Support NeoGAF

[itsinmyveins]

Yeah, I definitely agree. I'm only saying is that you hear a lot of like, "This intense action is all scripted!" regarding other games (Resistance 2 was a recent example) and it's like...but you just busted a nut over that in this other game.

But then you have to take into consideration that the other game might have done a better job of hiding the scripted sequences. I don't like scripted stuff per se, but it can definitely add a lot of atmosphere to a game if done properly.

I've been playing some Resistance 2 and I'm just finding the game mediocre over all, but I haven't really reacted too much on the scripted stuff there yet.

 

[Y2Kev]

But then you have to take into consideration that the other game might have done a better job of hiding the scripted sequences. I don't like scripted stuff per se, but it can definitely add a lot of atmosphere to a game if done properly.

I've been playing some Resistance 2 and I'm just finding the game mediocre over all, but I haven't really reacted too much on the scripted stuff there yet.

I don't like Resistance 2-- I think it fails on like most levels. But I don't think we should see something like, "The enemies always pop up in the same areas!" as a criticism by a reviewer who didn't mention it in some other game. Hiding/failure to hide scripting is another area where people sort of argue without a real reference point that can lead to confusion.

All I'm really asking for is a broader sense of perspective maybe.

 

[Kabuki Waq]

I don't like Resistance 2-- I think it fails on like most levels. But I don't think we should see something like, "The enemies always pop up in the same areas!" as a criticism by a reviewer who didn't mention it in some other game. Hiding/failure to hide scripting is another area where people sort of argue without a real reference point that can lead to confusion.

All I'm really asking for is a broader sense of perspective maybe.

its not about where the enemy pops up it how the enemy reacts to what i do. Every game has some sort of scripting but to have it there constantly and make you feel like you are just going through to motions to trigger another scripted event is really dull.

 

[Kibbles]

Another compare of improvement, I can't wait for Dec2008 and final build to see how much further :O

Wow, seriously. Grayzone on the left, awesome-sauce on the right.

 

[itsinmyveins]

Again, agree to disagree. I discovered I needed to rush to the back corner of the TV station on my first playthrough and that was pretty much it for my honeymoon with the game.

Yeah, I had to that too, but it didn't spoil the game for me. I guess there were a few parts like that which annoyed me, but overall, I thought the single player campaign was great. The issues mainly show their ugly faces when you're playing on a harder difficulty, and that's when the single player campaign starts to suck.

I don't like Resistance 2-- I think it fails on like most levels. But I don't think we should see something like, "The enemies always pop up in the same areas!" as a criticism by a reviewer who didn't mention it in some other game. Hiding/failure to hide scripting is another area where people sort of argue without a real reference point that can lead to confusion.

All I'm really asking for is a broader sense of perspective maybe.

Well, yeah, I agree about that though. But still, a similar issue can be worse in another game depending on a lot of surrounding stuff.

 

[Karma]

Any good deals on Pre-orders for Killzone so far?

 

[Y2Kev]

Yeah, I had to that too, but it didn't spoil the game for me. I guess there were a few parts like that which annoyed me, but overall, I thought the single player campaign was great. The issues mainly show their ugly faces when you're playing on a harder difficulty, and that's when the single player campaign starts to suck.



Well, yeah, I agree about that though. But still, a similar issue can be worse in another game depending on a lot of surrounding stuff.

That's cool. My friend loved it. Well, parts of it. I mean he pulled his hair out in the War Room level. I couldn't do veteran on that level, I quit.

 

[TTP]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^
There is a female face with a red smile on the wall you can see through the tire.

Unsee that.

 

[DoomGyver]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v673/iceatcs/Killzone2Com2.jpg
^^^^^^^^^^^^^
There is a female face with a red smile on the wall you can see through the tire.

Unsee that.

Damnit TTP.

edit: at least it's not in the new build.

 

[Evolved1]

That's cool. My friend loved it. Well, parts of it. I mean he pulled his hair out in the War Room level. I couldn't do veteran on that level, I quit.

What was the level with all the televisions and shit? RPG guys up on the balconies... that's where I quit on verteran. Just pissed me off so much.

And for reference... I got through CoD2 on verteran and I think the majority of CoD3. But that room was so frustrating.

I think CoD4 was incredible the first playthrough on normal difficulty. MP is nice, but not my style... but I see why people enjoy it.

I don't think Killzone and CoD4 a very similar games... apart from being in first person. CoD is an arcadey twitch shooter. Killzone much less so.

