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Jury sides with Hulk Hogan in his sex tape lawsuit against Gawker & awards him $115m

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twinturbo2

butthurt Heat fan
If you guys can't get over the "herp derp Gawker got what was coming to them, Hulkamania is running wild" phase, I don't know if I can help you, but at least read these two op-eds first before replying to this.

https://t.co/QqAD7LpIv0
https://freedom.press/blog/2016/08/some-questions-those-who-are-cheering-gawkers-demise

Oh! There's a Silicon Valley startup that's using Big Data to automate and predict lawsuits like this.

https://t.co/wpvC77iBjT

And guess who gave that startup $100K to get off the ground? Go on!
 
Maybe on Bizzaro-Earth but back here on our Earth Gawker won't be remembered at all in 5 years.

Turned to dust in the wind by the Hogan-Thiel tag team.

Gawker's style permeates the internet in general (and ironically this thread). They didn't invent it but they made it mainstream on the internet, the snarky response and self-assured moral rectitude in indictments of people you disagree with.

People didn't write that way pre-2002 on a prominent site. Gawker wrote like twitter before twitter.

and it was in the top 500 sites in the world for a long ass time. Its alumni continue in other prestigious outlets. Its influence is much wider than a racist wrestler

This is pretty cool. Thiel has invested in a few A.I. and big data projects, as well as genetics and anti-aging research.

Its not pretty cool, its a fascist wanting a way to automatize his fascism so pesky untermensch don't get in his way.
 

JackDT

Member
Do you think it’s fair and just that more than a half dozen individual reporters are still being sued by Peter Thiel’s lawyer in those non-Hogan related cases, and that Thiel’s legal team is attempting to prevent Gawker paying for the legal defense of those individuals as well? Should individual reporters face serious threat of bankruptcy for posts their employer assigned, sanctioned and published (and again, are protected by the First Amendment)?

Wow.
 
The fact that the same three or four people still trump for Gawker when it was so fucking obvious that they broke the law and were flippant in accepting court orders is hilariously sad.

There's a time and a place to die on the hill of freedom of the press. Gawker isn't it.
 

Mumei

Member
The fact that the same three or four people still trump for Gawker when it was so fucking obvious that they broke the law and were flippant in accepting court orders is hilariously sad.

There's a time and a place to die on the hill of freedom of the press. Gawker isn't it.

I remember when they were flippant about accepting a court order (to take down the video, right?), but I don't recall when they broke the law. What are you talking about?

And this is a five month old topic. It would be surprising if more than a handful people of any persuasion were participating in it, nor is the number of people willing to represent a particular viewpoint evidence of that position's merit or lack thereof.
 
The fact that the same three or four people still trump for Gawker when it was so fucking obvious that they broke the law and were flippant in accepting court orders is hilariously sad.

There's a time and a place to die on the hill of freedom of the press. Gawker isn't it.

Gawker defenders still can't tell me why they think a world where journalists can post links to revenge porn for money is a good thing. That would be a massive nightmare.
 
I remember when they were flippant about accepting a court order (to take down the video, right?), but I don't recall when they broke the law. What are you talking about?

And this is a five month old topic. It would be surprising if more than a handful people of any persuasion were participating in it, nor is the number of people willing to represent a particular viewpoint evidence of that position's merit or lack thereof.

No they took down the video. They didn't take down the words and posted a hyperlink to another site that hosted it. The federal courts told them the original order.

And its not like journalists have always listened to court orders when they feel they are illegal (including videos)

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/04/0...ora-judge-over-refusal-to-reveal-sources.html

https://www.washingtonpost.com/blog...-judges-order/2011/07/07/gIQAKTQA2H_blog.html

http://www.wsj.com/articles/supreme...ournalists-right-to-protect-source-1401716776

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/07/07/politics/reporter-jailed-after-refusing-to-name-source.html

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Josh_Wolf_(journalist)

Bigger List
http://www.firstamendmentcenter.org...loads/2011/05/Jailed-subpoenaed-timeline1.pdf
 

Acorn

Member
Gawker defenders still can't tell me why they think a world where journalists can post links to revenge porn for money is a good thing. That would be a massive nightmare.
That's a bit disingenuous. The majority of people uneasy about this that I've seen and am apart of is worried about the precedent this sets for the powerful to shut down voices they don't like.

