Doctor Doom
Banned
Until we have a democrat majority, in house and senate, I think that's going to have a problem going through. But it is only a matter of time.
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Jeb Bush Has A Plan To Replace Obamacare; Here's What's In It
- Thread starter Vanillalite
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Until we have a democrat majority, in house and senate, I think that's going to have a problem going through. But it is only a matter of time.
Walter White Walker
Member
You do have to treat it as normal income when you withdraw, but that's the same as a Traditional IRA. Otherwise who knows what the rules will be regarding anything in 30-40 years for anything including 401ks, IRA's, etc.
I don't like Jeb's proposal at all otherwise one bit, but I'd gladly take the HSA annual contribution increase. The rest of it he can screw off with, though.
I'll just leave these links as articles about using an HSA as a retirement account:
http://blogs.reuters.com/shaneferro/2013/07/18/hsas-when-your-health-insurance-becomes-a-retirement-account/
http://www.forbes.com/sites/ashleaebeling/2011/11/21/the-most-tax-savvy-use-of-a-health-savings-account/
Bullshit. Your naive if you think Dem's aren't in the insurance companies pockets like the Republicans. Maybe not as many but enough that it will never happen.
Might as well post the whole thing then...
So yeah, your plan might be cheaper month-to-month if you have a heart attack, but how about those Dr.'s visits to check your blood pressure and prevent the heart attack from happening? Reactive healthcare is ridiculous and has shown to increase healthcare costs overall vs preventative medicine.
Aaron Strife
Banned
Yeah you know what else would lower healthcare costs? Repealing Medicare and Medicaid. Let's just do that, fuck the poor disabled and elderly.
Doc Holliday
SPOILER: Columbus finds America
Hey my mom was able to get insurance. My cousin is 24 and he had brain tumor which was covered because his mom had insurance under obamacare. I'm sorry I can't see why did this ain't a step in the right direction. I probably did get screwed a bit because I can afford to get healthcare but fuck how can I bitch when I know it's helping people that really need it?
That's what it took to get Obamacare passed in the first place and they've been sniping it ever since. It's actually more of a slow change in public perception, getting stupid people to utilize it and realize they are better off.
Generally you have an HSA plus insurance benefits. Such as myself. It is 80/20 after $1500 yearly deductible with an out of pocket max I don't recall. I pay a $12 a month premium and put money into my HSA every month. This works out much better for me than the Traditional PPO that I had.
Aaron Strife
Banned
You're naive if you don't recognize that there's a substantial difference between the Democrats and Republicans on this issue (and many others). Yes, Obamacare is imperfect. But it's a huge leap over what we had and a step towards universal healthcare. This isn't the sort of thing that will happen overnight. I don't think any Democrat (Obama included) proposed Obamacare as an end-all be-all solution.
But yeah fuck it both parties are the same right
the 80/20 rule in this case refers to the part of the ACA that forces insurance companies to spend at least 80% of their corporate revenue on actual health care
Doctor Doom
Banned
If you survive your heart attack, that is, those who don't take preventive care of themselves, might as well consider themselves disposable.
Ring me from the grave when UHC is passed.
Doctor Doom
Banned
The fall of the republican party is likely to occur in at most a few decades as minorities grow in power.
Aaron Strife
Banned
I'm not saying it'll get passed anytime soon but it sounds to me like you're mad that Obama didn't just start flipping tables like "FUCK YOU, SINGLE PAYER" against a very tentative Senate majority that was strangled by the filibuster as well as literally every insurance company on the planet. (Note that they hate this supposed corporate handout. Wonder why)
I think next time there's a full Dem Congress there will be a serious movement to implement a public option or a Medicare expansion and that we'll get it. Universal? No. But closer. In fact expanding Medicare would probably be the best thing to do towards getting us on a single-payer system since it already is one, just for a specific group of people.
Omegasquash
Member
The problem I foresee with the whole "catastrophic" thing is who controls what's catastrophic and what isn't.
Butts-a-plenty
Banned
The ACA(Obamacare) is intended to be UHC. UHC doesn't refer to single payer, which is a mistake you appear to be making. There are several route to UHC. The ACA is similar to the Swiss system of compulsory health care requirements for all citizens. The supreme court ruling hurt the effectiveness but the US system is designed to be universal.
Seniors are covered by Medicare.
People can get coverage through their jobs. If their job doesn't offer coverage they can get coverage through the exchange and get subsidies if they make below a certain level to help pay for it.
People below the subsidy range, disabled people, unemployed can be covered by Medicaid(in states that expanded it).
CHIP covers children.
UHC isn't a single piece of legislation. It refers to universal coverage. The ACA imposes the individual mandate to get to universal coverage and provides for a variety of routes to gain coverage. They can't impose more than a fine to get you to take avail of one of those route but by design it was intended to provide universal coverage options.
$1500. Your lucky, I have to cough up $3000.00 before my insurance pays a dime. That's on top of the $80 I pay per month in premiums. In addition we have a $6000.00 out of pocket limit for individual!
I miss the old days of $20 copays, $4-$15 prescriptions and employers that paid 80%-100% for the employee and covering spouse/family.
Team Alucard
Banned
The GOP's plan on healthcare:
"walk it off"
"walk it off"
"We'll get 'em next time we have a majority, or maybe the next time after that" The Dem/liberal mantra. Whatever, like I said, ring me when it happens.