 

[Kibbles]

So hyped for this and I don't even have a PS3... >.<

 

[Schrade]

Alright.

http://www.gamer.nl/doc/48979/Killzone-2-hands-on

Hands on is in Dutch (so is the video) but at least it might shows more gameplay

Google Translation link for that review: Click me for non moon language

 

[TTP]

I don't think Killzone and CoD4 a very similar games... apart from being in first person. CoD is an arcadey twitch shooter. Killzone much less so.

In a sense, COD : Killzone = Grid : Gran Turismo. It's the 1st shooter that has me talk about weapons in terms of "control" and "maneuverability" instead of just fire rate and recoil.

 

[Evolved1]

Wow, seriously. Grayzone on the left, awesome-sauce on the right.

I wonder if it was their intention all along to add more color to the game, or if that was a response to media coverage/criticism.

I like the new look... but that second screen from the top, from the 07 footage is one of my all time favorite screens. Just looks so smoggy and polluted... I love it. You can almost feel how bad it would be to breath that shit.

In a sense, COD : Killzone = Grid : Gran Turismo. It's the 1st shooter that has me talk about weapons in terms of "control" and "maneuverability" instead of just fire rate and recoil.

I really appreciate that GG made an effort to get away from "floating camera on a stick" player movement. It's not completely realistic, but it's much more reality-based than most shooters. And then there are the weapons... they are so good.

 

[ShinoguTakeruKoeru]

I wonder if it was their intention all along to add more color to the game, or it that was a response to media coverage/criticism.

June 27th 1UP Yours, something about Guerilla asked Shane if the game was too brown lol) and later levels apparently would have different color palette. So who knows?

 

[Clinton514]

For Killzone, many things are used for reference and inspiration. World War II is obviously the biggest influence.
Architecture for instance I know that they've looked at Italian fascist architecture. Radec Academy is a result of that. For the cluttered alleys seen in Salamun Market MP, and levels 2&3 in SP, Hong Kong alleys were referenced. If it doesn't exactly look like Italian fascist architecture or Hong Kong alleys, it's because those are just inspiration starting points, and not "Hey, let's copy this brick for brick".
I think if the lead visual artist could choose what to work on, he'd do a Judge Dredd game though.

Yes that 1UP feature when Shane visited the offices there was great. I liked the Hong Kong references. Also, I absolutely enjoyed the industrial sections of Killzone on the PS2.

 

[TTP]

I really appreciate that GG made an effort to get away from "floating camera on a stick" player movement. It's not completely realistic, but it's much more reality-based than most shooters. And then there are the weapons... they are so good.

Besides it's also perfect for controllers. I can't imagine it being as effective in terms of immersion with a mouse.

 

[Kuroyume]

The upgrade in character models from the old build is ridiculous. I love the color now too.

 

[Evolved1]

Besides it's also perfect for controllers. I can't imagine it being as effective in terms of immersion with a mouse.

I might take some heat for this, but I prefer console shooter over PC shooters for that very reason.

 

[itsinmyveins]

That's cool. My friend loved it. Well, parts of it. I mean he pulled his hair out in the War Room level. I couldn't do veteran on that level, I quit.

I played right up to the War Room-level on veteranm and that's when I quit. Like I said, the game's broken on that difficulty. Instead of smarter AI you just get enemies with some kind of Superman sight and who're faster than the Flash. And of course, respawns.

But just to take another example; what did you think of Bioshock?

 

[Y2Kev]

I played right up to the War Room-level on veteranm and that's when I quit. Like I said, the game's broken on that difficulty. Instead of smarter AI you just get enemies with some kind of Superman sight and who're faster than the Flash. And of course, respawns.

But just to take another example; what did you think of Bioshock?

Some things.

 

[Enojado]

Glad to see the thread back on topic with pics. Difference is pretty striking. Can't wait till Jan. 27th.

Tempy and the rest of GG deserve a shit ton of credit for what they have pulled off.

 

[Fersis]

Glad to see the thread back on topic with pics. Difference is pretty striking. Can't wait till Jan. 27th.

Tempy and the rest of GG deserve a shit ton of credit for what they have pulled off.

Yeah, if i lived on Europe i would send them some chocolates.

 

[itsinmyveins]

Some things.

I think I'm agreeing with a lot of stuff there, actually. The best thing about that game, like you say, is the polished setting. I really liked that part. But the action, fighting against splicers, is kinda dull and very repetitive after a while. It's not bad, but it's hardly great either. It doesn't take long before you've got a set of plasmids and start to reuse them throughout the game.

