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[GeorgioCostanzaX]

Is the DSi XL to blame for the current confusion consumers have with the 3DS?

Brand confusion in general is to blame. The 3DS looks like a slight hardware upgrade just like the DSi and DSi XL in the eyes of consumers I've spoken with. Especially when the packaging, displays and hardware itself do no favors in terms of differentiating the product from it's predecessor. Hell even Microsoft and Sony did a better jobs of distinguishing the look of the Slim models of their consoles and yet they are functionally identical.

 

[Futureman]

You know what barely gets talked about, but might be necessary soon?

A Nintendo phone.

I think it's either gonna be that, or next gen, Nintendo will be a one-system company in that their portable device will be able to easily stream to a televsion, so they won't need two different systems.

but in the end, the DS family sold around half a million units in the U.S. alone last month during the slowest retail month of the year. I really don't think Nintendo is in much trouble and things are going to get better for the 3DS at least in the near term w/ the price drop.

 

[FyreWulff]

Now NoA just needs to fix the marketing. People still think it's just a DS with 3D.

Should just do what they did with the GBA when the DS started taking off and just stop shipping the previous consoles right now.

Sony should have done the same thing to the PS2 when the PS3 came out. I can tell you a lot of people thought they were the 'same' console and the PS3 just supported Blu Ray, so they just bought the cheaper Playstation when they walked in.

 

[Emitan]

Shit, he's fucking creepy, I think he might be a good replacement for Ganon though, if he have a descent story. On this I'm pretty sure Nintendo won't fuck this up.

The battle is quite epic too.

Yeah, that was one of the coolest fights I've seen from Zelda, but I don't like the games very much so I'm going to miss out.

 

[J-Rock]

I'd love to know how this is affecting their approach with the Wii-U behind the scenes.

 

[Lord Error]

Vita will likely hit hardships, too. The price may be a steal for gamers, but the system still looks expensive and is going for the same crowd at current PSP owners. No internal memory, the need to buy a memory card for DD, and the size could turn people off from it. Sony can't push the ease of purchasing games via PS Store and DD if you have to buy a, highly likely, overpriced memory card from Sony to even do so.

I think system is cheap compared to just about anything, but yeah, the game prices are the big question. One thing I can say is, I really hope they won't try charging the same amount of money for something like Superstardust as they will for Uncharted. I have a feeling that much like PSP, it will be sold with some smaller memory card pre-packaged, or at least that seems like a sane thing to do. Size I think goes into its favor as it pushes it away from the smartphone comparison, making it as something more clearly distinct. They know people won't be buying it to carry around in the pocket with them at all times, which is a completely unrealistic thing nowadays, and it's designed accordingly.

 

[The Technomancer]

And like AA, 3D is not going to be a defining reason for the mainstream audience to pick up the system.

There's only one reason people pick up a system en masse, and its always been software.

 

[orioto]

No, I completely agree. I'm just using orioto's examples. He doesn't seem to care how that sort of software is unveiled, just Mario and Zelda.

Yeah i remember this talk in my doomed thread.

I'm evil cause i consider thing like wii sport are not as important for gamers as Mario or Zelda. I took those two examples, not because they are the most beloved nintendo franchises, but cause well.. in those two games, you do a lot of things, in term of actions, and that improving the way you play those two games is basically relevant for all games.

Nintendo not being able to really innovate in a Mario, but having other innovations for other types of games is kinda a problem, for me at least. That's my speech about moving forward innovations against moving aside innovations you know. They stopped trying to to better so they now do something else.

Wait. So on one hand, you're frustrated that Nintendo focuses too heavily on its hardware innovation rather than software innovation, then you're frustrated when they don't focus on it too heavily and release an innovative piece of software that doesn't require the hardware innovation.

Hm not really no. The problem is that the wii wasn't designed around Mario, but Wii sport. Actually, Wii sport was built around the wii concept. Mario galaxy was just something they had to do independently from this whole concept.

 

[Somnid]

You know what barely gets talked about, but might be necessary soon?

A Nintendo phone.

