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[Stumpokapow]

Tidal is basically a solution in search of a problem no one had backed by an insanely pathetic top-down attempt to elbow its way into the market. It's the exact opposite of the formula for success in the emerging digital economy.

 

[see5harp]

if a bunch of starving artists got together and said "this is our new streaming service" how many people would even pay attention?

I'm not even saying that the lay-offs are out of the ordinary. The company might be just cleaning house. As far as the service goes they are actively trying to sell the service as a high quality more expensive alternative while simultaneously trying to get music lovers to sympathize with the plight of the uber successful. Who gives a fuck what these millionaires want? I want a small concert that isn't sponsored by a credit card company. The only band on the stage worth any respect or sympathy is Arcade Fire.

 

[riotous]

I'm not even saying that the lay-offs are out of the ordinary. The company might be just cleaning house. As far as the service goes they are actively trying to sell the service as a high quality more expensive alternative while simultaneously trying to get music lovers to sympathize with the plight of the uber successful. Who gives a fuck what these millionaires want? I want a small concert that isn't sponsored by a credit card company. The only band on the stage worth any respect or sympathy is Arcade Fire.

It's not exactly a fair consumer landscape; one of the main excuses I've heard used for music piracy is that the artists don't get the money from album sales anyways.

Which really was just an excuse.. people pirate because it's free and easy and people are greedy.. but it's not like Jay-Z got this idea that people care about artists getting money from thin air.. just hollow air.

 

[kirby_fox]

For the record, Tidal has been around since 2014 and was acquired by Jay-Z earlier this year after his company took over the parent company Aspiro which has been around since 1998.

The marketing tactic they used looked to be something that's not necessarily true- Jay-Z likely owns this through his company and the others may own stock or something. It was all just a show so people would become subscribers.

This was likely something planned for awhile and not necessarily indicative of how the company is doing.

 

[Pavaloo]

I'm not even saying that the lay-offs are out of the ordinary. The company might be just cleaning house. As far as the service goes they are actively trying to sell the service as a high quality more expensive alternative while simultaneously trying to get music lovers to sympathize with the plight of the uber successful. Who gives a fuck what these millionaires want? I want a small concert that isn't sponsored by a credit card company. The only band on the stage worth any respect or sympathy is Arcade Fire.

Bands like Arcade Fire or musicians like Deadmau5 wouldn't be involved if it was just another attempt at the rich getting richer or the greedy getting greedier. If you respect Arcade Fire like you say, wouldn't you care about their opinion on the landscape of the industry? They're trying to change the landscape of music for the next generation of artists. The things they say about Spotify's service are the same things Trent Reznor used to say in 2011, Thom Yorke and Nigel Godrich would say in 2012-13, etc. The only people that would be able to make an impact would be the big musicians, and seeing most of the top in their genres come together for the same cause is telling. While I agree they need to work on finding competitive prices with Spotify, I understand also how hard it is to compete with a 'free' service.

 

[riotous]

The marketing tactic they used looked to be something that's not necessarily true- Jay-Z likely owns this through his company and the others may own stock or something. I

Owning stock IS owning part of the company. That's what stocks are.

 

[Raistlin]

Might as well shut her down. If the business plan was such that it needed to have serious subscribership within the first month to be viable or immediately start laying off people, it's hard to have any faith they were in this for the long-haul.

This is the sort of business plan that would be laughed off of Shark Tank. I can't believe how many big names in the industry got involved. Or maybe I should. They must have assumed their name recognition was so good that it would transcend any practical business realities.


This must be a pretty major kick to their egos.

 

[Guevara]

Jay Z's company bough Aspiro, a streaming media company. Andy Chen was the CEO of Aspiro.

Isn't laying off original employees an incredibly normal aspect of acquiring another company?

Here's the thing; you usually get your ducks in a row before the big, (weird) public relaunch.

If Jay-Z had done this a month ago no one would have noticed.

 

[riotous]

Here's the thing; you usually get your ducks in a row before the big, (weird) public relaunch.

