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[Green Yoshi]

Scary stuff when even Trump is not radical enough anymore and candidates, endorsed by Steve Bannon, beat Trump's favorite in primaries.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/09/27/roy-moore-defeats-trump-ally-alabama-republican-run-off/

 

[HazySaiyan]

The GOP fostered this with their Southern Strategy and racist dogwhistling for decades, they now can't be surprised when these elements are taking over the party.

Kasich's all talk anyway, he'll fall in line just like everybody else. If you're in the GOP you never had any integrity to begin with, you knew what you were getting into.

 

[VariantX]

This is the Republican party now, not what it's "becoming". That was 9-10 years ago when that shit fully took over instead of being a fringe element

 

[Not]

Scary stuff when even Trump is not radical enough anymore and candidates, endorsed by Steve Bannon, beat Trump's favorite in primaries.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/09/27/roy-moore-defeats-trump-ally-alabama-republican-run-off/

Yeah. I really don't like the direction we're going in.

I don't know what to do.

 

[iapetus]

The GOP fostered this with their Southern Strategy and racist dogwhistling for decades, they now can't be surprised when these elements are taking over the party.

Sure they can. Their plan was to appeal to these people and get their votes, but letting them actually run things was never part of the plan.

Spoiler

It wasn't a very good plan, obviously...

 

[Joni]

"If it stays like that, I can only justify voting for them 6-7 times".

 

[Monkeyball]

It must suck to live in a country where you only have 2 political parties and 1 of those 2 are evil motherfuckers. #America

 

[iapetus]

It must suck to live in a country where you only have 2 political parties and 1 of those 2 are evil motherfuckers. #America

Well, at least it keeps things simple - everyone will obviously vote for the party that isn't pure evil, and at least they'll have a reasonable government as a result.

 

[Beartruck]

Well, at least it keeps things simple - everyone will obviously vote for the party that isn't pure evil, and at least they'll have a reasonable government as a result.

Or in our case, people will vote for the evil party and yell "Suck it liberals!" while the evil party disassembles their lives behind them.

 

[Croatoan]

We will have 3, or likely 4, viable parties soon. The US's political system will start to look like European ones as we move away from the two party system. The parties will be socialist, democrat, and far right. The fourth would be a "centrist" style party made up of what people call RHINOs, providing they dont just join the democrats.

I am convinced most millennial republicans would vote Democrat if it wasn't for Democrat's flirting with progressive policies that are too out there for them to get behind. Progressives seem to be getting extremely irritated with Dems and I could see a split there which would make the Dems a centrist party that could grab a lot of these modern millenial republicans, and just centrists in general, that are fiscally conservative but socially liberal.

How would that play out come election time? You would get more pure progressive senators and congress people instead of Dems just pretending to flirt with it. Most presidents would be Democrats that are "Centrist" yet still bound by big money corporations. If the republicans also split, and don't just join the centrist democrats, then their power will be split and the far right will become a hateful memory like they are in Europe.

This is long term by the way. Like within the next 30-50 years. So when Millennials are in the baby boomer position.

 

[Beartruck]

We will have 3, or likely 4, viable parties soon. The US's political system will start to look like European ones as we move away from the two party system. The parties will be socialist, democrat, centrist, and far right.

First past the post voting makes more than 2 parties infeasible. We're more likely to have a civil war than 4 active worthwhile political parties.

 

[jstripes]

We will have 3, or likely 4, viable parties soon. The US's political system will start to look like European ones as we move away from the two party system. The parties will be socialist, democrat, centrist, and far right.

Nah, you'll likely continue to have two political parties that internally convulse with increasing violence. American voters will forever depend on the D and the R being on their ballot.

 

[Ahgod]

He can't "support" them in interviews but he will almost certainly vote for every bill proposed by his buddies and continue to push the general GOP agenda. All these guys coming out like this just see the tides swirling and want to get ahead of any pendulum swing. They're moral cowards protecting their position.

 

[Laevateinn]

Fuck you John Kasich. You can't wash your hands of this nightmare.

 

[Dhx]

He can't "support" them in interviews but he will almost certainly vote for every bill proposed by his buddies and continue to push the general GOP agenda. All these guys coming out like this just see the tides swirling and want to get ahead of any pendulum swing. They're moral cowards protecting their position.

