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[big_z]

Keanu knows his gun stuff but why does he hold pistols at 45 degree angles? With the rifles and shotguns it makes sense because there's a second sight but the pistols I don't understand.

Am I going crazy? Folks here and critics all seem to think this was as good or better than JW1.

I like action movies -- I like well choreographed action, and yeah, these movies have them. I also want, however, some kind of motivation and investment in the characters. I want something to be at stake. Let's take a look at the story of the two movies...

Spoiler

John Wick 1: John Wick loves and misses his dead wife. He now loves the puppy that his dead wife gave to him. Badguys kill the puppy and it becomes very personal for him (dead wife puppy) and very personal to the audience (everyone loves puppies). This motivation for the revenge movie was novel and effective. We were rooting for John Wick because we were sad about the puppy and about his dead wife.

John Wick 2: I just saw this again last night and I'm still having trouble remembering what it was actually about -- Because afterwards it just felt like a movie where people fight for no reason for 3 hours. But, yeah, let me retrace its steps...

Okay, John Wick has a blood oath called in by another hitman and he has to go do a murder for him because that's the code of the hitmen. So he does it and now everyone wants to kill him so everyone tries to kill him and so he kills them and this goes on for three hours. John Wick horrifically murders hundreds of people while being shot, stabbed, punched, thrown, kicked, and run over by cars so many times he may as well be the wolverine.

The action was neat, and the scene with the mirrors was visually and audioly interesting, but how can you not be left feeling kind of numb? Even if there was a good or interesting or resonant motivation for any given fight, they go on for so long that you'd forget what it was.

I think the story in John Wick 2 is pretty straight forward and makes sense. Basically:

Spoiler

John tried to retire by giving his oath to D'Antonio, When D'Antonio hears of wicks exploits from the first movie he goes to him expecting a job which Wick gets forced into.

D'Antonio wants his sister dead so he can have her chair on the High Table. The sister explains he wants the position so he can expand his control over greater territory essentially taking over areas controlled by other members. This plot point gets mentioned again later in the movie. It's why Morpheus gives Neo a gun instead of taking the bounty on his head. The reason why D'Antonio places a bounty on Wicks head is to clean up loose ends. He doesn't want Wick telling other table members of what he's planning. He also doesn't want people knowing he killed his sister to take her position at the high table.

As to killing tons of people, don't worry they were all bad.

 

[crisdecuba]

Keanu knows his gun stuff but why does he hold pistols at 45 degree angles? With the rifles and shotguns it makes sense because there's a second sight but the pistols I don't understand.




I think the story in John Wick 2 is pretty straight forward and makes sense. Basically:

Spoiler

John tried to retire by giving his oath to D'Antonio, When D'Antonio hears of wicks exploits from the first movie he goes to him expecting a job which Wick gets forced into.

D'Antonio wants his sister dead so he can have her chair on the High Table. The sister explains he wants the position so he can expand his control over greater territory essentially taking over areas controlled by other members. This plot point gets mentioned again later in the movie. It's why Morpheus gives Neo a gun instead of taking the bounty on his head. The reason why D'Antonio places a bounty on Wicks head is to clean up loose ends. He doesn't want Wick telling other table members of what he's planning. He also doesn't want people knowing he killed his sister to take her position at the high table.

As to killing tons of people, don't worry they were all bad.

From what I've read, it's called Center Axis Relock.

From Reddit:

"It lets you bring a handgun closer to your body to make it easier to maintain control over it when fighting in a tight space, and takes less time to get a sight picture with than a traditional stance.

The disadvantage of this technique is that it's more fatiguing than conventional stances (basically like an exaggerated Weaver stance), and therefore doesn't translate well to extended medium range shooting.

Wick generally closes distance and ends the fight quickly, so for the most part the disadvantages don't apply."

And (another Reddit quote):

"John Wick uses CAR.

He doesn't use traditional style and sometime change to CAR. He uses mainly CAR and switch to traditional once in a while, typically for longer range. I sometime use CAR so I can elaborate on it. However, I shoot the same way as Wick instead of the actual CAR method.

CAR stands for Central Axis Relock. It is a fancy name for shooting your pistol sideways. Similar to gangsta style, but difference in the sense that it actually has fundamental principles applied to it. Meaning it will work and not bullshit. CAR is meant to be 180 degree or turn on its side. However, people can modified it to be used at a 45 degree tilt. That's the one I like. All the principles of traditional sight aiming will also applied. The only difference is that the gun can be brought into your body as close as possible. It is a shooting style meant for urban warfare and close-quarter combat. It can be use in conjunction to hand-to-hand combat. Not limited to pistols, but rifles and shotguns can also be shot using CAR.

