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Judge rejects GOP bid to keep Schiavo alive

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G

ge-man

Member
Shit, you don't even need a secret memo to realize what the hell this intervention was all about. Unfortunately, the sensational parts of this case will cloud the facts as just as they have in other stories reported by the mainstream media.
 
G

ge-man

Member
theo said:
im not up on this case, and am just wondering who is paying to keep this woman alive?
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Her husband won a million dollars in malpractice case about the cause of her braind death. Much of that money has gone to her care. From what I understand, she is staying at non-profit hospice for free because of her condition.
 
T

Triumph

Banned
Pimpwerx said:
We're paying for this bullshit Congress too. PEACE.
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I dunno, man. This Congress is providing more laughs per dollar spent on them than any previous Congress. Granted, the laughs are commingled with tears, but... hey, them's the breaks. And you really HAVE to cry while the Guvment fiddles as America figuratively burns to the ground.
 
V

videogamer

Banned
theo said:
so taxpayers are paying for this. unbelieveable
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How does nonprofit hospice=taxpayer money? Of course, the government funds all sorts of things, but is there a direct connection? Maybe the hospice has government grant money or takes in Medicade money or something.
 
M

Mercury Fred

Banned
Michael Schiavo speaks:
Schiavo: 'Come down, President Bush'
By WILLIAM R. LEVESQUE, Times Staff Writer
Published March 20, 2005

PINELLAS PARK - Angered by the latest political developments in Washington, Michael Schiavo said Saturday that it isn't just the Florida governor who should visit his wife to learn about the case.

Jeb Bush's brother, President Bush, should visit Terri Schiavo, too, he said.

"Come down, President Bush," Schiavo said in a telephone interview. "Come talk to me. Meet my wife. Talk to my wife and see if you get an answer. Ask her to lift her arm to shake your hand. She won't do it."

She won't, Schiavo said, because she can't.

He made a similar offer to the governor last week, saying lawmakers interferring in his wife's life know nothing about the case. So far, Gov. Bush hasn't responded to the offer.

President Bush has indicated he will sign any federal legislation to keep Terri Schiavo alive.

Weary after an emotional visit with his wife, Schiavo said he is astonished that politicians want to interfere in such a private matter.

"Instead of worrying about my wife, who was granted her wishes by the state courts the past seven years, they should worry about the pedophiles killing young girls," Schiavo said, referring to a local case. "Why doesn't Congress worry about people not having health insurance? Or the budget? Let's talk about all the children who don't have homes."

He said U.S. House Majority Leader Tom DeLay, who is leading a charge to extend Terri Schiavo's life, is a "little slithering snake" pandering for votes.

"To make comments that Terri would want to live, how do they know?" Schiavo said of the members of Congress who want to keep his wife alive.

"Have they ever met her?" Schiavo said. "What color are her eyes? What's her middle name? What's her favorite color? They don't have any clue who Terri is. They should all be ashamed of themselves."

Schiavo said he was going to stay at his wife's side through the entire ordeal and said he wouldn't back down in his fight to have her wishes carried out.

"Terri died 15 years ago," Schiavo said, referring to the collapse and cardiac arrest that doctors say virtually destroyed her brain. "It's time for her to be with the Lord like she wanted to be."
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http://www.sptimes.com/2005/03/20/Tampabay/Schiavo___Come_down__.shtml
ouch.
 
I

Incognito

Troll
http://digbysblog.blogspot.com/2005_03_20_digbysblog_archive.html#111134934659869241

Tom DeLay of Texas says:

"Mrs. Schiavo's life is not slipping away - it is being violently wrenched from her body in an act of medical terrorism," DeLay said. "Mr. Schiavo's attorney's characterization of the premeditated starvation and dehydration of a helpless woman as 'her dying process' is as disturbing as it is unacceptable. What is happening to her is not compassion - it is homicide. She doesn't need to die, and as long as Terri Schiavo can breathe and her supporters can pray, we will not rest."



By now most people who read liberal blogs are aware that George W. Bush signed a law in Texas that expressly gave hospitals the right to remove life support if the patient could not pay and there was no hope of revival, regardless of the patient's family's wishes. It is called the Texas Futile Care Law. Under this law, a baby was removed from life support against his mother's wishes in Texas just this week. A 68 year old man was given a temporary reprieve by the Texas courts just yesterday.

