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Jury finds Oklahoma cop not guilty in shooting of black man

F

F34R

Member
theignoramus said:
I recommend everyone avoid wasting their time watching this right wing concoction of distortions, fabrications, alternative facts and victim blaming. Shame on you for posting #FAKENEWS.
Now for a rebuttal to the nonsense you just posted.https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-nation/wp/2016/07/11/arent-more-white-people-than-black-people-killed-by-police-yes-but-no/?utm_term=.f9d84ed7e3ba

Ill say it again for the people in the back:
Click to expand...

/facepalm well, which is why I deleted it.
The numbers are there, I'm not going to argue it. There's no point. You're right, and that link was trash and I shouldn't have put it up there without doing a little more research. Thanks for the extra info.
 
G

GoldenCrow

Member
After watching the OJ documentary that won an Oscar (not the Cuba Gooding Jr. one, its O.J.: Made in America) and consistently seeing news like this the only thing I can think of is that this is never going to change whilst the USA exists in its current form. Its beyond fucked up.
 
F

F34R

Member
GoldenCrow said:
After watching the OJ documentary that won an Oscar (not the Cuba Gooding Jr. one, its O.J.: Made in America) and consistently seeing news like this the only thing I can think of is that this is never going to change whilst the USA exists in its current form. Its beyond fucked up.
Click to expand...

I don't think there will ever be a perfect system.
 
E

Ettie

Member
Jury foreman wrote a statement for the record. Still reading.

http://www.news9.com/story/35473598/jury-foremen-writes-open-letter-following-betty-shelby-verdict



Also, anonymous juror interview.

http://www.news9.com/story/35470047...shelby-should-never-be-a-patrol-officer-again





Sounds like the prosecution didn't put enough effort in to get a conviction. If the jury didn't come away with an understanding of what the officer's training required, someone was intentionally leaving questions unasked.
 
YourMaster

YourMaster

Member
theignoramus said:
I recommend everyone avoid wasting their time watching this right wing concoction of distortions, fabrications, alternative facts and victim blaming. Shame on you for posting #FAKENEWS.
Now for a rebuttal to the nonsense you just posted.https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-nation/wp/2016/07/11/arent-more-white-people-than-black-people-killed-by-police-yes-but-no/?utm_term=.f9d84ed7e3ba
Click to expand...

Police have shot and killed a young black man (ages 18 to 29) — such as Michael Brown in Ferguson, Mo. —175 times since January 2015; 24 of them were unarmed. Over that same period, police have shot and killed 172 young white men, 18 of whom were unarmed. Once again, while in raw numbers there were similar totals of white and black victims, blacks were killed at rates disproportionate to their percentage of the U.S. population. Of all of the unarmed people shot and killed by police in 2015, 40 percent of them were black men, even though black men make up just 6 percent of the nation’s population
Click to expand...

You do realize that the rebuttal you link is not a rebuttal but actually supports the claim that cops are 'color blind'. Which is something I do not believe at all, but those figures you link do seem to show that. Shooting (at least) 40 people unnecessary out of 350 people shot is a horrible statistic in its own right, but here absolute population numbers do not matter. The Washington post numbers show that if you get shot by the police you have about a 15% chance of being unarmed, irrespective if you're black or white, so they have a consistent 'false positive rate'.
When targeting mostly black people you'd suspect there being much more innocent victims in that group.

Now more on topic, I don't doubt people in juries find it easier to identify with people who look like them then with those that don't look like them, which is a big problem in it's own right in cases like this, but I still find it unfathomable that they somehow manage to find a jury full of people who are unwilling to convict this cop. That alone is not a good sign for society at large.
 
F

F34R

Member
Lowmelody said:
You're trying so hard to ignore the fact that a black mans life is worth less than a dogs in america.
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You're trying to equate one case with the other and that's just ridiculous. Then you are assuming shit about me that just isn't remotely true at all. I was involved in a handful of cases where I would have been 100% justified to shoot a suspect, all African-Americans, but I didn't. Two examples, one guy ran at me with a baseball bat and the other had a fucking sword and an axe. Then, instead of watching an African-American boy get run over by a car, I jumped in the road and pushed him out of the way and I got hit by the car and suffered damage that will be on me forever. Don't sit here and try and spin shit that I don't give a damn about other people; that's regardless of race, etc.

Did you even read about the other case? It didn't simply have to do with a dog. This guy shot the dog, and fired at four other officers. He PLEAD GUILTY.

With the other case, where unfortunately that man died, the defendant took her chances and rolled the dice with a jury. I would have found her guilty. I only say this based on my training, and I would have used the taser at least.
 