I think it's either gonna be that, or next gen, Nintendo will be a one-system company in that their portable device will be able to easily stream to a televsion, so they won't need two different systems.

but in the end, the DS family sold around half a million units in the U.S. alone last month during the slowest retail month of the year. I really don't think Nintendo is in much trouble and things are going to get better for the 3DS at least in the near term w/ the price drop.

A phone is just a data contact. They could release a 3G capable 3DS if it was that big of a deal, just like Vita.

 

[Cygnus X-1]

A bit ironic though. In an age where companies struggle to make profits, does it all come down to a race to 0?

With value and with something other system don't have. That's the only way.

But anyway, let me say this: ignore media's bullshits. Seriously, they all predicted Nintendo would have gone third party back in 2004. They all said that DS was going to fail, that touch screen and double screen were gimmicks. They all stated that Nintendogs was pure craziness and that it would have never worked out. And they said that Wii without HD and Hard-disc was hopeless.

Forget about them with all your might, because they don't understand a shit about that industry. Especially general media who usually write about other things and failed analysis like Pachter.

Strange to say, but Gaffers are much, much more competent usually. Especially mods and many veteran members.

 

[Snakeyes]

Strange to say, but Gaffers are much, much more competent usually. Especially mods and many veteran members.

GAF enthusiasm is inversely proportional to a platform's success.

 

[KAL2006]

The portable market has changed and 3DS and Vita will have a tough time in the current market. Too many people will look at a game like Hot Shots Golf and say "I can buy a gold game on my iOS system of choice for $10, why spend $40 on this?" iOS game pricing has greatly altered the way people view portable gaming pricing and now nothing, not even Uncharted: Golden Abyss, will look like a good deal at $40.

I disagree, of course both Vita and 3DS will lose some of that casual market who originally use to by handhelds for games like Nintendogs, Petz, Cooking Mama, Brain Age, Peggle and etc. But there is still a huge market of gamers who buy handhelds for proper games like Mario, Zelda, Pokemon, Final Fantasy. Layton and etc. If iPhone and iOS has taken of, then why is their still many new buyers for DS, isn't DS still selling incredibly.

 

[Vinci]

Yeah i remember this talk in my doomed thread.

I'm evil cause i consider thing like wii sport are not as important for gamers as Mario or Zelda. I took those two examples, not because they are the most beloved nintendo franchises, but cause well.. in those two games, you do a lot of things, in term of actions, and that improving the way you play those two games is basically relevant for all games.

Seriously, man, the victim act is old. Put it aside. I've never once made a comment suggesting that you were evil. If others have, they were wrong. And Wii Sports was great for gamers. It's helped this industry penetrate the mainstream audience in a way few things have. That's fantastic. Especially if you're me and you want gaming to be more like Japanese manga publishing rather than Hollywood - which might be why I love indie games so much.

Nintendo not being able to really innovate in a Mario, but having other innovations for other types of games is kinda a problem, for me at least. That's my speech about moving forward innovations against moving aside innovations you know. They stopped trying to to better so they now do something else.

And yet Mario Galaxy was an innovative piece of software and the best 3D Mario game they've ever made. Mario Kart Wii was the best Mario Kart and utilized online well, practically a miracle for a Nintendo game. I just don't see basis for the strength of your complaints. You make it sound like they're in some dire trouble when people have been saying that for decades and they always seem to do all right even while making missteps.

 

[GeekyDad]

Let me get this straight, Iwata is hoping people will buy the 3DS purely on the new pricepoint and not because of the software?

If the software was there the price wouldn't have been an issue.

Be sure to only view this from a gamer's standpoint. As a father and a brother of siblings with children who don't know squat about gaming, I can tell you the mainstream audience isn't generally look at it from that perspective. Price point is a HUGE factor; it was a HUGE reason why Wii was so successful. People love a hook, but if it doesn't come with an attractive price, the mainstream loses interest. As far as games go, moms who shop at Walmart shop under the assumption that Nintendo have already taken care of that concern for them. Us gamers bought our 3DSes at launch (again, I'm speaking in general terms). Iwata is referring the audience who will make the system a household name. Big difference, and his point are valid and make perfect sense, to me at least.