I do hate when people bring up Medicare as the model for a single-payer system or something to go to. It tells me there is a LOT of people who don't know how horrible medicare is or how it works. As many times as i've sat with people crying on the phone the first of the year after they first get medicare or when they hit their donut hole it really doesn't surprise me that people aren't aware of how medicare works. There is a reason you have old people going without food in the month in lieu of medications. There is a reason you still have insurance premiums and supplemental insurance plans with medicare. I suggest people who think medicare is an option to ask someone how their medicare works and maybe take a look at their plans. If anything Medicaid would be a better option but really id rather have something better than either of those.
balladofwindfishes
Member
I was surprised when my parents said my company's insurance paying 75% of it with stuff like 25 dollar co-pays and 10 dollar prescriptions was some kind of unicorn.
Turns out it actually is some kind of unicorn...
Which really is a shame. Went to the dentist today, handed them my card, got my teeth cleaned and left without a care. If I get sick, at most I'd be paying like 400 dollars.
I wish everyone had my insurance
Especially my parents. They have medicaid right now, and don't really know what they'll do once my dad starts making over the medicaid cap again.
Just curious, are those out of network amounts? And is that an HSA based plan?
This. I've never heard of people just using an HSA, it's supposed to complement your health insurance to help out with deductibles. By putting the minimum amount into my HSA, my company adds an extra $500 in one payment every 6 months.
It essentially functions as a 100% return on my investment ($1000 in per year, company matches $1000 per year) with the caveat that the money is only used for medical expenses.
Makes sense rich can have more children and live longer better lives. Then the poor die.
After that only the rich remain to rule the earth.
Vanillalite
Ask me about the GAF Notebook
76% of Americans live pay check to pay check
CNN Money
Plus until you use that money your cash you are putting into the HSA isn't going into the healthcare pool. It's just going into an investment pool. The thing is we need that money in the actual healthcare pool as in theory we need everyone paying in as much as possible to cover everything.*
*I get you are paying in via your insurance plan but that's usually just a low cost high deductible catastrophic plan
radioactivez0r
Member
And if we're gonna cut spending, the first thing to go should be people's health amirite?
And pre-tax as well.
GiantEnemyGoomba
Member
just rub some dirt on it and you'll be fine
Angelus Errare
Banned
Vote Jeb! bruhs.
uncelestial
Member
HSAs are a morally indefensible solution to our healthcare system that strengthens the tie between access to basic/preventative medical care and your personal means/wealth. Bully for you if you view it as some kind of investment vehicle, but it is not an acceptable baseline for health care access in a first world country.
Veritigo_X
Member
And there are Bernie supporters out there that would rather this guy be president over Clinton. Funny stuff.
killdatninja
Banned
Not understanding the hate for HSA's, if you're young, start one up (first year is difficult). You can still use the money in the account later if you decide to change to a PPO. My worst case scenario for my HSA/HDHP is $5,000 (per year out of pocket), I already have that after 2 years. If you have an existing medical issue or take prescriptions/medication, then yeah HSA's suck. But for someone who's relatively healthy and rarely goes to the doctor, HSA's are great. Sure the copay is high ($80 doctors visit, $120 emergency care)... but the PPO premium (monthly somehwere between $10-$80 from what I've seen) + copay (usually around $20-$50), the difference isn't that much considering the interest earned from the HSA, makes things just about even for me.
On-topic: This is not the way to go for health care Jeb...
On-topic: This is not the way to go for health care Jeb...
Can you show me one? I find it hard to believe any would actually stick to their guns when faced with the alternative.
Back on topic, our healthcare system is still far from perfect but at least we are catching these uninsured people quicker in states with Obamacare. It is a shame we can't take it a step further to gain better data to ensure the health and well being of Americans.
Veritigo_X
Member
I'm talking more about the independents that support Sanders, definitely not anywhere near the majority. I saw this type of rhetoric in the debate thread. More than likely they'll just not vote if Hillary gets the nomination.
Future PhaZe
Member
that's a really generous HSA
my company offers that same plan with the deductible at around 3-4k, except its 100% coverage after that, not 80%, though my company does contribute some 500 dollars a year towards this
it ends up mostly being fine so long as you don't have anything even remotely costly as far as diagnostic care done. The average cost of an MRI is some 2500 dollars, and it doesn't really take much to need to get one. That'd have to come completely out of pocket.
I've had some stomach issues of late that might require a colonoscopy to check out--but I'm avoiding it because I'm sure it'd be an instant price to my deductible. And it's sad, to be in a situation where I'm insured but afraid to actually discuss issues with my doctor because I don't want to be pushed into high cost diagnostic work.
Jeb (and the GOP) haven't figured out this basic truth- the genie can't go back into the bottle. The genie being the ACA. It's flawed but has provided too many benefits and extended health coverage to Americans who would be without it otherwise. Actually, the next step is some kind of single-payer/UHC deal. It's coming, maybe not in five years, but in ten or twenty for sure. Once more of the generation raised with politicians screaming at them about the evils of socialism die off, younger Americans are going to seriously wonder what's unique about every other major country, that they can offer universal health care, but that America, rich as she is cannot.
Yeah, that's crazy, man. I support Sanders but even the worst Democratic presidential candidate is leagues better than Jeb!.
Yeah, that's crazy, man. I support Sanders but even the worst Democratic presidential candidate is leagues better than Jeb!.
I am a man of immense unfaith, but this is something I'd literally pray to see happen.
fixedpoint
Member
I sure hope so. If not for Joe Lieberman's parting gift to his most special favoritest constituents, the 'public option' would have been part of the Affordable Care Act.
Jailer of Hope
Member
But you're not talking about HSA right? Just the coverage?
Edit: oh I see the employer contribution now. I guess I'm lucky I get a matching contribution up to 1k a year.
blitzkrieg184
Neo Member
I seriously don't know why they don't just copy Canada's health care.
I think it will. The original Social Security Act did not include disability insurance. It was expanded to include that. Americans will ultimately like the ACA and want it expanded, I think. I hope.
In Network. Out of Network is double that. Our plan through Cigna SUCKS! It is a HSA.
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