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Late to the nostalgia party: Midway Arcade "Treasures" II

jgkspsx

Member
OK, a bit of backstory. I love classic arcade games. Williams put out my favorite stuff, but Atari, Konami, Atari Games etc. put out many games core to my understanding of gaming. I have every non-Namco US-released arcade compilation for the PSX, picked up Midway Arcade Treasures 1 the day it came out, and have not gone without a playable version of Joust for... about 21 years :)

It's not just nostalgia, either: I didn't play Time Pilot until 1998, but it's one of my favorite games now. The same with many more slightly obscure titles. So, what with MAT2 hitting $10 at Amazon, I figured I'd pick it up and see if anything stuck. What I got was a fairly convincing lesson in why arcades died.

The gamelist:
Midway
Mortal Kombat II
Mortal Kombat III
NARC
Cyberball 2072
Timber
Total Carnage
Wizard of Wor
Arch Rivals
Rampage World Tour
Kozmik Krooz'r
Wacko

Atari Games
Gauntlet II
Spy Hunter II
Xybots
APB
Pit Fighter
Xenophobe
Primal Rage
Championship Sprint
Hard Drivin'

Of course, the reason to own this kompilation is Mortal Kombat II and II. These are the arcade versions, near as I remember them, and they've never looked better on a home console. Which is why it was maddeningly stupid of them to leave off the original game! But, yeah. A great multiplayer game (once you remember the moves :lol) and a great conversion/emulation.

(The catch is that I hardly played the arcade versions. Everyone at my school was addicted to the Genesis version of MKII. That's the canonical version to me. Also I am far too weaksauce to play the arcade version. Also the Gamecube controller is shit for fighters. These are hardly fair to hold against it, though. Mortal Kombat is the reason to own this title.)
10 credits

I credit-fed through NARC. I only played this a few times in the arcade. At the default difficulty setting, anyway, this game allows for very little skill on the part of the player and more or less overwhelms with enemies. Maybe somewhere there's someone who can make it through on one credit, but I wouldn't bet on it.

Compared with golden-age arcade games, which were often very artful and geometric (think Robotron or Joust), the badly done digital graphics and bizarre voices -- and the ludicrous gibs -- make this almost the stereotypical videogame as perceived by the media. Its rancid character designs, ugly levels, and innumerable grotesqueries, although funny, made me want to shower afterward. (It's also the trippiest game ever to claim to be anti-drug.)
5 credits

I did not play Cyberball 2072. Maybe I will, maybe I won't. I don't expect anything as good as Speedball 2, that's for sure.

Total Carnage, the psuedo-sequel to Smash TV and by extension Robotron, shares many characteristics with NARC, but it's gameplay feels more pure. Merging the classic kill'em'all gameplay with Ikari Warriors/Bionic Commando/Contra-type scrolling action and an interesting warp/key system, it seems like it should have everything it needs to succeed. But it doesn't. I think it's kind of like Joust 2: they threw too much complexity on a structure that just couldn't support it.
5 credits

Wizard of Wor sure might have been cool at some point. Wait, no. It's like Berzerk's retarded cousin. Blech.
2 credits

Arch Rivals is to NBA Jam as Pit Fighter is to Mortal Kombat. That's not fair to Arch Rivals, which, unlike Pit Fighter, is actually fun. NBA Jam was arguably the best of Midway's arcade games of that era, though, and this feels wrong: close enough to the NBA Jam gameplay and graphics that you expect a lot, primitive enough that you don't get it. I grieve for NBA Jam. I wish they'd hacked all fake people into that (or Tournament Edition) and released it on this compilation.
6 credits for good behavior.

Rampage World Tour is one I'd never played before and was much better than I expected. Oh, the gameplay is still crap, but monsters! Buildings! Tanks! Great fun for multiple players, and very visually entertaining. The improved graphics make me feel much guiltier about all the destruction, though. Also Betty Veronica... yeah.
6 credits but every minute you play turns more of your brain to goo.