Essentially Gawkers idiocy has allowed Thiel to prove to others there is a way to destroy troublesome media outlets. I have very, very rarely if ever seen anyone defend Gawkers horrible practices.
 

TheYanger

Member
That's a bit disingenuous. The majority of people uneasy about this that I've seen and am apart of is worried about the precedent this sets for the powerful to shut down voices they don't like.

Essentially Gawkers idiocy has allowed Thiel to prove to others there is a way to destroy troublesome media outlets. I have very, very rarely if ever seen anyone defend Gawkers horrible practices.

No, it sets a precedent that he can shut down COMPANIES THAT ARE ILLEGALLY HARMING PEOPLE. Not just 'don't like'. Stop perpetuating the narrative that that's what happened because it's not. If he could just pay money to shut them down because he wanted to, it wouldn't have taken them beraking the law for him to do it.

He should be able to do this. The only problem? You or I cannot. THATS the problem.
 
Should the Daily Beast get the journalistic death penalty for their article outing gay athletes at the Olympics last month? 🤔

If they are found to have caused enough financial damage through their incredibly irresponsible actions? If they did I wouldn't shed a tear for them.
 
Over a single article? Are you sure bro?

If that happens it happens. Why should I feel sorry for people feeling consequences for their actions? If one incredibly egregious and abhorrent act makes it no longer financially viable for them to stay in business (which is what is happening here, the way you and other Gawker defenders make it seem like the judge ordered them to shut down) then that's on them. Why should I give a fuck? If a restaurant knowingly refuses service to minorities, and that causes them so much financial hardship that they have to fire all their employees (many of them innocent) and shut down business, will you feel sorry for them? Will you say it's setting a bad precedent?
 

Mumei

Member
If that happens it happens. Why should I feel sorry for people feeling consequences for their actions? If one incredibly egregious and abhorrent act makes it no longer financially viable for them to stay in business (which is what is happening here, the way you and other Gawker defenders make it seem like the judge ordered them to shut down) then that's on them. Why should I give a fuck? If a restaurant knowingly refuses service to minorities, and that causes them so much financial hardship that they have to fire all their employees (many of them innocent) and shut down business, will you feel sorry for them? Will you say it's setting a bad precedent?

That's not analogous.

And I think you should reconsider your position, or at least look at it from a broader perspective. Did you read the article twinturbo2 posted? You should find this deeply disconcerting if you care about a free and independent press. I don't think the danger is that companies are going to start dropping like flies, necessarily. I think the danger is rather that in order to avoid offending the sensibilities of a particularly litigious billionaire. If the costs are raised to the point where one misjudged article combined with the right judge and the right jury and the right jurisdiction could kill a paper, it's going to significantly lower the willingness to risk certain kinds of coverage. If the risk is that one misjudged piece could potentially lead to the dissolution of a newspaper or a magazine, the danger is that this will lead to self-censorship. Even if you argue (as you could) that it would take something truly egregious - Hulk Hogan being filmed on a sex tape and releasing it to the world egregious - in order for this risk to be realistic, the automation of this process also makes it easier to facilitate multiple lawsuits, and bleed out a company through simple court costs.

I'm sympathetic to the argument that posting a sex tape of someone against their wishes is egregious. I don't let people take pictures of me, let alone video, let alone that. I think that the case is more complicated than you do, clearly, but I can sympathize with it. But even if you think that in this specific instance that Gawker deserved to go, you should still worry about the bigger picture. I think you're being naive in thinking that this case is sui generis and does not have the potential for broader implications. I think that your antipathy to Gawker and desire to defend the outcome of this particular case leads you to stake out a position that simply isn't compatible with having a press that is financially viable without the patronage of an owner independently wealthy enough to withstand litigation and to fight it.

