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[Yaboosh]

I like the idea behind the change but my extremely cynical worry is that restaurant prices will increase 25-30%, and the servers still won't make as much as before.

Why do you like the idea behind the change? It is unlikely to save you money and working class folk will likely see a pay decrease.

I honestly don't see an advantage to ditching the tip system.

I don't think your worry is cynical at all, it is inevitable.

 

[amaretto]

Would tip share based job codes like food runner, busser, bartender get hourly too?

I actually don't mind this tbh but my biggest worry is labor. Chains like to have low labor & they want to pay as few people as possible.

 

[HP_Wuvcraft]

People aren't tipping anymore. Its really hard to look at this in any kind of positive light.

I wasted all that time in college and can't get a job in my field now I can't even have a serving job. I'm at the end of my rope. Really hard to see a light at the end of this tunnel.

While I agree with you that it is shitty for the company to be publicizing this before they upgrade your pay, I would highly suggest trying to find the positive instead of always looking at the negative or you'll find yourself in a real dark place. That doesn't mean "stop crying, wussie" or anything, it just means that you shouldn't just give up or shut down emotionally. You got valuable skills in college. You got knowledge. And there are plenty of other jobs out there. This isn't the end of the line. Don't look at things so absolutely, in such a defeatist light.

 

[muteki]

Why do you like the idea behind the change? It is unlikely to save you money and working class folk will likely see a pay decrease.

I honestly don't see an advantage to ditching the tip system.

I don't think your worry is cynical at all, it is inevitable.

I'm an engineer, not an economist, and a simple "pay x" system is in theory more elegant than "pay x+.15~.20*x OR pay x+.30*x IF service == awesome OR pay x+0*x IF asshole == true".

But business are jerks and if they have a reason to up prices 15~20% then they have a reason to up prices 30%.

 

[lednerg]

Joe's strikes me as a place where the servers probably make a killing on tips, constantly dancing around and shit. This is probably going to suck for them.

 

[Woody Invincible]

Exactly how it should be.

 

[Vicetrailia]

Good point, if I were to make an uneducated guess I would think that, no, if you're pulling in approx 1000$ a week it would be a slim chance a pay increase would cover losing that

The payscale for waiting tables has huge variance, even from night to night. The average salary tips included is $19-20k.

 

[Yaboosh]

The payscale for waiting tables has huge variance, even from night to night. The average salary tips included is $19k.

Source? And how many hours?

 

[kirblar]

Interesting, could you elaborate further on the bolded bit.

If you consider the tips part of the money being routed into the business, albeit funds that are immediately re-routed to the staff, you have an issue both from a management perspective as an owner "I can't control where the money is going!" but more broadly, you have an issue with this type of employment being much more lucrative than it should be relative to other similar positions. On a micro-level, this creates an issue where the compensation favors the untrained front of house vs the actual trained/experienced chefs in the back. For similar reasons, it can be sort of a talent drain on a macro-level, since the high $ counts draws people in from the economy who might otherwise be doing something else.

There's a widely reported shortage of cooks, and the current tipping structure is almost certainly a contributing factor in the US, due to the impact it's had on salaries: https://www.google.com/search?q=chef+shortage&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8

 

[Vicetrailia]

Source? And how many hours?

There are sources everywhere bls.gov, payscale.com, etc.

But the average isn't that interesting. For example you're better off working at the Cheesecake factory or Olive Garden (where their avg is 28k) than Chili's (22k, which is in the average range).

 

[LJ11]

The payscale for waiting tables has huge variance, even from night to night. The average salary tips included is $19-20k.

You're right there's definitely variance between shifts. Had a client who couldn't get anyone to work the early hour shifts, they all wanted nights and weekends because the place brought in barrels of cash & tips during those hours. Wanted to be equitable but it was hard, he felt bad for the early shifts. Got so bad he wanted to remove tips altogether, but for the time being he's still with tips, anywhere from 33k-38k per week on tips alone.

 

[Deleted member 284]

Tipping culture won't go down without a fight. I can imagine a scenario where a customer asks for a drink refill and after 5 minutes the waiter still hasn't come back to refill his glass and he says "I bet she hasn't come back because she's not working for a tip so there's no motivation"

When this happens you ask for a manager.

