Job-Age: Offer received, pay is so-so. What are my options?

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Zombie James

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So I had myself an interview last week and I guess it went pretty well because I received a job offer today. The only problem is the pay is lower than what I mentioned during the interview, and way lower than the industry average for the position. I have no interest in turning down the offer, but what can I do at this point when it comes to discussing salary? Is it something that's negotiable at this stage?
 
Zombie James said:
So I had myself an interview last week and I guess it went pretty well because I received a job offer today. The only problem is the pay is lower than what I mentioned during the interview, and way lower than the industry average for the position. I have no interest in turning down the offer, but what can I do at this point when it comes to discussing salary? Is it something that's negotiable at this stage?
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First job out of school, or just a job change period?

If it's the former, I wouldn't do too much complaining. If it's the latter, I'd definitely bring it up in some way without sounding super aggressive.
 
Smokey said:
First job out of school, or just a job change period?

If it's the former, I wouldn't do too much complaining. If it's the latter, I'd definitely bring it up in some way without sounding super aggressive.
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Yeah, it's the latter. I don't want to come off sounding like a dick, though. Anyone else been in this situation?
 
Zombie James said:
Yeah, it's the latter. I don't want to come off sounding like a dick, though. Anyone else been in this situation?
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You should counter. The worst they can say is"no." Google it for advice.
 
Zombie James said:
Yeah, it's the latter. I don't want to come off sounding like a dick, though. Anyone else been in this situation?
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Yeah, and it sort of blew up on my face. The employer misunderstood what I meant by "ideal salary," and got really pissed off.

The thing is, if you have concerns about salary, the time to bring it up is now. The longer you wait the less serious they're going to take you. Just be tactful and be sure to reinforce that you're still very into the job.
 
Always Counter offer. They lowball you on purpose, especially now because so many weak people go "Wah! the economy! I should just be happy! wah! wah!" and accept anything.
Remember, you raises are based on your starting salary. So if you don't seek a fair salary now it could take several raises just to reach the salary you could be starting with.
 
I took a job at way below industry average about 6 month ago because I was halfway unemployed, no counter offer (was just happy for the work), and I've been kicking myself ever since. Counter - you already have the job in the bag; the worst they can say is no. It's not like they're going to rescind the job offer.
 
So I've heard back about my counter-offer and unfortunately it's not good. They tell me the original offer is all they have on budget for the position and won't budge. Toronto is an expensive city, don't think i'll be able to move out comfortably on the money they're offering...

Blah...
 
Zombie James said:
So I've heard back about my counter-offer and unfortunately it's not good. They tell me the original offer is all they have on budget for the position and won't budge. Toronto is an expensive city, don't think i'll be able to move out comfortably on the money they're offering...

Blah...
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Then don't do it man. Don't intentionally put yourself into a shit position, because you'd just know it's coming and it would only get worse. I did this myself and it fucking sucked for almost two years.
 
Zombie James said:
So I've heard back about my counter-offer and unfortunately it's not good. They tell me the original offer is all they have on budget for the position and won't budge. Toronto is an expensive city, don't think i'll be able to move out comfortably on the money they're offering...

Blah...
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and the destruction of the middle class continues, do you have any more job offers at hand? otherwise there is no choice really... :(
 
bill0527 said:
Take the job, but keep looking.
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This is it. And you need to always be looking for something better while you work and gain new/better skills and titles to enhance your resume. Never get complacent, even when the gig is the sweetest of the sweet - because in this economy, there is no loyalty and shit can disappear quickly and randomly!
 
So, an update. I received the job offer in writing today and it keeps getting not good. On top of the low salary, it's a 45 hour week (not including crunch) and there are zero benefits. I think I'm getting taken for a ride here.
 
Zombie James said:
So, an update. I received the job offer in writing today and it keeps getting not good. On top of the low salary, it's a 45 hour week (not including crunch) and there are zero benefits. I think I'm getting taken for a ride here.
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No benefits?

Fuck that. Seriously.
 
Can I ask what you're in the industry for?

Given what you've said so far, it's starting to sound like hard sell. What're you thinking right now?
 
Darkatomz said:
Can I ask what you're in the industry for?

Given what you've said so far, it's starting to sound like hard sell. What're you thinking right now?
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It's mobile and web development. I need a job but I also need enough money to move the hell out, and not having any benefits is a tough pill to swallow.
 
Zombie James said:
It's mobile and web development. I need a job but I also need enough money to move the hell out, and not having any benefits is a tough pill to swallow.
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Well, you have no other options so you have no other choice. Like others have said, just keep looking. A paycheck is better than nothing.
 