Well, in any event, I hope I explained myself well enough that you understand my position.
 

jorma

is now taking requests
No, this is a good outcome. Now the free press got a nice reminder that they aren't "above the law", and clearly they thought they were with their flippant behaviour in court, what with the "i'd publish nudes if they were older than 5" remarks and bullshit like that.

So the next time a juicy revenge celebrity porn tape surfaces the next gawker wannabe publication will think very carefully before posting it. Most people should find this a good thing.

If one thinks that Hogan got justice here, the main concern should be that he would never have gotten justice without the patronage of a billionaire.
 
Guys, we should let journalists get away with literally anything and everything. Attempting to impose "laws" and "rules" on them is pretty much fascism.
 

Tonedeff

Member
Man it's fascinating to see how much respect the news media has lost. Can't say they didn't bring it on themselves though with shit like Gawker's existence
 

Mumei

Member
No, this is a good outcome. Now the free press got a nice reminder that they aren't "above the law", and clearly they thought they were with their flippant behaviour in court, what with the "i'd publish nudes if they were older than 5" remarks and bullshit like that.

So the next time a juicy revenge celebrity porn tape surfaces the next gawker wannabe publication will think very carefully before posting it. Most people should find this a good thing.

If one thinks that Hogan got justice here, the main concern should be that he would never have gotten justice without the patronage of a billionaire.

A.J. Daulerio is not "the free press," so let's not pretend that the two are interchangeable. And as for reminders about the law, it ought to give you pause that a federal judge and a federal appeals court said that what Gawker published in this case was both "newsworthy" (in the admittedly contentious legal sense of the word) and protected by the First Amendment. Gawker did not lose the case because it "broke the law" in the sense that you are clearly thinking, and this case does not provide a reminder (one is not needed) that the "free press" is not above the law. There's maybe a better argument you could make that Gawker broke a social norm, and they were punished by the jury for this.

Guys, we should let journalists get away with literally anything and everything. Attempting to impose "laws" and "rules" on them is pretty much fascism.

If this is a response to the argument I made, you did not understand the argument that I made, or you are misrepresenting me in order to score a cheap point.
 

jorma

is now taking requests
A.J. Daulerio is not "the free press," so let's not pretend that the two are interchangeable. And as for reminders about the law, it ought to give you pause that a federal judge and a federal appeals court said that what Gawker published in this case was both "newsworthy" (in the admittedly contentious legal sense of the word) and protected by the First Amendment. Gawker did not lose the case because it "broke the law" in the sense that you are clearly thinking, and this case does not provide a reminder (one is not needed) that the "free press" is not above the law. There's maybe a better argument you could make that Gawker broke a social norm, and they were punished by the jury for this.



If this is a response to the argument I made, you did not understand the argument that I made, or you are misrepresenting me in order to score a cheap point.

How are they not the free press? I don't get the distinction you're trying to make, because there isn't one. TMZ, Aftonbladet, The Guardian and Bild are also part of the free press as i've always used the word, as opposed to press that isn't free. Like North Korean publications to go to the other extreme end of the spectrum.

And it doesn't really give me pause, because i think that federal judge was wrong to say it was protected speech, and because their behaviour in court made it obvious they thought they were above the law. A cold shower for the free press was very much needed.

I know they didn't break the law, technically. But i think what they did should have been considered a crime, just like that other dude who got sent to jail for hosting a girlfriend revenge porn site. I very much agree with the jury that wanted the defendants to be sentenced to community service.
It shouldn't become newsworthy just because your victim is famous.
 

Aselith

Member
That's not analogous.