That would be a feat as a governor.

Some of these replies are embarrassing. At least understand who you are criticizing.

 

[Jombie]

THIS is the Republican party. It took Trump to peal back all the veneer.

 

[Aaron Strife]

If he wants to put his money where his mouth is he should endorse Doug Jones. He already said he doesn’t want Moore to win, so what’s the alternative here?

 

[entremet]

The GOP fomented racism via the Southern Strategy for decades and now they're like, "We're not really racists, guys!"

 

[Lightning_Roller]

Uh, if you haven't jumped off the train yet you never will.

You're complicit in all of this.

This. Stop talking and start doing so if it disgust you so much, Kasich. Otherwise, shut the fuck up you hypocrite.

 

[Linkura]

Uh, if you haven't jumped off the train yet you never will.

You're complicit in all of this.

One and done.

 

[Veelk]

Even if he did, at this point, who gives a shit.

He should have done that during the election, where it could have made a difference.

It's too late. It's been too late for 11 months.

 

[Dubbedinenglish]

Kasich isn’t even a minority in his party, he’s a lone wolf. He’ll he isn’t even out of line with the GOP’s goals, just not as overt.

 

[awcarew]

We will have 3, or likely 4, viable parties soon.

If by soon you mean 3000-5000 years, maybe.

 

[MetroidPrimeRib]

Sucks to lay in this bed I made

 

[Ahgod]

That would be a feat as a governor.

Some of these replies are embarrassing. At least understand who you are criticizing.

Sorry, sign bills*** does that help

 

[Arkeband]

Kasich, of Kasich v. Obergefell, feigning concern over homosexuality-should-be-illegal Roy Moore.

 

[thepenguin55]

As an Ohioan, this all rings hollow coming from Kasich but it's still kind of nice to hear (even though nothing will change). The fact that since January Cruz, Kasich, and McCain have all said or done things that make them seem like downright levelheaded individuals speaks volumes about the current administration.

THIS is the Republican party. It took Trump to peal back all the veneer.

^^^THIS.

 

[Man Called Aerodynamics]

Let's see one of these "concerned" Republicans (other than arguably McCain) actually do jack shit to stand up and do something about it other than just making vague statements.

 

[AndyD]

Uh, if you haven't jumped off the train yet you never will.

You're complicit in all of this.

Pretty much. Happy when it benefits him, but distances only when there's blowback.

 

[old manatee]

 

[FStubbs]

We will have 3, or likely 4, viable parties soon. The US's political system will start to look like European ones as we move away from the two party system. The parties will be socialist, democrat, and far right. The fourth would be a "centrist" style party made up of what people call RHINOs, providing they dont just join the democrats.

I am convinced most millennial republicans would vote Democrat if it wasn't for Democrat's flirting with progressive policies that are too out there for them to get behind. Progressives seem to be getting extremely irritated with Dems and I could see a split there which would make the Dems a centrist party that could grab a lot of these modern millenial republicans, and just centrists in general, that are fiscally conservative but socially liberal.

How would that play out come election time? You would get more pure progressive senators and congress people instead of Dems just pretending to flirt with it. Most presidents would be Democrats that are "Centrist" yet still bound by big money corporations. If the republicans also split, and don't just join the centrist democrats, then their power will be split and the far right will become a hateful memory like they are in Europe.

This is long term by the way. Like within the next 30-50 years. So when Millennials are in the baby boomer position.

The alt-right is mostly millenials. Any split favors the far right.

How does your system keep the far right from every single election due to first past the post?

 

[daveo42]

This is a bid for him to stay relevant in the coming years cause he's hit his term limit as Governor of Ohio. While I'm not a fan, I hope we get a Democrat cause the Republicans running for his spot are much farther right than he is.

 

[Phoenix RISING]

I would have voted for Kasich.

This news eases my conscience.

 

[The Last Wizard]

You’ll fall in line like the rest of em.

 

[balladofwindfishes]

I would have voted for Kasich.

This news eases my conscience.

Why? He's still a garbage tier Republican and a bigot.

