• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

Italy proposal to jail vegans who impose diet on children

Status
Not open for further replies.

BajiBoxer

Banned
Seems excessive. There are tons of poor diets children get, why target Vegans specifically?

Is this a common problem, or are Vegans in Italy exceptionally poorly informed about proper Vegan diet?
 
Why exactly? Why does it matter from what source the nutrition is derived from?

You actually think the 'nutrition' you think you're getting from supplements, is even comparable from the real nutrients found in good food?

I personally think this should be applied to parents of children that are obese.
 
This proposal sounds like a publicity stunt. If this lawmaker is so convinced that the state is in a better place to decide how to raise children than parents, why not propose taking all children from their parents and placing them in state-run boarding schools?
 

D i Z

Member
Harsh. I don't see how this would pass or is even necessary with other child safety laws about nutrition in place. Busting up families seems like unnecessary persecution when what these parents need is better education on the value of nutritional supplements. Put that up as a proposition instead.

Edit: People seem to forget that dietary needs aren't a rigid rule for everyone. The argument to apply this to the parents of obese children is obscene, as many children have medical reasons and dispositions that lead to their obesity. A lot of the same logic can be applied to having a child on a vegan diet. Not all of the time, but that's for the parents and family physicians to decide, not lawmakers.
 

sankt-Antonio

:^)--?-<
Why exactly? Why does it matter from what source the nutrition is derived from?

Vegan lifestyle is hard. Its hard for an adult to maintain everything their body needs, when raising a child the vegan parents would have to be dietitians themselves. You would need to count intake of the child, feed it vitamin pills etc.

In a "regular" diet, there is a much slimmer chance of getting your child into some sort of deficit. Feed it a little bit of everything at the child's body will get what it needs.

Like i said imo, I'm biased as one of my friends lived a year as a strict vegan, looked like shit most of the time and felt a lack of energy, he switched to be vegetarian. You could say he ate the wrong stuff, but if he had forced his lifestyle on a child I'm sure it would not have been the wised of ideas.

So if you were deficient in Vitamin C you wouldn't supplement your diet with an orange?

Look at where vitamin B12 is found, hint its in food a vegan is not going to eat.
 

moggio

Banned
Vegan lifestyle is hard.

I mean, it's not really.

In a "regular" diet, there is a much slimmer chance of getting your child into some sort of deficit. Feed it a little bit of everything at the child's body will get what it needs.

Really?

https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2015/feb/10/nutrition-hunger-food-children-vitamins-us

Like i said imo, I'm biased as one of my friends lived a year as a strict vegan, looked like shit most of the time and felt a lack of energy, he switched to be vegetarian. You could say he ate the wrong stuff, but if he had forced his lifestyle on a child I'm sure it would not have been the wised of ideas.

One of my friends is a strict meat eater, looks shit most of the time and lacks energy. You could say he eats the wrong stuff, but if he forced his lifestyle on a child I'm sure it would not be the wised of ideas etc.

Look at where vitamin B12 is found, hint its in food a vegan is not going to eat.

Marmite? An acquired taste, I agree.

Also there are things called "vitamins" these days.
 

Neo C.

Member
Seems excessive. There are tons of poor diets children get, why target Vegans specifically?

Is this a common problem, or are Vegans in Italy exceptionally poorly informed about proper Vegan diet?

Many vegans in other countries are poorly informed too. We have several cases of hospitalized kids in my country, because the parents do a insufficient (unhealthy) vegan diet. While those hospitalized kids are like the worst case scenario, we don't know how many vegan parents have malnourished kids which barely have enough micronutrients to go day by day.

Yes, there are many good informed vegans, as they often are high educated. But we shouldn't dismiss all the illinformed.
 

FStop7

Banned
A little conflicted on this.

On one hand you have the responsible vegan parent that can find all the nutrition from vegan sources

And on the other are the idiots who can't and cause they're children harm.

But there are already laws protecting children from abuse and mistreatment.

Targeting vegans specifically is asinine and ignorant.
 

Pancake Mix

Copied someone else's pancake recipe
You know what...it's hard for children to get the nutrients they need on a vegan diet, it really is. Not impossible, mind you, but imposing a vegetarian diet should really be enough on a growing child. I don't think that is too much to ask.