 

[orioto]

Seriously, man, the victim act is old. Put it aside. I've never once made a comment suggesting that you were evil. If others have, they were wrong. And Wii Sports was great for gamers. It's helped this industry penetrate the mainstream audience in a way few things have. That's fantastic. Especially if you're me and you want gaming to be more like Japanese manga publishing rather than Hollywood - which might be why I love indie games so much.

I don't get that.. Indy games ? mangas ? mainstream penetration ?

And yet Mario Galaxy was an innovative piece of software and the best 3D Mario game they've ever made. Mario Kart Wii was the best Mario Kart and utilized online well, practically a miracle for a Nintendo game. I just don't see basis for the strength of your complaints. You make it sound like they're in some dire trouble when people have been saying that for decades and they always seem to do all right even while making missteps.

Well... We'll see. If WiiU tanks as badly as 3DS, maybe people will see there is a slight problem in Nintendo's politic. In the end the problem, historically, is not new. Nintendo never really embraced the changes in market after 95. NDS and WII were some kind of miracle but we'll see how they do now...

 

[Cygnus X-1]

I agree with this. Its really quite hard to share the 3ds experience with friends or family. With past handhelds people could look over your shoulder and see the action clearly, with 3d (the prime feature of the handheld) all they see is a blurry mess. Even when I hand my 3ds to people they see the blur first then have to adjust the system in order to see the 3d clearly. In a way the 3ds is antisocial. It does not lend itself to sharing or a social experience at all in the way the ds or any past handheld did. The 3d blurriness and narrow viewing angle alone makes for some very poor first impressions.

I don't know about that. I remember the first Gameboy and the Gameboy color. They had no retro-illumination and without bringing the handheld in your hands, it was impossible to see clearly by people around the dude who was playing. Even during the day. But the handheld worked. Well, there were lot of other reasons of course!

To see 3D effect you need a minimum of patience. 2-3 seconds. Probably Nintendo thought is was an acceptable amount of time to find the right spot. And it is, at least for me. Once it works, it looks great. Just play Ocarina to understand what I mean. It is much more "real" than anything we've seen before.

Problems arise when you're at the store and you look the the handheld. It is true people can be impatient and conclude fast that it doesn't work. But if two-three seconds is too much.....that's sad you know!

 

[Kolgar]

And to the folks asking for Nintendo to make games for Andoid/iOS devices... Do you really think Nintendo is interested in seeing their $25 Mario game bomb with smartphone users who want to spend only 99 cents per game?

 

[Mael]

And yet Mario Galaxy was an innovative piece of software and the best 3D Mario game they've ever made. Mario Kart Wii was the best Mario Kart and utilized online well, practically a miracle for a Nintendo game. I just don't see basis for the strength of your complaints. You make it sound like they're in some dire trouble when people have been saying that for decades and they always seem to do all right even while making missteps.

Actually here I'll disagree greatly, 3DS is not a misstep it's resuming the direction they've wanted to go all along. At least that's what the IA interviews send as messages.
They said it was like the virtual boy and that it was awsome and all other shit that the market didn't buy the 1rst time... And well if it failed it might not have been because of the tech wasn't ready but really because that shit was uninteresting in the 1rst place.
I mean they tried 3D before and have shown no experience worth having with the Virtual Boy, with the 3DS they STILL haven't found the killer app for it, that much is clear.

The WiiU is really Nintendo resuming its direction prior to the Wii, remember the time when Wiimote was not even a rumour or anything? What was the type of controller that people thought Nintendo would come up with? Yep a screen integrated with a GC screen...in short the WiiU controller.

We all know that Wii is basically Nintendo's biggest success this side of the DS. What do they chose to follow up on that? Something that goes totally against it in favour of a Red Ocean nightmare.
It's confounding that the people who were talking about BOS and disruption not 5 years in the past could actually throw the books that put them on top in favour of a strategy that already failed twice.

I don't get that.. Indy games ? mangas ? mainstream penetration ?

You say that while in the country where mangas are probably the most mainstream this side of Japan?

Well... We'll see. If WiiU tanks as badly as 3DS, maybe people will see there is a slight problem in Nintendo's politic. In the end the problem, historically, is not new. Nintendo never really embraced the changes in market after 95. NDS and WII were some kind of miracle but we'll see how they do now...