 

[CHC]

If he wants to put his money where his mouth is he should endorse Doug Jones. He already said he doesn’t want Moore to win, so what’s the alternative here?

Stamp his feet and blow hot air on TV.

 

[kess]

Yeah, ok, right.

Just another milquetoast fighting for the non-existent ideals of the party. Change your party affiliation or go home.

 

[Stumpokapow]

We will have 3, or likely 4, viable parties soon. The US's political system will start to look like European ones as we move away from the two party system. The parties will be socialist, democrat, and far right. The fourth would be a "centrist" style party made up of what people call RHINOs, providing they dont just join the democrats.

This is long term by the way. Like within the next 30-50 years. So when Millennials are in the baby boomer position.

Are there reasons we might expect this would not happen?

 

[./revy]

Are there reasons we might expect this would not happen?

A look back at the last two hundred years of American history and a knowledge of the relationship between modern government, corporations, and the population would provide a few pretty decent ones. As long as politicians can force wedge issues into the spotlight, the system will always favor two party. The in-power parties at this moment have the corporate backing to force these wedge issues to the populace through the media and maintain the status quo. Politics is a three-way struggle between government, corporations, and voters but the voters represent the smallest side of that triangle.

Along with other things that make the whole thing entirely too complex to be worth typing out on this forum. But that is the major reason I doubt this "European-style system" would happen.

 

[Pantaghana]

We will have 3, or likely 4, viable parties soon.

Not until you get rid of first past the post.

 

[Raven117]

We will have 3, or likely 4, viable parties soon. The US's political system will start to look like European ones as we move away from the two party system. The parties will be socialist, democrat, and far right. The fourth would be a "centrist" style party made up of what people call RHINOs, providing they dont just join the democrats.

I am convinced most millennial republicans would vote Democrat if it wasn't for Democrat's flirting with progressive policies that are too out there for them to get behind. Progressives seem to be getting extremely irritated with Dems and I could see a split there which would make the Dems a centrist party that could grab a lot of these modern millenial republicans, and just centrists in general, that are fiscally conservative but socially liberal.

How would that play out come election time? You would get more pure progressive senators and congress people instead of Dems just pretending to flirt with it. Most presidents would be Democrats that are "Centrist" yet still bound by big money corporations. If the republicans also split, and don't just join the centrist democrats, then their power will be split and the far right will become a hateful memory like they are in Europe.

This is long term by the way. Like within the next 30-50 years. So when Millennials are in the baby boomer position.

I used to think this way. I used to think that millenial "republicans" would break to the democrats but for the left's more progressive policies (ie straight up European socialism).
Fiscally Conservative, Socially Liberal. Maybe this would have been true in 2008 . . . But now, no, I think we are mistaken. I don't think we can say this across the board.

In some instances, maybe we are correct. But I think those people are far outnumbered by "alt-righty" types that have really penetrated into younger folks.

Spoiler

It was bound to happen really. Its the ebb and flow of these things

 

[Xe4]

We will have 3, or likely 4, viable parties soon. The US's political system will start to look like European ones as we move away from the two party system. The parties will be socialist, democrat, and far right. The fourth would be a "centrist" style party made up of what people call RHINOs, providing they dont just join the democrats.

I am convinced most millennial republicans would vote Democrat if it wasn't for Democrat's flirting with progressive policies that are too out there for them to get behind. Progressives seem to be getting extremely irritated with Dems and I could see a split there which would make the Dems a centrist party that could grab a lot of these modern millenial republicans, and just centrists in general, that are fiscally conservative but socially liberal.

How would that play out come election time? You would get more pure progressive senators and congress people instead of Dems just pretending to flirt with it. Most presidents would be Democrats that are "Centrist" yet still bound by big money corporations. If the republicans also split, and don't just join the centrist democrats, then their power will be split and the far right will become a hateful memory like they are in Europe.

This is long term by the way. Like within the next 30-50 years. So when Millennials are in the baby boomer position.

That's never going to happen. Not while the US has FPTP system. Every time a third party pops up, the group they end up hurting the most is those that are closest to them, and benefits those furthest from the political spectrum from them.

You'll have an occasional pendant candidate in the house or senate, but usually only in name. Most end up caucusing with either democrats or republicans because that's the only way to get anything done.