Kozmik Krooz'r is most notable for Digital Eclipse's brilliant simulation of the reflected "mothership" model. Otherwise the gameplay is very (VERY) banal, the sound is worthless, and, well, yeah. Not a bad game, but not a game I'd pay a quarter to play. I can watch the mothership spin in the attract mode, thanks.
3 credits

Wacko. What the hell is this. It's a puzzle shooter with a four-way firing stick. A kid's game for dull kids. Why they included this is beyond me.
1 credit

Well, Timber isn't offensively bad, like Wacko, but it's boring and pointless, two things an arcade game must never be. I'm working against a deadline and trying to keep my boss happy? Wow, there's an experience I want to live in free time I'm spending in an arcade!
3 credits

On the Atari Games side...
Gauntlet II does not appear significantly different from Gauntlet. OK, there are the new relics that confer invulnerability, additional combat power, invisibility, warping, etc, but it feels much the same (though maybe a bit harder). Gauntlet always did seem a bit too repetitive and quarter-greedy to me, but it's great multi-player fun.
7 credits

I don't know what happened to Spy Hunter II. They had a good thing going in the original, overrated as it was. But then they put it into an ugly Mode 7-ish world that would make Yu Suzuki cry and generally made it even harder to anticipate and avoid crashes. Boo. I wonder where things went wrong.
4 credits

Can someone tell me what the difference is between Super Sprint and Championship Sprint? 'Cause I'm not seeing it.
6 credits

Ah, APB. The game that made the estimable Dave Theurer quit the gaming industry. It's a fun game even today, and probably was one of the first games to be set in a living city, but it suffers somewhat from the lack of the arcade setup. Nevertheless, this supplants the Atari Lynx version as the best home version.
8 credits

Xenophobe was more fun on the Lynx (and looked nearly as good). (Incidentally, this compilation and its two siblings contain (nearly) every Atari Games release that was ported to the Lynx. Blue Lightning, Hydra, and Steel Talons, if I recall correctly, are the missing arcade ports. Play and compare!) The default difficulty level here seems to be designed for three players. It's still a pretty good game, but it suffers from too much ambition and too little gameplay.
6 credits

Primal Rage. Big dinosaurs make fight. Bash in head your friend's with spiked tail. Ug. Play caveman volleyball when you get bored. One of the few fighting games that allows you to urinate on a downed foe.
7 credits

Pit Fighter is shit, has always been shit, and will always be shit. That's just the way it is. I creditfed through the whole game. It still is shit (though it would probably be riotously funny iff you were drunk).
2 credits

Hey, kids, it's innovation alley! :

Xybots is a third-person over-the-shoulder shooter, with a neat upgrade system. In reality, though, its roots as Gauntlet 3D are very obvious. I had more fun with it on the Lynx, but my tastes wrt the Lynx are somewhat questionable.
5 credits

Hard Drivin' was the Gran Turismo of its time. But then again, the Ridge Racer of its time was Outrun. This is streets ahead of the Lynx version, no pun intended, but it's really a museum piece and nothing more.
5 credits

-- WARNING WARNING WARNING --
-- theoretical babbling ahead --
-- WARNING WARNING WARNING --

My pet theory is that the classic games that survive aging do so because they're evolutionary dead-ends to gaming. Joust could never really be further developed or improved upon. Sinistar doesn't lend well to enhancement (though Namco certainly tried with Bosconian).

To my way, classic "realistic" racing games like Pole Position do not survive very well because the experience they're seeking to convey could be enhanced and developed -- Ridge Racers is further proof of that. I like Virtua Racing still, mostly due to the music and control, but I wouldn't take it over a modern racer. But look at the platformer -- Mario 3 probably did everything that could be done with it in 2D, and yet we still salivate over Sonic Rush and Super Mario Brothers 4 because the 3D "platformer" is not the same animal.

I've run out of steam on this topic, but those naysayers who attack classic games and gamers as being purely nostalgia-driven are missing a rather important point. In the case of MAT2, though, they're right: the best thing on offer here is nostalgia, followed by brainless button-hammering. And that's that.
 

MetalAlien

Banned
I love old games, mostly because I too am ...old... Yea....

I own both of the midway discs and a couple of the namco, one atari... Love'em.. My nephews love those old games.... they want to play those more than modern games.
 

Anyanka

Member
The MK II and MK3 on MAT2 are good but have problems. You can't fight Smoke in MKII, there's sound problems during the ending, the shadows look horrible, there's slowdown on PS2 and unlocking Smoke in MK3 is difficult and isn't saved. Plus it's just lame that it isn't UMK3.