L

Lowmelody

Member
F34R said:
You're trying to equate one case with the other and that's just ridiculous. Then you are assuming shit about me that just isn't remotely true at all. I was involved in a handful of cases where I would have been 100% justified to shoot a suspect, all African-Americans, but I didn't. Two examples, one guy ran at me with a baseball bat and the other had a fucking sword and an axe. Then, instead of watching an African-American boy get run over by a car, I jumped in the road and pushed him out of the way and I got hit by the car and suffered damage that will be on me forever. Don't sit here and try and spin shit that I don't give a damn about other people; that's regardless of race, etc.

Did you even read about the other case? It didn't simply have to do with a dog. This guy shot the dog, and fired at four other officers. He PLEAD GUILTY.

With the other case, where unfortunately that man died, the defendant took her chances and rolled the dice with a jury. I would have found her guilty. I only say this based on my training, and I would have used the taser at least.
Click to expand...

When a black man is shot and murdered on tape and their murderer set free by the american court system that means we as a county do not value their lives, straight up. If that wasn't true, then someone getting 19 years for shooting a dog and at officers wouldn't register on most people's radar. But we live in the reality where black men are consistently murdered by police without justice. In that context, any sentence involving the life an animal is a dark reminder that black dudes are below them.

You keep bringing up the procedural differences in the cases but they are equivalent where it matters as there was no ambiguity in who the shooters were in either cases, the difference and point of contention is one involved something people care about (life of a dog) and one involved something no one cared about. (life of a black man)

To get around that you would have to establish that our system, from cops to the court places value on black lives, only then do we get to think about the lives of animals.
 
U

Usobuko

Banned
By the time equality reaches coloured folks, won't it be far too late?

The 4th industrial revolution is here already and biases / prejudices continue exist, not to mention outright life-and-death matter for them. Democracy and Meritocracy are worthless ideology when bulk of the population are garbage people. It's just false assurance to calm the people they want to see at the bottom of the food chain.
 
K

kirblar

Member
Ettie said:
Sounds like the prosecution didn't put enough effort in to get a conviction. If the jury didn't come away with an understanding of what the officer's training required, someone was intentionally leaving questions unasked.
Click to expand...
Yup, this part:
He said that while he never came out and said he felt Shelby was guilty, he will always regret not “hanging the jury.”

“At one point I talked with another juror about just hanging the jury, and making the state try the case again,” he said. “We really agreed that if they did a better job, they could have convicted her. And maybe the right thing to do was just make them do it again, maybe they do something different and a different jury convicts her.
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seems to make it a combo of the law being an issue and the prosecution being an issue.
 
Diatribe1974

Diatribe1974

Member
Most of the time when someone makes a bullshit accusation in which police are accused of murdering someone for no reason, its just that: Bullshit. Its just someone who dislikes the police in general. But, then there are times in which it is true and this is one of those cases. Yes, most accusations are false and are easily dismissed, but things like this, that unless there's something we have not been told about, are a clear cut example of someone who does not deserve a badge, but deserves to be in jail.
 
F

F34R

Member
HawksWinStanley said:
How the hell did you handle the sword and axe guy?
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I had my gun pointed at him and yelled stop. He was coming out of the back door and he stopped. I knew this guy. I've dealt with him for 10 years. I pleaded him, by his first name, to not move towards me and to drop it all. I kept repeating it. I begged him not to make me shoot him. It literally went on for a minute but seemed like an hour. He was trying to figure out what to do. I just stood there and waited to see what he'd do. If he would have picked his foot up, he was going down. He dropped both. I took a few steps back and told him to walk the same as me. If I took a step back, you take a step forward. When he got a few yards away from the stuff, I told him to stay still and I circled around him and got in between the weapons and him. I told him to get to the ground, lay down and spread his arms out wide. I asked him to look away. I holstered, approached cuffed him.

DiatribeEQ said:
Most of the time when someone makes a bullshit accusation in which police are accused of murdering someone for no reason, its just that: Bullshit. Its just someone who dislikes the police in general. But, then there are times in which it is true and this is one of those cases. Yes, most accusations are false and are easily dismissed, but things like this, that unless there's something we have not been told about, are a clear cut example of someone who does not deserve a badge, but deserves to be in jail.
Click to expand...
I've been there. Not in the sense when a fatality was involved, but accused of bull shit. I had a civil rights complaint filed against me, and a woman tried to press charges on me for punching her in the chest.

editing to detail that...

