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[Deleted member 231381]

https://www.theguardian.com/global/...s-for-lengthy-transitional-period-post-brexit

Labour is to announce a dramatic policy shift by backing continued membership of the EU single market beyond March 2019, when Britain leaves the EU, establishing a clear dividing line with the Tories on Brexit for the first time.

In a move that positions it decisively as the party of “soft Brexit”, Labour will support full participation in the single market and customs union during a lengthy “transitional period” that it believes could last between two and four years after the day of departure, it is to announce on Sunday.

This will mean that under a Labour government the UK would continue to abide by the EU’s free movement rules, accept the jurisdiction of the European court of justice on trade and economic issues, and pay into the EU budget for a period of years after Brexit, in the hope of lessening the shock of leaving to the UK economy. In a further move that will delight many pro-EU Labour backers, Jeremy Corbyn’s party will also leave open the option of the UK remaining a member of the customs union and single market for good, beyond the end of the transitional period.

Pro-EU Tory MPs, who also support remaining in the single market, will be put under intense pressure by Labour to fall in behind its position and rebel against their own party. If significant numbers were to do so, Theresa May’s already shaky grip on power would be seriously threatened.

I will announce my resignation as Conservative party leader if old.

 

[Camper Van Beethoven]

And why didn't they do this before the election

 

[TiredofWinning]

Does this mean free movement as well?

I'd like a stop to Brexit, but this policy is a step up from Corbyn's complete acquiescence to hard Brexit.

 

[diaspora]

why not just like

oppose brexit entirely

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

if you're gonna be in the opposition for an extended time better to actually pick a stance that's opposed to the leading party

 

[Goldfishking]

Does this mean free movement as well?

.

This will mean that under a Labour government the UK would continue to abide by the EU's free movement rules, accept the jurisdiction of the European court of justice on trade and economic issues, and pay into the EU budget for a period of years after Brexit, in the hope of lessening the shock of leaving to the UK economy. In a further move that will delight many pro-EU Labour backers, Jeremy Corbyn's party will also leave open the option of the UK remaining a member of the customs union and single market for good, beyond the end of the transitional period.

 

[Hagi]

Might as well just stay in.

 

[theaface]

And why didn't they do this before the election

Because the stories wanted it to be an election about Brexit. By refusing to draw a divide between themselves and the Tories, it nullified the issue and allowed the election to be about a host of different topics. By all accounts, it worked.

That said, about fucking time. If only more politicians spoke out in stronger terms against this insanity.

 

[HazySaiyan]

why not just like

oppose brexit entirely

Because as stupid as Brexit is, outright opposing it would be political suicide. A lot of Labour strongholds voted in favour of leaving

 

[Deleted member 231381]

And why didn't they do this before the election

Because it was a vote-losing policy. I think Labour are hedging their bets that people will change their minds between now and the next election.

 

[Dynasty]

So going to end up with a worse deal than before.

Was going to happen no matter what anyway, we had the best deal when we were still in the union.

 

[Guerrillas in the Mist]

Labour's stance on Brexit really pisses me off. As a Remainer, I hate that they've made a massive effort to court us, while giving every indication of just wanting a Hard Brexit, just not quite to the same degree as some Tories.

If I lived in England, I'd seriously consider joining the Lib Dems and getting active in building that party back up.

 

[Pie and Beans]

And why didn't they do this before the election

Because Corbyn. No "this was purely tactical" bullshit is going to hide the fact the party has probably been bashing their heads against The Corbyn Wall for months to get this sea-change.

 

[Jonnax]

And why didn't they do this before the election

Because remainers would not vote for them.

 

[Wvrs]

why not just like

oppose brexit entirely

Too much of its support base voted to leave; the situation calls for baby steps, we can move towards a transitional deal and then move towards a second referendum at some point.

We're a world away from 'brexit means brexit, no deal is better than a bad deal, will of the people' spiel that seemed dominant after June 2017 until a few months back. We've got a strong opposition going into the new parliamentary session, and fingers crossed that some progress in the right direction is made.

 

[Jezbollah]

So going to end up with a worse deal than before.

Any deal is worse than before tbh.