Zombie James said:
It's mobile and web development. I need a job but I also need enough money to move the hell out, and not having any benefits is a tough pill to swallow.
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a development gig that doesn't give benefits? Now I've heard of everything.
 
Ehh...take it and look for another job.

I'm in TO as well, and it's tough to find anything right now...I know :'(

Also looks better on the resume (fucking bullshit policies, beliefs, and theories) that you're working right now while applying for something else. There are just some HR people out there that prefer to hire people who are already working.
 
Kuro Madoushi said:
Ehh...take it and look for another job.

I'm in TO as well, and it's tough to find anything right now...I know :'(

Also looks better on the resume (fucking bullshit policies, beliefs, and theories) that you're working right now while applying for something else. There are just some HR people out there that prefer to hire people who are already working.
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I don't know how I'll be able to find another job while working there when they expect me to work until 6-7pm.
 
Zombie James said:
I don't know how I'll be able to find another job while working there when they expect me to work until 6-7pm.
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Yeah, fuck em. If you're financial situation can support it, keep looking full-time as opposed to trying to deal with this situation. It'll sap your energy and lower your aggressiveness to find another job.
 
Zombie James said:
I don't know how I'll be able to find another job while working there when they expect me to work until 6-7pm.
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Tell them you may need to take some time off every now and then for personal reasons.
Or try to cut your hours a bit, you'll end up with even less money but the way it's looking now it's a temporary gig at best and you'll need some sort of income to keep you going.

Kuro Madoushi said:
There are just some HR people out there that prefer to hire people who are already working.
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This is true. It also really improves your negotiation power.

Just don't tell how little you make at McScrooge & Co ;)
 
Zombie James, are you in Austin, TX?

My company has been hiring for similar positions and the pay is low/no benefits...
 
Depending on your experience, Web development jobs should be fairly easy to come by at a major city; they certainly are in New York. My agency is definitely hiring, we're hiring for remote positions as well btw.
 
When negotiating for a salary, you need to give precise reasons why that are pertaining to your skills and what you bring to the table.

"Your job listing calls for 3 years of experience, but I have 5 as well as a few extra certifications that will help your company tremendously in this position."

I think the budget answer is bullshit...and if it's not, it looks like they're looking for another cog to replace. Yes, sometimes taking a job if the pay is low is the way to go, but at that same time you don't want to completely undervalue yourself.
 
Zombie James said:
So, an update. I received the job offer in writing today and it keeps getting not good. On top of the low salary, it's a 45 hour week (not including crunch) and there are zero benefits. I think I'm getting taken for a ride here.
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No benefits, less pay, and a longer workweek? Sounds like what they told you at the interview is significantly different from what they're offering.

That might be a make-or-break point, but in this environment, they figure you're probably desperate enough. Are you?
 
Usually if a job doesn't offer benefits they should offer a somewhat higher salary so you can pay for your own benefits. The fact that they expect unpaid over time (crunch) on top of all this is just them looking to run you into the ground until you quit.

Unless you're desperate for cash it might be wise to hold out, this sounds like a really bad work environment.
 
At this point I'd just fuck with them and write another counter off for some ridiculous amount, maybe throw a line in there to guilt trip them for giving you such a shitty offer.
 
yea benefits is pretty standard for a full time job like that.

I say walk if you can afford to.
 
Can you take the job yet still stay where you are and save money while looking for a new one? I've never heard of a real full time job that doesn't include benefits..
 
Yeah that changes things if they offer no benefits - assuming that your current job does.

You really don't want to be without health insurance if you can help it.

Especially if you make $30,000+ a year because your income will be above any help you can get from the state to pay your medical bills.

Just one little medical emergency without health insurance and you're bankrupt.
 
I wouldn't take it if you don't think you will be able to look for something better while working there. However, the fact that you have a job currently might help you get hired for a better gig. The decision is tough, good luck.
 
bill0527 said:
Yeah that changes things if they offer no benefits - assuming that your current job does.

You really don't want to be without health insurance if you can help it.

Especially if you make $30,000+ a year because your income will be above any help you can get from the state to pay your medical bills.

Just one little medical emergency without health insurance and you're bankrupt.
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I thought Canadians had socialized healthcare. This job is in Toronto.
 
bill0527 said:
Yeah that changes things if they offer no benefits - assuming that your current job does.

You really don't want to be without health insurance if you can help it.

Especially if you make $30,000+ a year because your income will be above any help you can get from the state to pay your medical bills.

Just one little medical emergency without health insurance and you're bankrupt.
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I'm in Canada, don't have to worry about any of that.

I have a pretty good resume and a good portfolio of my work, I don't really doubt I'll get more interviews in the future, but it would have been nice to get it over with.
 
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