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[Walpurgis]

Japan Emperor Akihito expressed rare "deep remorse" over his country's wartime actions in an address Saturday marking the 70th anniversary of the country's Second World War surrender, a day after the prime minister fell short of apologizing in his own words to the victims of Japanese aggression.

"Reflecting on our past and bearing in mind the feelings of deep remorse over the last war, I earnestly hope that the ravages of war will never be repeated," Akihito said in his speech. Japanese media said it was the first time he had used the words "deep remorse" in reference to the war in his annual war-end anniversary speech.

Akihito also emphasized that Japan's peace and prosperity stand on "the people's tireless endeavours and their earnest desire for peace," and renewed his war-renouncing pledge.

Even though they are subtle and still rather neutral, remarks by the emperor on Japan's wartime past in recent years have caught attention, often portrayed in the media to contrast Abe's nationalist and hawkish image, especially as he pushes to give Japan's military an expanded role and change Japan's pacifist constitution.

Abe, who also spoke at the memorial service, avoided any reference to the damage caused by Japan's aggression for the third year in a row since he took office in December 2012.

Instead, as if talking to the spirits of the war dead, Abe thanked them for the sacrifice on which he said Japan's peace and prosperity are built.

On Friday, Abe issued a closely monitored statement, acknowledging damage and suffering on innocent people but falling short of apologizing in his own words to the victims of Japan's aggression.

His statement had been widely anticipated because of his past remarks on historical issues that suggested a revisionist stance. He has repeatedly said there is no clear definition of aggression, and has denied that Japan's wartime government coerced foreign women to become military prostitutes, citing lack of documentary evidence.

Friday's statement drew mixed reactions from overseas — including criticism from China and South Korea, and praise from the United States. South Korean President Park Geun-hye said the statement "left a lot to be desired," and China called it evasive.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/japan-...orse-on-ww-ii-surrender-anniversary-1.3192324

 

[Currygan]

has America ever apologised for Hiroshima and Nagasaki?

 

[RELAYER]

has America ever apologised for Hiroshima and Nagasaki?

 

[Currygan]

it was a kind of a honest question!

 

[ElectricBlanketFire]

has America ever apologised for Hiroshima and Nagasaki?

I remember reading that Obama wanted to but Japan refused.

I'd need a credible source though to confirm that.

 

[winjet81]

has America ever apologised for Hiroshima and Nagasaki?

Winners don't apologize.

 

[Oberon]

has America ever apologised for Hiroshima and Nagasaki?

History is written by the winners. If you win, you were on the right and don't need to apologize. As cruel as is sounds, it's unfortunately how it is.

 

[Grover Cleveland]

has America ever apologised for Hiroshima and Nagasaki?

IF this is a real question...no.

However, (according to Wikileaks) Obama tried to apologize in 2009 but Tokyo wouldn't let him thinking that the event would be used as ammo for anti-nuclear activists and opponents to Japanese-US relations in their country.

 

[Walpurgis]

has America ever apologised for Hiroshima and Nagasaki?

I remember reading that Obama wanted to but Japan refused.

I'd need a credible source though to confirm that.

POTUS VISIT TO JAPAN: TOO EARLY FOR HIROSHIMA VISIT
--------------------------------------------- ------

¶5. (C) VFM Yabunaka pointed out that the Japanese public
will have high expectations toward President Obama's visit to
Japan in November, as the President enjoys an historic level
of popularity among the Japanese people. Anti-nuclear
groups, in particular, will speculate whether the President
would visit Hiroshima in light of his April 5 Prague speech
on non-proliferation. He underscored, however, that both
governments must temper the public's expectations on such
issues, as the idea of President Obama visiting Hiroshima to
apologize for the atomic bombing during World War II is a
"non-starter." While a simple visit to Hiroshima without
fanfare is sufficiently symbolic to convey the right message,
it is premature to include such program in the November
visit. Yabunaka recommended that the visit in November
center mostly in Tokyo, with calls on the Emperor and Prime
Minister, as well as some form of public program, such as
speeches, an engagement at a university, or a town hall-like
meeting with local residents. Highlighting the busy
political calendar in the coming weeks, including the
election of the new Prime Minister, launching of the new
Cabinet, and the Prime Minister's participation in the UN
General Assembly and the Pittsburgh G-20 Summit, Yabunaka
noted that both sides should begin working quickly on the
President's November visit. The Ambassador conveyed an

TOKYO 00002033 003.2 OF 003


informal invitation for the new Prime Minister to attend the
Pittsburgh Summit, adding that an official invitation will
follow once the Prime Minister is elected.

https://cablegatesearch.wikileaks.org/cable.php?id=09TOKYO2033

 

[Kenshin001]

I've been watching some of the TV shows about the war here in Japan and it is bizarre. Not a single mention of the Chinese, Koreans, Filipinos or Allied POWs who were killed during the war. It is all about how Japan suffered. There was one show where a half American girl talked to a Japanese man and asked him if his views had changed and he said he still hated the Americans for what they did during the war, bringing her to tears. I was astounded at the audacity. I felt like shouting at him what about all those millions of people who died at the hands of the Japanese military you stupid fuck.

