Knights of the Old Republic II Has Gone Gold
- Thread starter IJoel
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Late Stage Marxist
Member
Still haven't played KOTOR 1. What's the battle system comparable to?
CrimsonSkies
Member
Can't wait!
Late Stage Marxist
Member
So it's somewhat automated? Not really player-controlled?Ghost said:
johnjohnson
Member
Just a few days left! GOTY 2004!
Teknopathetic
Member
"So it's somewhat automated? Not really player-controlled?"
Just like in Baldur's gate, you can automate it, but there's also a turn-pause option, and I think you can turn off party AI as well.
Just like in Baldur's gate, you can automate it, but there's also a turn-pause option, and I think you can turn off party AI as well.
trippingmartian said:
Not at all player controlled. You select attacks & powers (if you dont want to micromanage you can do it in real time quite effectively) for your team and watch them carry them out (or let AI run it). Like baldurs gate or any other bioware rpg i can think of.
Jade Empire is the game with the player controlled (or action orientated, whatever you want to call it) combat.
Edit: Or what Tre said if that makes more sense.
Late Stage Marxist
Member
Ah, probably not my cup of tea, but based on everything I've read about it I should at least give it a rent. 
joshschw said:He also has more than enough time to beat both endings
Hot damn! I forgot about playing this over again as dark.
I don't know if I'm ever going to buy another game: Backlog +1EDIT: ...which of course means KOTOR 2 will have to wait. But it's still much-anticipated.
The Abominable Snowman
Member
Haven't played the first KOTOR. But I had little idea KOTOR 2 was coming this early. GOTY LOL AM I RITE?
I'll pick up the first one soon, I suppose.
I'll pick up the first one soon, I suppose.
trippingmartian said:Ah, probably not my cup of tea, but based on everything I've read about it I should at least give it a rent.
You definitely should. It's the only RPG I've ever played to completion. Usually, I get fed up with boring, turn-based battles. This wasn't the case with KOTOR though.
I hope Obsidian hasn't fucked KOTOR up. Yes, I'm aware of Obsidian's storied lineage, and I loved Fallout 1 and 2, but handing over the reins of KOTOR 2's development still amounts to an additional risk of something going awry.
In particular, I hope that the environments don't look as bland as a whole as they do in individual screens.
In particular, I hope that the environments don't look as bland as a whole as they do in individual screens.
The Abominable Snowman
Member
Whoa? Developed by the Fallout guys AND with a few things from Baldur's Gate? I'm buying KOTOR next time I go out.Sein said:
Who said I was killing countless innocents? Was that you leaning over my shoulder while I finished GTA?
Regardless, if you're trying to compare the moral choices between KOTOR and the GTA series, you're dreaming. You can complete KOTOR's storyline while engaging in "good" or "bad" behaviour. GTA's storylines revolve around an antihero, so of course the behaviour you engage in is going to be "bad" in order to complete the game. Being able to differentiate between the two storylines and playing styles - and feel remorse when a gameplay choice is provided and I choose the less ethical one - is what defines my gaming experience and separates us from the sea turtles.
I'd also argue that despite the science-fiction fantasy backdrop of Star Wars, the satirical bent of the GTA series makes it easier to take less seriously as far as cartoony violence goes. San Andreas hits a little closer to home than GTA 3 or Vice City, in my opinion, but the argument still stands. Either way, it's secondary to the storyline design as far as I'm concerned.
Regardless, if you're trying to compare the moral choices between KOTOR and the GTA series, you're dreaming. You can complete KOTOR's storyline while engaging in "good" or "bad" behaviour. GTA's storylines revolve around an antihero, so of course the behaviour you engage in is going to be "bad" in order to complete the game. Being able to differentiate between the two storylines and playing styles - and feel remorse when a gameplay choice is provided and I choose the less ethical one - is what defines my gaming experience and separates us from the sea turtles.
I'd also argue that despite the science-fiction fantasy backdrop of Star Wars, the satirical bent of the GTA series makes it easier to take less seriously as far as cartoony violence goes. San Andreas hits a little closer to home than GTA 3 or Vice City, in my opinion, but the argument still stands. Either way, it's secondary to the storyline design as far as I'm concerned.
can't wait for KOTOR2. I didn't really like the combat of the first one (I also don't like the combat of the BG games as a comparison) but I don't care if the combat isn't totally thrilling, because I know the rest of the game is going to rock. KOTOR was a bit overrated (a bit, just because a lot of the stuff people were so wowed by like all the interaction with the NPCs and environment had been done for a long time on PC RPGs) but still a really great game, and KOTOR2 looks even better if you ask me. and I really don't enjoy Star Wars at all.
bishoptl said:
I grant that this was a baseless assumption.
bishoptl said:
That's a disingenuous distinction. There is no lack of choice in GTA. You must make the predicate decision of whether to play in the first place. If you're uncomfortable with unethical behavior directed at virtual people, then you always have the choice not to play a game that forces you into that position. If you feel uneasy following the dark path in KOTOR, then it's entirely inconsistent to play GTA at all.
bishoptl said:
I wholly disagree with this. The cynicism of the GTA games disconcerts me somewhat because the social commentary, glib though it is, reflects to some degree on reality. I think that this unease adds nuance to the GTA experience. KOTOR, on the other hand, is a fantasy not only terms of its setting. It's also a fantasy of morality in which choices between good and evil are clearly delineated and unrealistically simple. I can't recall any situation in KOTOR in which it's not immediately obvious what the "right" choice is. This simplicity lessens the impact on me of acting unethically.
