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[Trojita]

Can someone name one single bad thing about Obama-Care?

Thanks to it, I was able to have health insurance this past year where I otherwise would have nothing.

Thanks Obama!

I'm still trying to figure out exactly what was responsible for my organizations health care changes.

A lot of people here are blaming Obamacare, but I'm guessing it was likely due to the organization and insurance figuring that it was a good time to fuck over workers and be able to deflect the blame to Obamacare.

We used to have $20 deductibles for doctor's visits. That's gone. We used to have smaller deductibles for procedures that once meant would mean we would only pay 20% after that. Medicine used to have small deductibles too.

Instead we pay EVERYTHING full price until we pay a deductible which ranges from $1700-$4000+. After that everything finally becomes 20% until we finally reach the max deductible which ranges from $5200-10000+.

In order to even pay for our stuff now reasonably you have to use a HSA account which will give you money at the beginning of the year to use. Of course if you don't use all of it you lose it (There is currently a provision in there that will allow you to pass on $500 to next year, but I don't know if it is permanent). The HSA account service is also very annoying to deal with because they'll audit pretty much every transaction and require paperwork.

The benefits were that we had "more money" not taken away in our paycheck, but that happens anyway becuase of the reliance and gamble using the HSA.

 

[Blader]

OP failed to quote the important bit.

That's some extremely selective quoting there. You had to skip over this:

"I have no doubt that premiums in the individual market would be lower under Bush's plan, mainly because there would be less regulation of the benefits those plans have to offer," said Larry Leavitt, co-executive director of the Kaiser Family Foundation's Program for the Study of Health Reform and Private Insurance.

Bush's plan gets rid of the requirement that plans cover certain things (Obamacare's "essential health benefits"), like maternal care and mental health. Rather, it encourages so-called "catastrophic" health insurance plans — bare-bones plans that protect people in expensive emergency situations. Those plans tend to not only have lower premiums but also higher deductibles.

"Bush emphasizes high-deductible plans and [health savings accounts] and wants to encourage those plans. High deductibles do discourage people from using services and lead to lower health spending overall," Leavitt said.

And then stop reading before all of this:

But there are a lot of "buts" to tack on here. For one, there's still a lot we don't know — for example, how much the plan might cut spending on low-income Americans' health care, as well as how much those new tax credits would cost compared to what's in place right now.

Another thing to consider is where that cost-cutting comes from — is lower-cost health insurance always better, or is it at some point detrimental to customers?

Bush's policies would curb cost growth to an extent, said Sabrina Corlette, senior research fellow at Georgetown's Health Policy Institute, but she added a caveat: "I would note that they do so on the backs of consumers, rather than tackling some of the more thorny issues such as how we pay providers and suppliers."

Moreover, Fendrick said, focusing too intently on costs might be wrongheaded.

"I did not go to medical school to learn how to save people money," he said. "So when the first question always is whether we should save money on health care or not, that is largely irrelevant to the bigger question of whether this would make people healthier or not. ... My answer is probably not."

 

[Big Green Anus]

What is Trump's stance with regards to Health care? This plan does not sound good for lower-income families and I wonder if Trump would go against Bush, which is his nemesis.

 

[popeutlal]

HSAs are great for young people but if you're elderly, pregnant or have a chronic illness, your options are: become rich or don't get medical care.

 

[reggieandTFE]

Health Savings Account are an insane vehicle that only benefit private insurers and the independently wealthy.

I'm 33, have never smoked a cigarette, have a BMI around 22.5 and have no pre-existing health conditions.

Seven years ago, I shattered my hip in a fluke sledding accident and spent a week in the ICU. My insurance ended up paying $140,000 to the hospital, doctors, x-ray techs, rehab workers, etc. Even if I had a great Health Savings Account at the time, I would still be paying off that bill.

 

[VanWinkle]

Fuck over the middle class.

And the poors.

And requiring people to buy health insurance or else get a hefty fine isn't? I don't want insurance right now, but I have to buy some cheap crappy plan that's basically nothing just so I don't have to get charged a huge fine during tax filing.

I'm definitely all for tax credits, but I don't think you should be required to buy insurance.

 

[JaggedSac]

Can someone name one single bad thing about Obama-Care?

Thanks to it, I was able to have health insurance this past year where I otherwise would have nothing.

Thanks Obama!

