Fox and Falco play a lot differently. Falco is a more button intensive character while Fox is a lot easier to play. You'll see a lot more Foxes than Falcos in tournaments.
Though Falco is very good when played by someone who can handle him.
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Kotaku: Melee Player's Criminal History Divides Smash Bros. Community
- Thread starter Makonero
- Start date
Fox and Falco play a lot differently. Falco is a more button intensive character while Fox is a lot easier to play. You'll see a lot more Foxes than Falcos in tournaments.
Though Falco is very good when played by someone who can handle him.
chaosblade
Unconfirmed Member
Let him play. If he messes up again ban him. Second chances are fine as long as those giving them are also ready to act if the opportunity gets blown.
Besides, if he gets big into Melee again it could help keep him away from those bad crowds and generally be a good influence on him. The vast majority of the Melee community are good people to be around.
Falco is just having a bit of a down period in terms of representation and results at the top level. It's happened to other characters. Players will adapt and new stars will rise with new playstyles to counter the current meta, and then Falco will be "back."
At the moment there is basically only Mango (who is 50/50 Fox/Falco) and Westballz (who has had inconsistent results recently) at the very top level for Falco. There is a decent drop-off after that in terms of skill and placement.
Besides, if he gets big into Melee again it could help keep him away from those bad crowds and generally be a good influence on him. The vast majority of the Melee community are good people to be around.
Falco is just having a bit of a down period in terms of representation and results at the top level. It's happened to other characters. Players will adapt and new stars will rise with new playstyles to counter the current meta, and then Falco will be "back."
At the moment there is basically only Mango (who is 50/50 Fox/Falco) and Westballz (who has had inconsistent results recently) at the very top level for Falco. There is a decent drop-off after that in terms of skill and placement.
Lionel Richie
Member
Bullshit! Why do people do this? Like there's a legit argument to be made about violence against women being downplayed in society which is a very big concern and disgusting behavior, you don't need to make shit up.
That's the thing, as a TO you made the call. More TOs in the community need to get together and make decisions around things like this. They are ultimately the ones who run the show and having a unified (as much as that is possible) ruling on this sort of thing is important.
Happens all the time, even on GAF. Any time it gets brought up, people in droves come along with "Oh but the community is actually really good, they're just a bad apple and this is an isolated incident #notallgamers" and any retorts are them sticking their head in the sand and pretending they can't hear you.
Of course no one wants to admit something they love has a dark side, it's impossible to avoid but we all have to own up to it. By downplaying problems or ignoring them, you're both making yourself look bad and showing you don't want to help make the community you supposedly love better, instead preferring to pretend everything is perfect and lovely.
E-sports has a long way to go before it truly gets taken seriously and if people aren't willing to take measures in order to make events and games an enjoyable time for everyone, then they're to blame for E-sports not becoming bigger or better.
Yeah, that one kind of got me too - those don't sound like the words of a reformed man, just another person making poor excuses for his repeated mistakes.
NinjaCoachZ
Member
Yeah, this is one of the most bizarre examples of skewed priorities I've seen in a long time.
Mysterious
Banned
This is probably the kind of shit why Nintendo doesn't want to be affiliated with any of this stuff lol
Adam_Vania
Banned
In 2013, a court charged Layton with aggravated battery after his female housemate obtained a lacerated liver and fractured vertebrae in a fight. That charge was later dropped because, Layton says, he did not do it.
wait, what?
dude beats up women on the reg? yeah he sounds like some white trash piece of shit from Florida alright. one of these days he is going to fuck with the wrong person and get his ass kicked irl
wait, what?
dude beats up women on the reg? yeah he sounds like some white trash piece of shit from Florida alright. one of these days he is going to fuck with the wrong person and get his ass kicked irl
On one hand, people absolutely should have a chance at rehabilitation and returning to the things that they love if they can truly show that they have become better people (at least provided their crime isn't too heinous).
But the issue here is that the guy in question hasn't entirely regained the community's trust. Given his last outburst, which was only one in a long line of other things, was only a year ago, it is entirely reasonable that some people in the community wouldn't want him in there. He may be an inspirational Falco player, but the Melee community really should reconsider how immediately they are letting him back into prominence when it sounds like a chunk of the community isn't ready for him to be back.