Those of us who read liberal blogs are also aware that Republicans have voted en masse to pull the plug (no pun intended) on medicaid funding that pays for the kind of care that someone like Terry Schiavo and many others who are not so severely brain damaged need all across this country.

Those of us who read liberal blogs also understand that that the tort reform that is being contemplated by the Republican congress would preclude malpractice claims like that which has paid for Terry Schiavo's care thus far.

Those of us who read liberal blogs are aware that the bankruptcy bill will make it even more difficult for families who suffer a catastrophic illness like Terry Schiavo's because they will not be able to declare chapter 7 bankruptcy and get a fresh start when the gargantuan medical bills become overwhelming.

And those of us who read liberal blogs also know that this grandstanding by the congress is a purely political move designed to appease the religious right and that the legal maneuverings being employed would be anathema to any true small government conservative.

Those who don't read liberal blogs, on the other hand, are seeing a spectacle on television in which the news anchors repeatedly say that the congress is "stepping in to save Terry Schiavo" mimicking the unctuous words of Tom Delay as they grovel and leer at the family and nod sympathetically at the sanctimonious phonies who are using this issue for their political gain.

This is why we cannot trust the mainstream media. Most people get their news from television. And television is presenting this issue as a round the clock one dimensional soap opera pitting the "family", the congress and the church against this woman's husband and the judicial system that upheld Terry Schiavo's right and explicit request that she be allowed to die if extraordinary means were required to keep her alive. The ghoulish infotainment industry is making a killing by acceding once again to trumped up right wing sensationalism.

This issue gets to the essence of the culture war. Shall the state be allowed to interfere in the most delicate, complicated personal matters of life, death and health because a particular religious constituency holds that their belief system should override each individual's right to make these personal decisions for him or herself. And it isn't the allegedly statist/communist/socialist left that is agitating for the government to tell Americans how they must live and how they must die.

One of the things that we need to help America understand is that there is a big difference between the way the two parties perceive the role of government in its citizens personal lives. Democrats want the government to collect money from all its citizens in order to deliver services to the people. The Republicans want the government to collect money from working people in order to dictate individual citizen's personal decisions. You tell me which is the bigger intrusion into the average American's liberty?
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bow.gif
bow.gif
 
N

Ninja Scooter

Member
"She doesn't need to die, and as long as Terri Schiavo can breathe and her supporters can pray, we will not rest."

good to see that from now on, we can legislate based on prayer and miracles. Hey, lets just shut down the entire department of homeland security, cause, you know, as long as everyone prays those evil terrorists won't attack us!
 
X

xsarien

daedsiluap
Tom DeLay said:
Tom DeLay of Texas says:

"Mrs. Schiavo's life is not slipping away - it is being violently wrenched from her body in an act of medical terrorism," DeLay said. "Mr. Schiavo's attorney's characterization of the premeditated starvation and dehydration of a helpless woman as 'her dying process' is as disturbing as it is unacceptable. What is happening to her is not compassion - it is homicide. She doesn't need to die, and as long as Terri Schiavo can breathe and her supporters can pray, we will not rest."
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Is Tom DeLay calling DNR requests acts of terrorism? Why, I believe he is!
 
S

scorcho

testicles on a cold fall morning
C-Span hearings are on now, full of whimsical annecdotes on resurections and the 'mortality and helplessness' and all. let's send more troops to war while we're at it.
 
K

Kobun Heat

Member
I definitely already posted about this, but -- she doesn't need to be resuscitated and there are no "extraordinary" measures being taken to prolong her life. Just food and water. A DNR would mean that if her life was in immediate danger doctors would take no heroic measures to prolong it. That isn't the case here.

Her supporters, from what I've read, seem to have raised legitimate questions as to whether she is even in a "permanent vegetative state", the fact upon which all this hinges. I'm not qualified to state whether she is. She's certainly not going to "snap out of it," but as I understand it her family's belief is that with therapy (which she hasn't had in over a decade), she could learn to function enough to feed herself.
 