NDS and Wii were miracles because for once they analysed what the market was and how to grow the market and reacted accordingly instead of doing whatever the fuck they wanted.

 

[Kai Dracon]

This is a humbling moment for Nintendo.

After all the trash talk from Reggie, the egocentric PR and turning their backs on people that put them on the map, this is a huge wake up call. It's an exciting moment to be a Nintendo fan, imo. Yes, I am still a fan but I'm not blind to all their faults. The cash they were raking in in the last few years clouded their judgement. Now, hopefully, we see a Nintendo that goes back to its roots. A Nintendo that thinks twice about the hardware, prices and games they put out rather than feel as though they are entitled to success.

Now, what I'm hoping will happen, but doubt will, is that they go back to the drawing board and revise their strategy for the Wii U. There is so much they can do to make that launch and the console even stronger. For one, I want to see the machine upscale GC games so I don't have to rip ISOs to play on a computer. They need to honor their history. If they can start there, the cash will flow. They should have realized this when we were buying Super Mario Bros 3 port 238623923.

and Reggie really needs to STFU. I do not see the family centric Disney trash talking their competitors as loudly and publicly as this moron does. Show some character, one that does not embody the characteristics of a high school drop-out.

All this is why I said earlier "Reggie has outlived his usefulness as the face of NOA".

When Nintendo brought Reggie on board it was for a valid reason, and he worked. He got tons of attention for Nintendo of America and helped them seem relevant in the west again.

But Reggie seems like a one trick pony, and he cannot talk to gamers - only to the mainstream and mainstream press. Reggie actually makes a good ambassador for gaming to the rest of the world. But he's a terrible choice for Nintendo to get down to business.

It seems poetic that all this comes hot on the heels of the big outcry over Nintendo abandoning their supporters and sending their consoles out to die.

 

[Cygnus X-1]

GAF enthusiasm is inversely proportional to a platform's success.

I'm talking about the logic and the quality of discussions. There is lot of content and experience here. Sure, no-one has the crystal balls and everything can happen.

But did you read some bullshits of general media? "Nintendo lost to Apple." "Nintendo is doomed". "3DS failed". "Nintendo should do games for iOS".

This can be right. It is possible. BUT how did they conclude that? Oh, it's just what everyone say and thus...it has to be right! So pathetic.

 

[FoxSpirit]

At worst I'm expecting GameCube 2.

We got a bunch of really nice games on it, still not regretting. Plus I love the design.
All it needs are more games and I'll bite for the price, 3rd party bomb or not. Ok, it also needs region free. I'm serious Ninty, I want that but as a Euro guy I can hardly justify a locked handheld. Not even for the nice asking price :-\

 

[orioto]

You say that while in the country where mangas are probably the most mainstream this side of Japan?

That wasn't a critic, i honestly don't get what he means

 

[UncleSporky]

From a certain perspective it almost looks like they planned this.

This time around, Sony said "no way, we're not going to be seen as the overpriced competitor this time, we're going to push really hard and match them."

And what does Nintendo do? Go down as far as possible to selling at a slight loss, to a place where Sony absolutely cannot follow. They're already at a loss, a massive loss by some accounts.

And the price comparison is right back to where it was last generation. Ingenious, really.

 

[Mael]

That wasn't a critic, i honestly don't get what he means

I didn't get the indie games reference either because...there's really nothing indie to the whole manga scene (it's really industrial, like video games).
Being in France where the whole country publishing world would kill to have publications sell as much mangas here I, however, see his connection between mangas and mainstream.

 

[Somnid]

All this is why I said earlier "Reggie has outlived his usefulness as the face of NOA".

When Nintendo brought Reggie on board it was for a valid reason, and he worked. He got tons of attention for Nintendo of America and helped them seem relevant in the west again.

But Reggie seems like a one trick pony, and he cannot talk to gamers - only to the mainstream and mainstream press. Reggie actually makes a good ambassador for gaming to the rest of the world. But he's a terrible choice for Nintendo to get down to business.

It seems poetic that all this comes hot on the heels of the big outcry over Nintendo abandoning their supporters and sending their consoles out to die.