MK II on Genesis is horrible.
 

Agent X

Member
jgkspsx said:
Xenophobe was more fun on the Lynx (and looked nearly as good). (Incidentally, this compilation and its two siblings contain (nearly) every Atari Games release that was ported to the Lynx. Blue Lightning, Hydra, and Steel Talons, if I recall correctly, are the missing arcade ports. Play and compare!)

Blue Lightning was never an arcade game. But yes, it seems that Hydra and Steel Talons were the only Atari Games arcade games that haven't appeared on a Midway Arcade Treasures compilation disc (and also S.T.U.N. Runner, but that's due to appear on Midway Arcade Treasures 3, which will be released in just a few days). There's also Gauntlet: The Third Encounter which was licensed from Atari Games, but is not a port of any other Gauntlet game.

Just for fun, here's a list of the Midway, Williams, Leland/Tradewest, and Atari Games arcade video games that were ported to Lynx, along with the Midway Arcade Treasures disc that the emulated/translated arcade version appears on:

A.P.B. -- MAT2
Hard Drivin' -- MAT2
Hydra -- none
Joust -- MAT1
Klax -- MAT1
Paperboy -- MAT1
Pit-Fighter -- MAT2
Rampage -- MAT1
Rampart -- MAT1
RoadBlasters -- MAT1
Robotron: 2084 -- MAT1
S.T.U.N. Runner -- MAT3
Steel Talons -- none
Super Off-Road -- MAT3
Tournament Cyberball -- MAT2
Xenophobe -- MAT2
Xybots -- MAT2

Click the name of the game to see the Lynx version, and the MAT disc to see the corresponding game's page on Midway's Web site! :)
 

DDayton

(more a nerd than a geek)
I do wish they had skipped the MAT3 idea and just given us another 20 Midway/Williams/Atari titles.
 

Ben Sones

Member
jgkspsx said:
Gauntlet II does not appear significantly different from Gauntlet. OK, there are the new relics that confer invulnerability, additional combat power, invisibility, warping, etc, but it feels much the same (though maybe a bit harder). Gauntlet always did seem a bit too repetitive and quarter-greedy to me, but it's great multi-player fun.

The biggest new feature in Gauntlet II is less obvious in emulation--it allowed each of the four players to select any character. Other than that, it was pretty similar to Gauntlet.

Man, I loved Xybots in the arcade. It had that awesome joystick that you twisted to turn right or left.
 
Great thread, and I agree with your assessment of why some games endure and others don't. I've often metioned Pole Position as a game that was oen of my absolute favorites back in the day and which does nothing for me now.
 

Mallrat83

Banned
Kind of related, but not really, but I have a question about the Capcom Collection coming out later this month. Has the full games list been revealed? If so, can anyone post it please? Thanks.
 
More reactions:

Wizard of Wor was pretty decent back in the day, and I had a home version for Bally Astrocade which was very faithful. But it's a bit vanilla now.

Some game concepts can be expanded upon, and have, but rarely attain the same status as their popular forebears. It's not just the evolutionary dead-end aspect-- it's that whatever the core draw was is not adequately enhanced by the sequel/variant.

Example of one that was successful-- Arkanoid is well-remembered, and probably played more than Breakout. But, there were also games which were enhancements to others that didn't have the same lasting power. Baloon Fight is a pretty decent expansion of Joust, yet not as well-regarded. Why? Becuase Joust did it first, and Baloon Fight capured the dynamics (and expandedon the gameplay a lot) without ever getting the urgency or thrill or threat of the original. Smash TV is a pretty well-regarded Robotron variant, becuase it added to the experience without losing what made it essential. Total Carnage didn't really build on that, it actually watered it down.

I think some of these "evolutionary dead-ends" aren't really dead ends, but rather that it's tricky business to know what really drives a game experience.

Oh, and yeah, this is a pretty disappointing collection. Several of these games were not even good when they were new, many do not survive the move to free play (Gauntlet especially) or to the controlled (the whole Sprint series), and a few have merely aged badly. But Spy Hunter 2 was always bad.
 

evil ways

Member
I picked it up used for $14.99 a few months ago and it's better than I expected. MKII isn't that bad, but MK3 sound is really screwed up, especially during fatalities where the "Finish Him" music keeps playing even after the fatality is performed.
 