Disingenous? That's not good enough. Are you equating my choice to play Dawn of War or Space Invaders with San Andreas or KOTOR? I'm killing aliens, placing human troops in the line of fire in order to win, and generally engaging in behaviour that I wouldn't want to emulate in real life. According to your logic, I am so simple as to be unable to make the distinction between the games I play, the storylines presented, and the choices involved when playing each game. If I was still a toddler, perhaps. Hell, following your argument to its conclusion, I should be uncomfortable playing any title but Tetris. Nice try, but no.
What you see as cynicism in the GTA series, I see (and enjoy) as sharp social satire. As for KOTOR, there are more than a few situations where the best (Light) choice wasn't readily apparent until I'd worked my way through the conversation trees multiple times - I haven't touched it in a few months, but a quick search on GameFAQs would refresh my memory if necessary.
Luckily, as it stands nobody's forcing you to participate in or even approve of the juggernaut that is GTA - and on your behalf I'm quite grateful.
What you see as cynicism in the GTA series, I see (and enjoy) as sharp social satire. As for KOTOR, there are more than a few situations where the best (Light) choice wasn't readily apparent until I'd worked my way through the conversation trees multiple times - I haven't touched it in a few months, but a quick search on GameFAQs would refresh my memory if necessary.
Luckily, as it stands nobody's forcing you to participate in or even approve of the juggernaut that is GTA - and on your behalf I'm quite grateful.
bishoptl said:
No, you're taking my argument to some unintelligible extreme, where nearly any argument will fail. Nice try, but no. I mentioned GTA because it's a recent game that is similarly situated to KOTOR; both games permit the player to take actions that many would regard as grossly unethical in real life. If you're uneasy with being unethical in one, then why not in the other?
The other games that you mention are dissimilar in that the player's actions have no real-life correlate (e.g., Space Invaders), or that reasonable minds can disagree over whether the player's actions would be ethical were they replicated in real life (e.g., war games).
bishoptl said:
That's you. I played KOTOR over the summer, so my memory of it is quite recent. I had no difficulty in discerning how my choices would affect my light/dark alignment. Fallout is a good example of a game in which there is genuine moral ambiguity.
bishoptl said:
I enjoy GTA. The whole point is that after massacring National Guardsmen just to steal their guns, it would be inane for me to turn around and feel bad about exploiting some helpless woman in Tatooine.
The bystanders in GTA are much more of a kin to the bystanders in Carmageddon than they are the NPCs in KOTOR. Sure you can choose to not run over people in Carmageddon if you wish but to equate driving over people in Carmageddon to torturing innocent prisoners of the Sith in KOTOR is not particularly reasonable, and that extends to the comparision between GTA NPCs and KOTOR NPCs.
Edit: One of the most important parts of this I feel is the 'uniqueness' of the characters. One hooker is just like any other hooker in GTA (same for grannies and policemen). No matter how many you kill, there's always going to be more. But there was only one helpless woman in Tatooine.
Edit: One of the most important parts of this I feel is the 'uniqueness' of the characters. One hooker is just like any other hooker in GTA (same for grannies and policemen). No matter how many you kill, there's always going to be more. But there was only one helpless woman in Tatooine.
Kabuki Waq
Member
let me put it this way sien what would make you more sad shooting your mom in the head or shooting some random old lady in the head?
You have to choose NOW!!!!
You have to choose NOW!!!!
Kabuki Waq
Member
CHOOSE!!!!
johnjohnson
Member
mac said:
It's already announced to release february 2005.
It's not fair to compare the moral choices in KOTOR and GTA. KOTOR is essentially a role-playing game in which you take on the role of a central character and through that character, affect the people around you in ways more profound than that found in the GTA series. The GTA pedestrians are faceless and essentially generic. Mowing them down with a car or a rifle is an entirely different experience from making a "dark" decision in KOTOR. The game world is KOTOR is also altered by your light/dark decisions whereas there are pretty much no repercussions arising from your random and "evil" deeds in GTA.
Well polygons is just one thing that game characters are made of....
there's also textures.
HAHAHAHHA. ahem.
but really I do think your view of game characters is inaccurate because they're not all created equal. Sure they're all made up of polygons, textures... but there's also script, voice acting, context, methods of interaction and the consequences of said interaction. You can't just discount these factors.
Edit: Plus the helpless woman in Tatooine is far from the most evil thing you can do in KOTOR, I've already mentioned torturing innocent prisoners for no good reason, and there's also the Wookie/Twilek finale. Damn that was harsh.
The characters in KOTOR simply had more of an emotional impact on me as a player. They shared their troubles, they told me their thoughts and showed emotions in some way. In short, the characters in KOTOR act more like humans to me, thus making it harder to be a bad guy.
So anyway, dragging the topic, kicking and screaming (and cursing) back to KOTOR2...
Has anyone checked out the offical site? I hope the music on there is from the game, its frikkin' awesome stuff, very dark and eery.
http://www.lucasarts.com/games/swkotor_sithlords/
Theres also some good background story info in the game info section (click on chronicles)
Edit: And some kickass wallpapers
Has anyone checked out the offical site? I hope the music on there is from the game, its frikkin' awesome stuff, very dark and eery.
http://www.lucasarts.com/games/swkotor_sithlords/
Theres also some good background story info in the game info section (click on chronicles)
Edit: And some kickass wallpapers