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James Webb space telescope (JWST) launch scheduled for 24th of December.

Will JWST successfully deploy in space?

  • Yes. Good chance it goes well.

    Votes: 123 74.1%
  • No. I think something will fail. (no way to fix)

    Votes: 11 6.6%
  • Shepard.

    Votes: 32 19.3%

  • Total voters
    166
  • Poll closed .
Luvoir won't happen as the Carl Sagan Space telescope took it's place.
It's gonna be smaller and cheaper to produce.
Luvoir won't happen?!

Bruh, Luvoir is one of the 4 Decadal Survey Mission Concept Studies along with the Origins Space Telescope (OST), Habitable Exoplanet Observatory (HABEX) and Lynx X-Ray Observatory to be approved by Nasa. What are you talking about? It's literally meant to be the successor to James Webb and it also essentially building on from the technology used in Webb.

Luvoir, HabEx, Lynx and OST are the four next gen telescope concept studies Nasa has to decide on developing in the next decade.
 

Coolwhhip

Neophyte
Looking forward equally to the data and images this will bring us, and the existential dread that will occur in millions of people who really have no idea how large, magnificent, terrifying and incomprehensible the universe truly is.

What kind of images will it bring? It's an infrared telescope right?
 

FunkMiller

Gold Member
What kind of images will it bring? It's an infrared telescope right?

Yep. It'll provide imagery of infrared light, and the red shift present in celestial bodies to a greater and more accurate degree than ever before. It'll have much better resolution than the current telescopes we have. Generally these images are then extrapolated into pictures using the whole colour spectrum - the kind we tend to look at, like the famous ones like the horsehead nebula.
 

greyshark

Member
Thanks. Apparently it's going to orbit a Lagrange point, but how do you orbit something that isn't a body?

Here’s a good breakdown of the L2 point and why they picked it:


What Is L2?​

Joseph-Louis Lagrange was an 18th century mathematician who found the solution to what is called the “three-body problem.” That is, is there any stable configuration, in which three bodies could orbit each other, yet stay in the same position relative to each other? As it turns out, there are five solutions to this problem - and they are called the five Lagrange points, after their discoverer. At Lagrange points, the gravitational pull of two large masses precisely equals the centripetal force required for a small object to move with them. The L1, L2, and L3 points are all in line with each other - and L4 and L5 are at the points of equilateral triangles.
 

Coolwhhip

Neophyte
Just watched a video about it and a scientist that works on Webb said it's not a life seeking telescope. And that a planned next telescope will be. She also said people in high school now will live to see that next telescope. Well, that sucks...
 

Buggy Loop

Member
Thanks. Apparently it's going to orbit a Lagrange point, but how do you orbit something that isn't a body?

It’s actually using two bodies, the sun and earth in this case, to be much more stable. There’s points in space where the pull from both bodies kind of cancel out each other’s, combined with centrifugal forces. It’s like having a big and small draining hole in a body of water and finding a place where you could drop a leaf for it to stay stationary as long as possible (thus low amounts of fuel required for corrections)

physical-mathematics-points-7-214-g002.png
 
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The JWST is likely responsible for more deaths of NASA personnel than anything else, given how much stress and anxiety it's caused. Lol

On a serious note though. It's absolutely imperative that the JWST launch and orbit be successful. Looking at the bigger picture (pun intended). Whatever images it brings us, and whatever mysteries it helps solve is completely secondary in importance.

Of course it's success is important because if all goes to plan, it will definitely allow us a glimpse to see things that up until now just hasn't been possible. But.... and it's a big but to be sure. What's not often considered are the repercussions of it's time and cost overruns.

Sure it's well known that the JWST has had numerous delays and cost increases. What's not often talked about though are the effects of that. For instance, while much of the initial planning and such took place well before. Funding for Hubble started flowing in 1977. By 1981 the mirror was completed, with the rest being ready by late 1985. From funding to finished took roughly 8 years, and had it not been for the Challenger disaster, Hubble would've launched in 1986 as originally scheduled instead of 1990.

Approved in 1996, JWST was supposed to originally take even less time than Hubble to build and launch. However, it wasn't long before NASA determined that it would launch sometime in 2007. Well... we see how that went. When you consider that, along with just how ridiculously overpriced it ended up being. The JWST isn't near as impressive as many think. At least not positively.

Excluding outside factors. Hubble was ready to go in ten years, and despite it's initial problems... Has provided us with a steady stream of amazing images for almost 30 years now. JWST on the other hand has taken 25 years. Initially expected to cost somewhere around $500 million, that estimate quickly doubled to $1 billion shortly after. Now 25 years later and we're at a minimum expected cost of $10 billion.

it's likely some of you are asking yourselves "Why are you shitting on the JWST man?" and that's perfectly understandable. So let me explain just how bad the JWST has fucked us... All of us.