The civil rights complaint came because I wrote traffic tickets to 56% African-American people. When we addressed it in court.. the jurisdiction I policed in was 73% African-American, 23% White. My statistics were 56% tickets written to African-American drivers, 42% white drivers, and 2% "other". Yeah..

The assault allegation...

My partner and I went to a house to serve a warrant. Old lady comes to door, and we ask if her son is there, and what we were there for. She said he wasn't there. We asked if we could search the house. She agreed. We searched the house, he wasn't there, we left. About two blocks down the street, we see him, grab him, serve warrant. Two days later, woman comes to the department and files a complaint because I supposedly punched her in the chest. She showed the bruising. They suspended me while the investigation was on going.

When they called me in and told me that, I immediately went to my evidence locker, pulled the car camera tape and body came recording and made copies of it. I didn't want anything coming back in me. So, the footage showed what happened "word for word" how I explained it in the last paragraph. I had to be questioned by the FBI, and take a polygraph, EVEN AFTER they saw the videos.

Also, in regards to the boy whose life I freakin' saved. Their family wanted to sue me because I pushed him too hard and he hurt is arm. wtf.
 
J

jetjevons

Bish loves my games!
F34R said:
I had my gun pointed at him and yelled stop. He was coming out of the back door and he stopped. I knew this guy. I've dealt with him for 10 years. I pleaded him, by his first name, to not move towards me and to drop it all. I kept repeating it. I begged him not to make me shoot him. It literally went on for a minute but seemed like an hour. He was trying to figure out what to do. I just stood there and waited to see what he'd do. If he would have picked his foot up, he was going down. He dropped both. I took a few steps back and told him to walk the same as me. If I took a step back, you take a step forward. When he got a few yards away from the stuff, I told him to stay still and I circled around him and got in between the weapons and him. I told him to get to the ground, lay down and spread his arms out wide. I asked him to look away. I holstered, approached cuffed him...
Click to expand...

Holy shit. Good on you, man. You saved his life by de-escalating.
 
J

Jmanunknown

Member
Budi said:
This is insane, when there will be change to all of this.
Click to expand...

We all just have to accept the fact that racism and bias have a major factor in how certain minorities are treated when it comes to the justice system and continue to try to push for better police training and more accountability because as of right now their will be more Terence Crutcher's, Akai Gurley's, John Crawford's Michael Brown's, Eric Garner's, Ezell Ford's, Tamir rice's Rumain Brisbon's Eric Harris's,Walter Scott's,Freddie Gray's, Alton Sterling, and Philando Castile. Its sad but that is the reality we live in.
 
B

Budi

Member
Jmanunknown said:
We all just have to accept the fact that racism and bias have a major factor in how certain minorities are treated when it comes to the justice system and continue to try to push for better police training and more accountability because as of right now their will be more Terence Crutcher's, Akai Gurley's, John Crawford's Michael Brown's, Eric Garner's, Ezell Ford's, Tamir rice's Rumain Brisbon's Eric Harris's,Walter Scott's,Freddie Gray's, Alton Sterling, and Philando Castile. Its sad but that is the reality we live in.
Click to expand...

Yeah to someone who is outside of US things almost seem to go for worse in there. I remember Rodney King who wasn't even killed and it was a huge deal back then and there was some consequences. Now I too regularly read about police killing African Americans and even getting away with it.

kirblar said:
Demographic change and technological advancement (Cable, Internet) are meshing together in really ugly ways in a lot of the United States: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1377486
Click to expand...

Thanks, I'll need to read that.
 
K

kirblar

Member
Budi said:
Yeah to someone who is outside of US things almost seem to go for worse in there. I remember Rodney King who wasn't even killed and it was a huge deal back then and there was some consequences. Now I too regularly read about police killing African Americans and even getting away with it.
Click to expand...
Demographic change and technological advancement (Cable, Internet) are meshing together in really ugly ways in a lot of the United States: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1377486
 
H

hbkdx12

Member
That's a got damn shame. Fuck these jurors man. Their reasoning is so got damn flimsy. So you don't convict her on manslaughter because you believe she may have been acting in accordance with her training and that any other officer would have done the same thing but if she's trained to shoot before a lethal threat even presents itself, why would she even have a fucking taser to begin with? Why did the other cop use their taser?

There should literally be no reason to justify a police officer using lethal force 1) in a situation where there is no lethal threat and 2) when they're already equipped with non lethal means to handle non lethal situations.
 
