KILLZONE 2 - input lag now? if you want a reskinned COD4, go play WaW
- Thread starter Wollan
- Start date
- Status
Dirtbag said:
well, if they made any change, it'd have to be delivered via post-release patch as this game is in the can as you know from the promo copies
and that i've been playing through a retail copy
it sure takes some getting used to initially though.
Andronicus
Banned
lowrider007
Licorice-flavoured booze?
Ello said:
Was thinking that myself, that would be awesome, some of the stuff in this game definitely deserves to be seen in slow-mo.
RubxQub said:
I did read what he said, I just don't agree with it. Using that same argument, one could make the case that Burnout and Gran Turismo should not both exist, which is of course preposterous. Different experiences are not a bad thing. They may not be your preference, but that doesn't mean they are wrong...or that you should consistently complain about them.
iamcool388
Member
Dirtbag said:
Good to know you truly embody your username. Later.
Keylime
ÏÎ¯Î»Ï á¼Î¾ÎµÏÎγλοÏÏον καί ÏεÏδολÏγον οá½Îº εἰÏÏν
I guess I'd just like someone to explain this video to me (about 45 seconds in).
The video slows things down to 25% of their normal speed and it shows the guy input the command, and after a beat the character on the screen begins the motion.
What is the point of this delay? Why does the game take ZERO action until a short time after you input the command?
I'd have no problem with this game if the guy start accelerating immediately, but all he does is stand motionless for a beat an then react.
...how is that OK? Not reacting immediately to your input is a glitch, not a feature.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RVvVESRnQJI#t0m48s
The video slows things down to 25% of their normal speed and it shows the guy input the command, and after a beat the character on the screen begins the motion.
What is the point of this delay? Why does the game take ZERO action until a short time after you input the command?
I'd have no problem with this game if the guy start accelerating immediately, but all he does is stand motionless for a beat an then react.
...how is that OK? Not reacting immediately to your input is a glitch, not a feature.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RVvVESRnQJI#t0m48s
makingmusic476
Member
You bastard.arne said:
I need to get a job at SCEWWS...
RubxQub said:
Are you working hard to become an urban dictionary definition of 'broken record'?
The Dev's think that the controls 'Work as Designed'. Personally, I didn't have problems with them on my PS3 during the Beta, or on a Test Station back in Amsterdam.
Other people have either had or haven't had problems.
Right now you don't need to be convincing US that YOU have a legitimate issue, you need to convince someone who can do something about it. And this isn't the place for it.
Dirtbag said:
Wow....Please just go back to playing your other FPS's then. I don't know why you keep harping on and playing something you are not enjoying. I thought Left 4 Dead was cack I didn't post a million times over in the official thread repeating the same complaints over and over....I moved on to games I actually enjoy playing
Lord Error
Insane For Sony
I can see lag on that TV even when he's in XMB -_-RubxQub said:
Someone has measured actual lag earlier in the thread, and it's in line or just a tiny bit more than most 30FPS games, depending on the action (and of course, it's hard to even be fully scientific with the method used)
Private Hoffman
Banned
RubxQub said:
It's called momentum. It does react immediately, but it accelerates from zero movement. Initial input won't register movements as large, but once you've held it down it will move faster.
The guy even explains it in the youtube description
TrustedReviews: Killzone 2 Review 9/10
http://www.trustedreviews.com/gaming/review/2009/02/08/Killzone-2/p1
Keylime
ÏÎ¯Î»Ï á¼Î¾ÎµÏÎγλοÏÏον καί ÏεÏδολÏγον οá½Îº εἰÏÏν
I saw the guys comments, but there is no movement on the screen when he initially hits the stick.Private Hoffman said:
1. Hits stick
*beat*
2. Start acceleration
3. Let's go of stick
4. Immediately starts deceleration
If that beat weren't there I wouldn't be "bitching", but I swear none of you are willing to admit that beat is even present.
iamcool388
Member
Iain Howe said:
Dont say that. Broken records also have non-functioning ears and eyes. They didnt care for logic before, what makes you think they will do it now? Apparently you need to get off your high horse and enjoy the thread views this is providing your e-peens. :lol
P.S. I wanted to know what directions you were given while writing the Killzone universe? I'm still not really sure in what capacity you worked at GG... were you a consultant, or were you there full time? Also, did you have free rein to write the story, or did the developers give you certain guidelines, or plot points to incorporate? I've been curious for a while, just havent had the courage and opportunity to ask until now.
cjtiger300
Member
Think of it like a athlete running the 100 meters. Does he burst out of his stance at top speed? No, there is a period of a few seconds where he must accelerate to top speed. The controls are amazing in a genre that has gotten way too stale lately. This is a breath of fresh air. Once it clicks you will question why you ever had a problem.
Also, when you go back to other FPS's, you will adjust back. It will not ruin your COD skills. You may not like it as much, but you will be just fine.