At it's core, the JWST is telescope designed in 1996, via 1996 tech, with 1996 goals in mind. Sure it's had some upgrades and improvements, but it's 1996 at a fundamental level. There wouldn't be anything inherently wrong with that had it launched sometime around 2007. Even if outside factors had delayed it to 2012 or so, it wouldn't have been too bad. Of course that would've still been over a decade ago, and that is definitely a problem. Just looking at the timetables alone. What should've been a schedule that looked something like this,
Hubble from start to launch. 1977-1990
Hubble Primary operations 1990-2005
JWST from start to launch 1996-2007
JWST primary operations 2007-2017
Next major project start to launch 2014-202?

ended up being anything but. As we all know, this telescope can't be repaired or updated the way Hubble could. Which makes it look even worse. At this moment, we should be getting excited about the future launch of a cutting edge telescope. It should just be whatever telescope was set to launch after the JWST. As time, discoveries, science, and our understanding of things progresses. Our single greatest tools have not. Not since 1990 anyway. The JWST's ridiculous delays have literally cost us an entire generation of our greatest observation tools.

Anyone knowledgeable about business will tell you that, throwing money at budget overrun problems is a fools errand. It's been proven to be unprofitable, and can potentially cripple your business. But politicians aren't businessmen, and it isn't their money. But that doesn't mean the consequences are entirely lost on them either though.

So where does that leave us? Well, at the edge of a cliff really. Sure our fabricated wings are plated in gold, and have been checked numerous times, but they're unnecessarily complex, and prohibitively expensive. We hope to fly, and can't afford to fall. There's a line forming behind us of other's who are hoping that we'll fall, and that they will fly. As we take that final step up to the ledge, and prepare to launch... Don't let it be lost on you that while the JWST has already cost us an entire generation of would be telescope of one form or another... But should this thing not go almost perfect, that our government will likely refuse to fund another one for the foreseeable future. Costing us yet another generation of universe observation tools. Not to mention the possible effects it would have on an ever diminishing NASA as a whole.

In regards to space, and our understanding of it. If this thing is a success, we could potentially gain a lot. If it fails however, it likely costs everyone over the age of 30 everything. Impressive as it is, the JWST is a clusterfuck of monumental proportions. We've backed ourselves into a corner where the risks outweigh the rewards tenfold.
 

greyshark

Member
T-Minus 10hrs.

Please let it all go well.

Pushed back to Christmas Day due to weather.


EDIT: There's a bunch of places where they will be live streaming the launch, here's the YouTube link:

 
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Tams

Gold Member
The JWST is likely responsible for more deaths of NASA personnel than anything else, given how much stress and anxiety it's caused. Lol

On a serious note though. It's absolutely imperative that the JWST launch and orbit be successful. Looking at the bigger picture (pun intended). Whatever images it brings us, and whatever mysteries it helps solve is completely secondary in importance.

Of course it's success is important because if all goes to plan, it will definitely allow us a glimpse to see things that up until now just hasn't been possible. But.... and it's a big but to be sure. What's not often considered are the repercussions of it's time and cost overruns.

Sure it's well known that the JWST has had numerous delays and cost increases. What's not often talked about though are the effects of that. For instance, while much of the initial planning and such took place well before. Funding for Hubble started flowing in 1977. By 1981 the mirror was completed, with the rest being ready by late 1985. From funding to finished took roughly 8 years, and had it not been for the Challenger disaster, Hubble would've launched in 1986 as originally scheduled instead of 1990.

Approved in 1996, JWST was supposed to originally take even less time than Hubble to build and launch. However, it wasn't long before NASA determined that it would launch sometime in 2007. Well... we see how that went. When you consider that, along with just how ridiculously overpriced it ended up being. The JWST isn't near as impressive as many think. At least not positively.

Excluding outside factors. Hubble was ready to go in ten years, and despite it's initial problems... Has provided us with a steady stream of amazing images for almost 30 years now. JWST on the other hand has taken 25 years. Initially expected to cost somewhere around $500 million, that estimate quickly doubled to $1 billion shortly after. Now 25 years later and we're at a minimum expected cost of $10 billion.

it's likely some of you are asking yourselves "Why are you shitting on the JWST man?" and that's perfectly understandable. So let me explain just how bad the JWST has fucked us... All of us.