The mainstream press is what's important. You think you need a specific PR head to tell you what to think? You wouldn't go for that.

 

[GeekyDad]

From a certain perspective it almost looks like they planned this.

This time around, Sony said "no way, we're not going to be seen as the overpriced competitor this time, we're going to push really hard and match them."

And what does Nintendo do? Go down as far as possible to selling at a slight loss, to a place where Sony absolutely cannot follow. They're already at a loss, a massive loss by some accounts.

And the price comparison is right back to where it was last generation. Ingenious, really.

Not a completely unreasonable theory, but probable? Meh...

I agree, though, setting the $250 price point so that Sony can flaunt Vita at the same price would be a nice dupe by then making such a drastic slash in 3DS price. So yeah, now it will once again look to the average Walmart shopper like 3DS is the more practical route.

 

[Cygnus X-1]

I never liked the line of thinking that essentially suggests "we made a quality product, but the customers were too stupid to appreciate it". Nintendo is an entertainment company. If they put out games that entertain people, they make money. You may think their N64 and GC games were quality, but the majority of the market did not. If you want to say the market has "shit taste", fine. It's completely subjective. But people know what they find entertaining. Apparently, they did not find Nintendo's N64 or GC games entertaining. That's all there is to it.

And the Wii/DS surged because they started releasing games that the market wanted again. They released highly accessible sports games, pick-up-and-play arcade style games, and a ton of 2D games - the exact same types of games they released on the NES, SNES, and GB, which were their most successful systems. I don't think this is all a coincidence.

I don't agree on that dude. N64 had lot of quality games. Just the number of them was too low because the amount of time one had to wait between a big release and another one. N64 and GC did not reach a big audience, because the number of games in their ensemble were appealing only for a limited audience. In other words: more games means more chances to satisfy the tastes of everyone. This doesn't imply unfortunately that a system that wins has better quality games. No, it doesn't! Rather, it imply that a system can satisfy better the audience by the combination of all genres and all titles.

So, N64 and GC failed because they had quality, but not enough amount of titles to reach everyone, whereas PS/PS2 has both quality and quantity.
Of course I'm not including other factors, like price, design, online, etc.

Just to answer you: a bad selling system doesn't necessarily has bad games.

 

[Mael]

I don't agree on that dude. N64 had lot of quality games. Just the number of them was too low because the amount of time one had to wait between a big release and another one. N64 and GC did not reach a big audience, because the number of games in their ensemble were appealing only for a limited audience. In other words: more games means more chances to satisfy the tastes of everyone. This doesn't imply unfortunately that a system that wins has better quality games. No, it doesn't! Rather, it imply that a system can satisfy better the audience by the combination of all genres and all titles.

So, N64 and GC failed because they had quality, but not enough amount of titles to reach everyone, whereas PS/PS2 has both quality and quantity.
Of course I'm not including other factors, like price, design, online, etc.

Just to answer you: a bad selling system doesn't necessarily has bad games.

And then Wii enters the pictures and your analysis falls apart.

 

[Jim E. Rossler]

N64 failed because it was less than a dollar to print a game on ps1, while exponentially higher on n64, as well as much exponentially smaller sizes for the games, and nintendo taking a bigger cut of the games profits compared to sony.

 

[Cygnus X-1]

And then Wii enters the pictures and your analysis falls apart.

Every console has its story. Generalization of every system is not much logic.

Wii's success is primary due to its innovative nature. The system at launch did have a new interface and thus a new gameplay, and the right software to use it: Wii Sports. It was easy, immediate, straightforward for everyone. And multiplayer.
The system then continued its success on a double basis: games for the casual market, like Wii Fit or Wii Play or Just Dance and games loved by the hardcore, but that can also appeal to everyone.
And that's the key point: in the end, which hardcore-only games really succeeded? Not so many, right? And make no mistakes: Mario is not hardcore. Mario never was just a franchise for gamers only. Otherwise its so-wide success would never be explainable. Especially 2D Mario, which are easy and cans satisfy gamers and not.
The trick of the Wii was to open a new world to the casual market with certain games and then these people, after playing these new IPs could have been interested in other games that appeal both gamers and non-gamers. It is this hybrid combination that made the console successful.