Also, when you go back to other FPS's, you will adjust back. It will not ruin your COD skills. You may not like it as much, but you will be just fine.
makingmusic476
Member
Um...he fucking worked on the game?RubxQub said:
Edit:
Granted, he wasn't a programmer, but he got in his fair share of testing, I'm sure.
RubxQub said:
Did you not go to computer engineering school? There are no "glitches", there are only "undocumented features".
:lol P.S. I did dabble into that a few years ago, but obviously very different from games programming (I did SQL, database design, etc. mainly).
And what HDTVs do you guys have anyway? Because I don't experience said "input lag". =x
makingmusic476 said:
Thrillzowned.
RubxQub said:
Whoah whoah hey there little baby boy. Not many people even give a fuck about you, so lay it easy.
Next, is this supposed "lag" of yours significantly higher than other games? Didn't Gamasutra do an article on this talking about the presence of lag in modern games because of wireless controllers and more?
Either way if you've not noticed, it's affecting only you. The rest of us have been loving the demo. Ergo, it's not a big problem.
iamcool388 said:I wanted to know what directions you were given while writing the Killzone universe? I'm still not really sure in what capacity you worked at GG... were you a consultant, or were you there full time? Also, did you have free rein to write the story, or did the developers give you certain guidelines, or plot points to incorporate? I've been curious for a while, just havent had the courage to ask until now.
Initially joined as a full employee. Later I left to take a career break and move to Canada, and continued with writing as a freelance contractor.
Obviously I'm still under NDA, but there WAS an existing brief for the Timeline that was unfinished and needed a fair amount more work. Obviously some details were in place when Visari's speech for the first intro was written.
What I did was take the timeline and draw it back into far history and up to the games 'present day'. All the fuzziness had to be removed and the contradictions resolved into hard dates, places and names.
The conditions of work were really conducive to creativity. I had free rein to write the story as I wanted - but I also had a lot of oversight by other members of the creative team. Everyone had to be happy before things were written off, and people provided me with a number of ideas to resolve tricky situations.
The Game storyline had been written before I looked at writing the universe backstory, so I didn't have any real input into that, but I was there in time to contribute to the script for the intro, the ingame dialog and other bits and pieces on a freelance basis after I moved.
Jealous and sort of feel like you are going crazy at the same time.Awntawn said:
It feels very alien to me, and I'm amazed at how us vs. them (those that get it), this issue is already become. This game launch has had so many twists and turns, that I'm half expecting there to be some weird control-delay glitch that only shows up for half of the demo users causing this whole fiasco.
polyh3dron
Banned
fucking this.KTallguy said:
RubxQub said:
Yeah, sorry - there probably are about 80 people in the world who know the game better than me, because I didn't get as much playtime on it in the last year of development as a lot of the team, but safe to say that whilst I can't point to a video, I have 13 years in the Games industry, including almost a decade as a Developer and Game Designer.
4 Years spent working on this particular Franchise in various roles.
Lord Error
Insane For Sony
Jeez, calm down, and read my post above. That TV has some pretty nasty lag on it's own.RubxQub said:
Tieno
Member
Well, if you don't want it to click it won't. I innitially was very weirded out by the controls/button mapping, but tried with alt 2, liked it then when playing that saw the shortcomings of that so went back to standard. After my 4th or 5th playthrough it really clicked with me and now I'm really loving the demo, from sound, to AI to graphics to guns and everything else and pre-ordered it. Just like with mirror's edge I'm glad they released an early demo so I can practice and train myself for when the full game comes and just enjoy it from the start instead of fumble for a couple of levels.Dirtbag said:
If you're not open to it after 15-20 times it might not be your thing.
makingmusic476
Member
Why'd you edit? Is it because you realized that shot was from like E3 or something (no offense), or was it some other reason?Loudninja said:
I'd really like to know, tbh. :lol
templeusox
Banned
Oh, snap.Iain Howe said:
Keylime
ÏÎ¯Î»Ï á¼Î¾ÎµÏÎγλοÏÏον καί ÏεÏδολÏγον οá½Îº εἰÏÏν
Sadly I don't think this is the case.Dirtbag said:
I played the demo over at a friend's house and he said that the controls felt "weightier" and that the shooting felt very good, meanwhile I played the same demo and immediately felt the control delay thick and heavily.
My friend who is very capable at FPS on the 360 was unable to shoot a single person in the face. He was unable to shoot people hardly at all.
He had the exact same gameplay experience as I did (unreliable controls causing inability to aim well), and yet he was saying that the game felt great, meanwhile I'm pulling my hair out.
MvmntInGrn
Member
The last 20 pages or so is like reading the same thing over and over again.
END THIS MADNESS
Basically your friend it taking the game for what it is even if he isn't as good at it. Judging the controls by how they FEEL not what you are able to do easily. He is willing to LEARN.
You, on the other hand, are stuck analyzing how it contrasts to other FPS games instead of taking them for what they are and LEARNING how to use them.
END THIS MADNESS
Which means go away.
RubxQub said:
Basically your friend it taking the game for what it is even if he isn't as good at it. Judging the controls by how they FEEL not what you are able to do easily. He is willing to LEARN.