At it's core, the JWST is telescope designed in 1996, via 1996 tech, with 1996 goals in mind. Sure it's had some upgrades and improvements, but it's 1996 at a fundamental level. There wouldn't be anything inherently wrong with that had it launched sometime around 2007. Even if outside factors had delayed it to 2012 or so, it wouldn't have been too bad. Of course that would've still been over a decade ago, and that is definitely a problem. Just looking at the timetables alone. What should've been a schedule that looked something like this,
Hubble from start to launch. 1977-1990
Hubble Primary operations 1990-2005
JWST from start to launch 1996-2007
JWST primary operations 2007-2017
Next major project start to launch 2014-202?

ended up being anything but. As we all know, this telescope can't be repaired or updated the way Hubble could. Which makes it look even worse. At this moment, we should be getting excited about the future launch of a cutting edge telescope. It should just be whatever telescope was set to launch after the JWST. As time, discoveries, science, and our understanding of things progresses. Our single greatest tools have not. Not since 1990 anyway. The JWST's ridiculous delays have literally cost us an entire generation of our greatest observation tools.

Anyone knowledgeable about business will tell you that, throwing money at budget overrun problems is a fools errand. It's been proven to be unprofitable, and can potentially cripple your business. But politicians aren't businessmen, and it isn't their money. But that doesn't mean the consequences are entirely lost on them either though.

So where does that leave us? Well, at the edge of a cliff really. Sure our fabricated wings are plated in gold, and have been checked numerous times, but they're unnecessarily complex, and prohibitively expensive. We hope to fly, and can't afford to fall. There's a line forming behind us of other's who are hoping that we'll fall, and that they will fly. As we take that final step up to the ledge, and prepare to launch... Don't let it be lost on you that while the JWST has already cost us an entire generation of would be telescope of one form or another... But should this thing not go almost perfect, that our government will likely refuse to fund another one for the foreseeable future. Costing us yet another generation of universe observation tools. Not to mention the possible effects it would have on an ever diminishing NASA as a whole.

In regards to space, and our understanding of it. If this thing is a success, we could potentially gain a lot. If it fails however, it likely costs everyone over the age of 30 everything. Impressive as it is, the JWST is a clusterfuck of monumental proportions. We've backed ourselves into a corner where the risks outweigh the rewards tenfold.
Something tells me that you are far too invested in space telescopes.

Yes, it's a mess. But it is what it is. And you don't seem to have taken into account that it is a lot more complex than any space telescope ever built. In some ways it probably needn't have been so complex, but some may just have been unavoidable.

Further, that no one else has bothered or managed to launch even one space telescope suggests that it just ain't that easy.
 

Pagusas

Elden Member
You’d think with something like this they’d build 2 twin telescopes, in case something goes wrong with the first launch. If something does go wrong its going to take forever to get the manufacturing of its components up and running and build a new one, for likely way more than the first cost.
 

Pegasus Actual

Gold Member
Putin's going to blow it up with one of his satellite busters innit, hence the recent test that sent the ISS astronauts into the panic room.

Either that or the aliens are shooting it down.

I'll be watching and cheering for it to make L2 and successfully deploy though. Have to be up 4am on the west coast to catch the launch though, ain't that a bitch.
 
It's hard to believe this day has finally come. The launch and deployment footage will be both amazing and terrifying until it's confirmed operational.
 

nightmare-slain

Gold Member
You’d think with something like this they’d build 2 twin telescopes, in case something goes wrong with the first launch. If something does go wrong its going to take forever to get the manufacturing of its components up and running and build a new one, for likely way more than the first cost.
it's taken them this long to get 1 ready and you wanted them to make 2? lol
 

6502

Member
it's taken them this long to get 1 ready and you wanted them to make 2? lol
I thought they did with curiosity etc for that reason.

If one blows up on route you have another ready to go (no point keeping a reference model if the primary model is gone). If all goes well you have a model to test any updates or help diagnose issues etc.
 
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FunkMiller

Gold Member
Imagine if the rocket explodes after launch.

Sadly, there are dull, stupid and small people in this world that would probably cheer that. But luckily there are not many of them.

The rest of us all have nervous fingers crossed for something that can vastly improve our understanding of the universe, and advance the knowledge of the human race.
 
Anybody else watching the live stream. So happy this is on Christmas day. I've been waiting for this launch for years, so this is a perfect Christmas present.

Fingers crossed it all goes well.
Bro I've been glued to the stream and other videos for the past few hours.
It's amazing. I'm so happy right now.
This is the best Xmas present ever and my partner is watching with me.
Webb us going to rewrite the books
 
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