But the issue here is that the guy in question hasn't entirely regained the community's trust. Given his last outburst, which was only one in a long line of other things, was only a year ago, it is entirely reasonable that some people in the community wouldn't want him in there. He may be an inspirational Falco player, but the Melee community really should reconsider how immediately they are letting him back into prominence when it sounds like a chunk of the community isn't ready for him to be back.
LegendofLex
Member
100%
also why they're locking down voice chat to a device that isn't one of their products
Mysterious
Banned
Yup was going to add that point too
Can you imagine them squirming at the headlines...
"CONVICTED WOMEN ASSAULTER AND CONVICTED RAPIST ALLOWED BACK INTO NINTENDO VIDEO GAME TOURNAMENT"
Yeah, I don't like it tbh. There's a bunch of dumb redditors who don't give a fuck what the few women in the community have to think though.
Apparently he's serious about redeeming himself though? I haven't heard of him doing anything since he came back. Hopefully that's true, although I was never a fan of giving him another chance to begin with.
Apparently he's serious about redeeming himself though? I haven't heard of him doing anything since he came back. Hopefully that's true, although I was never a fan of giving him another chance to begin with.
PadWarrior
Member
Yup and I don't blame them one bit.
I don't think he should be banned unless you want to instate a rule banning anyone with a criminal record - and that would be a weird (but not impossible) rule to implement in any competitive scene.
Beyond that, he's served the sentence for his crime(s) and should be allowed the chance to reintegrate with society. Same as anyone else.
(I know nothing about this guy except what's in the OP.)
Beyond that, he's served the sentence for his crime(s) and should be allowed the chance to reintegrate with society. Same as anyone else.
(I know nothing about this guy except what's in the OP.)
An artist can often be isolated from the people that don't feel safe around them. In an FGC tournament that's only possible if either the person with the violent history is banned, or the people who are scarred of them recuse themselves.
If players feel uncomfortable or unsafe around him then he should be banned. Individual TOs should determine this in coordination with players, but a full-stop ban on playing seems too early without misconduct at a Smash tournament itself.
As a Falco main, Shiz's play was always an influence to me and his game against M2K at ROM is still imo the greatest single game in Melee history. But that means nothing if he puts other players at risk
Umm, Shiz is black, he's playing Falco on the right
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TGmwLuQa-hg
As a Falco main, Shiz's play was always an influence to me and his game against M2K at ROM is still imo the greatest single game in Melee history. But that means nothing if he puts other players at risk
Umm, Shiz is black, he's playing Falco on the right
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TGmwLuQa-hg
Gentleman Jack
Member
And this is why organizational bodies like CPT should exist for Smash. Leaving it up to the individual TOs is what lets Noel Brown slip through the cracks over and over and over again because he was friends with well-connected people who could pressure TOs into giving him infinite second chances. Take it out of the hands of the TOs, make it a decision from higher up and shut them out for good.
Guy in the OP doesn't seem repentant in the least. Fuck your meta, you got other active members feeling legitimately threatened by his presence.
Guy in the OP doesn't seem repentant in the least. Fuck your meta, you got other active members feeling legitimately threatened by his presence.
If people feel threatened by this guy's existence then the only solution is to place him under permanent house-arrest, and that is presumably not the usual sentence for the crimes he has committed.
CrackPebbles
Member
smash community please stop making yourselves look bad
A Link to the Past
Banned
Permanently A
Junior Member
I mean OP just didn't include the part where he apologizes.
"Layton has completed 14 anger management and 14 substance abuse classes since the 2016 gas station incident and has shared proof on Twitter, where he also posted an apology: YES, I WAS a violent person. YES, I do have an exquisite criminal record. I am not denying any of those facts. I am sorry for the way that I was and the things I have done in my life. I am ashamed for a lot that has happened up till now. I did not mean to hurt anyone emotionally, or the people that I have hurt physically, although none of them are smashers."
Well, ain't that a relief.
There's a lot of talk in the community about how this guy has changed and how we should give him a second chance, but a lot of DSW's (DaShizWiz's) behavior indicates that he has very little control of his temper once it sets off. I'd be more understanding if two players got into a fistfight after an extended period of beef. People get into tussles in sports all the time, but DSW's aggression is the type of violence seems unconstrained and volatile by comparison.
He assaulted a gas station clerk, and continued to do so even after the clerk pulled a gun on him.