 

[JordanN]

Imagine if Germany never apologized for WW2. Treaty of Versailles part 2.

 

[Htown]

has America ever apologised for Hiroshima and Nagasaki?

We didn't apologize for any of the other cities we bombed to shit in World War 2, why would those be any different?

 

[Forkball]

Imagine if Germany never apologized for WW2. Treaty of Versailles part 2.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_war_apology_statements_issued_by_Japan

Ironically, according to the article Akihito did use "deepest remorse" in 1990.

 

[BronsonLee]

We didn't apologize for any of the other cities we bombed to shit in World War 2, why would those be any different?

I can think of a few reasons.

 

[Bluth54]

has America ever apologised for Hiroshima and Nagasaki?

We should probably apologize for not using warning nukes.

 

[hom3land]

has America ever apologised for Hiroshima and Nagasaki?

Has Kyoto ever thanked America?

 

[Chariot]

Winners don't apologize.

They also don't apologize when they don't win. The judged themselves for Agent Orange and declared themselves not guilty of war crimes after they used chemical warfare and literally crippled vietnamese people for generations. My aunt is working in an orphanage for children crippled by Agent Orange. Shit's terrible.

And I want of course not stay silent about single americans and american organisations working to help the aftermath of it. There are some heartwarming stories. But the government as a whole mostly seems to ignore that part of history.

 

[……forgetit]

I can think of a few reasons.

Like? We killed way more Japanese civilians with fire bombings than we did with nukes.

 

[shem935]

I can think of a few reasons.

Firebombings of especially Tokyo and Dresden were a lot worse than the nukes we dropped on Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

 

[Skellig Gra]

I can think of a few reasons.

Any that don't lack perspective?

 

[Alucrid]

does he have deep remorse over how much of a revisionist cunt his pm is?

 

[Sumio Mondo]

Firebombings of especially Tokyo and Dresden were a lot worse than the nukes we dropped on Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

Is it a competition, or something?

They also don't apologize when they don't win. The judged themselves for Agent Orange and declared themselves not guilty of war crimes after they used chemical warfare and literally crippled vietnamese people for generations. My aunt is working in an orphanage for children crippled by Agent Orange. Shit's terrible.

And I want of course not stay silent about single americans and american organisations working to help the aftermath of it. There are some heartwarming stories. But the government as a whole mostly seems to ignore that part of history.

Yup, there's plenty of blame to go around here. They treated their veterans coming back from Vietnam terribly too. People have short term memories.

 

[Snaku]

Like? We killed way more Japanese civilians with fire bombings than we did with nukes.

If anything the atomic bomb was humane compared to what he had been doing to them up to that point.

 

[-ImaginaryInsider]

The US sent Japan luxury items and apology leaflets after the war which earned eternal forgiveness.

 

[BronsonLee]

Like? We killed way more Japanese civilians with fire bombings than we did with nukes.

Firebombings of especially Tokyo and Dresden were a lot worse than the nukes we dropped on Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

Notability is the main one I can think of. As cruel as it sounds, the firebombings didn't end the war, the nukes did. It's the incident that immediately comes to mind for me when it comes to WW2.

I really don't like comparing the two, either.

Any that don't lack perspective?

That's probably my cue to exit. I'd rather not go down this path.

 

[jelly]

I never knew there was fairly nationalistic side to Japan that thought they did nothing wrong after all this time. Probably doesn't help that the government doesn't shine light on their bad war history for future generations.

I don't think the allies did that much right either by not shining a light and seeking to convict the many more war criminals in Japan. It felt like it was all brushed under the carpet and thanks for documents and intelligence in exchange.

 

[gdt]

This is gonna be part II to the last thread on this subject haha.



Anyways this discord that seems to be happening with the PM Abe is interesting. Is he also socially conservative in Japan (or whatever their version of conservatism is).

 

[shem935]

Is it a competition, or something?

No but if the bar at which we start apologizing for bombed cities is Hiroshima and Nagasaki then you need to address the massive Elephant in the room of hundreds of thousands of melted civilians. Just because we used nukes in this scenario doesn't make them somehow worse. It makes them more important for geopolitics, not human suffering.

