KILLZONE 2 - input lag now? if you want a reskinned COD4, go play WaW

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polyh3dron said:
THERE IS NO 'N' IN THE WORD "TURRET"

That shit drives me NUTS when people say it online.

"I'll use the turrent"- NO!!!
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Thanks for clearing that up, I was wondering this the other day when I was typing it out in some other thread, and couldn't be bothered googling it. :lol
 
neorej said:
Played the demo a couple of times now. What I found most thrilling was that no single run was the same. Even small things like throwing a grenade in a situation where you haven't thrown one in a previous run completely changes the firefight.
This is definitively one that's going into my collection.
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For me it usually plays out very similarly, I guess I could try more gung ho tactics to see new stuff. The biggest change I see is if I jump the railing or go down the stairs in the warehouse. I think jumping the railing stops the rooftop helg from spawning at all, or else my partner always pops him first.
 
EazyB said:
Preview threads get a ton of views; news, previes, videos, reviews, etc. really attract the lurker. This thread has an unprecedented amount of hype and attention behind it which is definitely why it's gotten so many views but it's odd to compare gaint preview thread with final official threads. It'll be interesting to see if KZ2 can maintain this level of attention post-release. It'll really depend on how good the MP is and how well GG supports it with patches and DLC.
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Well, a lot of people are checking this thread for the laffs too. "I shot my team-mates and they shot me back, I've never seen this in any FPS game ever!" sort of remarks are being compiled as we speak. :P

This game should sell well, deserves to be considered a Killer App (in my eyes), and should get a lot of play (at least as much as CoD4 and Warhawk).

The one big thing that I think is a negative is the lack of 4 player split screen. It hasn't hurt Gears (has 2P Split), and CoD4 (has 4P split screen, but not 16P over LAN) too much, but one big part of Halo's success over the years is the fact that you can have a very social experience in 4P Split, and 16P over LAN with only 4 consoles. How much it will hurt the game has yet to be seen. CoD4 4P Split had it's issues (with how it handled upgrades and perks)...and it was still fun but not the CoD4 experience. So it may not hurt it at all.
 
FightyF said:
Well, a lot of people are checking this thread for the laffs too. "I shot my team-mates and they shot me back, I've never seen this in any FPS game ever!" sort of remarks are being compiled as we speak. :P
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What? Since when. I actually killed one of my team mates, on accident of course.
 
FightyF said:
"I shot my team-mates and they shot me back, I've never seen this in any FPS game ever!"
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Thats another of the stats it records.

I killed two of my team mates with a bad grenade throw, and another guy was like "You fucking idiot".

But there's also "number of teammates offended", and I got 0! Yay!
 
Rhazer Fusion said:
What? Since when. I actually killed one of my team mates, on accident of course.
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I killed one on purpose because he said ladies first when giving me a boost. I also wanted to see how many shots he took... fucker is a sponge.
 
polyh3dron said:
THERE IS NO 'N' IN THE WORD "TURRET"

That shit drives me NUTS when people say it online.

"I'll use the turrent"- NO!!!
Click to expand...
what the holy hell. i never knew people actually did that

WHAT THE FUCK PEOPLE
 
Accident said:
Just one thing about the weight of the guns, an AK47 is about eight pounds, the M4 is 6 pounds, a 30 rounds magazine is less than half a pound. If you try to move with something with a similar weight, like a guitar, you can notice the real life effect is quite the opposite that in KZ2, i can move with the "gun" at full speed almost immediately but there is a deceleration when you need to start rotating your body
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People on a realism kick should:

First go on crappy food and water for a couple of weeks.
Max of four hours sleep a day.
Get middleweight boxer to give you a good going over.
Strap on a good set of Kevlar Body armour.
Fit yourself with a patrol pack.
Equip yourself with an assault rifle with all the trimmings. Add a couple of hundred rounds in mags.
Now set off at a run, get up to a good sprint and see how quickly you can spin 360 degrees without falling on your ass.

I'm not saying it has any bearing on controller input - frankly I'd just like people who can't tell the difference between the illusion of reality and reality out doing something other than posting.
 
Grayman said:
I killed one on purpose because he said ladies first when giving me a boost. I also wanted to see how many shots he took... fucker is a sponge.
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He never said that to me. He always tells me, not to drop him this time and I hit him in the face two or three times because of it. It seems like it didn't have any effect on him even though blood flew all over the place.
 