 

[Mrbob]

Iwata made a good first step at recognizing some 3DS issues and addressing them. However I don't think he addressed them all. See below.

People have to remember that gamers on GAF are different than the majority of people who own a DS. Kids don't pass on the 3DS because of the lack of RPG's or certain 3rd party games. They pass on it because their parents see the price tag. The lower price + Mario + good advertising would make the 3DS boom.

EDIT: Loving all the Ghirahim avatars in here.

It is going to help, but software price is way too high. Nintendo may deny it. They may try to hold on but they are fighting a losing battle. When they decided to price a 5 dollar digital game like Steel Diver for 40 bucks at retail red flags need to pop up.

I expect there to be an increase in hardware sales, and big brand Nintendo software will sell. However beyond this is there really any expectation for success? 3rd parties are bailing out. Parents will go spend 200 dollars for their kids on an ipod touch instead, and are able to download games for 99 cents or even no money. 3DS hardware plus one game is already more expensive.

I still think there is room for a 40 dollar portable game, but it needs to be the blockbuster type. Nintendo needs to learn price scalability and fast.

Retail is not the future for portable devices. Digital is and it is already here. Nintendo is throwing away a ton of potential money by not embracing it properly. This is more important aspect to embrace than 3D, a feature the general public has shown they don't care about in any media.

 

[kame-sennin]

Brand confusion in general is to blame. The 3DS looks like a slight hardware upgrade just like the DSi and DSi XL in the eyes of consumers I've spoken with. Especially when the packaging, displays and hardware itself do no favors in terms of differentiating the product from it's predecessor. Hell even Microsoft and Sony did a better jobs of distinguishing the look of the Slim models of their consoles and yet they are functionally identical.

If people wanted the software, they would find out at the check-out counter that it required new hardware, ending the brand confusion.

If people wanted the software, positive word of mouth would spread about 3DS, ending the brand confusion.

Nintendo can not market their way out of this sales ditch.

 

[Ardenyal]

wrong thread... nvm

 

[radioheadrule83]

PS2 did so well because it had what Iwata referred to in his explanation today -- momentum. Momentum driven by hype. It was a DVD player, it had Toy Story graphics, it was like "jacking into the Matrix". It was the successor to PlayStation, it was going to have new Final Fantasy, Gran Turismo, Metal Gear etc. Dreamcast was dying and other competitors didn't arrive until late in 2001. PS2 had a high quantity of quality games, yes, but to my mind - Sony didn't do anything special to make it warrant or deserve the lead it had over Xbox and Gamecube. I don't necessarily think the Wii deserved its astronomical lead this generation either -- but Nintendo caught the public imagination with Wii, caught the public's attention with the name and the brand, and aroused interest with the lifestyle ads. They found the momentum to be successful.

Iwata is right that it is going to take a lot of effort to restore hype and momentum to 3DS. I'm glad that he recognises that. He's done a lot to make it more attractive in stores, I just hope that they are also talking a lot with publishers to ensure that some good announcements flow too... on the third party side, the last few weeks have been broadly negative for 3DS. It's a great system, so Nintendo need to make sure it gets the support it deserves. They're still out now, while Vita isn't, so all is not lost.

 

[kame-sennin]

Problems arise when you're at the store and you look the the handheld. It is true people can be impatient and conclude fast that it doesn't work. But if two-three seconds is too much.....that's sad you know!

Sad for fucking who? Why do I need to be patient when trying out an expensive entertainment product? I'm not watching a policy speech, I'm shopping for electronic toys at Best Buy. And I'm the one giving them my money, it's their job to make the appeal clear at a glance.

 

[dc89]

Meh.

It just needs it's big titles to come out and then throw a Pokemon game in to the mix and it's ok.

Advance Wars 3DS. Yes Please.
Final Fantasy of some sort. Yes please.
Animal Crossing 3DS. Yes please.

3DS will be fine.

 

[hoos30]

Blue Ocean. Heh.

 

[Version 3.0]

I never liked the line of thinking that essentially suggests "we made a quality product, but the customers were too stupid to appreciate it". Nintendo is an entertainment company. If they put out games that entertain people, they make money. You may think their N64 and GC games were quality, but the majority of the market did not. If you want to say the market has "shit taste", fine. It's completely subjective. But people know what they find entertaining. Apparently, they did not find Nintendo's N64 or GC games entertaining. That's all there is to it.