And I think you should reconsider your position, or at least look at it from a broader perspective. Did you read the article twinturbo2 posted? You should find this deeply disconcerting if you care about a free and independent press. I don't think the danger is that companies are going to start dropping like flies, necessarily. I think the danger is rather that in order to avoid offending the sensibilities of a particularly litigious billionaire. If the costs are raised to the point where one misjudged article combined with the right judge and the right jury and the right jurisdiction could kill a paper, it's going to significantly lower the willingness to risk certain kinds of coverage. If the risk is that one misjudged piece could potentially lead to the dissolution of a newspaper or a magazine, the danger is that this will lead to self-censorship. Even if you argue (as you could) that it would take something truly egregious - Hulk Hogan being filmed on a sex tape and releasing it to the world egregious - in order for this risk to be realistic, the automation of this process also makes it easier to facilitate multiple lawsuits, and bleed out a company through simple court costs.

I'm sympathetic to the argument that posting a sex tape of someone against their wishes is egregious. I don't let people take pictures of me, let alone video, let alone that. I think that the case is more complicated than you do, clearly, but I can sympathize with it. But even if you think that in this specific instance that Gawker deserved to go, you should still worry about the bigger picture. I think you're being naive in thinking that this case is sui generis and does not have the potential for broader implications. I think that your antipathy to Gawker and desire to defend the outcome of this particular case leads you to stake out a position that simply isn't compatible with having a press that is financially viable without the patronage of an owner independently wealthy enough to withstand litigation and to fight it.

Well, in any event, I hope I explained myself well enough that you understand my position.

If the coverage is of personal affairs without any relationship to the public interest but only our most base, voyeuristic tendencies, I can't really say that that's a bad thing.

Certainly if a paper foregoes reporting on a crime because the person is rich then that could become a problem.
 

Mumei

Member
How are they not the free press? I don't get the distinction you're trying to make, because there isn't one. TMZ, Aftonbladet, The Guardian and Bild are also part of the free press as i've always used the word, as opposed to press that isn't free. Like North Korean publications to go to the other extreme end of the spectrum.

I am saying that one man is not "the free press." You are extrapolating the foolish behavior of one former editor at Gawker with the entire institution. If you had said "A.J. Daulerio did not show enough respect to the court when he answered a question about age limits in a flippant manner," I wouldn't have had a quibble with that. It's true, and he should have taken it more seriously. But you've no evidence that his attitude or behavior is reflective of the press generally. That's what I mean when I say that A.J. Daulerio is not the free press. He is (or was) certainly part of the press, but that does not mean that his sins, whatever they may be, are the sins of the press writ large.

And it doesn't really give me pause, because i think that federal judge was wrong to say it was protected speech, and because their behaviour in court made it obvious they thought they were above the law. A cold shower for the free press was very much needed.

... But if this is about adherence to the law, shouldn't you care about what the law is? This is why I think that this is not truly about the law; this is about your moral or ethical beliefs independent of the law. As you said:

I know they didn't break the law, technically. But i think what they did should have been considered a crime, just like that other dude who got sent to jail for hosting a girlfriend revenge porn site. I very much agree with the jury that wanted the defendants to be sentenced to community service.
It shouldn't become newsworthy just because your victim is famous.

You know that they did not break the law, but you believe that it should be against the law.

And I think that the argument that it was "newsworthy" in this case was the fact that Hogan was a public figure, had discussed the sexual act multiple times in public, knew he was being filmed, and therefore there was a legal argument that this made it "newsworthy." If he had not given multiple interviews, or had been unaware that he was being filmed, or wasn't a public figure then there wouldn't be an argument that it was newsworthy. I don't think it is tasteful, but it is also not analogous to revenge porn done to a private individual.

If the coverage is of personal affairs without any relationship to the public interest but only our most base, voyeuristic tendencies, I can't really say that that's a bad thing.

