KILLZONE 2 - input lag now? if you want a reskinned COD4, go play WaW
- Thread starter Wollan
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hukasmokincaterpillar
Member
VOOK said:
There's differing opinions, and there's skull fucking a dead horse through its rotted eye socket.
Lion Heart
Banned
Im up to about 10 playthroughs in the demo now, this is gonna be an amazing game no question. It rivals MGS in the details that are put in the game. Looking at the E3 07 video, I wish they kept those crazy enemy animations when pumped with lead although its probably not as realistic.
The controls were hard at first but they feel silky smooth now.
The controls were hard at first but they feel silky smooth now.
DKo5 said:Is the laggy controls argument still going on? Don't have the time to keep up with this stupidly fast thread
Took some 60fps video using this style of testing - http://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/3725/measuring_responsiveness_in_video_.php?print=1
Here's my results after at least 3 tests per action (the range is due to my crappy camera, can be hard to tell the exact point my finger is pressing down):
Shooting : 10-13/60ths
Jumping : 15-18/60ths
Aim down sights (going in or out): 12-16/60ths
Right stick movement: 10-13/60ths
Right stick STOP movement (cause of overshooting your aim): 10-14/60ths
Obviously this isn't as scientific as some would like - but its as good as I can get here at home w/ my camera. Other games I've tested back up the findings in the article (PS3 XMB, GH3 on 360, and my own testing of COD4 shows it to be 3/60ths)
This puts it in leagues with some of the "laggiest" games out there, according to that article I posted above. Is this all by design? Not sure. All I know is that its really hampering my ability to enjoy what looks like an absolutely stunning FPS.
I can convert the footage and host somewhere if you guys would like to go frame by frame like I have.
COD4 for 360 or PS3. Just wondering because if your systems are hooked up any differently than each other it could have an effect on the lag.
Rapping Granny
Banned
The thread has gone into complete shit because of the 'flick' talk. STFU already.
Unknown One
Member
People complained that the Helghast took too many shots.Lion Heart said:
That old E3 demo that Helghast took tons.
Might look beautiful but I bet people will be complaining.
I heard the hardest mode they take more shots.
Go upclose to them and spray to see if it has the same results.
alba said:it's all downhill from here on, some people just aren't happy with anything
Some people just don't want to be happy. I understand people are allowed to voice their complaints about the game if they want, but most in here are going way overboard. The controls do take a bit of getting used to but one playthrough should be more than enough to adjust to it. But instead you get people crying as if they've never played a game before.
Dirtbag said:
The vast majority of players don't seem to have a problem with the lag in the controls once they've adjusted from other shooters.
To say that the lag in the controls goes so far as to break the game for you or cause you to be "letdown" by it seems to be reaching, or at least places you in the overwhelming minority. But hey, Obama's president, minority is in! Fight on!
KillJade said:
Can you overcome the controls? Yes. Should we have to deal with a minimum of 200ms of lag on every input (look at my previous posts)? I don't personally think so.
I love what they're trying to do with the laborious animations and character motions, but when I press fire there should be red hot lead pouring from my rifle!
UntoldDreams
Member
cakefoo said:
Your definition of joystick lag would apply to every joystick on earth.
As someone who has written joystick device drivers in linux down to 8-10 millisecond frames you can believe me.
Enough already this thread is pretty bad and I don't think you want to keep it going down this path.
Unknown One
Member
Cruzader said:
I counter your Magnum talk.
Takes 3-4 shots to kill a Helghast and shoots very slow.
I played 3 runs on the demo with only Magnum and boy it shoots slow.
Infinite ammo is a must for the slow magnum.
Pristine_Condition
Member
Fastest draw ever:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7gbPPirCu9s
Of course this guy isn't shouldering an assault rifle, or in combat loadout.
Still, cool as hell to watch.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7gbPPirCu9s
Of course this guy isn't shouldering an assault rifle, or in combat loadout.
Still, cool as hell to watch.
UntoldDreams
Member
DKo5 said:
If there truly was 200 ms of lag the game would respond at the equivalent of 5 frames per second.
The delay is only used when the game thinks that you're about to make a big movement. This is why it only happens when you flick the stick. It makes tons of sense because you dont turn on a dime. If you move the stick slower (w/o flicking) or make fine adjustments then it's instant.
I dont get why anybody would be trying to flick. I think its because ppl are used to making huge movements on a dime and letting the auto-aim help adjust their shot.
I bet they have an algorithm that measures how fast the analog stick is moving. They would have a threshold for the speed/acceleration and if the acceleration of the stick crosses that threshold then they apply a delay. If not, then no delay.
Example:
If the analog stick accelerates this fast *threshold* (or moves over this amount of distance within this amount of time),
Then apply x amount of milliseconds of delay
If the analog stick's acceleration doesnt cross this threshold
Then apply 0 amount of milliseconds of delay
Whats so hard to understand about that? It's all to give a sense of weight and is deliberate.
I dont get why anybody would be trying to flick. I think its because ppl are used to making huge movements on a dime and letting the auto-aim help adjust their shot.
I bet they have an algorithm that measures how fast the analog stick is moving. They would have a threshold for the speed/acceleration and if the acceleration of the stick crosses that threshold then they apply a delay. If not, then no delay.
Example:
If the analog stick accelerates this fast *threshold* (or moves over this amount of distance within this amount of time),
Then apply x amount of milliseconds of delay
If the analog stick's acceleration doesnt cross this threshold
Then apply 0 amount of milliseconds of delay
Whats so hard to understand about that? It's all to give a sense of weight and is deliberate.
