January Wrasslin |OT| Every Mark For Himself

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HarryDemeanor said:
THE BAD GUY. RAZOR RAMON.
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GEDC0246-vi.jpg


Hey Yo
 
WRESTLEGAF:

I don't know if any of you remember me from the wrestling threads of old (I used to be huge into the WWF/WWE... still pissed off about that time Jericho won the title but HHH overturned it), but haven't watched for years.

Anyway, I'm writing a short fiction story about an older female wrestler, and I was wondering if any of you have any good sites or references I could use to get details for the story? Things like what wrestlers (preferably female) have to go through. I might set the story in the 90's, so there'd be less wholly-slutty Diva's, but anything you think might work would do.

Feel free to PM me or post in this thread; I'll check back over the coming days. Thanks.
 
Mike Works said:
WRESTLEGAF:

I don't know if any of you remember me from the wrestling threads of old (I used to be huge into the WWF/WWE... still pissed off about that time Jericho won the title but HHH overturned it), but haven't watched for years.

Anyway, I'm writing a short fiction story about an older female wrestler, and I was wondering if any of you have any good sites or references I could use to get details for the story? Things like what wrestlers (preferably female) have to go through. I might set the story in the 90's, so there'd be less wholly-slutty Diva's, but anything you think might work would do.

Feel free to PM me or post in this thread; I'll check back over the coming days. Thanks.
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Look up Chyna's work for vivid.
 
Mike Works said:
WRESTLEGAF:

I don't know if any of you remember me from the wrestling threads of old (I used to be huge into the WWF/WWE... still pissed off about that time Jericho won the title but HHH overturned it), but haven't watched for years.

Anyway, I'm writing a short fiction story about an older female wrestler, and I was wondering if any of you have any good sites or references I could use to get details for the story? Things like what wrestlers (preferably female) have to go through. I might set the story in the 90's, so there'd be less wholly-slutty Diva's, but anything you think might work would do.

Feel free to PM me or post in this thread; I'll check back over the coming days. Thanks.
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You could probably check out Chyna's book. Also, there was the whole "Piggie James" incident that happened on Raw a year or so ago.
 
Mike Works said:
Anyway, I'm writing a short fiction story about an older female wrestler, and I was wondering if any of you have any good sites or references I could use to get details for the story? Things like what wrestlers (preferably female) have to go through. I might set the story in the 90's, so there'd be less wholly-slutty Diva's, but anything you think might work would do.
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Hey Mike, I'm not sure of any sites or books that would help with that, but I can recommend the BBC documentary 'Gaea Girls' which deals with a Japanese women's wrestling training school. The story, as such, follows a number of young trainee wrestlers attempting to break into the business and you get a good idea about the reasons why these young girls would want to become wrestlers in the first place, as well as seeing what they are put through at the hands of their trainers, which sometimes borders on straight-up abuse. Also, you get a look at things from the trainers perspective, Meiko Satomura who is an ex-student just a year or two graduated, and joshi-wrestling legend and head trainer Chigusa Nagayo, both giving an insight on why they feel they have to be hard on their students to protect the business and the reasons they themselves got involved in the first place.

Gaea Girls;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I_EL22-UIXg - Part 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zwh0lUUjaGY - Part 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tc8oagcytVo - Part 3
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i7ENfXMdh-M - Part 4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Z6ru9xYK2U - Part 5
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G33t0KMLmis - Part 6
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JCn_zVVusP0 - Part 7
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LmOcjwiOLWA - Part 8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=245zlx98wTo - Part 9
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HXjSS5e-Occ - Part 10
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HXjSS5e-Occ - Part 11
 
Mike Works said:
WRESTLEGAF:

I don't know if any of you remember me from the wrestling threads of old (I used to be huge into the WWF/WWE... still pissed off about that time Jericho won the title but HHH overturned it), but haven't watched for years.

Anyway, I'm writing a short fiction story about an older female wrestler, and I was wondering if any of you have any good sites or references I could use to get details for the story? Things like what wrestlers (preferably female) have to go through. I might set the story in the 90's, so there'd be less wholly-slutty Diva's, but anything you think might work would do.

Feel free to PM me or post in this thread; I'll check back over the coming days. Thanks.
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Whoa, right there...

The 90's weren't exactly known for being a highpoint in women's wrestling, at least not in North America. (It was incredible in Japan though.) In North America, females were pushed more heavily into being valets than ever, especially after G.L.O.W., which tried to use the perceived momentum of the Wendi Richter/Cindi Lauper angle which captured mainstream attention in the early 80's, never really took off past the curiosity stage for mainstream viewers, and eventually failed completely in 1992.

So for most of the 90's it was three or four actual women's wrestlers of significance, like Madusa, Luna, and Jacqueline, (who was still a manager/valet for most of the 90s) plus whatever Japanese talent WCW brought in from time to time.