 

[Risible]

Just curious but how do you know it'll be a pay cut if you haven't actually had the change implemented yet? I mean, I get that people aren't tipping anymore and that's a different story but how do you figure the impact on you? Have you guys been told the pay you'll be getting already?

Also, what would you do/plan to do if all restaurants went to this model in the US?

It's literally in the OP. $12-$14 hour. 6 hour shift, at the higher end of that scale he makes $84. After taxes less. It's easy to compute.

 

[BassForever]

Wouldn't an increase in your salary offset not receiving tips?

Isn't that the point of tipping in the first place, that it makes up for the fact that you're being payed very lowly?

Pardon my ignorance, just trying to get a more informed perspective

Tips were meant literally "to insure proper service" not to compensate for being paid a shit base wage.

When this happens you ask for a manager.

You're looking at it the wrong way, if I'm a waitor/waitress trying to get a tip I'm going to go above and beyond to make your dining experience as conveient as possible including quickly responding to the table when everyone has closed their menus, being there the moment your drink finishes to offer a refill, have your food out to you as soon as its ready and remember who gets what, and do that little extra to make your experience memorable. If I'm now in a situation where I won't ever get a tip why would I bother putting in that level of extra effort that my boss who decides my wage is ever going to see? I'll do the minimum to make sure the customer is happy because that's all I have to do.

 

[Risible]

Right now we get decent waiters because you can make a decent living waiting tables.

Once tips are removed and it goes to a fast-food wages style pay scale I'm going to be really curious to see how it impacts the dining experience.

 

[TheWarrior]

Depends on the kind of tips you make. Have several clients I consult with that have employees bringing in 1000-1500 in tips with a 40-50 hour work week. Will their pay increase that much to offset the removal of tips, hard to say. And that's the tips they declare, usually Credit Cards tips since they hit the bank, cash isn't reported for shit, very little of it is anyway. Most good restaurants deal with mostly CCs anyway.

I pay with CC but always tip cash. Just write "cash" on the tip line so no one thinks you are a cheapo.

 

[HarryKS]

Yup.

Anti-tipping people tend to never see the downsides of tipping not being a thing. People who don't know what they're talking about, telling me that I'd be better off if tipping disappeared drives me up the fucking wall.

It works everywhere else in the world though.

 

[FriedConsole]

Doesn't matter to me if I pay the same. If everything goes this way just because we need to be more European like or something, I will be glad because people seem to want to endlessly debate this.

 

[Kenstar]

It works everywhere else in the world though.

No you don't UNDERSTAND no one will do their jobs correctly unless motivated by tips

ignore the entire rests of the workforce in the US and non-tipped waiters all over the world who manage to still do their jobs, US waiters are a uniquely different position

 

[Deleted member 284]

I'll do the minimum to make sure the customer is happy because that's all I have to do.

And you know what? That's fine. If I go out to eat, all I want is to be happy. If you delay service unnecessarily, I won't be happy. If I complain to the manager once and in the future I'm still not happy, I get to vote with my wallet over the establishment. Rather than leaving no tip.

 

[Deadstar]

If a server in a no tip world doesn't do their job well they should be let go, just like they would be for not doing their job in any other situation.

 

[LQX]

Good. And if you paying your rent is solely dependent on how much tips strangers give you then you need to find other work.

 

[lsslave]

They raised prices 15 percent (average tip) but the servers are making less overall. We're literally talking about you just giving more money to the company in these instances...

It's ridiculous how people keep celebrating these when every time it's the house making the cash...

 

[Empyrean Heaven]

Went to Joe's Crab Shack once. Was not impressed. Their crab legs were extremely hard to get the meat out of, the taste was very lacking, and they were ridiculously overpriced.

IMO, if you go to a seafood joint, make sure it's at least 1 mile from a large body of water.

 

[gosox333]

sucks to hear about that person who's making less after this. They really shouldn't have publicly announced this, although I'm sure it would have gone public the second they started explaining the price hike to customers anyway. But still, I emphasize with the disdain.

Unfortunately, as dismissive as it sounds, things will probably get worse before they get better. I mean they will get better if this goes all the way, but I guess the question is will people tolerate the worse long enough to get to the better.

