JANUARY 2005 HARDWARE NUMBERS THREAD [Jesus have mercy]

Andy787 said:
Saying that the PS2 is better than the Xbox or GC doesn't mean the Xbox and GC aren't great consoles themselves. Because they are, and I love both of em. They just aren't nearly as good as the PS2, imo.
Click to expand...



Well the consoles are better than the PS2 by a mile. Reliability, hardware, any way you slice it.

The PS2's 213873011907132132 games is what makes it such a favorite. But I think that among the Cube and Xbox, there are premium and even genre-leading titles in many of the best genres. Like FPS, sports, action/adventure, stealth, racing, and even a few superb RPG's.

Again, I don't own a PS2 so I can't judge its library. But it's hard to imagine that the system is better than the Xbox and Gamecube combined when those two systems have so many excellent games.
 
Amused_To_Death said:
To put things in perspective and really understand this PS2 shortage problem, look at this:

Last year two months frame: Dec2003+Jan2004 (1,940,000+338,000) = 2,278,000

This year: Dec2004+Jan2005 (993,000+488,000) = 1,481,000

A drop of 35%!
Click to expand...

It get's much worse if you show 2002. ( Dec-02 2,733,000 + Jan-03 448,000 )

That was what this holiday could have been. It was the first holiday season at $149 and Sony squandered it. The interesting thing will be if they can recapture those lost sales.
 
Speevy said:
PS2 owners will buy Madden over almost any PS2 exclusive, any day of the week.
Click to expand...
I doubt the total NA sales of any given PS2 Madden release amount to anymore than 20-30% of the NA PS2 userbase, at best. That leaves 70-80% of the userbase buying something else. Unless you can show that the significant majority of the NA PS2 userbase is buying Madden, your observation is simply incorrect. Madden sells well, but it doesn't sell to the majority of PS2 owners.
 
Speevy said:
Well the consoles are better than the PS2 by a mile. Reliability, hardware, any way you slice it.

The PS2's 213873011907132132 games is what makes it such a favorite. But I think that among the Cube and Xbox, there are premium and even genre-leading titles in many of the best genres. Like FPS, sports, action/adventure, stealth, racing, and even a few superb RPG's.

Again, I don't own a PS2 so I can't judge its library.
Click to expand...

And that's where you should stop. Jak 3 and R&C 3 are both selling faster than the previous installments in their respective multi-million selling series', BTW.
 
Speevy said:
Again, I don't own a PS2 so I can't judge its library. But it's hard to imagine that the system is better than the Xbox and Gamecube combined when those two systems have so many excellent games.
Click to expand...

:lol :lol

So, you don't own it and admit you can judge it and then you continue with the mindless drivel in the next sentence. I'm sorry, I just can't reconcile those two sentences.

Both Xbox and GC, have great libraries. So does the PS2. However, looking at the library top to bottom, it's not even a contest. Especially for the GC.
 
Speevy said:
But I think that among the Cube and Xbox, there are premium and even genre-leading titles in many of the best genres. Like FPS, sports, action/adventure, stealth, racing, and even a few superb RPG's.
Click to expand...

Ok..... but...

Again, I don't own a PS2 so I can't judge its library.
Click to expand...

Well then... kinda gives you a skewed perspective to be able to judge across the genre's dontchathink?
 
sonycowboy said:
I think you're confused. PS2 exclusives listed above are selling. Quite well (Shadow Hearts excepted). Are you saying that they aren't selling multimillions? That's true. So what? They're still selling extremely well and the competition on the PS2 side is absolutely brutal, especially considering the huge "casual" base and the over 500 titles that retail for less than $20 nowadays.

But have you seen the million sellers lists (or even the over 500K lists) I post? They are completely one-sided to the PS2.

I see the argument you're trying to make, but it's completely wrong.
Click to expand...




Did you see the thread I made? I think you posted in it, calling me a jackass and such.

http://forums.gaming-age.com/showthread.php?t=32088&highlight=500K


There's the thread you're referring to. Show me the mountain of PS2 exclusives that never made any appearances on othe rplatform.