He was also charged with assault and battery towards his housemate, why? Because she refused to give him money to make a music video.
I'm sure he's a polite, courteous dude most of the time, so I can see where the "look he's changed!" argument is coming from, but when he's angry he poses a legitimate, life-threatening risk to those around him. Usually I'm all for second chances but this guy is just too much of a risk to allow back into the scene.
He assaulted a gas station clerk, and continued to do so even after the clerk pulled a gun on him.
He was also charged with assault and battery towards his housemate, why? Because she refused to give him money to make a music video.
I'm sure he's a polite, courteous dude most of the time, so I can see where the "look he's changed!" argument is coming from, but when he's angry he poses a legitimate, life-threatening risk to those around him. Usually I'm all for second chances but this guy is just too much of a risk to allow back into the scene.
From what i've seen shiz doesnt deny or excuse his crimes. Hes done his time and given hes never been a problem at events he deserves a chance. What good would ostracizing him do other than make his old habits more enticing.
Hes not white, dont be racist.
Jesus christ no! There are far better ways of handling this.
Weltall Zero
Member
This guy is a goldmine. My favorite part is calling his own criminal record "exquisite". You can feel the shame and repentance in his words!
Exactly, which is why bans for situations such as this should be done on a community by community basis. If he anyone should ban him, which I don't think there's much of a reason to at this point, then it should be limited to communities that have specifically been hurt by him. Which from what's in the article is no-one, since none of the incidents involved other smashers or smash events
Steve Youngblood
Member
Yeah. Honestly, I'm not really sure what the correct answer is here. But I sort of dislike the idea that his talent with a fan-favorite character should factor into consideration at all. If the argument is that we should let him back because it's not the communities job to litigate outside crimes, I can understand the argument. I'm not saying I'm won over completely, but I understand the argument. If the idea is that we would hold a top 10 (I pulled that number out of thin air) player to a different standard than a top 1000 player, then I'm not on board at all.
Giving people who he has made uncomfortable more time to decide if he has really done his time. Given Melee is at a point where it needs to be very careful about how it cultivates its community going forward, welcoming in a volatile player who is only a year off of an assault charge after a series of other actions that has a chunk of the community weary of him isn't going to do any good if it pushes out more people.
Professor Beef
Banned
chaosblade
Unconfirmed Member
This is basically why I said what I did. I don't think setting a precedent of banning anyone with any criminal history from the scene is a good way to go about things. Even if DSW fucks up and gets himself kicked out, it doesn't mean other people will have the same problems. Second chances are a good thing, they just don't need to turn into third, fourth, twelfth, thirty-first, etc.
If you are talking about Hyuga:
-He was banned from tournaments.
-No charges where made.
-He publicly apologized and stopped attending US tournaments even after the ban was lifted.
-He plays Smash 4.
A) Personal lives matter when they bleed out into public life. Assaulting a gas station clerk isn't just his "personal life"
B) Part of the community is uncomfortable with some of his past crimes having been targeting women
I am all for rehabilitation and people being able to rejoin society, but, again, I don't blame people for needing more than a year to be ready to reaccept a serial offender.
SciencePilot
Member
It's also worth considering that famous people are held to higher standards just by virtue of having more attention on them. If a nobody smash player committed a crime outside the smash community, they wouldn't be banned from tournaments because no one would even know about it. (Unless regular background checks are the standard for everyone, but I don't think they are?).
Is that fair? I'm not sure of the correct answer myself.
F0rneus
Tears in the rain
Judging from his comments in the OP article, he's far from rehabilitated.
Yeah, we celebrate football and hockey players who have done far worse. If the guy served his time, he should be eligible to play. If he does anything, then kick him and ban him. Having him banned because people feel uncomfortable he's around starts that whole 'slippery slope' argument of who's next to get banned.
His misconduct is outside the tournament scene though and people are going to be wary of a felon no matter what. Hes already been to multiple tournaments since release without incident, the best course of action in my opinion would be to closely observe his actions and ban him if he becomes volatile.
LucidMomentum
Member
This. Top player privilege is something I greatly dislike. No one should be allowed to get away with worse than what a newcomer would get disciplined for.
But technically Shiz hasn't done anything at a tourney yet so, we'll see what happens.
This is very unfair and tries to make a complex situation black and white.