Certainly if a paper foregoes reporting on a crime because the person is rich then that could become a problem.

Well, I would agree with the argument that there is a distinction between "the public is interested" and "the public interest", and I would also agree that not having, say, celebrity sex tapes would not really be a bad thing.

So, that's not really my concern.

I was talking about this with another poster on GAF who shall go nameless and is also boring better-adjusted than I am and doesn't bother arguing with people about things nearly as often. Anyway, he made the point that programs like this algorithm takes something which might be tolerable now, because it is rare, but if they were done algorithmically, in a way that could be done repeatedly and in way that lets you game it to win much more often, it could be extremely destructive.

You also have to remember, of course, that this isn't just a problem for journalism; Legalist is broadly applicable for litigation. It trawls tens of millions of past court cases, not just cases of journalists being sued.
 

twinturbo2

butthurt Heat fan
If that happens it happens. Why should I feel sorry for people feeling consequences for their actions? If one incredibly egregious and abhorrent act makes it no longer financially viable for them to stay in business (which is what is happening here, the way you and other Gawker defenders make it seem like the judge ordered them to shut down) then that's on them. Why should I give a fuck? If a restaurant knowingly refuses service to minorities, and that causes them so much financial hardship that they have to fire all their employees (many of them innocent) and shut down business, will you feel sorry for them? Will you say it's setting a bad precedent?
New York Magazine got a lawsuit threat from you-know-who regarding their reporting on Roger Ailes.

http://cnn.it/2c7Kpfv

But sure, keep insisting that Gawker deserved it and this has no precedent.
 
They're going after someone who reported negative things about the former head of Fox News demanding a retraction. This doesn't worry you... how? 🤔

Has the lawsuit gone through? Has it been successful? Until it has, you have no case for "precedence". Frivolous lawsuits existed before and after Gawker. People suing media outlets happened before and after Gawker. You are reaching badly.
 

Tripon

Member
Has the lawsuit gone through? Has it been successful? Until it has, you have no case for "precedence". Frivolous lawsuits existed before and after Gawker. People suing media outlets happened before and after Gawker. You are reaching badly.
There isn't even a lawsuit. It's just Alies hiring the same lawyer Hulk used and said lawyer is saying don't destroy any documents. We might be using it later.

New York Magazine has nothing to worry about. Even if Alies sued, what can he say? He's not an absolute scumbag? Proving libel is a much harder claim than violating somebody privacy.
 

numble

Member
New York Magazine got a lawsuit threat from you-know-who regarding their reporting on Roger Ailes.

http://cnn.it/2c7Kpfv

But sure, keep insisting that Gawker deserved it and this has no precedent.

Roger Ailes threatened to sue a journalist reporting on him in 2012. Precedent.

http://mediamatters.org/blog/2014/01/12/the-paranoia-and-vindictiveness-of-roger-ailes/197550
[Ailes] discouraged sources close to him from speaking with me and went to elaborate lengths to obstruct my reporting. Through surrogates, Ailes attempted to create a counter-narrative about my journalism. "From what I understand, you're preparing a personal dossier on Roger," his attorney, Peter Johnson Jr., told me in December 2011. When I asked to interview Johnson two months later, he threatened legal action. "What the hell am I going to talk to you about I may wind up suing you, for Christ's sake."
 

twinturbo2

butthurt Heat fan
Has the lawsuit gone through? Has it been successful? Until it has, you have no case for "precedence". Frivolous lawsuits existed before and after Gawker. People suing media outlets happened before and after Gawker. You are reaching badly.
Saying that I'm reaching badly because I'm paying attention is cute. The precedent here is rich people suing or threatening to sue to quash any coverage that's remotely negative about them. You don't think rich people are looking at what Theil did to Gawker and getting ideas? We saw it with Trump's wife, she's suing a podunk blogger in Maryland along with the Daily Mail so the case can't go to federal court. We saw it with Mother Jones. We're about to see it with New York Magazine, the guy who reported on Ailes has been on that paranoid guy's hit list for a while.