T

theignoramus

Member
YourMaster said:
You do realize that the rebuttal you link is not a rebuttal but actually supports the claim that cops are 'color blind'. Which is something I do not believe at all, but those figures you link do seem to show that. Shooting (at least) 40 people unnecessary out of 350 people shot is a horrible statistic in its own right, but here absolute population numbers do not matter. The Washington post numbers show that if you get shot by the police you have about a 15% chance of being unarmed, irrespective if you're black or white, so they have a consistent 'false positive rate'.
When targeting mostly black people you'd suspect there being much more innocent victims in that group.
Click to expand...
What the hell are you talking about? The article doesnt show that at all, unless youve selectively cherry picked the portion of the article that supports your claim. The entire second half of the article is a concentrated rebuttal of your claim.
And, when considering shootings confined within a single race, a black person shot and killed by police is more likely to have been unarmed than a white person. About 13 percent of all black people who have been fatally shot by police since January 2015 were unarmed, compared with 7 percent of all white people.
Click to expand...

It even included a rebuttal for the argument you're repeating here, which is that more cop engagement with Black citizens means more will get shot.

“Such a concentration of criminal violence in minority communities means that officers will be disproportionately confronting armed and often resisting suspects in those communities, raising officers’ own risk of using lethal force,” wrote Heather Mac Donald, a conservative researcher, in a Wall Street Journal column headlined “The Myths of Black Lives Matter” that was originally published in February and re-published this weekend. The assertion that the black men and women killed by police are primarily violent criminals and the explanation for racial disparities in who gets killed by law enforcement is the premise of Mac Donald’s new book, “The War on Cops.”

“Blacks are three times as likely to be killed by cops as are whites, on a per-capita basis,” Peter Moskos, a former Baltimore police officer and criminal justice researcher at John Jay College of Criminal Justice told the New York Times last April. “But part of that is because of crime in predominantly black neighborhoods.”

Despite these arguments, police reform advocates and researchers as well at The Post’s own analysis has consistently concluded that there is no correlation between violent crime and who is killed by police officers.

. A report released last week by the Center for Policing Equity, which reviewed arrest and use-of-force data from 12 police departments, concluded that black residents were more often targeted for use of police force than white residents, even when adjusting for whether the person was a violent criminal.

“We’ve been hearing these arguments going around without any data or any evidence from folks who are saying that police are killing so many people — particularly black people — because they say black people are in high-crime communities and potentially involved in criminal activity,” Samuel Sinyangwe, a data analyst and activist with Campaign Zero — a policy-oriented activist collective associated with the Black Lives Matter protest movement — told the Huffington Post in December.
Click to expand...


In a report covering 2015 data, Campaign Zero compared violent crime rates of 50 major cities to the rate at which police officers killed people, concluding that there was no correlation.
As part of its data effort, The Post tracks the “threat level” of each person who is shot and killed by a police officer: Were they shooting at the officer? Were they threatening the officer? Were they fleeing?
Click to expand...

Overall, the majority of the people who have been shot and killed by police officers in 2015 and 2016 were, based on publicly available evidence, armed with a weapon and attempting to attack the officer or someone else.

But an independent analysis of The Post’s data conducted by a team of criminal-justice researchers concluded that, when factoring in threat level, black Americans who are fatally shot by police are no more likely to be posing an imminent lethal threat to the officers at the moment they are killed than white Americans fatally shot by police.



The study also sought to answer whether officers were more likely to shoot and kill someone who is unarmed if the shooting happened to occur in a high-crime area. They concluded that is not the case.

“The only thing that was significant in predicting whether someone shot and killed by police was unarmed was whether or not they were black,” said Justin Nix, a criminal-justice researcher at the University of Louisville and one of the report’s authors, said in April. “Crime variables did not matter in terms of predicting whether the person killed was unarmed.”

“This just bolsters our confidence that there is some sort of implicit bias going on,” Nix said. “Officers are perceiving a greater threat when encountered by unarmed black citizens.”
Click to expand...
 
G

Goodstyle

Member
Black men have known for decades that if you so much as glance at the wrong white woman, your life is forfeit. A lot of things have changed, but at the same time, nothing at all.
 
B

Black Republican

Member
Bumping this thread because theres good news right?


Nope!

Ex-Tulsa Officer Betty Shelby, Acquitted in Fatal Shooting, to Work for Sheriff’s Office

TULSA, Okla. — A white former Tulsa police officer who resigned after being acquitted of manslaughter in the fatal shooting of an unarmed black man is going to work for the sheriff's office in a neighboring county.

Rogers County Sheriff Scott Walton told reporters in Tulsa that Betty Shelby will work for his office. He did not say what her duties will be, but he has scheduled a news conference for Thursday morning.
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http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news...ting-work-sheriff-n791436?cid=sm_npd_nn_tw_ma
 
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