Just for fun, here's a list of the Midway, Williams, Leland/Tradewest, and Atari Games arcade video games that were ported to Lynx, along with the Midway Arcade Treasures disc that the emulated/translated arcade version appears on:

A.P.B. -- MAT2
Hard Drivin' -- MAT2
Hydra -- none
Joust -- MAT1
Klax -- MAT1
Paperboy -- MAT1
Pit-Fighter -- MAT2
Rampage -- MAT1
Rampart -- MAT1
RoadBlasters -- MAT1
Robotron: 2084 -- MAT1
S.T.U.N. Runner -- MAT3
Steel Talons -- none
Super Off-Road -- MAT3
Tournament Cyberball -- MAT2
Xenophobe -- MAT2
Xybots -- MAT2

There's some great games in that list, and most of the Lynx versions were very impressive. That little system might have been too big, too battery-hungry, and lacking 'japanese' titles, but damn I had some great fun with that thing. Throw in the originals like Warbirds, Chip's Challenge, and Battlewheels and you've got a lineup worthy of praise.
 

Stinkles

Clothed, sober, cooperative
MKs I and II are the worst popular games evar.

That's not even an opinion. There is math to back it up.

Prove it yourself - go play say, Street Fighter II on MAME and then try MK II.
 
I felt the same way about Total Carnage the first time I played it. It was Smash TV with unnecessary extra stuff bogging it down.

Once I played it a couple times (with a friend -- that's absolutely essential), it finally did click with me. Finding secret areas, getting keys, dropping bombs, and all that soon felt totally natural. It's great trying to beat out the other player for some of that Big Stuff Bonus. Having played through Smash TV dozens of times, all of Total Carnage's in-game references to Smash TV also made it a lot more fun.

Plus you get to
fry General Akhboob's ass
.
 
I actually liked the collection, even though I normally hate 90% of what Midway puts out. Xybots was fun, Rampage was enjoyable, Total Carnage was really fun (then again I never played Smash TV). I think I'll get the PSP version for a few more classics.
 

Sp3eD

0G M3mbeR
I was so looking forward to Hard Drivin on this pack. Then I played it and it was just buggy as hell. Not even fun.
 

Mallrat83

Banned
Ristamar said:
I agree.

Conversely, Primal Rage has always sucked.
On that note, was Primal Rage 2 ever released to arcades? I remember reading a short preview about it years ago in an old EGM but never actually seeing or hearing about its release.
 

DeadTrees

Member
Games I've played:

Mortal Kombat II - First major arcade game that was 100% PCM. No FM, no analog sound chips. Vastly improved sound and music compared to Mortal Kombat (put both cabinets side by side - the first game sounds likes it's coming through a tin can.) *Much* more vivid graphics. Deeper gameplay (no SFII, though). Once of the cheapest, lamest AI's ever.

Mortal Kombat III - a step backward in graphic design (Stryker? Nightwolf? *The Bank*?)

NARC - people forget that the graphics and sound *destroyed* anything else in the arcades in 1988, except for the laserdisc games (and *maybe* the first few CPS games). First major game with digitized characters. (Yeah, vector graphics are nice to look at...for about five minutes.) Seeing flying body parts in an arcade in 1988 is up there with seeing a porn mag for the first time for lots of people. If you can't laugh at Mr. Big's photographs of himself (titled "ME") I'm deeply sorry. Yes, this is a quarter-muncher, although maxing out your arrests in the first few levels helps. One of the worst endings ever. Needs a next-gen sequel (oh wait...ummmm...never mind).

Cyberball 2072 - another "needs a next-gen update" game.

Total Carnage - I loathe Smash TV with a passion - I swear some of those levels took *hours* before they ended. This is an improvement, but not by much.

Rampage World Tour - Meh. It's OK.

Gauntlet II - Other minor things added to the sequel: a new title theme, quasi-random levels, reflecting shots (oh, the *pain*...), "It".

Spy Hunter II - this game sucked ass when it was released, and only got worse.

Xybots - 3D Gauntlet. Not bad.

APB - Police brutality!

Pit Fighter - I'm not as down on this game as most people - give it faster hardware and some FM programming that doesn't suck, and it'd probably be good. This did *very* well when it was released...and then disappeared after a month.

