KILLZONE 2 - input lag now? if you want a reskinned COD4, go play WaW

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Wii Graphics?? Now i've literally heard it all :lol

Anyways I love taking the far off enemies in the demo with errant propane tanks it's kinda fun to get them to rocket towards the enemies.
 
My Killzone 2 equation :

KZ2 = challenging aiming + extreme precision = simulation -> the more I play the demo, the better I am and the more fun I have.
 
cakefoo said:
I already read that post and understood it. All I said was that after testing buttons and them not registering either, it seems that you are right. So I don't see what you're objecting to here.
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There is nothing wrong with the Killzone 2 input system. There is no lag. There is no ignoring of meaningful gameplay button pushes either.

Its working as designed (and you are free to dislike their design choices) and I think it plays great personally.

Everything there is a developer decided algorithm which is balanced for the gameplay.
Stop saying there is an input problem because there isn't one. Its the game mechanic. If you don't like it so be it.

** That being said give this a rest please
 
Shane R. Monroe said:
Alright boys, I got a chance to play the INCREDIBLY SHORT 1.2GB demo tonight. Here are my thoughts.

I'm not sure I get what people are all excited about with the visuals. They look no better than COD4/5 and in some cases - worse. I swear, a couple of times, it looked like Wii graphics...
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Annnnd that's where I stopped.
 
I played it again just then, managed to get that weapon from the helghan dude on the top of the building in the warehouse. Reminded me of one of the better guns in CoD2 with the iron sights.

Been alternating between this demo and the RE5 demo all day today, had about 4 or 5 goes of each. I would say both are about on par, visually, with the edge going to KZ2 due to all the extra details. Both are amazing looking of course.

I wonder of all the people taking issue with KZ2 'lag control' - what fps games do you play mostly? I mean fair enough if youre a CoD/Halo/Counterstrike player, it feels slower. But not laggy slow. If youre used to Half Life 2 or Resistance 2 then it feels solid.

I liken KZ2 to Rainbow Six Vegas (only with decent animation and no stupid unskippable animation cycles that ruined Vegas for me). It has a weight to it, it feels convincing as a game can feel, without being unnecessarily punishing.

And upon reloading the 2 main areas a few times each - the AI does something different every time. That is CRITICAL to KZ2's success.
 
as a ps3 owner I am against KZ2 only because its going to start a chain of fanboys downing and picking apart every ps3 game released for the next 6 months. :/
 
Soooo looks like we're going to over take the halo 3 thread in terms of views pretty soon...2.7 mil vs 2.5 mil....sooo yea, just saying :lol
 
I can't wait to get back into the multiplayer

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I've been reading the backstory on killzone.com about the Helgan history.

Its actually quite interesting. I would give a shout out to Iaine for a job well done.
 
Edge's review is out and they gave it 7/10. Before you start moaning, the review is really specific about what they liked and disliked, it is fair and honest, but I suspect that will count for little.
 
UntoldDreams said:
There is nothing wrong with the Killzone 2 input system. There is no lag. There is no ignoring of meaningful gameplay button pushes either.

Its working as designed (and you are free to dislike their design choices) and I think it plays great personally.

Everything there is a developer decided algorithm which is balanced for the gameplay.
Stop saying there is an input problem because there isn't one. Its the game mechanic. If you don't like it so be it.
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So much wrong, I don't even want to reply.
 
windowlicker said:
Edge's review is out and they gave it 7/10. Before you start moaning, the review is really specific about what they liked and disliked, it is fair and honest, but I suspect that will count for little.
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and remember, an EDGE 5 is their average, as opposed to an IGN 7.
 
I was pretty disappointed with the sluggish controls in the demo. No, it's not because aiming is too slow, or because it's trying to be realistic or anything. Simply put, there's input lag. There's a delay between your button press and the action on screen (at least when it comes to aiming). You can even feel it in the menu...press the up and down buttons in the menu and you'll notice there's a noticeable delay before it actually responds to your command.