This is my argument. PS2 exclusives don't sell as well as PS2 multiplatform games. That's true most of the time. Relative to the two other systems as a point of reference, there's no way you can disprove this.
 
sonycowboy said:
:lol :lol

So, you don't own it and admit you can judge it and then you continue with the mindless drivel in the next sentence. I'm sorry, I just can't reconcile those two sentences.

Both Xbox and GC, have great libraries. So does the PS2. However, looking at the library top to bottom, it's not even a contest. Especially for the GC.
Click to expand...



The Gamecube doesn't have enough games to compete with anything. The Gamecube and Xbox combined (which is what Andy said) have quite a few bases covered, even some that the PS2 is lacking.
 
Speevy said:
The Gamecube doesn't have enough games to compete with anything. The Gamecube and Xbox combined (which is what Andy said) have quite a few bases covered, even some that the PS2 is lacking.
Click to expand...

Sounds like you are trying to convince yourself it was the right choice to not get a PS2. :lol
 
This is unbelievable! :lol

Can't wait for the Sony E3 conference!
The oldest console of the three and still selling like it's new! :lol

And what will happen as the PSP will be released? I think it will be really over for Nintendo.
 
Show me where I'm slamming a console I don't own. All I said was that the Xbox and Gamecube have a lot of premium titles in some top genres. I'm not mistaken.
 
Razoric said:
Sounds like you are trying to convince yourself it was the right choice to not get a PS2. :lol
Click to expand...
:lol

Also: in this thread and in others, open_mouth is starting to look more and more like the Xbot equivilant of Gahiggidy, only minus the hilarious self-parody.

Also: HANDHELD NUMBERS PLZ
 
CloudNL said:
This is unbelievable! :lol

Can't wait for the Sony E3 conference!
The oldest console of the three and still selling like it's new! :lol

And what will happen as the PSP will be released? I think it will be really over for Nintendo.
Click to expand...

Daily Doom Prediction for Nintendo: Check

Geez guys, it's 4:16pm here, YOU'RE GETTING SLACK!
 
Razoric said:
Sounds like you are trying to convince yourself it was the right choice to not get a PS2. :lol
Click to expand...


Priorities. When I finally had an Xbox and a Gamecube (November 2002), there really wasn't a PS2 game that blew me away anyway. I will get it eventually, and I'll have a whole library to try out.
 
Speevy said:
This is my argument. PS2 exclusives don't sell as well as PS2 multiplatform games. That's true most of the time. Relative to the two other systems as a point of reference, there's no way you can disprove this.
Click to expand...

I'm sorry, do you mean other than these ones? :lol Show me all the Xbox and GC million seller exclusives.

And don't give me the crap about GTA not being a "valid" exlclusive. The LIONS share of all 3 titles were purchased when they were EXCLUSIVELY PS2 EXCLUSIVES.