Well, premiums did rise larger than normal this last year. But that was due to people with known conditions now getting insurance, and also, people that are forced to get health insurance are now going to the doctor to take care of themselves. Thus using more money from the insurance premium pool. These are not bad things though since people should take care of themselves and if they do have issues, they should have the capability to get them taken care of.

 

[Gentleman Jack]

Repeal Obamacare, providing its 17 million participants a "transition plan" away from the program.

Give people tax credits to buy catastrophic health care plans.

Replace the so-called "Cadillac Tax," albeit with a policy similarly imposing higher taxes on expensive health plans.

Allow some businesses to contribute toward their workers' health insurance, in lieu of providing that coverage themselves.

Eliminate the benefits the ACA requires health plans to provide.

Increase the maximum amount that people can contribute to their health savings accounts from $3,350 to $6,650.

Cap federal health spending to states, creating what appears to be a block grant-like Medicaid program.

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

 

[DragonSworne]

I'm still trying to figure out exactly what was responsible for my organizations health care changes.

A lot of people here are blaming Obamacare, but I'm guessing it was likely due to the organization and insurance figuring that it was a good time to fuck over workers and be able to deflect the blame to Obamacare.

We used to have $20 deductibles for doctor's visits. That's gone. We used to have smaller deductibles for procedures that once meant would mean we would only pay 20% after that. Medicine used to have small deductibles too.

Instead we pay EVERYTHING full price until we pay a deductible which ranges from $1700-$4000+. After that everything finally becomes 20% until we finally reach the max deductible which ranges from $5200-10000+.

In order to even pay for our stuff now reasonably you have to use a HSA account which will give you money at the beginning of the year to use. Of course if you don't use all of it you lose it (There is currently a provision in there that will allow you to pass on $500 to next year, but I don't know if it is permanent). The HSA account service is also very annoying to deal with because they'll audit pretty much every transaction and require paperwork.

The benefits were that we had "more money" not taken away in our paycheck, but that happens anyway becuase of the reliance and gamble using the HSA.

Is your healthcare plan through Cigna by any chance?

 

[Zophar]

Republicans really don't have any ideas. This is in no way more advantageous than what we currently have.

 

[Butts-a-plenty]

Yup HSAs aren't a bad way to go to save money if you don't need health care on the reg but still want something in case things go south. I have routine eye issues to sort out so it was better for me to go with a more traditional plan.

Young people get cancer and have debilitating injuries as well. I don't know how something can go through life thinking they won't need actual health insurance. A single broken leg will wipe out an HSA.

 

[uncelestial]

I don't even understand the moral system of someone who proposes ideas like this.

 

[Lambtron]

Young people get cancer and have debilitating injuries as well. I don't know how something can go through life thinking they won't need actual health insurance. A single broken leg will wipe out an HSA.

But what's important is that they have the American Liberty to not have health insurance and be bankrupted by medical bills. That's truly what Makes America Great.

 

[vas_a_morir]

Surprise surprise. It's too late, Jeb. Ain't no going back.

 

[Trojita]

Is your healthcare plan through Cigna by any chance?

No, one of their competitors.

 

[massivekettle]

Republicans really don't have any ideas. This is in no way more advantageous than what we currently have.

What you have isn't free, though. It's just being subsidized by a small subset of the population.

 

[Vanillalite]

And requiring people to buy health insurance or else get a hefty fine isn't? I don't want insurance right now, but I have to buy some cheap crappy plan that's basically nothing just so I don't have to get charged a huge fine during tax filing.

I'm definitely all for tax credits, but I don't think you should be required to buy insurance.

You NEVER KNOW when you will need insurance. That's the thing. People want to go yolo I'm good for now. The system can't work if people only pay in when they think they are gonna need it.

That being said I'm still not sold on the ACA really curbing costs. Sure it has things so my rates can't keep going up and stuff like the 80/20 rule. I'm just not totally sold it helps with the already high cost of care. Plus while it helps with pre-existing conditions getting a chance to buy care unlike Jeb's plan it doesn't say that the insurance will be cheap/affordable especially if you are in the middle class zone where you don't qualify for a ton of subsidies.

We need single payer to really deal with costs.

 

[Fuzzery]

We'll call it "Jeb Doesn't"-Care

"Stuff happens deal with it" plan

 

[Lambtron]

What you have isn't free, though. It's just being subsidized by a small subset of the population.

