemployment, and that's what causing poverty and homelessness. Why is there unemployment ? Humans are just lazy by nature...
Screaming_Gremlin
My QB is a Dick and my coach is a Nutt
Newbie said:
No, you grind up the homeless and feed them to the hungry. Two birds with one stone.
Musashi Wins!
FLAWLESS VICTOLY!
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1 copy of Perfect Dark N64 each. Still in the plastic.
Azih said:
Sure, but not in NY. I've never seen a non-immigrant (or even certain types of immigrants) whip out the benefit card after pulling up in their Benz, but I have seen COUNTLESS Russians do so here in NY. Seriously-- come to NY and then we'll talk.
Sure, not all immigrants engage in such fraud, but in NYC, likely the greatest part of the fraud that is committed comes from immigrants, being that we have the second-highest immigrant population in the nation. In the south and middle-America, sure, American citizens commit the greatest amount of fraud, no question. I speak from what I see-- they were only examples; these "examples", drawn from what I see around me, will NEVER be an exhaustive list unless I sit here for hours and explain myself thoroughly. As such (because I wasn't about to type out a lengthy post), I didn't think it was correct to assert that I "have it out for" immigrants in some way. This is false-- I have it out for people who abuse the system.False-- it just so happens that I see it every day (whereas I never see a non-immigrant engaging in such chicanery, though of course many do- just not here in NYC that I've seen), and so, by mere frequency, it's the first thing that pops into my head. People need to stop being so defensive-- wrong is wrong.
Don't confuse our current economic implementation with economics in general. Natural resources, capital, human resources, even time... an "economy" is nothing more than a system to determine who gets what, because giving everything to anyone who wants it is an impossibility. Money is nothing more than a basis for resource exchange.NetMapel said:
The real question at hand when considering poverty is whether or not there is enough resources to fulfill everyone's basic needs, rather than their wants. Unfortunately, as the world population continues to expand, the answer may indeed become a definite "no". Paradoxically, our economy more or less depends on growth, while the resources it depends on are finite.
Dice
Pokémon Parentage Conspiracy Theorist
You wont get rid of poverty until everyone has
-Contentment/good sense of the proper things to invest in
-Hope that things can be better
-Self-confidence that they can be a reason it gets better
-Acceptance of their personal responsibility to work to make it get better
-Love to encourage and keep everyone steadfast in these things
-Contentment/good sense of the proper things to invest in
-Hope that things can be better
-Self-confidence that they can be a reason it gets better
-Acceptance of their personal responsibility to work to make it get better
-Love to encourage and keep everyone steadfast in these things
Communism needs to be braced by each country and culture though. Personally I don't see that happening. The reason why US are one of the biggest advocates on capitalism is because as flawed as it can be, it still has it's benefits. Heck the ancient Greeks went through a LOT of structural changes to find out which was the best (of course, communism wasn't really thought of), I liked the idea of a Draconian law though 
Steal bread, death penalty!
Personally I think cannibalism is the solution. It would also solve the hunger crisis, so isn't it better to kill two birds with one stone?
Steal bread, death penalty!Personally I think cannibalism is the solution. It would also solve the hunger crisis, so isn't it better to kill two birds with one stone?
CaptainABAB
Member
Depends on what you mean by "poverty"
One can be said to be living in poverty if one lives in a household whose income (adjusted for household size) is less than 40 percent the country's median household income.
In that case, you can still be in poverty but still have a good standard of living - just like the how it differs from one country to another. People in the UK feel they are poor if they do not own a car or a TV. Only wealthy people in Kenya would hope to own such things.
Based on what has happened so far in terms of history, the stndard of living has increased over time, faster in some places (USA) then in others (India, etc.) So I think poverty will always exist per se, but the human condition has improved across the board.
One can be said to be living in poverty if one lives in a household whose income (adjusted for household size) is less than 40 percent the country's median household income.
In that case, you can still be in poverty but still have a good standard of living - just like the how it differs from one country to another. People in the UK feel they are poor if they do not own a car or a TV. Only wealthy people in Kenya would hope to own such things.
Based on what has happened so far in terms of history, the stndard of living has increased over time, faster in some places (USA) then in others (India, etc.) So I think poverty will always exist per se, but the human condition has improved across the board.
DonasaurusRex
Online Ho Champ
It would take something impressive to end poverty. On the one hand you need a prosperous economy with opportunity for everyone to succeed. And then you need education education and more education so that a large majority of people bother to understand the opportunities they have and take advantage of them. Then you just need everyone EVERYONE *you said no more poverty* to go out and take what they can get from the system and bust their ass.
Hitman said:
The western countries share quite a bit already. I'm not exactly sure what else you're looking for, except perhaps worldwide welfare. Poverty in third world countries has more to do with local socio-economic and governmental factors than a "greediness" by Western nations. You can give tons of aid to a dictator, but if he doesn't spread the money around, what good is it going to do for the people? This is evident in the difference between countries that are quickly gaining ground and those that stagnate at the bottom rung.
Chinese citizens are increasingly becoming less and less poverty-stricken. I read in USA today that there are ~5 million people signing up for cell phone accounts for the first time in China every month. That's an astonishing number for a country that received its first supermarket less than 25 years ago. While China certainly is not number one for Personal liberties, the captilastic push by the government has made outstanding strides for the life of the everyday Chinese citizen.
Many African nations (but not all) on the other hand are hampered by poor natural resources, tribalistic feuds, ethnic cleansing carried out by despotic dictators as is currently happening in Sudan, and the advancement of counter-productive bogus information campaigns as literal fact (mainly I focus on sometimes government level advancement of superstitions that end up benefitting the spread of the HIV virus.). The money due to business opportunities and aid exists, but is squandered due to local factors.
Ultimately, there will always be richer people vs. poorer people, the best we can probably hope for at least in our lifetime is a constant advancement of the lowest leve and the median level of wealthiness as a whole.
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