PS2 GRAND THEFT AUTO:VICE ROCKSTAR GAMES (TAKE 2) 2-Oct 6,470,480
PS2 GRAND THEFT AUTO 3 ROCKSTAR GAMES (TAKE 2) 1-Oct 5,513,135
PS2 GRAND THEFT: ANDREAS ROCKSTAR GAMES (TAKE 2) 4-Nov 5,144,214
PS2 GRAN TURISMO 3:A-SPEC SONY COMPUTER ENT. (SONY) 1-Jul 3,657,529
PS2 KINGDOM HEARTS SQUARE EA (SQUARE ENIX USA) 2-Sep 2,236,613
PS2 TONY HAWKS PRO SKATR3 ACTIVISION 1-Oct 2,102,860
PS2 METAL GEAR SOLID 2 KONAMI OF AMERICA 1-Nov 2,011,867
PS2 DRAGONBALL Z: BUDOKAI ATARI 2-Dec 1,698,330
PS2 ATV OFF ROAD FURY SONY COMPUTER ENT. (SONY) 1-Feb 1,674,611
PS2 JAK AND DAXTER:LEGACY SONY COMPUTER ENT. (SONY) 1-Dec 1,663,027
PS2 MIDNIGHT CLUB:STREET ROCKSTAR GAMES (TAKE 2) Oct-00 1,555,460
PS2 SOCOM II: NAVY SEALS SONY COMPUTER ENT. (SONY) 3-Nov 1,421,545
PS2 SOCOM:SEALS W/HEADSET SONY COMPUTER ENT. (SONY) 2-Aug 1,417,742
PS2 ACE COMBAT 4 NAMCO 1-Oct 1,415,507
PS2 TEKKEN TAG TOURNAMENT NAMCO Oct-00 1,352,042
PS2 ATV OFF ROAD FURY 2 SONY COMPUTER ENT. (SONY) 2-Nov 1,327,222
PS2 FINAL FANTASY X-2 SQUARE ENIX USA 3-Nov 1,288,961
PS2 TEKKEN 4 NAMCO 2-Sep 1,163,568
PS2 WWE: SHUT YOUR MOUTH THQ 2-Oct 1,163,431
PS2 DRAGONBALL Z:BUDOKAI2 ATARI 3-Dec 1,140,134
PS2 JAK II SONY COMPUTER ENT. (SONY) 3-Oct 1,118,590
PS2 DEVIL MAY CRY CAPCOM USA 1-Oct 1,083,186
PS2 RATCHET & CLANK SONY COMPUTER ENT. (SONY) 2-Nov 1,023,541
 
Yep. Most of the time it's true. That's what I said. And the ratio of multiplatform sellers to exclusives proves my point many times over.


By the way, using your logic games that launched before the Xbox was available don't count. DBZ Budakai 2 is on the Cube, as well.

'
 
There is a dumb software argument going on in this HARDWARE thread. Take it to the damn software thread.
 
sonycowboy said:
I'm sorry, do you mean other than these ones? :lol Show me all the Xbox and GC million seller exclusives.

And don't give me the crap about GTA not being a "valid" exlclusive. The LIONS share of all 3 titles were purchased when they were EXCLUSIVELY PS2 EXCLUSIVES.


PS2 GRAND THEFT AUTO:VICE ROCKSTAR GAMES (TAKE 2) 2-Oct 6,470,480
PS2 GRAND THEFT AUTO 3 ROCKSTAR GAMES (TAKE 2) 1-Oct 5,513,135
PS2 GRAND THEFT: ANDREAS ROCKSTAR GAMES (TAKE 2) 4-Nov 5,144,214
PS2 GRAN TURISMO 3:A-SPEC SONY COMPUTER ENT. (SONY) 1-Jul 3,657,529
PS2 KINGDOM HEARTS SQUARE EA (SQUARE ENIX USA) 2-Sep 2,236,613
PS2 TONY HAWKS PRO SKATR3 ACTIVISION 1-Oct 2,102,860
PS2 METAL GEAR SOLID 2 KONAMI OF AMERICA 1-Nov 2,011,867
PS2 DRAGONBALL Z: BUDOKAI ATARI 2-Dec 1,698,330
PS2 ATV OFF ROAD FURY SONY COMPUTER ENT. (SONY) 1-Feb 1,674,611
PS2 JAK AND DAXTER:LEGACY SONY COMPUTER ENT. (SONY) 1-Dec 1,663,027
PS2 MIDNIGHT CLUB:STREET ROCKSTAR GAMES (TAKE 2) Oct-00 1,555,460
PS2 SOCOM II: NAVY SEALS SONY COMPUTER ENT. (SONY) 3-Nov 1,421,545
PS2 SOCOM:SEALS W/HEADSET SONY COMPUTER ENT. (SONY) 2-Aug 1,417,742
PS2 ACE COMBAT 4 NAMCO 1-Oct 1,415,507
PS2 TEKKEN TAG TOURNAMENT NAMCO Oct-00 1,352,042
PS2 ATV OFF ROAD FURY 2 SONY COMPUTER ENT. (SONY) 2-Nov 1,327,222
PS2 FINAL FANTASY X-2 SQUARE ENIX USA 3-Nov 1,288,961
PS2 TEKKEN 4 NAMCO 2-Sep 1,163,568
PS2 WWE: SHUT YOUR MOUTH THQ 2-Oct 1,163,431
PS2 DRAGONBALL Z:BUDOKAI2 ATARI 3-Dec 1,140,134
PS2 JAK II SONY COMPUTER ENT. (SONY) 3-Oct 1,118,590
PS2 DEVIL MAY CRY CAPCOM USA 1-Oct 1,083,186
PS2 RATCHET & CLANK SONY COMPUTER ENT. (SONY) 2-Nov 1,023,541
Click to expand...