You need to recalibrate your opinions dude.
 

Hasney

Member
Saying that I'm reaching badly because I'm paying attention is cute. The precedent here is rich people suing or threatening to sue to quash any coverage that's remotely negative about them. You don't think rich people are looking at what Theil did to Gawker and getting ideas? We saw it with Trump's wife, she's suing a podunk blogger in Maryland along with the Daily Mail so the case can't go to federal court. We saw it with Mother Jones. We're about to see it with New York Magazine, the guy who reported on Ailes has been on that paranoid guy's hit list for a while.

You need to recalibrate your opinions dude.

He threatened it before this case though. There is no precedent.

Roger Ailes threatened to sue a journalist reporting on him in 2012. Precedent.

http://mediamatters.org/blog/2014/01/12/the-paranoia-and-vindictiveness-of-roger-ailes/197550
 

Joni

Member
Saying that I'm reaching badly because I'm paying attention is cute. The precedent here is rich people suing or threatening to sue to quash any coverage that's remotely negative about them. You don't think rich people are looking at what Theil did to Gawker and getting ideas? We saw it with Trump's wife, she's suing a podunk blogger in Maryland along with the Daily Mail so the case can't go to federal court. We saw it with Mother Jones. We're about to see it with New York Magazine, the guy who reported on Ailes has been on that paranoid guy's hit list for a while.

Guess what, it is perfectly legal to sue for libel.
 

numble

Member
Saying that I'm reaching badly because I'm paying attention is cute. The precedent here is rich people suing or threatening to sue to quash any coverage that's remotely negative about them. You don't think rich people are looking at what Theil did to Gawker and getting ideas? We saw it with Trump's wife, she's suing a podunk blogger in Maryland along with the Daily Mail so the case can't go to federal court. We saw it with Mother Jones. We're about to see it with New York Magazine, the guy who reported on Ailes has been on that paranoid guy's hit list for a while.

You need to recalibrate your opinions dude.

Trump has been suing and threatening to sue the media since the 1990s:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal_affairs_of_Donald_Trump

Briefly before Trump's Taj Mahal opened in April 1990, the analyst had said that the project would fail by the end of that year. Trump threatened to sue the analyst's firm unless the analyst recanted or was fired.

1992, Trump sued ex-wife Ivana Trump for not honoring a gag clause in their divorce agreement by disclosing facts about him in her best-selling book, and Trump won a gag order.

In 2009, Donald Trump sued a law firm he had used, Morrison Cohen, for $5 million for mentioning his name and providing links to related news articles on its website.

in 2011, an appellate court upheld a New Jersey Superior Court judge's decision dismissing Trump's $5 billion defamation lawsuit against author Timothy L. O'Brien

Trump sued comedian Bill Maher for $5 million in 2013.

In 2014, the former Miss Pennsylvania Sheena Monnin ultimately settled a $5 million arbitration judgment against her, having been sued by Trump after alleging that the Miss USA 2012 pageant results were rigged.

Precedent.
 
Melania Trump also sued a no-name blogger to prevent this from going to federal court, after the blogger and Daily Mail issued retractions. She wants to bleed them both dry through legal fees.

But do go on over how this doesn't set precedent.

All the types of things that happened before the Gawker lawsuit ever came about. Do you think the concept of bleeding someone dry through the legal system is new?
 

Hasney

Member
Melania Trump also sued a no-name blogger to prevent this from going to federal court, after the blogger and Daily Mail issued retractions. She wants to bleed them both dry through legal fees.

But do go on over how this doesn't set precedent.

I don't understand. Individuals and companies have used the court systems for bleeding people dry well before this whole thing. I don't see how this wouldn't have happened regardless.

I mean, off the top of my head, Sony did the same thing to Bleem PS1 emulation despite never winning a single judgement against them.
 
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