Iain Howe said:
First go on crappy food and water for a couple of weeks.
Max of four hours sleep a day.
Get middleweight boxer to give you a good going over.
Strap on a good set of Kevlar Body armour.
Fit yourself with a patrol pack.
Equip yourself with an assault rifle with all the trimmings. Add a couple of hundred rounds in mags.
Click to expand...

You also need to hold infinite pistol ammo. Heck, infinity of ANYTHING is freaking heavy.
 
Bumping my mini controller guide for the newcomers.

nib95 said:
Ok, I've posted this before but I'll post again to clear something up that people are just not understanding about Killzone 2's controls. People are confusing lag for actual control movement and aiming design choices.




How Killzone 2's controls differ from other shooters.


1.) Analogue sticks are my arms, not just my eyes.

This is the first one, the one that causes aim to overstep, or continue even after you've let go of the stick, or not move properly until you've pushed the sticks with some force.

Other shooters have the analogue stick as purely a directional guide. They are basically your eyes, and you generally get steady consistent aim throughout stick movement. You also move the weapon as if it weighed nothing. You feel no real resistance at all, and the analogue is used for nothing more than to direct your cursor.

How does Killzone 2 differ? For a start, the analogue stick is not just a directional guide, but instead a strength gauge. Imagine the analogue sticks are your arms, not just your eyes, and that what you are holding weighs something. The harder, longer or more forcefully you push the sticks, the more sudden, strong and long the movement in the game will be. The more delicate you press them, the more gentle the movement will be. Because strength is variable, the aim is too. If you apply gentle force in any direction at the same force throughout, it will move at a consistent slow speed. Push the stick hard and long in a direction however, and not only will it move in the same way, but perhaps a touch more than when you let go of the stick. The reason for this is that inertia and momentum kicks in and this is something that you have to account for. The analogues are essentially a strength metre, and the effects of that are replicated with a unique aim acceleration set up.

My tips on how to account for this system is basically to see the analogue for what it is, not just that aiming guide but also the strength gauge. Be delicate with movement and aim, just as you would be in real life. Jamming the analogue stick from one direction to the other will get you no where. It's essentially like swinging a rifle with all your might from one direction to another. Instead, be subtle, use the full range of the analogue sticks. You don't always have to hit the edges of the analogue sticks, sometimes delicate taps are all that is needed.


2.) The computer doesn't help me.

Another key difference that KZ2 has when compared to nearly all other console shooters is a lack of auto-aim. This game nearly has none. When in hip fire, it has a tiny amount of it, but in iron sights it has none. Either way, the game has exponentially less than any other console fps, so naturally it's going to be much harder to be pin point accurate, since for once you are expected to hit things with your complete personal skill, the computer isn't going to help you.

The way to get by this is simple practise. And, some of the tips I mentioned above in part 1. Imagine the entire range of the analogue sticks as a mouse mat. In the past with console shooters, all you had to do is is push in the right direction at whatever speed or strength (only thing that really makes a difference is your timing) and the computer generally does the rest. In KZ2 all the space between the centre point of the analogue stick and the edge the analogue stick hits is similar to mouse mat space. Use it wisely, but be sure to use all of it. Swinging a mouse to the edge of the mouse mat every time will get you no where right? Think of Killzone 2 the same way.


3.) These guns react realistically

The guns are going to act with a degree of realism, meaning, they do have recoil and kick back. They will sway, lug, snap, kick and shoot up when you over fire them. To overcome this you basically follow one very easy rule. Burst fire. Extremely short bursts at that. Keep them concise and short, and practise some patience/restraint and before you know it you'll be the harbinger of death to any who stand in your way.

Hip fire is actually very effective in this game, provided you do stick to burst fire. Use it for short to medium range kills. The same burst fire rule applies to Iron Sights too, of which I recommend for medium-long range kills.


4.) It's not just weight

Objects that have weight, are also affected by inertia and momentum. People sometimes forget that. Everything that does carry weight in Killzone 2 is affected by these two factors. As I've touched on in the other parts, this applies mainly to your rifle, but it also applies to other things such as grenade throwing (consider it's weight, gravity etc) and it also applies to running. The longer you run, the more constrained you get with turning, or at least with how sharp you can turn. KZ2 uses a similar system to Gears of War when you use the CNN cam run. You run with such force and speed that you turn in slower arches, so you almost have to plan your turns slightly ahead of time. Momentum kicks in and propels you in a forward direction to a heavy degree, so account for that when turning whilst you are running.