Holy shit. You do realize that healthcare costs for people who, say, had to go to emergency care and didn't have the means to pay were passed along to the rest of the citizenry, right?

Seriously, though. Single payer is where we need to head if we're ever going to cut down on medical costs.

 

[uncelestial]

What you have isn't free, though. It's just being subsidized by a small subset of the population.

Can you explain why you think this poster is getting subsidies under ACA and what you think the income celing is for getting such subsidies?

 

[KHarvey16]

What you have isn't free, though. It's just being subsidized by a small subset of the population.

The "small subset" that pays healthcare costs and/or taxes.

 

[Somnid]

And requiring people to buy health insurance or else get a hefty fine isn't? I don't want insurance right now, but I have to buy some cheap crappy plan that's basically nothing just so I don't have to get charged a huge fine during tax filing.

I'm definitely all for tax credits, but I don't think you should be required to buy insurance.

Most supporters of Obamacare would prefer that it become a single payer system, but we couldn't get there in one jump so we need to keep pushing. So for now you need insurance. The penalty is to push you into getting insurance. Nobody chooses to have terrible accidents and in the end nobody wants to see you screwed over because you didn't get insurance, nor do they want to be on the hook for that bill which gets deflected to other patents by hospitals anyway.

 

[Earthstrike]

https://obamacare.net/problems-with-obamacare/

Lol, they took the obamacare.net domain and tried to make the page look official.

 

[Doctor Doom]

But what's important is that they have the American Liberty to not have health insurance and be bankrupted by medical bills. That's truly what Makes America Great.

Especially the deluded young that think of themselves as invincible and nothing bad can happen to them.

 

[Johndoey]

OP failed to quote the important bit.

It doesn't really matter if its cheaper, the important thing is the effectiveness of the plan when it comes to the actual care provided. That quote is not the endorsement of the plan you seem to think it is.

And requiring people to buy health insurance or else get a hefty fine isn't? I don't want insurance right now, but I have to buy some cheap crappy plan that's basically nothing just so I don't have to get charged a huge fine during tax filing.

I'm definitely all for tax credits, but I don't think you should be required to buy insurance.

No offense but your personal feelings on insurance are just about meaningless when it comes to enacting wide-spread effective legislation. Somebody will always get shafted; live with it.

 

[Pai Pai Master]

I don't even understand the moral system of someone who proposes ideas like this.

Who said anything about morals? This is the Republican primary we're talking about.

 

[Fenderputty]

Lower health spending by removing essential health benefits and discouraging people from using health services due to high deductibles. This is something to be proud of?

Apparently to ksharp it is.

 

[WedgeX]

BushCare

BushLeagueCare is perhaps more apt.

 

[The Jackdog]

can someone more versed in insurance and healthcare tell me the negatives of bush's compared to obamacare right now?

or at least compare the two or something? All im reading from this thread is ITS BAD.

I have no idea if it is or isnt

 

[ronito]

again the problem with the healthcare is the system, not who pays for it.

 

[IDKAboutThat]

Gotta admit, if he's interested in actually getting elected as the president of the United States, this is the best thing he could do. Create a plan most people don't understand that massively benefits the vast majority of the people who can actually get him elected while quietly fucking over the silent majority.

Politics!

 

[GhaleonEB]

I credit Jeb! for actually putting out a plan, which is something the GOP in general has refused to do. "Repeal and replace" has always really meant just repeal. I mean, it's a shitty, fuck the poor and middle class plan that is to be expected, but at least it's something.

Pulling subsidies and raising the HSA limit isn't going to help the people that need help, but that's clearly not the intent.

 

[Vanillalite]

can someone more versed in insurance and healthcare tell me the negatives of bush's compared to obamacare right now?

or at least compare the two or something? All im reading from this thread is ITS BAD.

I have no idea if it is or isnt

HSAs generally don't work.

You'd lose things Obamacare has like coverage for pre-existing conditions, mental health, and mandatory yearly physicals.

You'd lose the 80/20 Rule

The 80/20 Rule generally requires insurance companies to spend at least 80% of the money they take in on premiums on your health care and quality improvement activities instead of administrative, overhead, and marketing costs.

You'd lose subsidized care for low income people.

Ect... Ect...