And I think the whole thing with a ton of audio tapes scattered over Rapture is also something surprisingly mediocre in terms of narrative, considering this is something the game gets a lot of cred for. Here, I thought, the thing that stands out is Rapture itself, with all its details telling the story on its own and they spoil it with audio tapes in every room.

The game is really good though, easily a solid 8/10, mainly thanks to the well realized setting.

 

[TTP]

Glad to see the thread back on topic with pics. Difference is pretty striking. Can't wait till Jan. 27th.

Tempy and the rest of GG deserve a shit ton of credit for what they have pulled off.

What happens on January 27th?

Spoiler

It's February, non January

 

[Fersis]

What happens on January 27th?

Spoiler

It's February, non January

Damn, he is gonna be so dissapointed on January 27th

 

[hulot]

I really appreciate that GG made an effort to get away from "floating camera on a stick" player movement. It's not completely realistic, but it's much more reality-based than most shooters. And then there are the weapons... they are so good.

Of any game I'd make this complaint, it be this one for no body or legs only because everything else is there and gives you that sense of weight.

 

[Evolved1]

That pic is fucking sweet. New to me.

Anyone have any good shots of the ISA scout? I've only seen a couple screens. :/

 

[Enojado]

What happens on January 27th?

Spoiler

It's February, non January

:lol :lol :lol

Ah, fuck. I meant to type Feb 27th. I blame it on my NyQuil hangover.

 

[ianp622]

Besides it's also perfect for controllers. I can't imagine it being as effective in terms of immersion with a mouse.

Besides, PC gamers expect to have their weapons be unrealistically accurate. For a PC shooter, the variable should be your skill with the mouse, and players don't like when their skill with a mouse is negated by recoil.

 

[KZObsessed]

That pic is fucking sweet. New to me.

:O:O:O:O

I want this as a poster. I want this as a poster.

Spoiler

I want this as a poster.

 

[Schrade]

That pic is fucking sweet. New to me.

Anyone have any good shots of the ISA scout? I've only seen a couple screens. :/

FUCK that is awesome! I want a pristine version of that one...

 

[Fersis]

I love the character design.
I hope GG releases some artwork with the character design.

 

[Clinton514]

Wow, has anyone read this yet.

1UP


What's with all the controversy surrounding this game?

 

[RoboPlato]

I love the character design.
I hope GG releases some artwork with the character design.

I would love to see a decently sized artbook included with the CE.

 

[Evolved1]

Of any game I'd make this complaint, it be this one for no body or legs only because everything else is there and gives you that sense of weight.

I'm on the fence about it. In any game I've seen that attempts a first person body (Breakdown and Mirror's Edge included) it's just not done very convincingly. You look down and the feet slide around and shit... it's kind of dumb.

Some devs do first person body only at certain times in the game, where they have total control over the animation, and I think it works pretty good. Gearbox does this with the Brothers in Arms games, where you see your body during a parachute drop, or when you get blown off your feet. GG even did something similar in the original Killzone with the context sensitive player vault.

I think what needs to happen, if some dev is going to do it proper, is that the game has to be built as a third person shooter. The animation and player movement has to be good enough to hold up in OTS, and then they could push the view into FPWV and the body would behave more realistically. Unfortunately, people accustomed to traditional FPS controls would lose their shit. I don't know if you could halfass it and not suffer major backlash. I think a dev would really half to address a number of common issues and be able find innovative ways to resolve them, and do it all at once. Not over the course of a few games.

I hope some dev makes an OTS shooter, focusing on animation/player movement and throws in the option to jump into FPWV. We've been teased with stuff like that, but never seen it really be the focus. I think if you do that right then people would respond well to it. I'm not a developer though... have no idea what would be involved in such an undertaking, or if it's even feasible. I hope someday.

 

[SolidSnakex]

Both the Helghast and ISA Scouts are some of the coolest designs i've seen in any game.

 

[Fersis]

Wow, has anyone read this yet.

1UP


What's with all the controversy surrounding this game?

Its better just to talk about the game and not about the reviewers.
I want more tech info about KZ2 !!!

 

[alba]

http://www.cynamite.de/imgserver/bdb/241700/241772/Detail.jpg

That pic is fucking sweet. New to me.

Anyone have any good shots of the ISA scout? I've only seen a couple screens. :/

oo time to make an avatar out of that

 

[Evolved1]

Both the Helghast and ISA Scouts are some of the coolest designs i've seen in any game.

I know... but there isn't much good media out there for the ISA model. I've been looking for hours.