So not a terrible proposal. You shouldn't do your children harm.
 

Llyranor

Member
But there are already laws protecting children from abuse and mistreatment.

Targeting vegans specifically is asinine and ignorant.

Yep, parental negligence is already a thing. This almost reminds me of transgender bathroom laws misdirection.
 

Lkr

Member
I propose we just jail all vegans

This law is literally unenforceable even if it is passed, but it is creepy. I hope this party doesn't have enough support in the government to pass their agenda
 

sankt-Antonio

:^)--?-<
Again, we give vitamin D to breastfed infants. It's still better than formula milk. The supplementation itself doesn't mean much in terms of diet quality.
Are you still using additional vitamin D, have you taken it for your whole life and will you take it until you die?

Baby's need it because they can't chill in the sun, an adult can. A Vegan will always need additional B12.

I do think there is a difference in the concept of these things.
 
A little conflicted on this.

On one hand you have the responsible vegan parent that can find all the nutrition from vegan sources

And on the other are the idiots who can't and cause they're children harm.


Don't see the connection to veganism here, though.
Harm can be done by all kinds of diets, so why limit this law to bad vegan diets?
 

Pancake Mix

Copied someone else's pancake recipe
Are you still using additional vitamin D, have you taken it for your whole life and will you take it until you die?

Not sure if it's the case in Italy, but people in some countries actually do take vitamin D supplements their entire life in milk. It's a good idea and prevents rickets.
 

Owari

Member
This law isn't singling out vegans. It applies to all parents who don't properly care for their children's nutrition. You can put your kid on a vegan diet as long as you do it right.

But nice clickbait title.
 

Sanctuary

Member
A little conflicted on this.

On one hand you have the responsible vegan parent that can find all the nutrition from vegan sources

And on the other are the idiots who can't and cause they're children harm.

It's almost as though humans didn't exist for thousands of years prior to eating meat. How ever did we survive?

Came to post this

Triggered! But seriously, that would change so much of the status quo of the planet.

Also there are things called "vitamins" these days.

There certainly are. And while some vitamins are better than no vitamins, it's still a lot better to get them through food sources instead of pills.
 

sankt-Antonio

:^)--?-<
Not sure if it's the case in Italy, but people in some countries actually do take vitamin D supplements their entire life in milk. It's a good idea and prevents rickets.

It sure is not in Italy, that would be in sun depraved countries.

Look, what i want to get across here, if your base diet at an optimum requires addition supplements, to me thats a sign that there is not much room for error and not a wide margin of "yeah that'll be good enough for my body".
The more strict you have to be with a diet the easier it is to fall in the "yeah that was not enough XYZ for the day"...
 

Gun Animal

Member
Don't see the connection to veganism here, though.
Harm can be done by all kinds of diets, so why limit this law to bad vegan diets?
because whereas normally malnutrition usually only occurs because of poverty, there's a pattern of totally preventable malnutrition of children in vegan households. When financially well-off parents are hospitalizing their kids over fad diets that's a problem.
 

moggio

Banned
It sure is not in Italy, that would be in sun depraved countries.

Look, what i want to get across here, if your base diet at an optimum requires addition supplements, to me thats a sign that there is not much room for error and not a wide margin of "yeah that'll be good enough for my body".
The more strict you have to be with a diet the easier it is to fall in the "yeah that was not enough XYZ for the day"...

How is a Vegan eating a pill to get their RDA of B12 any more a burden than you eating a steak to get your B12?

I mean, other than your way being massively resource intensive and inefficient?
 

dimb

Bjergsen is the greatest midlane in the world
because whereas normally malnutrition usually only occurs because of poverty, there's a pattern of totally preventable malnutrition of children in vegan households. When financially well-off parents are hospitalizing their kids over fad diets that's a problem.
My favorite fad diets are the ones that date back to ancient Greece.
 

Neo C.

Member
This law isn't singling out vegans. It applies to all parents who don't properly care for their children's nutrition. You can put your kid on a vegan diet as long as you do it right.