 

[nomster]

Joes Crab Shack is a perfect example of why standard tipping policies don't work. Expensive food with TGIFridays level service and atmosphere. Birthday songs every five minutes in that damn place

 

[HarryKS]

It's also quite hard to empathize with servers or waiters who complain about losing high wages as a result of tipping when they're performing a job a well-trained monkey could do.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KeSQ5Rv7eH8

On a more serious note, the whole idea of servers working on incentives bothers me a lot. Strippers also do that.

 

[gosox333]

On a more serious note, the whole idea of servers working on incentives bothers me a lot. Strippers also do that.

getting paid is an incentive

I do that

 

[way more]

If nothing else this will provide fantastic data on how no-tipping policies across a broad spectrum of cities. Let this experiment run for a year and if has uniform success that will be a great argument for other restaurants to follow suit.

Right now we get decent waiters because you can make a decent living waiting tables.

Once tips are removed and it goes to a fast-food wages style pay scale I'm going to be really curious to see how it impacts the dining experience.

I would go further and say we get very good waiters because it's a job for future professionals who need part time work that pays well. Most servers will have other passions and goals which a waiting job allows them to attain. I do wonder if those types will stick around.

 

[Chocolate Thunder]

There are sources everywhere bls.gov, payscale.com, etc.

But the average isn't that interesting. For example you're better off working at the Cheesecake factory or Olive Garden (where their avg is 28k) than Chili's (22k, which is in the average range).

Anecdotal but I worked as a server for almost a decade from Mom and Pops to 5* need a suit and tie places. I never made less than 40k a year working like 4-5 hrs 3-4 times a week.

This is not good for servers.

 

[poppabk]

You're looking at it the wrong way, if I'm a waitor/waitress trying to get a tip I'm going to go above and beyond to make your dining experience as conveient as possible including quickly responding to the table when everyone has closed their menus, being there the moment your drink finishes to offer a refill, have your food out to you as soon as its ready and remember who gets what, and do that little extra to make your experience memorable. If I'm now in a situation where I won't ever get a tip why would I bother putting in that level of extra effort that my boss who decides my wage is ever going to see? I'll do the minimum to make sure the customer is happy because that's all I have to do.

Study after study have shown that quality of service has little to do with the amount tipped. Removing what are effectively compulsory minimum tips of 15% is likely to reward good servers more than currently happens as I am sure people will still tip for good service.

 

[LJ11]

They raised prices 15 percent (average tip) but the servers are making less overall. We're literally talking about you just giving more money to the company in these instances...

It's ridiculous how people keep celebrating these when every time it's the house making the cash...

The house will always cheat, but their payroll taxes will increase if they remove tips. Right now, restaurants get to claim a tax credit on tips earned above the min wage. They pay FICA tax up front but get it back at the end of the year on tips above the min wage. This can be a pretty big amount for some restaurants, because the wait staff does well, so restaurants are used to getting some of this money back. Won't be able to file for the tax credit if you remove tips, so they'll see a rise in payroll taxes.

 

[McLovin]

Sounds good to me

 

[Bel Marduk]

Well the negative reaction to this among employees at least is the worst ive seen since the xboxone drm debacle. Hopefully the "test" results will be publicized and other restaurants will think twice before doing these sorts of awful things to their employees.

Thanks to all of you whove been supportive in this thread.

 

[Magni]

Good. Hope they also include taxes in the menu prices. What you see is what you pay, in the civilized world.

 

[Bel Marduk]

Good. Hope they also include taxes in the menu prices. What you see is what you pay, in the civilized world.

Don't things cost more in general in Europe? Like significantly more.

I know how often Americans are being accused of ethnocentrism but you guys really show quite a bit of it. Its why most tipping threads are 10+ pages long.

 

[Five]

Well the negative reaction to this among employees at least is the worst ive seen since the xboxone drm debacle. Hopefully the "test" results will be publicized and other restaurants will think twice before doing these sorts of awful things to their employees.

Thanks to all of you whove been supportive in this thread.

Is most of the outcry from employees at stores that haven't actually implemented the change yet, where nothing is coming in to offset the reduced tipping? Or is a significant amount coming from employees who are being compensated? As much as this mixed messaging sucks for you and should have been improved upon, that's not really a strike against the idea of not tipping, just this half-hearted and poorly communicated implementation.

Good. Hope they also include taxes in the menu prices. What you see is what you pay, in the civilized world.

I agree. That should be increasingly easier to do as more menus are becoming digital.