Anyways, other than that, seems solid. The graphics are truly astounding. One thing that surprises me so much is just how 3D the picture looks. I mean, you can almost see depth in the picture...it's eerie. I'm also very impressed that there's no visible slowdown at all. Kudos to you, GG.

edit: well I see this has been discussed to hell and back.

Anyways, as for my theory as to why this is. I'd say it's one of two things:

1) KZ2 might implements some sort of triple buffering feature, and the added 2 frames of lag are causing this noticeable delay.

2) The CPU is actually rendering the frames far ahead of the GPU, and so the disparity in between the two is causing the input lag.
 
cakefoo said:
So much wrong, I don't even want to reply.
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I am glad you don't wish to reply since I have been a dev for over 15 years and know how device drivers are programmed on a bit and byte level.

You on the other hand are simply attempting to derail the thread with made up facts.

As I stated many times, you are free to dislike their design choices but don't make stuff up unless you want to be called out. I have given you an "out". Please take it. Feel free to dislike their design choices.

BTW... I am not the only dev guy here though I might be the only one to take the time to respond to you.
 
TheExodu5 said:
I was pretty disappointed with the sluggish controls in the demo. No, it's not because aiming is too slow, or because it's trying to be realistic or anything. Simply put, there's input lag. There's a delay between your button press and the action on screen (at least when it comes to aiming). You can even feel it in the menu...press the up and down buttons in the menu and you'll notice there's a noticeable delay before it actually responds to your command.
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Yeah 2nd PS3 on my CRT monitor doing like that. But I have moved to LCD monitor or HDTV much faster respond.
 
This just got a 7 in edge, this wont end well.:lol
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Why?

Oh yeah, I forgot. Because numbers are powerful. They move people in unimaginable ways, incite revolutions, bring people closer together and can inversely tear them apart. Yes, numbers are powerful; especially 7's...
 
supermackem said:
This just got a 7 in edge, this wont end well.:lol
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I could care less. No FPS Demo felt so good to me.

I will say that this game seems to have more conflicting opinions than any other I can remember. I am hearing PC gamers who like the controls and other gamers who really hate them. Some people are beyond impressed with the visuals and others seem un-impressed.

Some people say the AI is not that good (this is one point that no matter how hard I try I cannot see how anyone can come to this conclusion) to others its top tier.

I'm sold, really cannot wait.
 
TheExodu5 said:
I was pretty disappointed with the sluggish controls in the demo. No, it's not because aiming is too slow, or because it's trying to be realistic or anything. Simply put, there's input lag. There's a delay between your button press and the action on screen (at least when it comes to aiming). You can even feel it in the menu...press the up and down buttons in the menu and you'll notice there's a noticeable delay before it actually responds to your command.

Anyways, other than that, seems solid. The graphics are truly astounding. One thing that surprises me so much is just how 3D the picture looks. I mean, you can almost see depth in the picture...it's eerie. I'm also very impressed that there's no visible slowdown at all. Kudos to you, GG.
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I can understand your dislike of the slower gameplay mechanic although I think its fine.

Its clear when you push the button and it animates a finger pushing and the gun reacting that they intended for it to be this way though.

However, if they changed the gameplay to be more like Resistance speeds would it really play like Killzone anymore?
 
dfyb said:
it's going up against Halo Wars and Street Fighter IV.
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A console RTS and a fighter 10(20?) years after fighters were mainstream, should be no sweat.

edit: oh snap, a 7 in Edge? Is Tom Chick Managing Editor over there or something?
 
UntoldDreams said:
I can understand your dislike of the slower gameplay mechanic although I think its fine.

Its clear when you push the button and it animates a finger pushing and the gun reacting that they intended for it to be this way though.

However, if they changed the gameplay to be more like Resistance speeds would it really play like Killzone anymore?
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Curious, how drastic a change would the game be (in your opinion) if they changed the input delay?