The accuracy is just as good as traditional method. I find that the range for it is best between 0 to 25 yards. At 25 yards and beyond, I have to use full extension and re-tilt your hand back into traditional method. Highly maneuverable and make it easy to move around in tight spaces like house and apartment. The addition of hand-to-hand combat increases your survival rate. Can be shot with one hand or two hands, but was meant for two hands shooting in mind. Can be used in any shooting position, whatever apply to traditional method will also apply to CAR. Fundamental-wise, it is the same as traditional, except you have learn how to shoot a gun sideways."

 

[big_z]

From what I've read, it's called Center Axis Relock.

From Reddit:

"It lets you bring a handgun closer to your body to make it easier to maintain control over it when fighting in a tight space, and takes less time to get a sight picture with than a traditional stance.

The disadvantage of this technique is that it's more fatiguing than conventional stances (basically like an exaggerated Weaver stance), and therefore doesn't translate well to extended medium range shooting.

Wick generally closes distance and ends the fight quickly, so for the most part the disadvantages don't apply."

And (another Reddit quote):

"John Wick uses CAR.

He doesn't use traditional style and sometime change to CAR. He uses mainly CAR and switch to traditional once in a while, typically for longer range. I sometime use CAR so I can elaborate on it. However, I shoot the same way as Wick instead of the actual CAR method.

CAR stands for Central Axis Relock. It is a fancy name for shooting your pistol sideways. Similar to gangsta style, but difference in the sense that it actually has fundamental principles applied to it. Meaning it will work and not bullshit. CAR is meant to be 180 degree or turn on its side. However, people can modified it to be used at a 45 degree tilt. That's the one I like. All the principles of traditional sight aiming will also applied. The only difference is that the gun can be brought into your body as close as possible. It is a shooting style meant for urban warfare and close-quarter combat. It can be use in conjunction to hand-to-hand combat. Not limited to pistols, but rifles and shotguns can also be shot using CAR.

The accuracy is just as good as traditional method. I find that the range for it is best between 0 to 25 yards. At 25 yards and beyond, I have to use full extension and re-tilt your hand back into traditional method. Highly maneuverable and make it easy to move around in tight spaces like house and apartment. The addition of hand-to-hand combat increases your survival rate. Can be shot with one hand or two hands, but was meant for two hands shooting in mind. Can be used in any shooting position, whatever apply to traditional method will also apply to CAR. Fundamental-wise, it is the same as traditional, except you have learn how to shoot a gun sideways."

Alright that's impressive, it's not something I've ever seen in another action movie and Keanu really puts in the work to keep it accurate.

 

[Jobbs]

I think the story in John Wick 2 is pretty straight forward and makes sense. Basically:

I understood what the story was well enough, but in terms of emotional resonance and some feeling motivated to see all of this violence on screen I just felt the movie was lacking.

Can a movie be entertaining only on the strength of its action? I guess -- But the first movie had some stakes for the audience to get involved in wanting to see John Wick succeed. It was a revenge movie. This movie is just a people fighting movie.

 

[big_z]

I understood what the story was well enough, but in terms of emotional resonance and some feeling motivated to see all of this violence on screen I just felt the movie was lacking.

Can a movie be entertaining only on the strength of its action? I guess -- But the first movie had some stakes for the audience to get involved in wanting to see John Wick succeed. It was a revenge movie. This movie is just a people fighting movie.

Well the first movie they stole his car and killed his dog. In this one they murdered his house, the last thing he has that was shared by his wife and force him back into a lifestyle his wife got him to leave. Also keep in mind the movie starts days after the last one so I doubt he's moved on emotionally... and its a movie about underground killers so what can you expect. lol

 

[VenomousCoffee]

Alright that's impressive, it's not something I've ever seen in another action movie and Keanu really puts in the work to keep it accurate.

I use CAR (which is basically three random words) sometimes when I shoot. It feels natural to me to have my hands 'up and in' like that in a threatening situation. I'm also cross-eye dominant (right handed but left eyed) and CAR makes it easier to bring the pistol sight to my left eye. I shoot basically the same accuracy with CAR and the traditional stances.