But nice clickbait title.

I'm not necessarily for jail time, but parents getting punished for bad diet should be a thing. I don't know about Italy, but in Switzerland the parents face little to no consequences when their child is hospitalized because of bad vegan diet.
 
This is a dumb idea that is literally uninforceable. That said, the idea that a vegan diet is not more difficult than a diet where you can eat w/e the fuck you want is crazy to me. Argue it's manageable, but dont argue it isnt more difficult.
 

Fluvian

Banned
I think this is a bit extreme but as a guy who's worked with a lot of struggling children, the ones I've seen who are malnourished are 50/50 from extremely neglectful parents and from vegan homes (once or twice vegatarians but the parents in both cases were neglectful), I don't think prison sentences should be given unless the kids are underfed and not given all essential nutrients, protein and vitamins.
I personally think raising a child vegan or vegatarian is immoral but if you give them everything they need it should be allowed.
 

sankt-Antonio

:^)--?-<
How is a Vegan eating a pill to get their RDA of B12 any more a burden than you eating a steak to get your B12?

I mean, other than your way being massively resource intensive and inefficient?

On a regular diet i do not have to care about VB12, on a vegan i do?
 

Owari

Member
I'm not necessarily for jail time, but parents getting punished for bad diet should be a thing. I don't know about Italy, but in Switzerland the parents face little to no consequences when their child is hospitalized because of bad vegan diet.
Veganism has nothing to do with the proposed law in Italy. If you're Vegan or not, you have to make sure your kid isn't malnourished. Just like you can't feed him mcdonalds and candy every day instead of food, you can't feed him an improper vegan diet. It makes sense there's laws protecting this.
 
Yeah that's a bit extreme, it really falls into negligence territory. Many of these parents are unaware of the deficiencies of any particular diet, it's not purposeful.
 

Neo C.

Member
Veganism has nothing to do with the proposed law in Italy. If you're Vegan or not, you have to make sure your kid isn't malnourished. Just like you can't feed him mcdonalds and candy every day instead of food, you can't feed him an improper vegan diet. It makes sense there's laws protecting this.

I agree, that's why I wrote "bad diet" and didn't specify it.
 

haimon

Member
Even as a dad, I don't know how I could support one of my kids trying to go vegetarian or vegan. I would not mind if they ate food of their own, but if they tried to take meat from me, I would never accept it.
 

moggio

Banned
On a regular diet i do not have to care about VB12, on a vegan i do?

Do you?

I'd guess the majority of people on a "regular diet" (whatever that is) haven't the foggiest fucking idea what their daily intake of vitamin B12 is or whether it is enough.

I know what mine is.
 

sankt-Antonio

:^)--?-<
Do you?

I'd guess the majority of people on a "regular diet" (whatever that is) haven't the foggiest fucking idea what their daily intake of vitamin B12 is or whether it is enough.

I know what mine is.

The thing is, i don't have to track it to be on the save side, you do (i take it you are a vegan).

edit:
Before you ask, i never tracked it in the last 32 years.
Apparently I'm healthy as can be, given what can be said about the contents of my blood/piss etc.
 

Plinko

Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
How about the parents who feed their kids only hot dogs and chicken nuggets? Are they getting arrested too?

Because, if so, this isn't a terrible idea.
 

Sulik2

Member
Any fad diet that puts children in the hospital because you aren't feeding them properly should have punishment. I'm not sure jail time taking the parents away is best for the kids, but these idiot parents need to be punished for starving their kids because they don't actually know how to a eat balanced vegan diet.
 

Zakalwe

Banned
People saying "wish this was for religion" and meaning it, fucking abysmal intolerance.

Atheism is a belief system too. If you teach your children that it's exactly the same as teaching them a religion.

Feeding your children a Vegan diet is absolutely fine. As long as you feed them properly. Parents failing this would no doubt fail anyway, it isn't difficult to do so they're clearly just not fit to feed their children regardless.

On a regular diet i do not have to care about VB12, on a vegan i do?

You have to care about all the essential vitamins and nutrients. Eating a meat based diet doesn't mean - in any way - that you're more likely to get everything you need in the right quantities.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top Bottom