You, on the other hand, are stuck analyzing how it contrasts to other FPS games instead of taking them for what they are and LEARNING how to use them.
I can understand people complaining about the controls. Coming from other FPS's they feel strange and it's up to you if you can (or want) get used to them.
It took me 3 plays to get used to them and them they clicked and was shooting fuckers one side and the other like a madman. But coming back to other fps's after playing it it took me other 3 plays to get used to them again.
I guess it's just a personal thing and how much do you play other fps's. For me, as I don't play a lot of them, it's pretty easy, but I can understand that a hardcore gears/cod/halo/resistance/etc.. player could have a LOT of problems getting use to them.
It took me 3 plays to get used to them and them they clicked and was shooting fuckers one side and the other like a madman. But coming back to other fps's after playing it it took me other 3 plays to get used to them again.
I guess it's just a personal thing and how much do you play other fps's. For me, as I don't play a lot of them, it's pretty easy, but I can understand that a hardcore gears/cod/halo/resistance/etc.. player could have a LOT of problems getting use to them.
Private Hoffman
Banned
RubxQub said:
I can take off Higs' heads left and right.
If he's having trouble shooting people with precision, he's not using the iron sights / scope.
The game is not designed for you to feel like you can head shot while shooting from the hip. That's not very realistic. If you want precision, you bring up the scopes / iron sights.
After about 8 playthrough I really dig how the game controls now, although it certainly seems to require time and individual ajustments based on the player (going off all the various impressions in this thread). I hope people continue to give the game a cahnce after the demo, and don't give up after 1 or 3 playthroughs. Granted that's sort of a design issue, when you think about it, but the game is quite good once you adapt to it.
makingmusic476
Member
Yeah, I was like "That screen is so old..."Loudninja said::lol Yeah i know it was old, damn you are quick
*refresh*
"Wtf it's gone!"
And I couldn't help but ask. :lol
iamcool388
Member
RubxQub said:
My last post on this... I promise. :lol
Guerilla has always said that they wanted the controls to feel weighted and realistic, and apparently it seems that a short delay between the movements and the input may have been their method of creating that effect. A glorified gimmick perhaps, just like the Wii-mote, but like the Wii-mote it is a gimmick that many people (as well as many reviewers seeing the critical reception the game has received) have bought into. So with all due respect to Mr. Marine who has experience firing rifles who posted earlier, even if it isn't anywhere near realistic, it successfully creates the feeling of weight that many people are able to relate to as the illusion of being realistic. And that's all that matters.Dirtbag said:
And then you have people like RubxQub coming in trying to tell us that we're not allowed to enjoy this illusion because it is not in fact intentional and is instead a negative byproduct of the developers' sheer incompetence and inability to execute something so basic as to have instantly responsive controls just like every other game in the market from the good to the ugly, something that he has no proof of whatsoever.
itxaka said:
Old dogs and new tricks.
I play halo I guess on average about an hour a day, and alternate COD in the mix from time to time. I've bought or at least played just about every FPS of merit for the past 5 years, and while I'm not on a pro-level.. I'm definitely a really great player.
I think I'm just stubborn and set in my ways. My game style isn't necessarily that of a twitch player, but I do have a flick method of small adjustments... so this game destroys my natural aiming methods.
RubxQub said:
They aren't "unreliable controls".
The game doesn't feel the same as COD4.
There is a difference in the way you move and shoot in this game.
I say you do the following:
1. Take a deep breath.
2. Switch controls to the default settings. Maybe bump the sensitivity up 2 notches, like I do.
3. Play the demo again, but take your time until you can line up headshots. Don't go gungho.
4. Fire in very small bursts. Tap tap tap tap.
5. If you still don't feel like you can perform well in the game, it's not for you.
An FPS that doesn't play like COD4/Halo/Resistance/whatever is NOT "Unreliable controls".
This game is a different animal.
If you aren't enjoying it enough to get used to it, maybe you should just stop.
Keylime
ÏÎ¯Î»Ï á¼Î¾ÎµÏÎγλοÏÏον καί ÏεÏδολÏγον οá½Îº εἰÏÏν
Look, I appreciate your work to make the game that you did, but that doesn't change the observation I've made and the video that's shown and the experience I've had on two seperate TVs now, as well as many others in this thread.Iain Howe said:
Could I learn these controls and become competent at the game? Yes.
Is it my strong opinion that when I hit a direction on the analog stick that there is some immediate reaction on the screen? Yes (how anyone could hold a different opinion seems crazy to me).
Is this what I (and others) have observed in this game? No.
Andronicus
Banned
makingmusic476 said:
after checking that prescription bottle like "wtf is this shit?" :lol
lupinko said:How are you liking Canada?
Canada is awesome. I love Alberta, the Rockies and my new home town of Calgary.
I have so far managed to avoid getting beat down for not realising that this is one of the few places in the world where Cowboys are not an ironic gay icon.
- Status