If Jay-Z had done this a month ago no one would have noticed.

Well if I'm reading correctly it took a month to merge Aspiro's streaming service with the new Tidal once it launched (their's was called WiMP.)

That seems like the reason why they still had the original Aspiro employees on board.

 

[Slayven]

Damn i expected 3-6 months of floundering.

 

[NotLiquid]

Interesting that the layoffs are only Swedish workers.

 

[The Jackdog]

Good.

They had an opportunity to ACTUALLY make a difference and squander it.

NEVER good when people lose jobs, so i feel bad for those 25. But screw the heads of this venture.

 

[see5harp]

Bands like Arcade Fire or musicians like Deadmau5 wouldn't be involved if it was just another attempt at the rich getting richer or the greedy getting greedier. If you respect Arcade Fire like you say, wouldn't you care about their opinion on the landscape of the industry? They're trying to change the landscape of music for the next generation of artists. The things they say about Spotify's service are the same things Trent Reznor used to say in 2011, Thom Yorke and Nigel Godrich would say in 2012-13, etc. The only people that would be able to make an impact would be the big musicians, and seeing most of the top in their genres come together for the same cause is telling. While I agree they need to work on finding competitive prices with Spotify, I understand also how hard it is to compete with a 'free' service.

I respect Arcade Fire for their music and the way they got there without radio singles and singing and dancing on sports cars buffoonery. None of the people aside from Kanye and Arcade Fire is at the top of anything. They are trying to say stuff that Thom Yorke and Trent Reznor were saying only they are doing it in a completely different manner. This is about money not the viability of being a musician 50 years from now lol.

 

[Pavaloo]

I respect Arcade Fire for their music and the way they got there without radio singles and singing and dancing on sports cars buffoonery. None of the people aside from Kanye and Arcade Fire is at the top of anything. They are trying to say stuff that Thom Yorke and Trent Reznor were saying only they are doing it in a completely different manner. This is about money not the viability of being a musician 50 years from now lol.

well considering they did the exact thing thom yorke and reznor said to do years ago when talking spotify (build a new streaming service from artists/musicians themselves)

these are all artists with extensive back catalogs - the type that actually make bank on spotify because spotify's model doesn't do much for new material, so it really is more about the viability of being a musician going forward, but i won't lie, money is definitely a part of that (how couldn't it be?) they're doing though so that people starting today in the digital space have a better chance of making a living. i assure you coldplay, jay z, madonna, kanye west, daft punk, etc. are not hurting to make a living. that makes you look at it in a more negative light but do you really expect a little nobody artist to make waves on a different platform? it HAS to be someone huge to spearhead the discussion or it won't happen. jay z said from the beginning that if tidal went under but spotify was forced to better compensate their artists to do so - it would be a success.

if you want to talk about old music industry corporate greed and gluttony - spotify reeks of it. except the greed doesn't come in the form of detriment to the user (especially when they're essentially able to make all music free) but the artists who make the music themselves - so because of that you'll never get user support unless you're able to match their $5 a month or free price point tbh cause it doesn't seem like anyone gives a shit about how much musicians make, big or small.

let's agree to disagree lol

 

[lovely ladies]

I'd love to see their subscription numbers.

You would have to guess not very many. I'm probably being generous by saying 95% of the subscribers are on their first month trial.

I actually don't think the service is that bad but it doesn't offer anything new that would sway users who use other streaming services.

 

[Into]

First the Nets (thanks for the picks, assholes) and now Tidal


Jigga lost it -_-

 

[JohnsonUT]

well considering they did the exact thing thom yorke and reznor said to do years ago when talking spotify (build a new streaming service from artists/musicians themselves)

these are all artists with extensive back catalogs - the type that actually make bank on spotify because spotify's model doesn't do much for new material, so it really is more about the viability of being a musician going forward, but i won't lie, money is definitely a part of that (how couldn't it be?)

let's agree to disagree lol

Isn't Reznor working on the Apple service? We will soon see what he actually believes.