 

[KingV]

Deleted. My bad.

I still think the issues with Democratic party are nowhere near as bad as the other side.



Also this

I believe the democrats mostly fundamentally agree on what is right and what is wrong, and how things should be, but most of the disagreements are tactical or strategic.

Outcome wise, most democrats think we need 1) racial equality 2) address income inequality 3) true healthcare for all.

There is just a lot of disagreement on what to work on first (IMO the answer is really all three at once) and what some of those actually mean in practice.

 

[exmachina64]

Are there reasons we might expect this would not happen?

If we just don't want it enough.

 

[Fenderputty]

Fuck you John Kasich. You can't wash your hands of this nightmare.

These posts are funny to me and there's lot of them in this thread. Kasich has been a consistent voice against ACA repeals. He's better at drugs laws than even some democrats. Is he perfect? Hell no. Is he what we wish the GOP started to become again? Yes. More people need to come out and say what Kasich is saying.

 

[Greigor The Fellhand]

These posts are funny to me and there's lot of them in this thread. Kasich has been a consistent voice against ACA repeals. He's better at drugs laws than even some democrats. Is he perfect? Hell no. Is he what we wish the GOP started to become again? Yes. More people need to come out and say what Kasich is saying.

plus he never backed trump and has been very vocal against trump/republican agendas

 

[Fenderputty]

plus he never backed trump and has been very vocal against trump/republican agendas

Like he's a republican, and a religious one at that. So I disagree with the man most of the time. I am no fan. He is still better than 95% of the GOP right now though. If Kasich were in the Senate, none of these repeal bills even gets close to passing. So like poo poo him here if you want. Seems silly to me. I wish more people would stand up and say these things on the right.

 

[SatelliteOfLove]

No, my dream scenario is very much that Russian involvement in undermining American democracy had been taking place for years before Donald Trump was ever a thing, and it was being done via right wing media. I want an entire generation of world views collapsing. Fox News, Rush Limbaugh, et al., were nuts and ripping this country apart long before Donald Trump decided to run for President. Trump is the symptom, right wing media is the disease. It's right wing media that's driving what you describe in your post, the total movement away from facts and into crazy land.

But, again, this is just a dream scenario, I don't expect it. Occam's Razor is that these people were just doing it because it made them a lot of money.

I'm just exasperated and don't know how we deal with these people. You can't win a debate based on facts, because these people reject even the concept that there are facts. And until you get the right debating within the realm of actual facts, there's no "fixing" the GOP.

Yeah, I didn't mention that (sleepy postin'), but that's another field that needs a flamethrower taken to. Alex Jones alone is guilty AF, it's just going to take prosecutors getting to him as he's kinda small fry right now.

Yeah. I really don't like the direction we're going in.

I don't know what to do.

Hopefully that demographic trend research is true that millenials are less and less likely to be fans of the GOP and conservative stances (and the ones that are can be shitheads). It's been one of those unheeded alarms some GOP have been blaring for a decade now to no effect, or rather, the opposite effect: ie, Moore's drunk gun-waving ass.

The delicate, dangerous part is "will enough sensible conservatives not bother to show up when these racist yay-hoos show up on a ballot so Dems slaughter at the ballot box?", a question we will know the answer to shortly...

Like he's a republican, and a religious one at that. So I disagree with the man most of the time. I am no fan. He is still better than 95% of the GOP right now though. If Kasich were in the Senate, none of these repeal bills even gets close to passing. So like poo poo him here if you want. Seems silly to me. I wish more people would stand up and say these things on the right.

^^^

You ain't going to get a Republican to pass a purity test if some Dems dont.

Like, that ain't aggressive dismissal, but do we want a counter-block on the Right to check the avalanche of stupid and evil coming from the Bannonite wing? You ain't gotta kiss them just aim at the same goal for a while. Hell, once they leave that gravity field pulling them into kook-land, they get legitimately fluid on issues.

 

[RyougaSaotome]

Tapper explicitly asked if Kasich might split from the GOP if it continues being associated with figures like Moore.

“No, not at this...”

oh

 

[Angelus Errare]

Please watch this to understand why as long as America employs first past the post to determine leadership in the US, we'll always be a two party system