Why no FFX?
 
Speevy said:
Yep. Most of the time it's true. That's what I said. And the ratio of multiplatform sellers to exclusives proves my point many times over.


By the way, using your logic games that launched before the Xbox was available don't count.
Click to expand...

Because.... It's not convenient for you?

How about you produce a list of ALL the Xbox, GC, & PS2 exclusives and their average sales to back up your BS? Everything sells well on the PS2, so why knock it for that? Show me how the Xbox and GC exclusives are performing better.
 
bananadanceps2.gif
bananadanceps2.gif
bananadanceps2.gif
 
DarienA said:
You folks are taking away from basking in the glory of hardware sales...
Click to expand...

Ya know, you're a real post nazi aren't you :D :D

But seriously, PS2 kicks ass and next month will be crazy. It's still impressive given that the PS2 were still incredibly difficult to come by. The Xbox still seems to be impossible to find (for the most part). While shipments are still coming in they aren't nearly in the quantity that the PS2 is enjoying.
 
sonycowboy said:
Because.... It's not convenient for you?

How about you produce a list of ALL the Xbox, GC, & PS2 exclusives and their average sales to back up your BS? Everything sells well on the PS2, so why knock it for that? Show me how the Xbox and GC exclusives are performing better.
Click to expand...



Um...no. Because it makes about as much sense as calling the GTA series PS2 exclusive. It's not. I had it for my Xbox. Not exclusive.

But Halo outsold every actual PS2 exclusive, but not every PS2 multiplatform title. With the exception of GT3, Super Smash Brothers Melee outsold every PS2 exclusive as well.

I'm not sure what you're getting at exactly. PS2 exclusives simply do not perform as well as PS2 multiplatform games. Yeah, lots of things sell, but some things don't sell as well as others. I'm not understanding how my original statement that PS2 owners generally aren't buying the true exclusives is wrong. The PS2 is a casual market system. They don't even put exclusive stickers on the boxes because there are so many games. PS2 owners don't care whether a game is Katamari Damacy or Madden NFL 2005. They just buy what they're going to buy. And there is a DRASTIC disaparity between the multiplatform hits and the games that will NEVER be on any other platform.
 
Littleberu said:
WOUPS Microsoft. WOUPS!!
Click to expand...

It's interesting. Even with the shortages, the Xbox is having, it's managing to have positive growth YOY. What that tells me that this is most likely a supply and demand issue, not a production problem with Microsoft. That is, they're making more than they ever did before.

What will be really interesting is what happens at pricing at E3. If the PS2 continues to sell well through E3, I don't see any reason at all for them to drop the price and given Microsoft's losses on the hardware and the fact that they'll be out of the Xbox (1) making business by many analsysts accounts as this generation winds to an end, they may also decide not to drop.

That being said, if one of them drops, they both have to. The point being that neither of them might want to.
 
Halo is not exclusive. I have it for my PC. Not exclusive.




Quit while you're still behind. :lol
 
Mooreberg said:
Halo is not exclusive. I have it for my PC. Not exclusive.
Click to expand...