X

xsarien

daedsiluap
Kobun Heat said:
Her supporters, from what I've read, seem to have raised legitimate questions as to whether she is even in a "permanent vegetative state", the fact upon which all this hinges.
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Far be it from me to pretend to be a medical doctor, but everything I've read about her specific case details that the only parts of her brain that are even functioning are the ones that control breathing and other involuntary actions. Others imply that anything outside of those areas are downright destroyed.
 
C

Culex

Banned
Isn't this a direct attack against separation of powers? How can this bill even pass? Am I dreaming or is our legislative system crumbling before my eyes?
 
S

scorcho

testicles on a cold fall morning
Kobun Heat said:
I definitely already posted about this, but -- she doesn't need to be resuscitated and there are no "extraordinary" measures being taken to prolong her life. Just food and water. A DNR would mean that if her life was in immediate danger doctors would take no heroic measures to prolong it. That isn't the case here.

Her supporters, from what I've read, seem to have raised legitimate questions as to whether she is even in a "permanent vegetative state", the fact upon which all this hinges. I'm not qualified to state whether she is. She's certainly not going to "snap out of it," but as I understand it her family's belief is that with therapy (which she hasn't had in over a decade), she could learn to function enough to feed herself.
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the greatest problem is whether Congress should interfere on this matter, setting off a rather nasty historical presidence. this is also attempting to pass a bill that's squarely limited at ONE person and not at large.
 
W

WedgeX

Banned
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/wireStory?id=599079

Senate passed the legislation...now on to the House.

The Senate passed a bill that could prolong Terri Schiavo's life while House Republicans, stalled by Democrats, scrambled to bring enough lawmakers back to the Capitol for an emergency vote early Monday.
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Republican supporters said the "Palm Sunday Compromise" would protect the constitutional rights of a disabled person, and denied suggestions that they viewed the case as an opportunity to shore up support among religious conservatives ahead of next year's elections.
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M

maharg

idspispopd
scorcho said:
the greatest problem is whether Congress should interfere on this matter, setting off a rather nasty historical presidence. this is also attempting to pass a bill that's squarely limited at ONE person and not at large.
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This is what bothers me. This is a law designed to retroactively change the legal situation for one single person. It seems like a really bad idea to take that measure. It's not the same thing as being tried for something that wasn't illegal when you did it, but the similarity is striking.
 
P

peedi

Banned
I'm conflicted about this. While I believe the right-wing furor over this is nothing more than political grandstanding, I find myself disgusted by the liberal reluctance to cast aside political differences and stand alongside a family pained by the selfish cruelty of her husband. Various medical experts agree that this woman is not braindead, yet we're witnessing a liberal campaign to stave off any resistance to a man endeavoring to starve his infirm ex-wife to death. That's inexcusably shameful and leaves me an embarrassed liberal.

Republicans promote and institute policy that leaves millions in our country starving and malnourished, so their push to replace her feeding tube is a hollow gesture for political gain. However, liberals, similarly, are siding with the execution of this woman solely out of spite -- which is just plain wrong.

The man has all but divorced himself from every facet of her life, save for lording over her health. Allow the parents to decide what's best for their child.
 
shoplifter

shoplifter

Member
Various medical experts agree that this woman is not braindead, yet we're witnessing a liberal campaign to stave off any resistance to a man endeavoring to starve his infirm ex-wife to death. That's inexcusably shameful and leaves me an embarrassed liberal.
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IIRC, the doctors who have 'examined' her did so from a VIDEO, not in person. In fact, those who examined her in person agree unanimously that she is indeed in PVS.
 
S

ShadowRed

Banned
shoplifter said:
IIRC, the doctors who have 'examined' her did so from a VIDEO, not in person.
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And on top of it they were paid by the family so of course they are going to claim she isn't brain dead.
 