Unknown One
Member
Pristine_Condition said:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Og9ccsb1v6o&feature=related
This is cool also.
Hellsing321
Member
You should this on the thread where the devs are asking for feedback and see what they say.DKo5 said:Is the laggy controls argument still going on? Don't have the time to keep up with this stupidly fast thread
Took some 60fps video using this style of testing - http://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/3725/measuring_responsiveness_in_video_.php?print=1
Here's my results after at least 3 tests per action (the range is due to my crappy camera, can be hard to tell the exact point my finger is pressing down):
Shooting : 10-13/60ths
Jumping : 15-18/60ths
Aim down sights (going in or out): 12-16/60ths
Right stick movement: 10-13/60ths
Right stick STOP movement (cause of overshooting your aim): 10-14/60ths
Obviously this isn't as scientific as some would like - but its as good as I can get here at home w/ my camera. Other games I've tested back up the findings in the article (PS3 XMB, GH3 on 360, and my own testing of COD4 shows it to be 3/60ths)
This puts it in leagues with some of the "laggiest" games out there, according to that article I posted above. Is this all by design? Not sure. All I know is that its really hampering my ability to enjoy what looks like an absolutely stunning FPS.
I can convert the footage and host somewhere if you guys would like to go frame by frame like I have.
No, just think about this. Only after I've held it longer than 30-50ms can it decide, "This isn't a brief input. I shouldn't ignore this."UntoldDreams said:
As I've said a billion times before, I like that it ignores input briefly because it makes a flick that is long enough to register seem to cut of the first 50ms so that if I flick for 60ms it takes off 50ms and makes it a 10ms input, which just wouldn't normally be physically possible to have that much quickness and precision.
UntoldDreams said:
The game takes 10-18 (depending on the action) frames to respond to any input. I posted a torrent link earlier if you'd like to load up Quicktime and go frame by frame with me.
http://www.dko5.com/KZ2_Response_Test.mov.torrent
Unknown One
Member
Yeah it's pretty overblown.Mutagenic said:
These guys must play to many Call of duty games.
I won't say Halo because it controls very well and not to much of that sticky aim like the cod series and resistance 2.
Pristine_Condition
Member
Ballistictiger said:
I'll see that, and raise you...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z5uHt4AwYb4
This is probably the most insane thing I've ever seen in shooting. The control is amazing. the way he consistently picks off individual clays in close proximity flight without breaking any neighbors is freaky.
Unknown One
Member
I love tom napp I was saving him for a counter haha.Pristine_Condition said:
You beat me to it :lol
awesome
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jpv0yZC3iMM
DKo5 said:
Well I don't have any issues with this "lag" people are talking about. I'm just playing and enjoying the demo immensely. I don't understand how people can nitpick something to the point where they cant enjoy the game. Of course you will always have those who just don't want to enjoy the game. Flick Flickety!
Pristine_Condition
Member
Ballistictiger said:
:lol :lol :lol
Hellsing321
Member
And here come the Gifs!
Ya'll ready for this?
Da da dandandan da da dandandan
Ya'll ready for this?
Da da dandandan da da dandandan
Rapping Granny
Banned
Loudninja said:
I tried to run n gun the last HGH alive, I thought I had him, but when he was about to fall to the ground, a burt of fire came out of his gun, it hit a red barrel, all I hear is the hiss sound, and BOOM!
Andronicus
Banned
you needed the pic for maximum lol efficiencyTheFatOne said:
Ballistictiger said:
our complaints seem magnified because of how much explaining was required in the first place. the amount of posts trying to discredit, or confuse our understandings of what was happening during OUR play-throughs dragged it out much longer then it should have. i'm pretty certain this issue is going to be even bigger come launch, and isn't going away anytime soon.
You know, one of you guys said someting about how it was better for GG to patch the game for the mainstream gamers so at the end of the day, word of mouth would help KZ2 on the long run since it owuld be "easier" to play or something.Mutagenic said:
Well (think it was dirtbag..lol) whoever said that, due to you making a bigger deal out of something that isnt really an issue, fear is being spread about the controls to the mainstream thus you yourself being the a problem since its affecting the game's "image". (you and all others btw)
As you can tell by ppls like Mutagenic, they are reading this same crap all over the web and since not all of them know or want to DL the UK version, they'll start to worry and might cancel their pre-orders. Im just saying that the more ppls keep arguing about this nonsense, it might hurt the sales or something.
UntoldDreams
Member
cakefoo said:
Hmm... As a DEV who has made joystick device drivers I can categorically tell you that you are highlighting a known limitation of the technology of POLLING.
What you are describing is the input window of a polling mechanism. You are calling this "lag" but by definition its not LATE its simply the size of the window of input. Please stop calling it lag or simply say it feels unresponsive.
You can claim that the window is too large and thereby unresponsive but you can't say that the input is being received late. That simply is not true.
The end result to the laymen is that it feels "sluggish" if the window is too large.
Unknown One
Member
Well I was watching Garza running away from a Helghast.
The Helghast caught up and rifle butt Garza, then spray him full of lead.
Garza responded on the ground "somebody help me, anybody!"
The Helghast did help him I thought.
The Helghast caught up and rifle butt Garza, then spray him full of lead.
Garza responded on the ground "somebody help me, anybody!"
The Helghast did help him I thought.
Liferebooted
Banned
For those who want to order from amazon but already got suckered into gamestop.com I was able to cancel my preorder on the site just fine. Shows the amount due as $0.00 and cancelled status. Now go save almost $15 at amazon.
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