To start, I think there should be some kind of Demogrant to get people accustomed to BI. Raise tax on the filthy rich, set aside $1000 per adult citizen. CUT THAT UP, and send a $500 check every six months to all adult citizens. That would go down incredibly well. That would be what, a bit over 200 billion dollars. Tax revenues exceed 4 trillion. That's doable.
Is "We must listen to White voters" similar to criticisms of the European Left?
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Liu Kang Baking A Pie
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I remember Bush 2 sending me $800, it was the only thing I ever got from that reign of terror. There's Republican precedent!
Didn't Obama also send a check? I seem to recall that. That's helpful as shit. If you can do that twice a year, holy shit. First, its not too big an amount to worry about inflation...it'll just be a pure boost to spending power.
I think the idea of structure basic income stuff as negative income taxes is probably the most politically palatable way of going about it. It had plenty of right-wing economists on board with it since it reduces transfer inefficiencies, and I think it taps into the idea of something "earned" versus something "given". I mean, chances are any person has some negative boogeyman/stereotype of a welfare moocherwhether it's some black "welfare queen", or some rural white guy on "disability". But even though it makes no sense that people get excited about tax refunds... people go apeshit over them every year. It's all about plating and presentation to get people to the table.
Yeah, the articles about fighting Berlusconi would've been really useful 6 months ago.
MHWilliams
Member
I have trouble seeing that argument. I can agree that message wasn't efficiently communicated, but that they've said nothing or class issues haven't been a large part of the message as well? I disagree.
I do believe in the rising tide raises all boats mantra. We really should be focusing on income inequality and finding way to improve all poor/working/middle class economic situation. I'm talking universal healthcare for the US, universal basic income, strengthening of unions, more focus on green energy, updating the laws to more reflect the trend of globalization because screw those companies that try to set up shops at regions with poorer worker rights and so on. Tons more that can be done that I believe will help everybody. I believed that will naturally also help reduce racism and sexism and other forms of discriminations. People have less reasons to discriminate when they have plenty of resources instead of fighting tooth and nail for it.
andythinkpad
Member
Try to get universal income working in resource exporting countries like Canada first.
I am not convince universal income works in a non resource exporting country.
Left, right its all the same.
Due to the way our economies and governments are run we have very little difference between any of them.
Wealth is directing our government and left and right are using peoples parochial fear, and disenfranchisement to split up and alienate people.
People are still rolling out trickle down economic theory as a reasonable method of managing finances and governments are structuring rules and regulations for corporations to take advantage of it.
When you can get the poor and disenfanchised to realise that, then they may start to realise that voting in their best interest will make their life better.
Until that time words are wind and will make no difference, when people stop using the other as the basis for their shitty lives/conditions they may actually want to do something to correct it.
Due to the way our economies and governments are run we have very little difference between any of them.
Wealth is directing our government and left and right are using peoples parochial fear, and disenfranchisement to split up and alienate people.
People are still rolling out trickle down economic theory as a reasonable method of managing finances and governments are structuring rules and regulations for corporations to take advantage of it.
When you can get the poor and disenfanchised to realise that, then they may start to realise that voting in their best interest will make their life better.
Until that time words are wind and will make no difference, when people stop using the other as the basis for their shitty lives/conditions they may actually want to do something to correct it.
Stop it.
Specifically in terms of Western history and historical precedent, racism is the biggest problem, and the core problem. Economic anxiety is a nonsense point to stand on, evidenced by what citizens in the West are about to allow our governments to do.
For example, Obama passed the Fair Labor Standards Act. In one of the provisions in this law, overtime pay has to be granted to hourly AND salaried workers that make under $47,000 per year. Not only does this protect poor workers who are salaried employees that aren't paid overtime for any extra hours they worked, but it protects middle class workers with potential raises from employers that don't want to pay time and a half. However, not only does this legislation have a chance of being repealed by the GOP Congrees, but overtime in general might not be safe. In any other circumstance, this would not be acceptable under any context. But it'll probably happen, and it will be cheered by White Trump supporters, because even though they might suffer, it's okay as long as the immigrant/Black person/Muslim suffers more. And when White workers suffer at the hands of this, Trump and the GOP will further blame this on Obama & minorities, which will cause them to double down even harder.