Thank god Labour actually have a stance here. Their approach to Brexit has been confusing as fuck.

 

[Stumpokapow]

Granted that Brexit is bad for Europe and the UK and so prolonging it is in some narrow sense economically advantageous, but the value of signalling against subsequent Euroskepticism is higher, and so I believe the EU should concede nothing in negotiations and cut Britain loose as fast and as decisively as possible. Wait ten years and hopefully both the Conservatives and Labour will negotiate Britain's re-entry, this time without so many special exemptions.

 

[WhateverItTakes]

It's more sane than the Tories plan (what plan, even), but still less smart than, y'know, remaining. Putting out something solid makes them sound way more competent than the sitting government anyhow.

Spoiler

Still faintly holding out hope that the next election brings a Lib Dem coalition somehow, they force another referendum that is 'begrudgingly' gone along with and we actually get out of this mess, albeit with concessions as a punishment. But we're destined for madness probably.

 

[IdreamofHIME]

Be interesting to see how many actually stick to this.

 

[Xando]

I‘m suprised this is such a big topic.

Anything but a transition would be the economic equivalent of jumping out of a plane without parachute

 

[Stumpokapow]

I‘m suprised this is such a big topic.

Anything but a transition would be the economic equivalent of jumping out of a plane without parachute

It's more like you've already decided to jump out of the plane without a parachute, having just called the pilot an asshole and insulted his wife, and now one of your team mates is saying it's worth negotiating with the pilot to try to get a blanket because, hey, it's better than nothing.

 

[Jackpot]

And why didn't they do this before the election

Because they wanted to leave.

Remember, Corbyn demanded Article 50 be invoked the day after the referendum.

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

I‘m suprised this is such a big topic.

Anything but a transition would be the economic equivalent of jumping out of a plane without parachute

let's just say the method of leaving the union wasn't very extensively thought through.

 

[kirblar]

It's more like you've already decided to jump out of the plane without a parachute, having just called the pilot an asshole and insulted his wife, and now one of your team mates is saying it's worth negotiating with the pilot to try to get a blanket because, hey, it's better than nothing.

*all because the pilot's non-white and you're upset about him being higher status than you are.

 

[Uzzy]

And why didn't they do this before the election

Because then May would have been enjoying a two hundred seat majority and we'd have left the EU already.

It's smart timing really, and it's broadly consistent with previous statements from the Labour Party. They can point to the incoherent negotiation positions taken by the Government, and the likelyhood of not moving onto the trade deal talks in October, and say 'lets think again'

 

[Jezbollah]

let's just say the method of leaving the union wasn't very extensively thought through.

I suspect that the reason for this is that Leave never thought they would win..

 

[Deleted member 231381]

*all because the pilot's non-white and you're upset about him being higher status than you are.

Since the idea is to reduce European immigration, the racism is normally directed at Poles, who are still white.

 

[Red]

Granted that Brexit is bad for Europe and the UK and so prolonging it is in some narrow sense economically advantageous, but the value of signalling against subsequent Euroskepticism is higher, and so I believe the EU should concede nothing in negotiations and cut Britain loose as fast and as decisively as possible. Wait ten years and hopefully both the Conservatives and Labour will negotiate Britain's re-entry, this time without so many special exemptions.

Yeah, this is what should happen.

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

I suspect that the reason for this is that Leave never thought they would win..

I was referring to the treaty of lisbon mostly but wasn't the leave campaign nonpartisan and bereft of real leadership and any planning or foresight or any critical thinking whatsoever past winning?

 

[Jackpot]

Because then May would have been enjoying a two hundred seat majority and we'd have left the EU already

No.

 

[killer_clank]

Yeah, this is what should happen.

It's not going to happen though, the only way Britain would ever rejoin is if it remained in the single market and opinions changed as time happens, if we break away from being a European focused economy to a world based one with bilateral free trade deals then there's no way back and it would never happen. So for people wanting Britain to remain associated with the EU as much as possible then keeping it in the single market has to be the goal

 

[oti]

OK? So what? Not like they're the ones negotiating with the EU.