Someone help me... so I can get back to studying for Organic and not fail college. :lol

oo time to make an avatar out of that

A smart crop and it'd look sweet. If you can avoid it, don't cut off the end of the barrel.

 

[WinFonda]

Wow, has anyone read this yet.

1UP


What's with all the controversy surrounding this game?

Funny he does nothing to excuse the ridiculousness of assigning a game a grade or score in a preview in the first place, which is what I think most people had issue with. If anyone can name any other game from any other website that has ever got that treatment, I'd love to see it.

 

[Schrade]

Wow, has anyone read this yet.

1UP


What's with all the controversy surrounding this game?

That guy is a fucking TOOL. He did not have the part in the parenthesis in his comments. He added that for this post. THAT was what people were upset about, him harping on the game without giving a reason. And that fucking reason was already acknowledged as fixed or will be fixed in a later build by Guerilla.

Scooter, nice try with the internet tough guy stuff but you fail...serious failure.

 

[KZObsessed]

Wow, has anyone read this yet.

1UP


What's with all the controversy surrounding this game?

What I don't understand is how you can come to a conclusion on a final score of a game based on a short preview. He says if it was released now it would be a B... so if it releases with only 6 levels and all the story elements missing? Has he even put time into the online? Is he including that in the score?

It's just a ridiculous comment. It seems he's already judged the game, already formed an opinion and graded it based on the first 6 levels. And he's wondering why he's getting shit for it?

Does he grade other shooters based on the first few levels?

 

[Clinton514]

Its better just to talk about the game and not about the reviewers.
I want more tech info about KZ2 !!!

Ok ok my bad.

More info from the storyline

(Start of Killzone 1)

Autarch Scolar Visari outlines his bold strategy for changing the face of governance in this system by returning to Vekta and seizing it again as a Helghast colony. Ignoring the many generations of UCN settlement under the ISA he inflames the passions of the Helghast for revenge. The Helghast High Command takes the bait and eagerly declares loyalty to Visari for the coming campaign - offering to make him Emperor if it succeeds.

Visari's plan is simple:

Spoiler

1. Utilize Deep cover agent ISA General Stuart Adams to neutralize the Orbital Defense Platforms.
2. Utilize Deep cover agent ISA General Dwight Stratson to gain access to Intelligence and lure the ISA troops out of the cities into the field.
3. Mount an invasion of Vekta whilst the Orbital Defense Platforms are down, under the command of General Joseph Lente.
4. Reactivate the Defense Platforms in time to defend Vekta against the inevitable support fleet sent by the UCA.
5. Declare the system to be under Helghast control and sue for peace with the UCN whilst the UCA is still reeling from the loss of its fleet.
6. Use the resources of Helghan and Vekta as well as technology captured from the wrecked UCA Navy fleet to build a Helghast fleet capable of defending the system from the UCA Navy.
7. Begin charging trade tariffs for passage through Helghast space to Earth again.
8. Blockade the Earth and strangle the UCN into submission.
9. Capture the UCN Navy Yards and Orbital defenses. Leave Earth's population to starve to death. Build an enormous fleet and establish Helghast hegemony over all colonies.

 

[test_account]

Wow, has anyone read this yet.

1UP


What's with all the controversy surrounding this game?

One comment to that blog entry is "People will always find something to complain about" which i understand is to "defend" the 1up guy (Thierry Nguyen), and i think that is cool, but after i saw the 1up video where they talked about Killzone 2, then i thought of the same thing, that people will always find something to complain about.

I dont think it anything wrong with pointing out bad things in a game, but it seems that 1up (atleast 1 or 2 of the persons in 1up, i dont remember their names, sorry) was so focused on the negative stuff about Killzone 2 instead of focusing on the good things. I think that is what some people reacted to. But maybe some of people in 1up didnt really like Killzone 2 that much from what they have played, so then what they said might be "valid points" (or what i shall say) in their opinion

 

[Evolved1]

 

[KZObsessed]

These are mine!

*cloaks and takes them*

 

[antiloop]

Wow, has anyone read this yet.

1UP


What's with all the controversy surrounding this game?

some scripted sequences necessary for mission progress didn't happen (due to the friendly A.I. failing to trigger said sequences) that could garner a B.

B for a broken game? Damn this game must be good.

 

[alba]

A smart crop and it'd look sweet. If you can avoid it, don't cut off the end of the barrel.

nooooooes! uber complex shit (as usual )

 

[Yoshichan]

Unsee that.

Gttttttttttttttfooooooo