Xenophobe - Coulda, woulda, shoulda. Too cartoony and too few aliens. Offered lots of interactivity for its time, though.

jgkspsx said:
My pet theory is that the classic games that survive aging do so because they're evolutionary dead-ends to gaming. Joust could never really be further developed or improved upon.
I don't think there are too many plausible ways to update a game based on knights who fly around on giant ostriches. I'd love to hear it pitched at an EA meeting, though.

jgkspsx said:
But look at the platformer -- Mario 3 probably did everything that could be done with it in 2D...
*cough*Symphony of the Night*chortle*

Seriously, *all* the game mechanics in the games listed have been steadily improved on over the years. Some games nowadays even have decent plots and characters, too! :lol
 
I've always liked Wizard of Wor, fun two-player. I like that it's vanilla. Then again, I'm a Wacko fan (with it's slanted cabinet, it was like a kiddie Robotron).

NARC sucks, but it's more fun than Pit Fighter, Primal Rage, Cyberball or the hard to control Championship Sprint. Narc's no Total Carnage, which I've never seen in the arcades, but it's a fine follow up to STV.

Timber and Kosmik Krooz'r are more curios than games, but I did go on a Timber tear. It's the same guy from Tapper! (it seemed like it used a modded Tapper cabinet)

Xenophobe for me aged poorly with its slow, wonky controls. X-wise, I'll go for Xybots which I played a lot at the arcade.

APB and Hard Drivin' could be better in its original cabinet (with its steering wheels) but it's a nice touch they're featured here.

Now bring out MAT3 already!
 

jgkspsx

Member
Of course Primal Rage sucks, but it's stop-motion animated DINOSAURS and big monkeys. That's worth something. Also the easter eggs rock.

Why no Revolution X?!?! ;)

DeadTrees said:
Mortal Kombat II - First major arcade game that was 100% PCM. No FM, no analog sound chips. Vastly improved sound and music compared to Mortal Kombat (put both cabinets side by side - the first game sounds likes it's coming through a tin can.) *Much* more vivid graphics. Deeper gameplay (no SFII, though). Once of the cheapest, lamest AI's ever.

Mortal Kombat III - a step backward in graphic design (Stryker? Nightwolf? *The Bank*?)
Yeah, I never liked three (though robot ninjas were kinda cool. Mortal Kombat might have sucked, objectively, but as a multiplayer nostalgia experience, it IS the draw here. I sorta used the Game Informer rating scale for MK, as I'd rather play Xybots (which I should have given 7 -- but, again, Game Informer scale).

NARC - people forget that the graphics and sound *destroyed* anything else in the arcades in 1988, except for the laserdisc games (and *maybe* the first few CPS games).
I didn't forget, but such things are harder to appreciate than the first stabs at polygonal graphics or great, undying gameplay, eh. (And vector graphics will kick your ass if you meet them in a dark alley. Tempest alone will do it, if pressed.)

If you can't laugh at Mr. Big's photographs of himself (titled "ME") I'm deeply sorry.
Best part of the game, probably. I can't believe they got away with the prostitutes, heh.

I don't think there are too many plausible ways to update a game based on knights who fly around on giant ostriches. I'd love to hear it pitched at an EA meeting, though.
I'm hoping someone with better art skills than I does a homebrew 3D version that retains the gameplay... sort of like GLTron. Though knowing what's going on around you will be difficult.

*cough*Symphony of the Night*chortle*
But SotN isn't a very good platformer as far as the core mechanics of the genre go. It has some challenging sequences, but the gameplay focus has shifted completely. It's a much better game (I don't even like Mario 3 that much, TBH), but it doesn't fulfill the operational mandate of the "platformer" genre as well. Neither does Sonic, even though I much prefer those to Mario.

Seriously, *all* the game mechanics in the games listed have been steadily improved on over the years.
Care to back that up? See, my problem with Xenophobe, Xybots, Hard Drivin', etc. was that the core gameplay was much better suited to worlds possible in modern gaming than to the approximations they found themselves in. The same is not true of games like Robotron (whose last? descendents, the Loaded series and Machine Hunter, weren't really up to the tradition, though the latter had some really good moments).
 
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