Halo 2 then. And I'm not behind. There is absolutely NO evidence that PS2's are bought for the best exclusives.

Does the PS2 have great exclusives? Absolutely. I never argued otherwise.

But that list of 25 or so games that sonycowboy posted is the perfect illustration of what I'm saying. It's not a very interesting idea, but it's still true.
 
Speevy said:
Um...no. Because it makes about as much sense as calling the GTA series PS2 exclusive. It's not. I had it for my Xbox. Not exclusive.

But Halo outsold every actual PS2 exclusive, but not every PS2 multiplatform title. With the exception of GT3, Super Smash Brothers Melee outsold every PS2 exclusive as well.

I'm not sure what you're getting at exactly. PS2 exclusives simply do not perform as well as PS2 multiplatform games. Yeah, lots of things sell, but some things don't sell as well as others. I'm not understanding how my original statement that PS2 owners generally aren't buying the true exclusives is wrong. The PS2 is a casual market system. They don't even put exclusive stickers on the boxes because there are so many games. PS2 owners don't care whether a game is Katamari Damacy or Madden NFL 2005. They just buy what they're going to buy. And there is a DRASTIC disaparity between the multiplatform hits and the games that will NEVER be on any other platform.
Click to expand...

I honestly don't mean to attack you, but you're a complete fool. You make arguments which are completely based on numbers I have and you can't back up your argument in the slightest. You use 1 example and try to say that's the way it is for the other 100's of examples that it doesn't work for.

Over 20M copies of GTA were sold on the PS2 before the rumor of it going to Xbox even was out there. Another 10M units of GTA:SA were sold before it wasn't an exclusive.

Halo 1&2 is the only Xbox game that has sold over 1.5 million copies. You're going to hold up a single game as your reasoning. That's competely assinine.

Same goes for SSBM. Again, the only 2+M selling game on the console, whereas the PS2 has like 15. I know that the GCN has a good 4 or so titles selling over 1.5M, but it's still literally a drop in the bucket when you're considering exclusives.

I think you need to look at the fact that those games are the "white" knights for their respective consoles and look at the other 99% of exclusives.
 
Mooreberg said:
Halo is not exclusive. I have it for my PC. Not exclusive.




Quit while you're still behind. :lol
Click to expand...

:lol Speevy, save your energy for the Media Create thread - you're going to burn out too soon.
 
There is absolutely NO evidence that PS2's are bought for the best exclusives.
Click to expand...

Your logic has too many holes in it to even contend with. The GTA games were exclusive on PS2 for two years, just as Halo was on Xbox before the PC version (hence the deliberately worded statement in my previous post). People did go out and buy a PS2 for GTA3 and Vice City. Making an arbitrary list based on where games went two years later is pretty pathetic.
 
sonycowboy said:
It get's much worse if you show 2002. ( Dec-02 2,733,000 + Jan-03 448,000 )

That was what this holiday could have been. It was the first holiday season at $149 and Sony squandered it. The interesting thing will be if they can recapture those lost sales.
Click to expand...

I maintain that shortages were not the ONLY driving factor here. The XBox took market share all year, and that was accentuated at year end by the shortages.
 
sonycowboy said:
I honestly don't mean to attack you, but you're a complete fool. You make arguments which are completely based on numbers I have and you can't back up your argument in the slightest. You use 1 example and try to say that's the way it is for the other 100's of examples that it doesn't work for.

Over 20M copies of GTA were sold on the PS2 before the rumor of it going to Xbox even was out there. Another 10M units of GTA:SA were sold before it wasn't an exclusive.

Halo 1&2 is the only Xbox game that has sold over 1.5 million copies. You're going to hold up a single game as your reasoning. That's competely assinine.

Same goes for SSBM. Again, the only 2+M selling game on the console, whereas the PS2 has like 15. I know that the GCN has a good 4 or so titles selling over 1.5M, but it's still literally a drop in the bucket when you're considering exclusives.

I think you need to look at the fact that those games are the "white" knights for their respective consoles and look at the other 99% of exclusives.
Click to expand...