 

[Pavaloo]

Isn't Reznor working on the Apple service? We will soon see what he actually believes.

iirc he is a part of beats music with dr dre

so he basically did the same thing

 

[kirby_fox]

Owning stock IS owning part of the company. That's what stocks are.

I misspoke- I meant a majority part of the company like they made it look like. Since they all signed something it looked like they were all equal partners, which I have doubts that's the case. If anything they likely have a small stake in it and are closer to other minority stock owners than the big deal they make it out to be.

 

[see5harp]

Reznor and Radiohead released albums directly to their fans digitally for a price and it was well before Spotify was a thing. In regards to Spotify, Reznor barely touched on the money. It was more about curating how music was presented. Thom Yorke has been vocal but again he talks a lot about In Rainbows which is interacting directly with the consumers. How is the Tidal model in any way different than Spotify besides the money to the artists? To me, the model is much worse for old money artists like those on stage who signed contracts well before streaming was a thing. I can't comprehend how spotify is any worse for emerging artists.

 

[Raistlin]

Bands like Arcade Fire or musicians like Deadmau5 wouldn't be involved if it was just another attempt at the rich getting richer or the greedy getting greedier. If you respect Arcade Fire like you say, wouldn't you care about their opinion on the landscape of the industry? They're trying to change the landscape of music for the next generation of artists. The things they say about Spotify's service are the same things Trent Reznor used to say in 2011, Thom Yorke and Nigel Godrich would say in 2012-13, etc. The only people that would be able to make an impact would be the big musicians, and seeing most of the top in their genres come together for the same cause is telling. While I agree they need to work on finding competitive prices with Spotify, I understand also how hard it is to compete with a 'free' service.

Let's say the people you cite are really in it for the right reasons, the problem is the other musicians involved. People are far to cynical to believe the others have good intentions.

As far as pricing, even if we disregard the lack of a free service and drop the uncompressed, we're left with a service that costs the same as Spotify but has less content. I'm not sure how they can avoid that coming off as a good-ol'-boys club where the big names are intentionally crowing out smaller acts in order to maintain higher personal payouts. And that's before considering the model seems to have been advertised as giving a smaller cut to labels. It basically all ends up looking like a money grab by a group of extremely wealthy artists.

When you're trying to jump into an already established sector, pricing, features, and perception are all important. You have to hit on at least one if not two to be successful. For them, I don't see how they can fix the perception issue, and they're obviously not standing out in terms of price. For features they have uncompressed, but that doesn't seem to be a draw with a sizable population, and it comes with an absence of a free service. They just aren't competitive on any pillar.

 

[Frosty Droid]

Artists who criticized Tidal will come out of this looking pretty good.

 

[ThLunarian]

As someone who is unaware of what's happening in the music industry, I thought Jay Z was supposed to be a savvy business man. Maybe that only applies to running a record label?

 

[Pavaloo]

I don't disagree entirely. I'm not even a tidal subscriber, they definitely need to price competitively and make service worth switching over for. I just don't have any problems with their intent. It's the exact same message for years now from completely different artists, couldn't be coincidence. Even less interested in scape goats.


In fact Thom's methods have been my favorite so far: selling directly from bittorrent for cheap

 

[JohnsonUT]

Another thought...if it is not all about money, I would love to see Tidal articulate how it is different.

Here are some free ideas for Tidal that would allow me to believe them:

1) A progressive payout system where you get less money per listen as the number of listens grows. For example (simple math): Jay-Z with his millions of plays gets $0.0001 per listen and struggling artist X with only thousands of listens gets $0.0002 per listen. This would truly benefit struggling artists more. This would be a form of "wealth distribution" in the music world.

2) Somehow highlight good, but struggling artists via something like Steam's greenlight. Though I am cynical that this would not be used as a marketing scheme for labels.

3) Big name artists on Tidal are encouraged give back via collaboration or mentoring others (like x-factor).