 

[Mr. Giggles]

BushCare

Lol, sounds like a hygienic product for your no-no parts

 

[Carl2282]

Cool so basically reduce coverage, reduce benefit, reduce employers incentive to provide group coverage, double the hsa yearly deductible (does it mention doubling the yearly out of pocket max too?).
What a crock of shit

Also hsa's work, they just aren't that beneficial unless you can use pretax dollars they still suck you basically pay everything unless you have something serious happen in a year. Also banks love hsa accounts since they get to ream account holders with fees

 

[djplaeskool]

Lol, sounds like a hygienic product for your no-no parts

BushCare does not cover Bush-Care.

 

[DragonSworne]

How is this a plan? Doing nothing is better than what Jeb is proposing. This will be worse than pre Obama.

 

[Ponn]

No way, man - it's the best retirement account I own. I put in the max every year and it gets me back about $1100 more on my federal taxes, so basically I have an "immediate" 33% return. I pay my health expenses out of pocket when I have them and leave my HSA to grow.

The rest of his plan is bullcrap, though.

HSA is not a retirement account. You do know if you use anything from your HSA account that is not medical related you get a huge tax penalty on what was used. I would have to check my plan for next year but its been around 30% tax penalty. You are better off putting that money somewhere else if thats what you are planning with it.

Yea, this plan is lacking solid details. Raising the HSA limit stands out big time to me because thats just a green light for insurance companies to raise deductibles even further. Deductibles have been rising well before Obamacare thats why HSA's were first put out to soften the initial blow to people. "well yea your deductibles have risen but here is this HSA thing and see you put YOUR money in it to pay for your deductibles later so its no problem, right" Then companies used it as an excuse to raise premiums on employer funded plans by saying they were contributing a percentage to your HSA each month on match, while getting breaks themselves. Insurance right now is basically catastrophic insurance because no matter what you are paying everything out of pocket till you hit your deductible which for most people with high deductibles nowadays is never. I never liked Obamacare from the start just because it really just put alot people into an already broken system that is beyond the need of getting rid of. We need UHC in this country, bad.

 

[Walter White Walker]

There's a lot of misinformation in this thread about HSA's. An HSA is not a healthcare plan. What it is if you have a high deductible healthcare plan they can offer an HSA to you, which is a medical savings plan. You can use the HSA to pay for your deductible or other medical costs that aren't covered under your healthcare plan, but it's not the healthcare plan itself.
Personally I don't use mine for what it's intended for. I use it as a retirement account and have it invested (except the first $1000 which has to be kept as cash savings). I don't have a lot of medical expenses but when I do I pay for it out of pocket and let my HSA continue to grow. An HSA has a triple tax advantage:

1) Money deposited is on a pre-tax basis

2) Funds may be used for qualified medical expenses without tax liability

3) Investment income is not taxed

I can see why someone wouldn't want a high deductible healthcare plan, but that problem is with the plan and not the HSA.

 

[RustyNails]

It's an insane plan, but we live in an insane world!

 

[aeolist]

the saddest thing about conservative health care plans is that they don't really want a free market system, they want protectionist bullshit that safeguards profits for existing insurance and pharma companies. if they were to advocate for an actual competitive health care market (see something like singapore) we could have an actual discussion about the real merits of right wing vs left wing plans, but this kind of solution goes against the will of their corporate masters and the captured regulatory system they love so much.

 

[Walter White Walker]

HSA is not a retirement account. You do know if you use anything from your HSA account that is not medical related you get a huge tax penalty on what was used. I would have to check my plan for next year but its been around 30% tax penalty. You are better off putting that money somewhere else if thats what you are planning with it.

Yea, this plan is lacking solid details. Raising the HSA limit stands out big time to me because thats just a green light for insurance companies to raise deductibles even further. Deductibles have been rising well before Obamacare thats why HSA's were first put out to soften the initial blow to people. "well yea your deductibles have risen but here is this HSA thing and see you put YOUR money in it to pay for your deductibles later so its no problem, right" Then companies used it as an excuse to raise premiums on employer funded plans by saying they were contributing a percentage to your HSA each month on match, while getting breaks themselves. Insurance right now is basically catastrophic insurance because no matter what you are paying everything out of pocket till you hit your deductible which for most people with high deductibles nowadays is never. I never liked Obamacare from the start just because it really just put alot people into an already broken system that is beyond the need of getting rid of. We need UHC in this country, bad.

Yes it is - at age 65 you can take it out for any reason, not just medical, and there is no penalty.