You will definitely see it in a lot of action movie-type stuff, though, once you look for it. Sam Fisher uses it in SC Blacklist, and I even saw Chris Pine use it for a few seconds in Wonder Woman (which is anachronistic as hell, but whatever).

 

[D6AMIA6N]

I liked the movie, but it in my opinion, was not as good or gritty as the first chapter. I thought Ruby Rose's character was ridiculous and pointless. Her scenes were so corny.

 

[family_guy]

The action was better in this movie, but the premise was more absurd. There was no reason to use John Wick for the contract in Rome.

Spoiler

Look how easily he was able to get into the room with that woman. There were multiple vantage points. Anyone could have done it. In fact if it had been someone less known than John Wick, then they may have been able to stroll out of that party without anyone noticing they were there.

 

[bosseye]

Saw this last night, enjoyable enough but fairly bloated and muddled at times. A lot of it felt a bit pointless. Like at the start, when he's trying to get his car back, for no obvious reason that I could see, rather than clear the bad guys out and take it back he sets up the situation where his car gets smashed to bits instead. I get that the car wasn't necessarily the target (the card in the glovebox was), but it seemed like a flimsy set up for a fight scene.

The whole Rome contract was pointless and Wick trying to get to D'antonio at the gallery was entirely contrived.

It did less to perpetrate this idea of Wick as a super hitman and more to portray him as the least efficient hitman in the world.

It served to flesh out the world a bit for the inevitable JW3, but even that was faintly ridiculous; just how many hitmen are there out there!?

I missed the simplicity and purity of the first. A simple revenge story, uncluttered and with clear and understandable motivations. This one had none of that.

 

[Fox Mulder]

I liked the movie, but it in my opinion, was not as good or gritty as the first chapter. I thought Ruby Rose's character was ridiculous and pointless. Her scenes were so corny.

Just saw it and felt the same. I liked digging into the lore a bit more and it was great action. It just felt a little flatter than the first.

 

[rtcn63]

Watched it. So...

Spoiler

why exactly did a contract get put on John? To stop him from telling anyone about who ordered the hit? John straight up tells at least one person before then- Cassian. Like, apparently there's no code regarding mentioning the name of the person who ordered the contract.

Was Santino afraid that John would come for him after killing his sister? I mean yeah, he burned John's house down, but it seemed like he was ready to just go home and forget all this. Why kick the hornet's nest? Was Santino just paranoid because of what happened to the Russians in the first film?

And Cassian's hate for John seems misplaced. I get that he can't go after Santino, but John did what he had to. They're all in the same business and know the rules, even if Cassian was (very) close to Santino's sister.

 

[torontoml]

Watched it. So...

Spoiler

why exactly did a contract get put on John? To stop him from telling anyone about who ordered the hit? John straight up tells at least one person before then- Cassian. Like, apparently there's no code regarding mentioning the name of the person who ordered the contract.

Was Santino afraid that John would come for him after killing his sister? I mean yeah, he burned John's house down, but it seemed like he was ready to just go home and forget all this. Why kick the hornet's nest? Was Santino just paranoid because of what happened to the Russians in the first film?

And Cassian's hate for John seems misplaced. I get that he can't go after Santino, but John did what he had to. They're all in the same business and know the rules, even if Cassian was (very) close to Santino's sister.

My take is that

Spoiler

Santino couldn't appear weak and to remove suspicion of himself being involved had to take revenge on his sister's killer.

Cassian said it was his duty, as she was his ward or other way around not sure, to take revenge on her killer

.

 

[SArcher]

Finally saw this and gotta say, its a weak sequel. It needlessly convoluted John's impossible task and made him look like less of a badass as a result. The villain's motivation is also a little muddled. Hopefully the third chapter redeems it.

 

[direct_quote]

Finally saw this and gotta say, its a weak sequel. It needlessly convoluted John's impossible task and made him look like less of a badass as a result. The villain's motivation is also a little muddled. Hopefully the third chapter redeems it.

Yah villian was weak as fuck. First one had a better villian and at least felt like it had an arc. This one John just kills a bunch of people and the ending fell super flat.

But I didn't really like the first one that much anyway, I more prefer collateral's style. Obviously different movie and style, but I was interested and felt engaged in the story and wonder what happened next. This one just felt like watching someone play a videogame... And even though John Wick is a straight action movie more or less, seeing the same method of killing for hours, getting shot and being invincible, etc, got old after the first big action scene in Italy..