I think that's it for now. But to end it I'll just link to a video I took of me playing through the demo (posted it before). It just gives an example of how some of the tips I gave above come in to play together. Including delicacy of control/aiming precision, running properly, throwing grenades, using burst fire and so on.

Please watch it in High Quality.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KUhuiJvBgaI


.
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I appreciate all the work you've put into your guides, Nib. For someone like me, who isn't exactly and FPS god, they're useful. :)
 
Oh btw, GAF, you still owe me a pitch on the merits of the sprint button.

I understand that movement speed vs firing accuracy can be an interesting tradeoff, but the way the HUD works in Killzone makes that almost completely moot. Or you could do like Resistance 2 (which features a completely redundant sprint just as well) and clip the movement speed as soon as you fire, and limit it even further as you go into iron sights.

What does the sprint button add to the game that the analog stick alone couldn't?
 
bcn-ron said:
Oh btw, GAF, you still owe me a pitch on the merits of the sprint button.

I understand that movement speed vs firing accuracy can be an interesting tradeoff, but the way the HUD works in Killzone makes that almost completely moot. Or you could do like Resistance 2 (which features a completely redundant sprint just as well) and clip the movement speed as soon as you fire, and limit it even further as you go into iron sights.

What does the sprint button add to the game that the analog stick alone couldn't?
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Like you said, you can't shoot while running. It's a trade off, speed versus being able to defend yourself. That's all there is to it, I'd imagine.
 
nib95 said:
Bumping my mini controller guide for the newcomers.
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It's a shame that there's no burst fire option for your weapons seeing as it's so important. I guess that'd make the game too easy.
I did notice that the weapons are better when you use the iron sights, but of course it's not so easy to move and shoot in that view.
Personally I had no problem with the feel of the weapons.
 
Lovely Salsa said:
Killzone 2 arrived! :D

Time to play and get killzowned

Best__£342spent_ever
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You should be ashamed of yourself. You could have gotten 2 girls at the same time with that amount of cash.

Lovely Salsa
Spent £342 on Killzone 2
(Today, 05:51 AM)
Reply | Quote
 
Rez>You said:
Like you said, you can't shoot while running. It's a trade off, speed versus being able to defend yourself. That's all there is to it, I'd imagine.
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It makes sense to slow the player down while shooting, but that doesn't require a sprint button. If I'm not shooting, I don't see much reason to not sprint. I try to click the stick in (which is awkward) every time I start moving, and I wonder, if it's so predictably recurring, why that can't be automated away by the game. Default to sprinting, slow me down when I fire. The stick is analog, so whenever I need to move slowly, I could still do that. The game, including movement speed vs accuracy, would be mostly the same, but the hassle of engaging sprint over and over would be removed.

It seems to me like an artifact of PC fps conventions, where movement control is still digital, and a shift key to switch between different speeds makes a lot of sense. On console controllers I just don't see the point.

Maybe it's because CoD 4 is so insanely popular and everyone except me is now such a highly trained left-stick-clicker that they don't even notice the extra motion anymore.

I complained about that in Resistance 2 as well, and after a lot of bickering back and forth, it came to light that it does affect the gameplay: 1)radar visibility implications; 2)a distinct lack of crosshair while sprinting makes lining up shots in transit very hard/allows slowpokes to be better prepared. As far as Killzone 2 goes, I see it adding nothing with the HUD turned off, and just the crosshair thing with it on.
 
McLovin said:
Until you try to use cover. Best to just stick to the defaul its actually pretty nice after a while. Online though.. their is no cover. I'll use alt 2 all I want online :D
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How so? I was using cover without issue. The game just felt so much more fluid, swapping the zoom and melee locations makes a huge difference for me.

I'm not arguing with you so much as trying to figure out if I am missing some element in the gameplay.
 
Lovely Salsa said:
Killzone 2 arrived! :D

Time to play and get killzowned

Best_£342_spent_ever
Click to expand...

I just hope you didn't throw all that money for the PRESS-KIt because of one SLIGHT reason - the utter incopatibility.