First of all, we're talking about US sales, remember? Otherwise, you're ABSOLUTELY FRIGGIN' CRAZY about that 1.5 million Xbox number.


1) What am I saying that's wrong? You're arguing that PS2 exclusives like those 25 you listed are why it's selling. You don't have the numbers to back that up.

2) Why do you keep bringing up the Xbox and GCN? I never mentioned those as per my debate with you. Read the thread over again, and notice who I'm replying to from post to post.
 
Yeah, lots of things sell, but some things don't sell as well as others. I'm not understanding how my original statement that PS2 owners generally aren't buying the true exclusives is wrong. The PS2 is a casual market system. They don't even put exclusive stickers on the boxes because there are so many games.
Click to expand...

I think you are missing the whole point. I have a TON of exclusive games for my PS2, and only a couple are even on that million sellers list. Most of the rest of the games have sold VERY respectably. Is a 500k selling game a failure? How about a 250k selling game that appeals to a niche market?

What do you think about the sales of Champions of Norrath? Or Sly Cooper? Or Dark Cloud 2? Or Disgaea? Or Hots Shots Golf 2/3? Or Virtua Fighter 4? Or Eyetoy? Or Karaoke Revolution? Or ICO (deserves to sell about 100x as much, but it actually has pretty decent sales by now)? Even Katamari Damacy sold very well, all things considered.

Oh, and 'Yeah for PS2 system sales!' and all that jazz...
 
GhaleonEB said:
I maintain that shortages were not the ONLY driving factor here. The XBox took market share all year, and that was accentuated at year end by the shortages.
Click to expand...

It took market share when

a) It dropped in price 2 months ahead of the PS2
b) The PS2 had shortages since June.

Seriously, the $149 price point clearly had the potential to give the PS2 it's greatest sales yet, which is how it's ALWAYS worked historically. $149 is the magic price point the same for the Xbox as for the PS2, that's why it had YOY increases.

But, to say that the $149 did more for the Xbox than the PS2 because of "momentum" is silly.


PriceGeneration.jpg
[/IMG]
 
btutterrow said:
I think you are missing the whole point. I have a TON of exclusive games for my PS2, and only a couple are even on that million sellers list. Most of the rest of the games have sold VERY respectably. Is a 500k selling game a failure? How about a 250k selling game that appeals to a niche market?

What do you think about the sales of Champions of Norrath? Or Sly Cooper? Or Dark Cloud 2? Or Disgaea? Or Hots Shots Golf 2/3? Or Virtua Fighter 4? Or Eyetoy? Or Karaoke Revolution? Or ICO (deserves to sell about 100x as much, but it actually has pretty decent sales by now)? Even Katamari Damacy sold very well, all things considered.

...
Click to expand...


Sure, those games are great. But do you think those are the driving force behind these huge PS2 hardware numbers?

I don't get what the misunderstanding is. There are tons of great games on the PS2, which generally get overlooked for more mass market-oriented multiplatform titles. The PS2 has em' all. What is so controversial about this idea?
 
GAF:

Gaming Discussion
Talk about anything and everything videogame related here.

Off-Topic Discussion
Everything else.

Online / Matchup Forum
The place to schedule meetings and tourneys for all online-enabled games

Forum Archive
Relive classic GA moments

Other
Speevy vs sonycowboy
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

AMD Threadripper 9000 review thread
Hardware 
48
2K
Loomy replied
Limited edition Genshin Impact DualSense to be released on January 21, 2026 in Japan and Asia; February 25, 2026 in the West
News Hardware 
3
81
Mr Moose replied
The Year is 2005
2
75
2K
Hypereides replied
Valve Claims Steam Machine Better Than 70% of PCs People Have At Home
Game Dev Hardware  6 7 8 9 10
454
2K
Hudo replied
PCI Express 8.0 will have 1 TB/s of bandwidth
Hardware 
11
399
StereoVsn replied
Top Bottom