 

[Kickz]

Lttp on this one and just finished seeing it. The cinematography was pure eye candy, loved all the wide shots and historic material. Laurence Fishburne's lines almost seemed like a nod to the Matrix, gave me goosebumps him and Wick interacting.
This movie series is doing alot right.

 

[SyenceLabb]

Yah villian was weak as fuck. First one had a better villian and at least felt like it had an arc. This one John just kills a bunch of people and the ending fell super flat.

But I didn't really like the first one that much anyway, I more prefer collateral's style. Obviously different movie and style, but I was interested and felt engaged in the story and wonder what happened next. This one just felt like watching someone play a videogame... And even though John Wick is a straight action movie more or less, seeing the same method of killing for hours, getting shot and being invincible, etc, got old after the first big action scene in Italy..

This pretty much sums up my feelings on JW2. One area of difference is that I actually really liked JW1. JW2's gun-fu scenes just felt forced and contrived and there wasn't enough pure hand to hand combat which would've been a nice break from the precision head or nut shot at the end of every fight scene. And the ending, like others have said, fell flat due to JW2 seemingly not having a true equal as a villain to close things out.

With all that being said. I still have JW2 UHD Blu ray sitting in my Amazon cart right now waiting for a sale. lol

 

[Triggerhappytel]

I watched this last night, and although I enjoyed it I thought the first was better. Like with The Raid and its sequel, I think the simpler premise worked better, and the efforts to add all these extra characters and the world building didn't really work for me. I felt like just going bigger and bigger made it feel silly, and John Wick is very good at aiming at and shooting people in a straight fight, but he's terrible as an actual hitman. Like, compare what he does here compared to Jean Reno in Leon and you've got one guy who seems like an actual hitman and can clinically and discreetly take out a small army of private security while the other behaves like Schwarzenegger from an 80s action film. If John was a decent hitman and managed to kill her discreetly then none of the film's events after like the 55th minute would have happened. What's more, if she was that powerful and had so much private security why was she in such an easily-accessible area that John literally just wandered into, with nobody guarding her?!

Also, the first film made it clear that to get out of the hitman game the Russian mob boss gave Wick the "impossible task" of killing his enemies, upon which they formed their crime empire. Seems a bit convenient that as a second condition of that agreement John is indebted to another different mob boss to do any hit asked of him when the time came.

I also began to find the action scenes kinda... boring. There's only so many times you can see John shoot someone in the body and then shoot them in the head with various guns, or judo throw them to the ground and finish them with a head shot before it starts to seem repetitive. I mean, the action is great and it's all really well filmed, but the action scenes just went on too long without much variation.

It's easy to notice that they basically said "o you like this sequence in the first movie? Well here are three more of the same, only with five times the bodycount".

So many surreal moments in this movie. I really enjoyed it, but some of the sequences are just bizarre.

Spoiler

- Coming to take back his car, wrecks it in the process, changes his mind and returns to the warehouse to wreck it some more
- crowd at a concert cheering as John Wick straight up shoots a guy through the head on a podium next to the DJ
- the subsequent shootout in the middle of the crowd with somehow 0 non-baddy casualties
- The bizarro "suppressed" fight where John and Cassian walk parallel through a subway station shooting at each other and no one noticing
- John Wick killing people on the streets left and right in front of dozens of people and no one even flinches
- John's aimbotting and wallhacking
- The insane 100% impenetrable "body armor" suits
- John getting shot in the kidney from point-blank range three times and basicallty just walking it off
- Overall the total non-reaction of bystanders when a bloodied, injured man walks around the streets

Opposed to the first, this movie really moved past my treshhold for suspension of disbelief.

Yeah, him shaking off the bullet wound was one of the hardest things to swallow for me. Like, why even have him getting shot if it's barely going to affect him?! And the fight he & Common had on the subway was ridiculous as well - the passengers just sit there and I'm not even sure if they're looking for half of it. Wouldn't you move to a different car if you saw two guys really going at it trying to kill each other?!

I also thought the idea that there are hundreds of assassins seeded throughout New York and John had to get past them all was really dumb. That's the moment it broke my suspension of disbelief.

The first is so great mainly because of how fresh it felt.. it's hard to judge this in comparison. At times the action does feel a bit samey. Those gun fights, despite being awesome, can get a bit repetitive. This is one of the reasons why I thought the intro had the best action sequence.