 

[Chariot]

I can think of a few reasons.

He isn't saying that nuclear bombs or fire bombing were cool things. But that is war. As preferable it would be, civilian casulties happen. Case in point: dropping atomic bombs was shitty. Firebombing was shitty. War is shitty. Not dropping the atomic bombs could've lead to more firebombing in more cities a ground invasion and more months, maybe years of shitty war. Thus it could be argued that ending it quickly is the least shitty thing to do, for both american soldiers and japanese citizens, even if the means to do so were shitty.

Yup, there's plenty of blame to go around here. They treated their veterans coming back from Vietnam terribly too. People have short term memories.

Oh, I didn't know that. I always thought that Vietnam Vets are highly appraised and valued in the States.

 

[Sumio Mondo]

If anything the atomic bomb was humane compared to what he had been doing to them up to that point.

Nah. If anything, it was a final insult.

 

[gdt]

Oh, I didn't know that. I always thought that Vietnam Vets are highly appraised and valued in the States.

Maybe nowadays (not really, they don't get the funding and care they need, just lip service), but at the time they were caught in a weird place. Anti war activists hated the soldiers coming back home, and the soldiers themselves were coming back anti war so when they started speaking out the warhawks jumped down their throats.

Its a shame.

 

[Arc]

I'm consistently surprised by the amount of uninformed posters here who just blatanly ignore the facts about imperial Japan and the necessity of those bombs.

But hey, everyone loves a reason to bash America.

 

[Bubble Metropolis]

I never knew there was fairly nationalistic side to Japan that thought they did nothing wrong after all this time.

Certainly there are people who feel the attack against America was justified as well as that their incursions into the rest of Asia were altruistic in origin. The latter belief is more commonly expressed than the prior, though. I don't think most people could get away with openly supporting the decision to engage in war with America, but pretty much any Yahoo, etc. news article on Japan-Korea relations or about Japanese colonial history will have plenty of "Yeah, Hitler may have been bad but he kept the trains running on time."-style comments.

Anecdotally, I've been to bars here in more rural Japan where people were proudly singing old war anthems from the period with accompanying footage from Japanese-sided war preparation reels. I didn't stick around long.

 

[……forgetit]

Notability is the main one I can think of. As cruel as it sounds, the firebombings didn't end the war, the nukes did. It's the incident that immediately comes to mind for me when it comes to WW2.

I really don't like comparing the two, either.



That's probably my cue to exit. I'd rather not go down this path.

Also the president tried to as stated earlier. Japan didn't want us to for their own political reasons.

 

[shem935]

Nah. If anything, it was a final insult.

The alternative to a final insult being a long drawn out kick in the balls as we invaded on the ground and ended up killing more Japanese soldiers and civilians than with the bombs.

Dan Carlin has a good episode called logical insanity on this topic. People should give it a listen.

This will be the last I post on the topic as it is off topic.

 

[danm999]

While I can appreciate the use of atomic weapons is a pretty huge factor in reflecting on Japanese-American relations in that time, consider that Japan confronting its WW2 actions more seriously than it has recently is a pretty big deal for a lot of other countries too.

It's a little bigger than those two countries.

amazing thread derail

Indeed.

 

[Ivan Amiibo]

amazing thread derail

 

[Maxim726X]

I'm consistently surprised by the amount of uninformed posters here who just blatanly ignore the facts about imperial Japan and the necessity of those bombs.

But hey, everyone loves a reason to bash America.

Agreed.

As some have said in this thread, it may have been the most humane course of action at the time.

 

[matt360]

I never knew there was fairly nationalistic side to Japan that thought they did nothing wrong after all this time. Probably doesn't help that the government doesn't shine light on their bad war history for future generations.

I don't think the allies did that much right either by not shining a light and seeking to convict the many more war criminals in Japan. It felt like it was all brushed under the carpet and thanks for documents and intelligence in exchange.

Oh man, it's pretty bad. And living in Hiroshima is a very mixed bag. Making paper cranes and writing peace messages are just part of everyday life here, but the lack of actual knowledge surrounding the bombing and the history of the war in general, and the victim mentality that nearly all Japanese people possess is infuriating.

Apathy is a huge problem in Japan. I guarantee you that people posting in this thread know more about the bombing and the war than the vast majority of Hiroshima citizens. They literally know nothing of Japan's aggressions because they are never taught, and then you have these douchebags like Abe rewriting history and bullying war museums to change any displays that show Japan in a negative light.

Edit to put this somewhat back on topic: I do think it was cool of the emperor to say what he said. Dude seems like he's got a firm grasp on the reality of what happened and what led to it. I wonder what he thinks about Abe. Their ideals seem completely at odds.