 

[Furyous]

Can someone name one single bad thing about Obama-Care?

Thanks to it, I was able to have health insurance this past year where I otherwise would have nothing.

Thanks Obama!

I'm saying where's the bad stuff? Sarah Palin prophesied death camps.

Bush's plan sucks for the middle class as well.

A transition plan without specifics is similar to Dubya's war strategy.

Not requiring businesses to provide coverage means businesses won't provide the coverage period.

The same people pushing to cap federal spending are the same ones that support tax cuts to corporations. Something about i.e. the result of these same policies during the Bush administration rub me the wrong way.

 

[Carl2282]

Yes it is - after age 64 you can take it out for any reason, not just medical, and there is no penalty.

What money are you taking out when you're 60 and you have to pay the first 13 grand of your medical expenses per year.
I know it's a sarcastic way of putting it, and hsa's are very situationally beneficial but generally an increase in hsa contribution amount means an increase in out of pocket expenses.

 

[PlayALLtheGames]

Just read the OP, not the article, but at least its SOMETHING as opposed to the time and time and time and time again that republicans have just simply said its bad without providing any real ideas.
.

The main part of this shitty plan has been thrown around ever since the plans for "Obamacare" rolled out: tax credits/vouchers to go buy whatever you want (trying to make it sound appealing by talking about how it puts the control of healthcare back in your hands).

 

[Black Mamba]

I credit Jeb! for actually putting out a plan, which is something the GOP in general has refused to do. "Repeal and replace" has always really meant just repeal. I mean, it's a shitty, fuck the poor and middle class plan that is to be expected, but at least it's something.

Pulling subsidies and raising the HSA limit isn't going to help the people that need help, but that's clearly not the intent.

Why are we crediting him with putting out a "plan." There are no details on the transitional phase. There are no details on the tax credits. There are no details about all the shit repealing the ACA would do in terms of reinbursements with medicare and other things.

The GOP has had this very plan, with some tweaks (tort reform or state lines!) floating in the Congress for years and years. This "plan" isn't anything new. It's essentially the same thing Rubio and Walker have put out, with some modifications. It's the same thing a few guys in the House put out.

There is nothing new here. This isn't even a plan. Stop crediting the GOP with coming up with a plan. The ACA completely altered the insurance industry.

Jeb's "plan" is "undo ACA" and "minor tweaks to previous status quo" and finished with "we'll make up the rest as we go along."


But here's the real plan. Repeal the ACA, do nothing else. Have fun!

 

[Walter White Walker]

What money are you taking out when you're 60 and you have to pay the first 13 grand of your medical expenses per year.
I know it's a sarcastic way of putting it, and hsa's are very situationally beneficial but generally an increase in hsa contribution amount means an increase in out of pocket expenses.

No? There's a cap, currently $3350, in what you can contribute each year. There's no correlation in what you contribute vs. what your out of pocket expenses are.

 

[KingErich]

What is with HSAs? I mean, they'd be great if you hate taxes and know you'll never be sick.

HSA's are a joke. I wish I wouldn't have fell for it a second time. I am in my late 30's relatively healthy. But I spend more money out of pocket now than I ever did on a PPO. My deductible is sky high as well. Never again.

 

[Ponn]

Yes it is - at age 65 you can take it out for any reason, not just medical, and there is no penalty.

You still get hit with taxes though if its not medical related, not the big penalty of course. Plus on top of that who knows what the rules will be in 30-40 years when someones going to retire. I just wouldn't be flaunting it as a retirement plan.

HSA's are a joke. I wish I wouldn't have fell for it a second time. I am in my late 30's relatively healthy. But I spend more money out of pocket now than I ever did on a PPO. My deductible is sky high as well. Never again.

As far as employer funded insurance goes we are quickly getting to the point of you not having a real choice in the matter. I only have one non-HSA ppo plan through my work and its really just as bad with the deductible and for me in my health case reaching the out of pocket maximum. To add insult to injury I technically work for an insurance company.

 

[Carl2282]

No? There's a cap, currently $3350, in what you can contribute each year. There's no correlation in what you contribute vs. what your out of pocket expenses are.

The 13 grand is just an assumption off Jebs proposal. The cap is 3350 currently in network I know on my shit obamacare plan my out of pocket max is 6700 yearly, As you get older and need more care or get screwed by out of network services it seems like you're more likely to be subject to the out of pocket max versus the deductible