V

videogamer

Banned
Incognito said:
By now most people who read liberal blogs are aware that George W. Bush signed a law in Texas that expressly gave hospitals the right to remove life support if the patient could not pay and there was no hope of revival, regardless of the patient's family's wishes. It is called the Texas Futile Care Law. Under this law, a baby was removed from life support against his mother's wishes in Texas just this week. A 68 year old man was given a temporary reprieve by the Texas courts just yesterday.
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Was not aware of that yet. Considering that both Delay and Bush are Texans, I wonder what their views on the law were when it passed. From what I understand, the cases that involved the Texas Futile Care law do not involve feuding family members, and it is the hospital that decides to stop life support. Interesting that a law that facilitates the decision by non-family members to remove life support passes through without the same kind of noise by Evangelicals and their pandering politicians that Shiavo received.
 
strikeselect

strikeselect

You like me, you really really like me!
I love how our government ignores the constitution. These fucking conservatives are doing whatever the fuck they want.
 
G

GLoK

Member
peedi said:
I'm conflicted about this. While I believe the right-wing furor over this is nothing more than political grandstanding, I find myself disgusted by the liberal reluctance to cast aside political differences and stand alongside a family pained by the selfish cruelty of her husband. Various medical experts agree that this woman is not braindead, yet we're witnessing a liberal campaign to stave off any resistance to a man endeavoring to starve his infirm ex-wife to death. That's inexcusably shameful and leaves me an embarrassed liberal.

Republicans promote and institute policy that leaves millions in our country starving and malnourished, so their push to replace her feeding tube is a hollow gesture for political gain. However, liberals, similarly, are siding with the execution of this woman solely out of spite -- which is just plain wrong.

The man has all but divorced himself from every facet of her life, save for lording over her health. Allow the parents to decide what's best for their child.
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GAH. You can't POSSIBLY be this stupid. It hurts my brain!

This point has been brought up and shot down at least 3 or 4 times in this thread already. It has been discussed that any doctor that has supervised over her first hand is 100% in saying that she is in a PVS.

The only doctors who have said otherwise have been paid by Schiavo's family and have made their expert analysis based on 15 MINUTES OF VIDEO FOOTAGE.

Let's put this into crystal clear perspective. Experts who have supervised and cared for Mrs. Schiavo personally vs. Experts who have never seen Mrs. Schiavo personally and are under the pay roll of her parents who want the tube in.

PUT THE CLUES TOGETHER SHERLOCK.
 
T

Triumph

Banned
Man, it would be awesome if she somehow turned out to be an al quaeda operative. Then how would these Republicans feel!
 
P

peedi

Banned
GLoK said:
GAH. You can't POSSIBLY be this stupid. It hurts my brain!

This point has been brought up and shot down at least 3 or 4 times in this thread already. It has been discussed that any doctor that has supervised over her first hand is 100% in saying that she is in a PVS.

The only doctors who have said otherwise have been paid by Schiavo's family and have made their expert analysis based on 15 MINUTES OF VIDEO FOOTAGE.

Let's put this into crystal clear perspective. Experts who have supervised and cared for Mrs. Schiavo personally vs. Experts who have never seen Mrs. Schiavo personally and are under the pay roll of her parents who want the tube in.

PUT THE CLUES TOGETHER SHERLOCK.
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I guess most of my anger should be directed towards those liberals who would exploit this for political gain. Why are they intervening on behalf of the husband? What political stake exists in this tragedy? Yes, we've established that she's braindead. OK. Now, with that uncomfortable bit of trivia tucked away, who is Nancy Pelosi, as a LIBERAL, to defend this egregious act of cruelty? Who are these other liberal lackeys to scream in outrage at conservatives who simply want to leave that feeding tube in? Is this what the Democratic party has been reduced to? A pandering, unprincipled pack of murderers? I am anything but a conservative, but the Dems disgust me. They're forcing this woman's parents, the man and woman who birthed and raised her, to watch their daughter starve to death.

I don't care about "experts." Where is the compassion for the parents? Why not allow them to decide whether their daughter should starve to death?
 
I

Incognito

Troll
peedi said:
I guess most of my anger should be directed towards those liberals who would exploit this for political gain. Why are they intervening on behalf of the husband? What political stake exists in this tragedy? Yes, we've established that she's braindead. OK. Now, with that uncomfortable bit of trivia tucked away, who is Nancy Pelosi, as a LIBERAL, to defend this egregious act of cruelty? Who are these other liberal lackeys to scream in outrage at conservatives who simply want to leave that feeding tube in? Is this what the Democratic party has been reduced to? A pandering, unprincipled pack of murderers? I am anything but a conservative, but the Dems disgust me. They're forcing this woman's parents, the man and woman who birthed and raised her, to watch their daughter starve to death.