How much of the weight does it really convey?
 
windowlicker said:
Edge's review is out and they gave it 7/10. Before you start moaning, the review is really specific about what they liked and disliked, it is fair and honest, but I suspect that will count for little.
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So what did they say?

EDIT: Don't answer that, I actually found out the specific reason.

EDGE Scores:

Halo 3 - 10
Gears of War 2 - 9
Halo 2 - 9

Resistance 2 - 6
Resistance 1 - 7
KILLZONE 2 - 7
 
UntoldDreams said:
I can understand your dislike of the slower gameplay mechanic although I think its fine.

Its clear when you push the button and it animates a finger pushing and the gun reacting that they intended for it to be this way though.

However, if they changed the gameplay to be more like Resistance speeds would it really play like Killzone anymore?
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No the animation is not the case. Just try navigation the menus...there's clear input lag present. The lag is either purposefully built in to the base of the game (which is just very poor coding practice), or it's a by-product of their rendering technique. I think if the lag were intentional, it would not be present in the menus. Because of that, I don't think it'll ever change.
 
Shearie said:
Why?

Oh yeah, I forgot. Because numbers are powerful. They move people in unimaginable ways, incite revolutions, bring people closer together and can inversely tear them apart. Yes, numbers are powerful; especially 7's...
Click to expand...

Just going off the ign thread, people seem to put alot more in numbers than other people.
 
TheExodu5 said:
I was pretty disappointed with the sluggish controls in the demo. No, it's not because aiming is too slow, or because it's trying to be realistic or anything. Simply put, there's input lag. There's a delay between your button press and the action on screen (at least when it comes to aiming). You can even feel it in the menu...press the up and down buttons in the menu and you'll notice there's a noticeable delay before it actually responds to your command.
Click to expand...

Glad I'm not the only having this problem, there really does seem to be a noticeable delay ( or lag) in every action you make, be it moving around on the menu, moving your character around, or even jumping, sometimes I press jump for example and it lags by a good second or more, I know people will say 'oh well the jump has weight', but does also mean iron sighting should have weight ?, does that mean the menus should have weight ?, does that mean looking around evening when holding a knife/pistol there should be this so called 'realistic weight' ?

I'm sorry but it's a crock, the way people are going on about the added weight makes it a more skilful game is ridiculous, real skill comes from mastering pin point responsive controls with absolutely no aim assist, I don't see how adding a handy-cap into a game is seen as a good thing, I understand if it was realistic but when I hold a handgun or knife in real life I can turn fine thanks, we've even had people on here that have been in military service that have said it it us unrealistic, but I guess they are wrong too.
 
supermackem said:
This just got a 7 in edge, this wont end well.:lol
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Do reviews and impressions even matter post demo? Especially when we know exactly what they will say? Lemme guess:

Cons:
Awkward controls
Not so great story
Doesnt reinvent the wheel
blaaaaah blaaaah blaaaaah

I wanna talk more about the game and less about scores. I wanna talk about my "buy gqueb surround sound so he can tell which way his downed squadmates are when the hud is off because he likes the game even more that way" fund.

But seriously, Ive played this demo roughly 12 times and Im pretty much sold. And thats after apparently the lamest part of the game.

Now...

about that fund.
 
TheExodu5 said:
No the animation is not the case. Just try navigation the menus...there's clear input lag present. The lag is either purposefully built in to the base of the game (which is just very poor coding practice), or it's a by-product of their rendering technique. I think if the lag were intentional, it would not be present in the menus. Because of that, I don't think it'll ever change.
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Sorry but I disagree. By definition the menu is not taxing the CPU at all.

Notice that the rendering pipleline for their menu pauses and freezes everything in the background? Given this situation the CPU usage is significantly less in such a situation (no motion, no ai, no activity, no moving particles)...

It is clearly their design choice of menu.

You cannot call it poor coding practice since honestly it was by design.
I believe it was their "choice".
 
Take the Edge whining into the Edge thread. No one wants all that whining over reviews in here anymore. You've got a demo now, make a decision on your own.
 
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