 

[kirblar]

Since the idea is to reduce European immigration, the racism is normally directed at Poles, who are still white.

Being Caucasian hasn't really stopped groups from getting kicked out of the "white" bucket before, either in the US or Europe!

 

[axisofweevils]

This really doesn't seem any different to what the Tories plans are. Just a cynical attempt to string Remainers along, because they know they need their votes.

 

[Stumpokapow]

OK? So what? Not like they're the ones negotiating with the EU.

To be fair, the Tories aren't negotiating with the EU either.

 

[oti]

To be fair, the Tories aren't negotiating with the EU either.

👍

 

[Linkstrikesback]

why not just like

oppose brexit entirely

Because the country is full of idiots making up at least 52% of the voting public that would lead that to be political suicide for a party that did it.

 

[Uzzy]

OK? So what? Not like they're the ones negotiating with the EU.

If they get the support of seven Tory MPs for these proposals, they can bring down the Government. Then they will be negotiating with the EU.

 

[Xando]

Someone should ask Corbyn what he plans for the time after the three year transition.

Everyone knows the only sensible option short of stopping this foolishness is full EEA membership (Norway model). It’s the best deal britain is gonna get

 

[oti]

If they get the support of seven Tory MPs for these proposals, they can bring down the Government. Then they will be negotiating with the EU.

That would mean another general election though, right?
How lovely that would be.

 

[killer_clank]

This really doesn't seem any different to what the Tories plans are. Just a cynical attempt to string Remainers along, because they know they need their votes.

I'd argue it's pretty significant actually, if this happened then you're really just kicking down the can of the hard Brexit part and the problems don't go away. An extended transition in SM/CU would end up just keeping going I would think if the economy was ticking along nicely and some of the anger from the Brexit referendum subsides. Sure it's not perfect but it's a pretty welcome development for remainers

 

[Camper Van Beethoven]

Because remainers would not vote for them.

And they did now?

I don't buy the logic that there's really this massive sea of people who voted for Corbyn only because they think he's pro brexit when only a small majority of the country voted for it.

 

[Xando]

I'd argue it's pretty significant actually, if this happened then you're really just kicking down the can of the hard Brexit part and the problems don't go away. An extended transition in SM/CU would end up just keeping going I would think if the economy was ticking along nicely and some of the anger from the Brexit referendum subsides. Sure it's not perfect but it's a pretty welcome development for remainers

A transitional deal would not be able to just keep going as the EU parliament and some member states will veto anything longer than 3 years.

 

[Plum]

Does what the opposition party to an (albeit minority) government think really matter in EU negotiations? We don't exactly have much, if any, cards to play in these negotiations to begin with. Though, I must admit, I haven't been keeping up with Brexit due to it being too depressing to bother with a lot of the time.

 

[Purkake4]

I look forward to the position evolving further in the coming years.

 

[commedieu]

Is there a European phrase for a deal that is the equal to kissing your sister?

 

[Uzzy]

That would mean another general election though, right?
How lovely that would be.

So lovely.

Someone should ask Corbyn what he plans for the time after the three year transition.

Everyone knows the only sensible option short of stopping this foolishness is full EEA membership (Norway model). It’s the best deal britain is gonna get

Right now, Labour aren't ruling that out. They're saying that should they be able to get some reforms on freedom of movement, they could go into the EEA permanently. Given that even Cameron managed to get some reforms offered, there's possibilities there.

 

[killer_clank]

A transitional deal would not be able to just keep going as the EU parliament and some member states will veto anything longer than 3 years.

Why though? If everything is working well and the British government of the time wasn't actively EU antagonistic as the current one then it's really in no ones interest to then suddenly go more hard Brexit. Obviously it would have to be agreed on a more permanent basis at that point, but hard Brexit isn't in the UK or the EUs interest (Brexit is obviously worse for the UK but it's still not ideal for the remaining EU either)

 

[The Technomancer]

Well its a start

 

[Ravensmash]

Because the country is full of idiots making up at least 52% of the voting public that would lead that to be political suicide for a party that did it.

"Screw negotiations!!1 Brexit means Brexit! We should stop it all now!!!11"

Genuinely reflects comments I've seen.