And as far as being "wholly-slutty," the 90's were probably the sluttiest era ever for women's wrestling. 2012 looks like a feminist's dream world in comparison. The biggest female "names" in wrestling in the 90's regularly showed up in skimpy lingerie and thong-back bikinis far more often than they'd lace on a pair of boots, and even when they would lace 'em up, there was still pressure to wear something skimpy. Both Luna and Madusa, (supposedly two of the "real" wrestlers in this decade) still wore outfits featuring t-backs...and this was ring attire we're talking about here.

Check this video out for a pretty accurate time-machine glimpse back to what the 90's were all about for women:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D1HtLeVK5FY

If the character in the story is pretty, it might be interesting to have that conflict in there. She wants to wrestle, but they just want her to be a valet.

Or, you could have her go off to Japan, where women's wrestling was peaking, where she didn't know anyone or speak a word of the language, ect. Or she could go to Mexico to do Lucha.
 
Pristine_Condition said:
The 90's weren't exactly known for being a highpoint in women's wrestling, at least not in North America.
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Yeah, once GLOW and LPWA closed (both in 1992) there was literally no significant women's promotion in the US.

Pristine_Condition said:
And as far as being "wholly-slutty," the 90's were probably the sluttiest era ever for women's wrestling.
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While that is true, I think the era is often perceived as being less slutty because the women actually wrestling were usually very muscle-bound and looked like wrestlers, like Luna, Medusa or Chyna, while the wannabe-models were more often valets or managers. Today it's gone the opposite way as, while the ring attire is a lot less skimpy, it seems women wrestlers need a pretty face and big cans to make it in TNA or WWE more than they need actual wrestling ability.

NoRéN said:
Bootaaay, do you ever just tip over because your head is so heavy with wrasslin' knowledge?
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Not as of yet, there doesn't seem to be an upper limit on how much pointless wrestling knowledge I can fit in :p
 
Pristine_Condition said:
Whoa, right there...

The 90's weren't exactly known for being a highpoint in women's wrestling, at least not in North America. (It was incredible in Japan though.) In North America, females were pushed more heavily into being valets than ever, especially after G.L.O.W., which tried to use the perceived momentum of the Wendi Richter/Cindi Lauper angle which captured mainstream attention in the early 80's, never really took off past the curiosity stage for mainstream viewers, and eventually failed completely in 1992.

So for most of the 90's it was three or four actual women's wrestlers of significance, like Madusa, Luna, and Jacqueline, (who was still a manager/valet for most of the 90s) plus whatever Japanese talent WCW brought in from time to time.

And as far as being "wholly-slutty," the 90's were probably the sluttiest era ever for women's wrestling. 2012 looks like a feminist's dream world in comparison. The biggest female "names" in wrestling in the 90's regularly showed up in skimpy lingerie and thong-back bikinis far more often than they'd lace on a pair of boots, and even when they would lace 'em up, there was still pressure to wear something skimpy. Both Luna and Madusa, (supposedly two of the "real" wrestlers in this decade) still wore outfits featuring t-backs...and this was ring attire we're talking about here.

Check this video out for a pretty accurate time-machine glimpse back to what the 90's were all about for women:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D1HtLeVK5FY

If the character in the story is pretty, it might be interesting to have that conflict in there. She wants to wrestle, but they just want her to be a valet.

Or, you could have her go off to Japan, where women's wrestling was peaking, where she didn't know anyone or speak a word of the language, ect. Or she could go to Mexico to do Lucha.
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I'm actually looking to create a character that's closer to something like a Luna or Chyna, than any of the pretty valet's (Sunny, Sable, etc.). That's why I'm considering the slutty 90's era, because there were a few small pockets of legit female wrestlers in the limelight that had to deal with the majority of pretty faces with little-to-no wrestling talent that dominated the industry.

I kind of wish I didn't start my research for this tonight though, because now I'm bummed from discovering how many wrestlers I used to watch in the WWF are now dead.
 
Bootaaay said:
Yeah, once GLOW and LPWA closed (both in 1992) there was literally no significant women's promotion in the US.



While that is true, I think the era is often perceived as being less slutty because the women actually wrestling were usually very muscle-bound and looked like wrestlers, like Luna, Medusa or Chyna, while the wannabe-models were more often valets or managers. Today it's gone the opposite way as, while the ring attire is a lot less skimpy, it seems women wrestlers need a pretty face and big cans to make it in TNA or WWE more than they need actual wrestling ability.



Not as of yet, there doesn't seem to be an upper limit on how much pointless wrestling knowledge I can fit in :p
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Most of the wannabe models wrestling currently could wrestle circles around Chyna. Looks don't really matter when the majority of the WWE Divas said how awful Chyna was to work with.
 
Bootaaay said:
Yeah, once GLOW and LPWA closed (both in 1992) there was literally no significant women's promotion in the US.



While that is true, I think the era is often perceived as being less slutty because the women actually wrestling were usually very muscle-bound and looked like wrestlers, like Luna, Medusa or Chyna, while the wannabe-models were more often valets or managers. Today it's gone the opposite way as, while the ring attire is a lot less skimpy, it seems women wrestlers need a pretty face and big cans to make it in TNA or WWE more than they need actual wrestling ability.
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Nah, I don't buy it.