And the Wii/DS surged because they started releasing games that the market wanted again. They released highly accessible sports games, pick-up-and-play arcade style games, and a ton of 2D games - the exact same types of games they released on the NES, SNES, and GB, which were their most successful systems. I don't think this is all a coincidence.

I don't think you're appreciating the difference between "good" and "novel". I never said the market has "shit taste", and I wasn't implying that it does. A game can be both good and novel. But let's not kid ourselves that Wii Sports made the Wii into a huge success because it's good. It IS good (in my opinion), but that's not why it sold so well. It sold so well primarily because it was new to so many people.
So what I'm saying is that Nintendo is now too focused on replicating that novelty-based success. It was clearly a much better short-term strategy than their old "quality games" philosophy. Whether it's a better long-term one is obviously questionable at this point.

 

[Cygnus X-1]

Sad for fucking who? Why do I need to be patient when trying out an expensive entertainment product? I'm not watching a policy speech, I'm shopping for electronic toys at Best Buy. And I'm the one giving them my money, it's their job to make the appeal clear at a glance.

Dude calm down. I was just saying that 2-3 seconds is a very short amount of time. They probably supposed people would have looked at the system for that time. Exactly like you probably do with every other product: you just take your time and see if you like it or not. Or do you usually buy something just after a simple glance on it of 1 second?

 

[pestul]

I think corporate in Japan have been the problem lately. I don't believe there's much Reggie could do one way or another.

 

[Mael]

Every console has its story. Generalization of every system is not much logic.

Wii's success is primary due to its innovative nature. The system at launch did have a new interface and thus a new gameplay, and the right software to use it: Wii Sports. It was easy, immediate, straightforward for everyone. And multiplayer.
The system then continued its success on a double basis: games for the casual market, like Wii Fit or Wii Play or Just Dance and games loved by the hardcore, but that can also appeal to everyone.
And that's the key point: in the end, which hardcore-only games really succeeded? Not so many, right? And make no mistakes: Mario is not hardcore. Mario never was just a franchise for gamers only. Otherwise its so-wide success would never be explainable. Especially 2D Mario, which are easy and cans satisfy gamers and not.
The trick of the Wii was to open a new world to the casual market with certain games and then these people, after playing these new IPs could have been interested in other games that appeal both gamers and non-gamers. It is this hybrid combination that made the console successful.

WiiSport is nothing very creative, it's just the first game to provide a sports experience that's close to what is being done. It's appeal is immediate and clear.
2D Mario is similar in that it's really nothing creative and clearly appealing.
N64 and GC didn't have that and failed as a result.
Wii didn't have that much software compared to its competitor but its appeal was really clearer.

And kame sennin is more right than you would believe.
If Nintendo published the right software people would be running to stores giving them their money. I've seen that actually during the Wii mania, a friend was working at a game shop and the guy was absolutely pissed off having to tell customers that the products they saw on tv and wanted to buy ASAP was not there because Nintendo didn't send enough copy.
It was C R A Z Y, compare the whole NSMB mania (a game still 40€ new, yep that's more expensive than Killzone3 now) to what they have on 3DS now. It's laughable, no way the people that bought a DS to get Mario Kart, Pokemon or NSMB would be coming back to get the thing with the reputation to damage the eyes.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

One of the biggest things keeping me away from the system aside from lack of games, really.

Yep, the region locking is what prevented me from getting it day-one. I'll probably pick up a Japanese unit now, though, and maybe a US unit down the road if meaningful western titles are ever released.

 

[Mael]

I don't think you're appreciating the difference between "good" and "novel". I never said the market has "shit taste", and I wasn't implying that it does. A game can be both good and novel. But let's not kid ourselves that Wii Sports made the Wii into a huge success because it's good. It IS good (in my opinion), but that's not why it sold so well. It sold so well primarily because it was new to so many people.
So what I'm saying is that Nintendo is now too focused on replicating that novelty-based success. It was clearly a much better short-term strategy than their old "quality games" philosophy. Whether it's a better long-term one is obviously questionable at this point.