RETAIL game have different GAME-CODE, thus resulting that press-kit Trophies are not visible to anyone exept you, press-game SAVE is not compatible with retail game-save, nor press-game will not allow you to play on official-MP--servers, since it is also different code.

Noice you have to set-up your DNS settings manually in order to play that version online, but I'm not sure are those "press-servers" even up any more. Of course, you can play it online (maybe) just with other people who have that version of the game.

I have both codes, so I somehow know what I'm talking about.

However, if all above means nothing to you, than congratulation on your buy.

Donos said:
Press Kitt isnt the final build, is it?
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No, it is not, it is "almost final build" though. It has slight off-sound issues on last three chapters, as well as different "product" code.
 
bcn-ron said:
It makes sense to slow the player down while shooting, but that doesn't require a sprint button. If I'm not shooting, I don't see much reason to not sprint. I try to click the stick in (which is awkward) every time I start moving, and I wonder, if it's so predictably recurring, why that can't be automated away by the game. Default to sprinting, slow me down when I fire. The stick is analog, so whenever I need to move slowly, I could still do that. The game, including movement speed vs accuracy, would be mostly the same, but the hassle of engaging sprint over and over would be removed.
Click to expand...

I guess because before you're shooting thing, you're aiming at things and you can't do that effectively while sprinting. also, it's not as if you're walking slowly when you're not sprinting. you're actually running while you have your gun at the ready. think of the sprinting as the desperate attempt to reach your objective, also, I don't know how it is in KZ2, but in KZ1 there's stamina bar that limit how long you can sprint. so they can't certainly allow you to automatically sprint all the time when you're not shooting.

as for you other point about the controller is now analog so they should map walking to running to sprinting on the left analog stick alone, think about the bitching we had already when GG ask their player not to move the right analog to full range when you want to aim. (because moving the analog all the way will cause you to overshoot your aim, coupled with the momentum that people declared as input lag). ask them to do the same thing with left analog movement and I don't want to see how other shooter fans will react.
 
Full Recovery said:
You should be ashamed of yourself. You could have gotten 2 girls at the same time with that amount of cash.
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Are you implying that women are better than killzone? are you out of your freaking mind?


:D
 
bcn-ron said:
As far as Killzone 2 goes, I see it adding nothing with the HUD turned off, and just the crosshair thing with it on.
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In MP there seems to be a stamina bar (judging from videos) so you can't just sprint indefinitely.
 
Hyoushi said:
uh
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well from a collector's perspective that's well spent money, I arranged a trip to Japan with a friend and spent a fortune in Metal Gear games and merchandise (some of them rather obscure), everything remaining forever sealed at the safes. Killzone hasn't grown on me (yet) to do some crazy stuff for it, but I can understand this guy.
 
Danne-Danger said:
In MP there seems to be a stamina bar (judging from videos) so you can't just sprint indefinitely.
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Indeed. And they fixed the "jump bug" (or changed mind about a design choice). In the beta, you could jump while running and the stamina bar would partially refill while in the air, hence giving you the possibility to sprint almost indefinitely. Not anymore in the final version.
 
I myself can't get over the controls. It's weird because when I first finished the demo it didn't really give me any trouble, but after some more playthroughs it really started to annoy me, so much that I'm seriously considering not buying the game due to this.

I'm sorry, but to me, a game's controls need to be intuitive and smooth about all else. I realize it's meant to be realistic, but to me putting realism over gameplay is a huge mistake. I'll even take RE5's controls over KZ2's (even if RE5 sucks when it comes to the character's actions, at least the ones that you can perform work flawlessly, unlike in KZ2).
 
neorej said:
Only women dressed in Killzone-outfits.
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89j7dw


I must admit, you've got a point.
 
Lince said:
well from a collector's perspective that's well spent money, I arranged a trip to Japan with a friend and spent a fortune in Metal Gear games and merchandise (some of them rather obscure), everything remaining forever sealed at the safes. Killzone hasn't grown on me (yet) to do some crazy stuff for it, but I can understand this guy.
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I hope you did other things too, because nerdtravelling is way stupid.
 
Haunted said:
I just hope the SP campaign is nice and long.
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going by 99% of reviews and 100% of Gaffers that already finished the game the SP campaign is somewhat short... but the combat is nice, deep and fun enough you'll be replaying the campaign multiple times, quality over quantity.
 
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