I don't see how a wrestling fan who has watched wrestling long enough to have seen both the women's product of the 90's and the current product could see it that way. It could only be someone who misremembers the 90's entirely, or perhaps gets it mixed up with the 80's.

If you've actually watched long enough to have seen and remember both correctly, it's impossible to perceive it the way you have drawn it out.

A huge deal was that in between the current product and the product of the 90's was Trish Stratus. Stratus came along and really worked hard to become a wrestler and proved that you could have both looks and wrestling ability. And she became a huge star, which inspired more girls than ever.

I think that combination of looks and skill is still considered the ideal in the WWE. The shame is that the people making talent decisions think they can just will someone like a Kelly Kelly to catch fire and become good in the ring, when clearly you can't just flip that switch.

It's not like this is a unique phenomenon for females though. The history of wrestling is littered with tons of male wrestlers that the feds tried to push to the moon who absolutely couldn't work, with the hope that someday they'd turn into a worker. Why should we act so appalled that this goes on in the women's division as well, especially when that division doesn't have the pressure of finding a star who actually draws money? Kelly Kelly is just John Cena with far less experience and even lower in-ring expectations, in that regard.

But if you look at the work that even the pretty girls put in, (especially if you attend a house show, where you get to see them work a little story) even a Kelly Kelly match is far FAR superior to a similar Sable match in the 90's. (Don't forget those "matches" when Sable actually had the Women's Championship back in the day.) [shudder]

And the matches of the top girls who can really go in TNA and WWE are quite a lot better than the matches of Luna v. Madusa and the like back in the 90's (minus the ones where talent was imported from Japan.)

Then there are the girls you don't see wrestle, who are sometimes hotter looking than even the supposedly "hot" valets of the 90s, who can flat out go. Girls like Serena Deeb and Katie Lea Burchill, who are easily hotter than half the valet sluts of the 90s were, can flat-out work. But they were just sidelined in WWE.

Also, to counter your argument about muscley women who looked like wrestlers...you mentioned three, (because really,, that's all there were) but I can top that today, just in the WWE alone. (Kaitlin, Aksana, Beth Phoenix, and Natalya). So that argument doesn't hold a whole lot of water either.

And the biggest push the WWE has given a female since Trish was the push they gave to Awesome Kong/Karma. They pushed her harder than they've ever pushed any of the Barbies.

And the whole perception really comes apart when you look at the girls who can go in TNA, and the massive amounts of girls waiting in the wings in places like FCW and Shimmer. There's way more talent out there than there ever was in N. America in the 90's.

So I don't see how you could come up with that notion if you've been watching from the 90's to now. At least that's my opinion.
 
I shouldn't have ended with 'wrestling ability', as I didn't mean to suggest that Chyna was a good worker, but I'd just woken up, so give me a break :p - my point was simply that the focus was put on those women because of their strong appearance, they looked liked wrestlers in the traditional sense, regardless of whether they could actually back it up in the ring with good matches. Just like today, and for the latter part of the 90's, it was and is often more important for a women to look Playboy attractive than be a good wrestler, while, as you said, great wrestlers like Serena Deeb are barely given the opportunity to wrestle. But undoubtedly the state of women's wrestling today is above and beyond what it was in the 90's, the Divas in WWE are largely presented as athletes, not sex objects, even if they aren't given them much time, and TNA for the most part does a great job putting focus on the Knockouts division, making them seem like part of the program rather than an afterthought, while there's numerous women's promotions in the US like SHIMMER & WSU putting on fantastic shows and indies like CHIKARA & AIW that are helping bring women's wrestling to a wider audience. I just think that both TNA & WWE should be taking more advantadge of the wealth of talent available.
 
This is different than the other one that is available today.

Wrestling Observer Radio - January 9th

Wrestling Observer Radio with Bryan Alvarez and Dave Meltzer returns to talk all the news in wrestling and MMA including a full rundown and analysis of Sunday night's Genesis PPV which, let's be honest, almost none of you watched, why TNA seems to be actively driving off PPV buyers, the Bull Nakano retirement show which was apparently outstanding, Chris Jericho's weekend gimmick, a potential new Cain Velasquez fight, and tons more.
 
Looking back at Genesis, I thought it was a solid PPV. Entertaining matches all around. Still not a fan of the Hardy/Roode finish but for TNA's first PPV of 2012, it gets a thumbs up from me.
 
Bootaaay said:
it was and is often more important for a women to look Playboy attractive than be a good wrestler, while, as you said, great wrestlers like Serena Deeb are barely given the opportunity to wrestle.
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She got one match in WWE. One. That whole SES run...one. Horrible.
 
So with all the nostalgia going around, who is one of your favorite "I can't believe he's so OVER with this crowd" performers?

Seeing that pic of Disco Inferno inspired me. He has my vote.
 
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