You'll have to explain to me what was so novel about NSMB or Mario Kart DS though or even what novelty there was in exercising and weighing oneself.
Seriously people play Tennis and they like it, for some reason a game that can accurately replicate the experience is something they like too...
Heck let's not act like Sports games were never popular on console either.

 

[Cygnus X-1]

Animal Crossing 3DS. Yes please.

For example, Animal Crossing has a chance to evolve to a point in which is can be a great competitor of games made by Zynga. Till now Nintendo just kept making remakes of the original Animal Forest on GC and that's pathetic. I'm glad that Go to the City failed to sell as well as Wild World, so that this will force Konno to make a much more elaborated sequel with more added value.
Still skeptical though...

 

[GrotesqueBeauty]

I like that he apologizes for damaging gamers' trust. Marking up the price hugely based on little more than positive audience reactions at E3 is what damaged my trust, along with the obstinate resistance towards making timely adjustments with the Wii and its software. The decision to bring the 3DS price in line with market realities however instills the most trust I've had in Nintendo since early media of Galaxy was released.

I keep repeating myself on this point, but I really hope that this new willingness to play ball carries over into their Wii U plans.

 

[Emitan]

I just realized how Street Pass and Spot Pass would improve Animal Crossing. I don't enjoy the games at all, but it would be cool for your friends to be able to send you gifts or do something in your town without you being present.

 

[Mael]

Dude calm down. I was just saying that 2-3 seconds is a very short amount of time. They probably supposed people would have looked at the system for that time. Exactly like you probably do with every other product: you just take your time and see if you like it or not. Or do you usually buy something just after a simple glance on it of 1 second?

that can happen if it's THAT appealing, and that was what was happening with the DS and Wii actually.

And Animal Crossing is using the template of that n64 Doobutsu no mori game that never went out of Japan.

 

[AbsoluteZero]

I didn't realize people imported DS games so much.

I bought two for my original DS, Ouendan & Jump Super Stars. Ouendan was fantastic (And I want to pick up the sequel someday) but the moonspeak in JSS just baffled the hell out of me and I didn't keep it much longer than 6 months or so.

 

[kame-sennin]

I don't agree on that dude. N64 had lot of quality games. Just the number of them was too low because the amount of time one had to wait between a big release and another one. N64 and GC did not reach a big audience, because the number of games in their ensemble were appealing only for a limited audience. In other words: more games means more chances to satisfy the tastes of everyone. This doesn't imply unfortunately that a system that wins has better quality games. No, it doesn't! Rather, it imply that a system can satisfy better the audience by the combination of all genres and all titles.

So, N64 and GC failed because they had quality, but not enough amount of titles to reach everyone, whereas PS/PS2 has both quality and quantity.
Of course I'm not including other factors, like price, design, online, etc.

Just to answer you: a bad selling system doesn't necessarily has bad games.

In my post, I quickly stated that "quality" is subjective, at least in the way that it's primarily used on gaf. So I did not say that "a system that wins has better quality games". What I in fact said was that the system that wins has games the market wants to play. If you don't think they're quality, like I said before, fine by me. I didn't like the PS2 library (the headline games, mostly), but it sure as hell entertained millions of people. I can't discount that. It's empirical fact.

Getting to the heart of your argument, as Mael said, the Wii completely invalidates everything you've said. The Wii's market history makes your entire post self-evidently false. The Wii eclipsed the entire GC userbase in record time on the back of Wii Sports alone. And only a handful of games were necessary for the Wii to nearly triple the sales of the N64. So the reality is that the market looked at the Wii lineup (Wii Sports, Wii Play, Wii Fit, Mario Kart) and they looked at the N64 lineup (Mario 64, Starfox, Ocarina of Time), and millions of them decided that they wanted what the Wii had to offer. Was the N64 software library of a higher quality? Maybe you feel it was. But the market rejected it, and that's what matters to Nintendo's bottom line.

 

[Sadist]

I didn't realize people imported DS games so much.

This is a videogame forum offcourse.

I like his honesty though. I'm extremely curious at what Nintendo's doing internaly right now.