I don't care about "experts." Where is the compassion for the parents? Why not allow them to decide whether their daughter should starve to death?
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Uh, why has it taken 15 years for the conservatives to all of the sudden intervene? Where were they when her tube was removed last time?

Should Democrats and Liberals roll over and die every time these fucking wackjobs pull something out of their hat that completely goes against the constitution?

I fucking WISH, WISH a Democrat would stand on the steps of Congress and denounce this shit for what it is:

Nothing but a political powerplay.
 
shoplifter

shoplifter

Member
peedi said:
I don't care about "experts." Where is the compassion for the parents? Why not allow them to decide whether their daughter should starve to death?
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Why not allow the fucking HUSBAND to decide whether his wife will live on as a husk of a body being fed.
 
G

GLoK

Member
Raoul Duke said:
Man, it would be awesome if she somehow turned out to be an al quaeda operative. Then how would these Republicans feel!
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:lol

I'm picturing her snapping out of her vegetative state and yelling "LITTLE DO THE STUPID AMERICANS KNOW WE HAVE PLANS TO TAKE DOWN THE WORLD TRADE CENTER!"
 
K

Kobun Heat

Member
There have been a couple of indictments of the doctors based on the fact that they were paid to offer their opinions. This isn't sufficient reason to discount them.

But just in case you believe it is, guess what? The doctors who said she was in a PVS? Paid. With money. In fact, the one who argued it before the court (which led to the judge's finding of fact that she was in a PVS and thus all this) was a paid expert witness who specializes in arguing in favor of removing life support/feeding tubes.

Thus, if you outright reject the opinions of doctors who are paid for their testimony, then you're saying you don't believe the husband's side either.
 
M

maharg

idspispopd
peedi said:
I guess most of my anger should be directed towards those liberals who would exploit this for political gain.
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Uh, what? Where's the intervention? The law as it stands is on his side in every possible way. The only intervention happening here is on the conservative side.
 
P

peedi

Banned
Incognito said:
Uh, why has it taken 15 years for the conservatives to all of the sudden intervene? Where were they when her tube was removed last time?

Should Democrats and Liberals roll over and die every time these fucking wackjobs pull something out of their hat that completely goes against the constitution?

I fucking WISH, WISH a Democrat would stand on the steps of Congress and denounce this shit for what it is:

Nothing but a political powerplay.
Click to expand...

The constitution takes precedence over human life? Political powerplay? By many Republicans? I'll grant you that. However, how do you define the behavior of the Democratic party, which has absolutely no stake in this? You have prominent liberals coming out in support of state-sanctioned murder. The very same liberals who oppose the death penalty. The contradiction would be astounding if it weren't predictably emblematic of a failed party that's degenerated into reflexive parrots. This is a woman's life, yet all they're concerned with is oneupsmanship.
 
D

DaMan121

Member
Um.. I dont know any doctors who work for free. And like Shoplifter said, the least you could do is go there an examine her.

1 Corinthians 7:4
The wife's body does not belong to her alone but also to her husband. In the same way, the husband's body does not belong to him alone but also to his wife.
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Maybe the fundies should read their book once in a while..

This is a woman's life, yet all they're concerned with is oneupsmanship.
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This womens life ended 15 years ago.
 
D

Dilbert

Member
I guess most of my anger should be directed towards those conservatives who would exploit this for political gain. Why are they intervening on behalf of the parents? What political stake exists in this tragedy? Yes, we've established that she's braindead. OK. Now, with that uncomfortable bit of trivia tucked away, who is Tom Delay, as a CONSERVATIVE, to defend this blatant rewriting of the law? Who are these other conservative lackeys to scream in outrage at liberals who simply want to stick up for separation of powers? Is this what the Republican party has been reduced to? A pandering, unprincipled pack of exploiters? I am anything but a liberal, but the Reps disgust me.
 
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