I love the overall universe in this franchise. The lack of reaction from the public, or the lack of police presence is something I'd hate in any other movie.. but in the John Wick universe it's just something you accept.

Came to post this. I really liked the first, the second one frustrated me. A bit too over-stylized. Crushed my suspension of disbelief.
For a famous super professional, John Wick makes a ridiculous series of obviously bad choices.

I enjoyed the film, but can't disagree with your post. I know we're not watching a documentary, here- but there need to be at least some lines that can't be crossed, otherwise there's no tension. The choreography and set pieces are all awesome, but we're basically watching a Terminator plow through children for 120 minutes. A situation doesn't exist that John can't simply shoot his way out of.

I agree with everything you guys have said. It's a really good film with great action, but I felt it was far inferior to the original.

 

[Sephzilla]

Yeah after revisiting John Wick 2, I still love the movie but I prefer the first movie more. The simplicity of JW1 makes it work better for me and I prefer the ambiguity of the world and the hitman society. Comparing John Wick and its sequel to the Raid movies is fairly spot on, actually

 

[Chorazin]

I also thought the idea that there are hundreds of assassins seeded throughout New York and John had to get past them all was really dumb. That's the moment it broke my suspension of disbelief.

You mean the scene at the very end

Spoiler

after he's ex-communicated and running with his dog?

They weren't all assassins, it was showing that John would need to view every single person as a possible threat because anyone could be one. It wasn't literal.

 

[EloquentM]

It’s an action movie where the protag literally kills hundreds of people using gun-fu. If you can’t turn your brain off going into movie I don’t think you really would’ve enjoyed it no matter what direction the writers went in.

 

[Triggerhappytel]

You mean the scene at the very end

Spoiler

after he's ex-communicated and running with his dog?

They weren't all assassins, it was showing that John would need to view every single person as a possible threat because anyone could be one. It wasn't literal.

No, I mean when he arrives back in New York and there's the random assassins like the busking lady or the two security guards chasing him.

It’s an action movie where the protag literally kills hundreds of people using gun-fu. If you can’t turn your brain off going into movie I don’t think you really would’ve enjoyed it no matter what direction the writers went in.

Sure, I can turn my brain off - as I said, I really like the first film. I just didn't enjoy this one as much, partly because of the constant escalation and large scale compared to the more meaningful, more personal and smaller scale of the first film.

 

[Chorazin]

No, I mean when he arrives back in New York and there's the random assassins like the busking lady or the two security guards chasing him.



Sure, I can turn my brain off - as I said, I really like the first film. I just didn't enjoy this one as much, partly because of the constant escalation and large scale compared to the more meaningful, more personal and smaller scale of the first film.

Eh, I didn't think that was out of place. Biggest city in the country, most assassins. Makes sense most would just be out doing whatever or earning extra money between contracts.

I'm not exactly dying for the reason behind the cool fights in the movie, I just wanna see them. It's a movie, doesn't need to have an iron clad logic to be fun. I'm way less nitpicky about movies than most people though.

 

[victreeb3l]

Saw this on a flight recently, friggin loved it. The cinematography was jaw dropping and I really love the lore of this franchise. Its so anime at times I love it.

Cannot wait for Chapter 3!

 

[Rocket786]

Saw this recently on a UHD disc on an OLED TV.

My god...

I was mesmerized by the cinematography. The colors and the angles... All in HDR was a sight to see. Then you have the fighting choreography. Holy shit man. It was like watching a dance. Just incredible all around.

I haven't been able to stop listening to the soundtrack since watching the movie either. Themes that you can recognize instead of generic sounds to compliment the action!

All of this is 2nd to the actual movie. The ride through the universe they created is simply sublime. They've created this mythical hero which is oddly enough a vulnerable broken down human being pushed to his limits. His reputation literally precedes him everywhere and sets the tone for everything. It's the mother fuckin T1000 coming after you. Run and hide, but he will find you and he will kill you (Taken, take notes). His motivations are believable in the universe they've set.

Spoiler

You care for the character and feel his pain for his deceased wife, deceased dog, and his broken down house.

You root for the mother fuckin Baba Yaga. This is how you make an action movie!

I think this tops Mad Max for me to be the best action movie since T2 and Matrix in the 90s. 10/10

 

[Rogan]

Thumbs up!

Thank you so much!