 

[Chariot]

While I can appreciate the use of atomic weapons is a pretty huge factor in reflecting on Japanese-American relations in that time, consider that Japan confronting its WW2 actions more seriously than it has recently is a pretty big deal for a lot of other countries too.

It's a little bigger than those two countries.

I think Japan reflected better, less because of the bombs, but for the same reason Germany got better. The allies, especially the USA learned from what they did in Versailles. Instead of cutting the countries down and humiliating their people, they moved to help them up and devlope a healthy democracy and a place in the world so that people could concenrate on rebuilding instead of harnessing hatred. Worked pretty well for a long time.

Agreed.

As some have said in this thread, it may have been the most humane course of action at the time.

I think it's the easiest to acknowledge that dropping bombs is shitty, but that shitty things are what happen in a war and that this particular shitty thing was successfully used to prevent even more shitty things. Don't try to call it humane, because it wasn't humane. Just call it what it was: necessary evil.

 

[danm999]

I think Japan reflected better, less because of the bombs, but for the same reason Germany got better. The allies, especially the USA learned from what they did in Versailles. Instead of cutting the countries down and humiliating their people, they moved to help them up and devlope a healthy democracy and a place in the world so that people could concenrate on rebuilding instead of harnessing hatred. Worked pretty well for a long time.

Japan and Germany are definitely success stories in terms of post war reconstruction.

Wish that sort of thing was more common today.

 

[shem935]

On topic. How often have we expected an apology from Germany in this regard (honest question I haven't heard ever of Germany formaly apologizing though I am sure it has happened)? It seems like Japan is more afraid of what they were with a sect looking to constantly apologize and another seeking to bury it in history with the emperor subscribing to the former.

Edit: do some still deny Nanking? That...is troubling.

 

[Massive Duck. C.M.]

Just a reminder that the emperor is a complete figurehead and isn't actually involved in politics. Abe is a dick

 

[DiipuSurotu]

I never knew there was fairly nationalistic side to Japan that thought they did nothing wrong after all this time. Probably doesn't help that the government doesn't shine light on their bad war history for future generations.

It's disturbingly common. Even Koichi Sugiyama, the composer of the Dragon Quest series, is a nationalistic revisionist who denies that the Rape of Nanking even happened.

 

[Africanus]

We didn't apologize for any of the other cities we bombed to shit in World War 2, why would those be any different?

I would hazard a guess and say because of the long lasting radiation effects in addition to deaths that affect thousands of Japanese citizens today and will potentially affect millions as generations reproduce.

Cities that were bombed can be rebuilt, but how long can it be for radiation poisoning?

 

[dabig2]

has America ever apologised for Hiroshima and Nagasaki?

In the words of President George HW Bush:
"I will never apologize for the United States. Ever. I don’t care what the facts are." Said after we firebombed a civilian Iranian airplane.

 

[Chariot]

On topic. How often have we expected an apology from Germany in this regard (honest question I haven't heard ever of Germany formaly apologizing though I am sure it has happened)? It seems like Japan is more afraid of what they were with a sect looking to constantly apologize and another seeking to bury it in history with the emperor subscribing to the former.

I think Germany is constantly apologizing, ablbeit more for the Holocaust than actual World War 2 when I think about it. But I am sure we're also apologizing a lot for the war itself. I mean, there are a lot of articles titled like "Germany won respect by addressing its World War II crimes. Japan, not so much." where the proper Germany is used to adress the improper Japan.

We have a lot of museums, memorials and education of the topic. There are a lot of documentaries about the Reich and I didn't have one year of history in school where a part of Nazi Germany wasn't a theme for a few months. Germany certainly didn't forget yet what it did.

 

[……forgetit]

I would hazard a guess and say because of the long lasting radiation effects in addition to deaths that affect thousands of Japanese citizens today and will potentially affect millions as generations reproduce.

Cities that were bombed can be rebuilt, but how long can it be for radiation poisoning?

There has been no sign of disabilities among the children of survivors who weren't exposed in utero. The fallout was dispersed in the upper atmosphere instead of on the ground so it hasn't lingered at all.

 

[Succinct Verbosity]

Dunno why people are comparing the use of two nuclear bombs to other, unrelated acts. Using nuclear weapons (or any bomb during that period) lead to a huge amount of innocent lives being lost, but it was a means to an end... It was a calculated action to end the war, and it certainly did that. The mass rapes and torturing of detainees by the Japanese served no purpose, even in war, other than to, you know, rape and torture.

 

[tokkun]

Winners don't apologize.

The US apologized to Native Americans and native Hawaiians.