This is how America works. This is how America HAS worked for a little under two and a half centuries.
To say that racism is just a symptom and not the cause not only ignores the bloody & dark history of America, but it ignores the history of the West in general. This was never about class or economic distress. Because a White man will gladly hand you the last penny out of his piggy bank if it means that I can never get ahead at best, or if I'll be killed or imprisoned at worst.
The longer you continue to lie to yourself and everyone else about what the problem really is, the longer we all continue to suffer for it.
soul creator
Member
The ironic thing is that at least in the US, the best known group of folks that are historically known to throw minorities under the bus...are the Clinton/third way/triangulation/centrist/liberal/moderate wing of the party. Not the communists/socialists/radicals/etc.
But somehow this gets painted as a "hard left" thing (Berniebros!), as if that Mark Lilla guy is some sort of revolutionary socialist, lol.
I think what seems to be happening is that a lot of people have no concept of a "left" that exists outside of Democratic/Republican politics, so the debate is constantly framed between those two segments. If one's entire political imagination is limited to what Democrats and Republicans talk about, I'd think that combining progressive economics and antiracism was impossible too.
kirblar said:
The world has changed due to specific political decisions made by those in power over the past 40+ years (and in the US, a lot of them have been Democrats!). It wasn't just some unavoidable accident of history.
Funky Papa
FUNK-Y-PPA-4
The history of race and worker's rights in America differs quite a bit from that in Europe from the moment slavery didn't quite make it into the equation. They have some things in common, but vastly differ on others. Social dynamics are also different due to mass immigration being a comparatively newer phenomenon. Slavery is one of the things that still define modern America. It's at its heart. This is not the case for Europe, which had to rebuild itself from two world wars in the last century and only experienced mass migration over the last half.
Race as a scapegoat wouldn't be nearly as attractive in Europe under just slightly different circumstances. Spain is proof of that. The country may have issues regarding race, but racist parties have been effectively deactivated by social movements putting the blame of the crisis straight on the elites, nullifying the rise of our own neofascist parties. Portugal is going into the same direction. The rage is still there, slowly bubbling and giving birth to new political parties, but it's being aimed somewhere else. This shows that racism is not at the core, but at the periphery.
TheRagnCajun
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I think its important to make the distinction that 'listening' or 'catering' to white middle class voters doesn't mean validating any bigotry they may have. You should speak to the fears, insecurity and struggles behind it and tell them how you're going to make things better. Hilary's approach to this was to basically say "America already is great" as in: "there is no problem" which did not play out well.
Secondly I think its important to understand that being idealistic doesn't win elections, being strategic does. Minorities are already kind of screwed in a democratic process. By definition the majority wins in democracy (with maybe a 5% discrepancy in popular vote). If you want to protect and help minorities, you have to present a platform and solution that will be accepted by the majority. Some may see that as 'throwing them under the bus' but clinging to an idealism that will be rejected by the majority does no good. By all means, outside of the democratic process you should stick to your ideals, contribute your time and money to helping minorities, do everything you can - because you don't need a vote to make those things happen.
Secondly I think its important to understand that being idealistic doesn't win elections, being strategic does. Minorities are already kind of screwed in a democratic process. By definition the majority wins in democracy (with maybe a 5% discrepancy in popular vote). If you want to protect and help minorities, you have to present a platform and solution that will be accepted by the majority. Some may see that as 'throwing them under the bus' but clinging to an idealism that will be rejected by the majority does no good. By all means, outside of the democratic process you should stick to your ideals, contribute your time and money to helping minorities, do everything you can - because you don't need a vote to make those things happen.
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