Here are some ways that lead me to not believe Tidal:

1) Copy Spotify in most ways except remove the free streaming option and add a hi-fidelity option that most users don't care about or simply cannot use because of data plans.

 

[RP912]

Poor Hov been taking L's since Holy Grail :/.

 

[see5harp]

Jay-Z had an exclusive Samsung galaxy app and then somehow bamboozles white people into watching him rap Picasso Baby in an art gallery for 5 hours. He's absolutely concerned about the well being of emerging artists.

 

[Jamie OD]

Wasn't this announced less than a month ago?

That was the relaunch. The service already existed for a year before JayZ and co took over.

 

[Beant]

I 100% think their exit plan is to get acquired by Apple.

 

[ito007]

As someone who supported and has been a subscriber of Tidal because of its appeal to audiophiles, the changes at hand are worrisome.

I actually think this service can be successful if they sold it with that tagline. instead of "hey we are wealthy artists that are going to fight for our right to your money" it should have almost exclusively been, "hey we are a new service that wants to get you premium quality sound you deserve" and have it be endorsed by some indy artists to make it seem legit. I don't know if it would blow up necessarily, but I think it would have been better. Everything about their campaign is just messed up to me.

 

[entremet]

Here's the thing; you usually get your ducks in a row before the big, (weird) public relaunch.

If Jay-Z had done this a month ago no one would have noticed.

This doesn't really mean that much though. Happens a lot in acquisitions.

 

[braves01]

If you're having management problems I feel bad for you son, I got 99 problems but executive turmoil ain't one.

 

[nasax]

Tidal gets the grease stains off my shirt.

 

[E the Shaggy]

But what of Madonna??

 

[ReturnOfTheRAT]

Streaming music service has ignited a conversation. Well ok.

 

[ito007]

But what of Madonna??

wtf where is this from?

 

[Alienous]

As the tide rises, people drown.

 

[Pavaloo]

wtf where is this from?

Looks like tidal signing lol. Draft punk behind her

 

[ReturnOfTheRAT]

wtf where is this from?

That big announcement of there's apparently. First time I'm seeing it myself. I'll have to check out the full vid.

 

[xxracerxx]

wtf where is this from?

The amazing Tidal stream.

 

[hydruxo]

I just don't see Tidal being able to compete with Spotify when they don't offer a free version of it, the price is off putting

 

[maquiladora]

Tidal is basically a solution in search of a problem no one had backed by an insanely pathetic top-down attempt to elbow its way into the market. It's the exact opposite of the formula for success in the emerging digital economy.

All that needs to be said.

 

[ito007]

Looks like tidal signing lol. Draft punk behind her

That big announcement of there's apparently. First time I'm seeing it myself. I'll have to check out the full vid.

The amazing Tidal stream.

unbelievable. I thought this was going to be pretentious, but this is a little out there. like I wonder if anybody actually watched this going, "wow music will never be the same." feels so forced. can't believe I'm getting riled up over this but I am. saving that gif for sure though

 

[YoungHav]

If Tidal puts Spotify out of business I'm going to be pissed. I just got the app for PS3.

 

[Frank Serpico]

First the Nets (thanks for the picks, assholes) and now Tidal


Jigga lost it -_-

huh?

do you think Jay had any influence on basketball operations? lol

 

[RumblingRosco]

wtf where is this from?

Enjoy.

11:45 for the Madonna clip.

Fun drinking game: Take a drink everytime someone says "art" or "artist" and you'll get fucked up in no time.

 

[Kikujiro]

They should fire the marketing company too, the ad campaign was so obnoxious, you're multi-millioners trying to sell your business, you aren't saving the world.

 

[dbztrk]

wtf where is this from?

The very over the top display of self-importance at the Tidal launch. And Jay probably wonders why this service is not going over well with the public.

 

[entremet]

If Tidal puts Spotify out of business I'm going to be pissed. I just got the app for PS3.

That won't happen.

 

[kulapik]

I got this email from Tidal the other day

I don't think they even know what they want to do with the service