 

[BamfMeat]

Don't things cost more in general in Europe? Like significantly more.

I know how often Americans are being accused of ethnocentrism but you guys really show quite a bit of it. Its why most tipping threads are 10+ pages long.

No, not significantly more. Their prices in euros are about the same as our prices in USD. Also, that's across the board, period, not just restaurants.

The good thing is, if you're an american traveling abroad, you'll be surprised at the amount then get home and look at the bill and go "oh that wasn't that much at all." Went to Canada a couple months ago and stopped at a chocolate shop that had a chocolate river. I spend $133CDN which came out to $80something USD. So you end up being about the same either way.

 

[Stinkles]

It's still a subset of Landry's right? After Katrina destroyed the one here in NOLA, they sent me a check every week for 8 weeks for 400 bucks which really helped. The company is great to work for.

I just didn't enjoy dancing.

Wat

 

[Lost Fragment]

Wouldn't an increase in your salary offset not receiving tips?

Isn't that the point of tipping in the first place, that it makes up for the fact that you're being payed very lowly?

Pardon my ignorance, just trying to get a more informed perspective

Minimum wage would have to be raised to an amount that is not politically realistic to offset not receiving tips. I'd be all for minimum wage being raised as high as it would need to be, but it just isn't gonna happen. If you just get rid of tipping without addressing all the underlying issues, a lot of people are gonna suffer, and immigrants will suffer disproportionately.

It works everywhere else in the world though.

Great, but I'd hope that the rest of the world doesn't have the same socioeconomic issues that America does. And if they do, then hey, maybe things would be better for some people over there if tipping was a thing.

Tip-based jobs are one of the only things that a lot of people can do to get ahead outside of working multiple jobs for 100 hours a week. But sure, lets get rid of tipping because Arthur Reginald of Canterbury's particular socioeconomic situation makes him OK with making 5ish fewer bucks an hour delivering pizza compared to his American counterparts.

 

[Lotto]

I'll STILL TIP

JUST TRY AND STOP ME

 

[J@hranimo]

This is fantastic news. Get rid of tipping forever! The servers deserve a better pay without having this gratuity tacked on just because.

 

[HarryKS]

Minimum wage would have to be raised to an amount that is not politically realistic to offset not receiving tips. I'd be all for minimum wage being raised as high as it would need to be, but it just isn't gonna happen. If you just get rid of tipping without addressing all the underlying issues, a lot of people are gonna suffer, and immigrants will suffer disproportionately.



Great, but I'd hope that the rest of the world doesn't have the same socioeconomic issues that America does. And if they do, then hey, maybe things would be better for some people over there if tipping was a thing.

Tip-based jobs are one of the only things that a lot of people can do to get ahead outside of working multiple jobs for 100 hours a week. But sure, lets get rid of tipping because Arthur Reginald of Canterbury's particular socioeconomic situation makes him OK with making 5ish fewer bucks an hour delivering pizza compared to his American counterparts.

You think you have some sort of monopoly over how life works?

getting paid is an incentive

I do that

You know how it works but you'd rather take it that way. People don't need to play pretend friends with a person who delivers his/her food from the kitchen to the table. It's perverted.

 

[Ultimadrago]

I hate tipping/gratuity.

Even if this falls on its face, good on Joe's for at least trying.

 

[Transhuman]

That's cool. Everyone who doesn't like tipping should support this instead of stiffing workers at other places.

I'll just eat crab for the next few years.

 

[The Llama]

Good. Hope they also include taxes in the menu prices. What you see is what you pay, in the civilized world.

I'd love it but it'll never happen happen as long as individual cities/counties/etc. are able to set their own sales taxes. Just makes it almost impossible.

 

[littlebigman]

The last time I went to Joe's the waitresses all came out while my group was eating and did the YMCA dance around our table. Any job that has includes that as a duty should pay at least $15/hour.

 

[Subpar Spatula]

Yup.

Anti-tipping people tend to never see the downsides of tipping not being a thing. People who don't know what they're talking about, telling me that I'd be better off if tipping disappeared drives me up the fucking wall.

Of course YOU might take a small pay decrease but this isn't about YOU. It's about the many, many who make very little even with tips. This is to guarantee them a wage (not 100% livable) but is better than getting minimum server pay at iHop when you're 50-years-old.

 

[RMI]

great. All restaurants should do this.