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[Phoenix]

I just watched this movie on Comcast On Demand. I don't know why I never made it to see this one in theaters and I'm kicking myself for that (as even the best home theater can't compete with the big screen). This movie was actually very good - I enjoyed the entire thing. I never pay much attention to critics, but when this movie came out there were many people - especially here, with much hate for this movie and I just don't understand why. This was a good film. It was very 'personable' and while I'm sure its not accurate to the lifestyles of the Samauri or its portrayal of the modernization of Japan (though I have learned that some of the effects were actually like that), I have at least a bit more understanding of the death of the 'old ways' of a society that I respected very much.

And then it made me wonder - would there ever be a film of even THAT caliber about the people of Native America who were driven to what is best considered 'endangered society' status or of the peoples of Africa? It really made me think about how these two cultures of people are so neglected in their accurate portrayal on the big screen.

 

[Amneziak]

The Last Samurai is a great film. Ken Watanabe and Hiroyuki Sanada are excellent and steal the show from Tom Cruise (Not to say he wasn't great--he was, though some of his dialogue is too modern). My only problem with the film is the "Hollywood" ending (at least the narrator states that know one knows for sure), though that's only a nitpick.

Now I'm dying to see The Twilight Samurai (starring Sanada), but I have yet to find it anywhere in San Diego.

If you haven't already, read Lone Wolf & Cub or Samurai Executioner. Each story explores a different aspect of old Japanese society and is very meticulously researched.

 

[Vicious]

And then it made me wonder - would there ever be a film of even THAT caliber about the people of Native America who were driven to what is best considered 'endangered society' status

Dances with Wolves comes to mind.

 

[Macam]

I enjoyed The Last Samurai quite a bit despite the ending. It's well done and about as good as big budget Hollywood drama movies get. I think a large part of the reason I enjoyed it is simply because of the supporting actors more than anything, at least the Japanese ones; they did a great, great job and outshone everyone else. Not to mention Hans Zimmer does a fantastic job with the soundtrack.

Twilight Samurai is a good film that took me some time to absorb for some reason. It's definitely a more paced film than what one may expect from the title, but it's very well done. Amazon has it for $18 new (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00065GX0K/?tag=neogaf0e-20) which is cheaper than you'll find in retail stores, if you find it.

 

[bionic77]

One of my favorite movies. I understand why some people couldn't get into it because when you know something of the actual history involved it is very hard to get involved into a movie. I feel that way about most portrayals of American history, but knowing nothing about Japanese history or its culture I could just watch it as a movie.

 

[jenov4]

Great film, it deserved to do better at the box office. And I personally didn't mind Tom Cruise at all in this film.

 

[Willco]

This film would've been in my Top 20, easily.

But unfortunately, it had one of the worst endings ever. The ending ruined it. And I couldn't take it seriously afterwards. What a horrible, horrible ending.

And such promise that one of the best movie moments with...

Spoiler

NINJAS FIGHTING SAMURAI!

I was surprised that it wasn't just Dances with Samurai, but disappointed that Hollywood could ruin a film with that horrible ending.

Fuck you, Tom Cruise.

 

[Phoenix]

What's wrong with the ending, that anyone survived the end battle?

 

[Mama Smurf]

I suspect he didn't like

Spoiler

that the guy who killed this woman's husband ends upw ith her.

Maybe I'm wrong though, that didn't bother me personally.

 

[Rei_Toei]

That, and

Spoiler

Algren should have died with the rest. Another Samurai could have (and would have probably done a better job) delivering to the emperor

.

But besides that, awesome movie . Beautiful scenery, altough a bit heavy on portraying an overly idyllic Japanese rural scenery/society.

 

[Phoenix]

That, and

Spoiler

Algren should have died with the rest. Another Samurai could have (and would have probably done a better job) delivering to the emperor

.

But besides that, awesome movie . Beautiful scenery, altough a bit heavy on portraying an overly idyllic Japanese rural scenery/society.

Spoiler

Nope. Any other samauri would have killed himself in defeat. Really, he is the only one that could have 'survived' the battle and 'lived' afterwards to do anything.

 

[Rei_Toei]

Hmm, well,

Spoiler

you have a point, but maybe one would be captured or something.

And

Spoiler

why do you keep calling them samauri?

 

[belgurdo]

Spoiler

Taka should have knifed Algren's ass when he came back at the end of the movie. Fuck Tom Cruise

 

[Boogie9IGN]

I loved it, but

Spoiler

Algren dying would have made it more dramatic or something. Then again the fact that he returned to the village was kind of nice.

 

[Phoenix]

And

Spoiler

why do you keep calling them samauri?

Spoiler

phonetic spelling of foreign word

 

[Phoenix]

Spoiler

NINJAS FIGHTING SAMURAI!

That was purely an orgasmic experience. I went back to watch just THAT part of the movie

 

[ManaByte]

That was purely an orgasmic experience. I went back to watch just THAT part of the movie

Yeah for the whole movie you're like "Hey this is a pretty good movie so far..." and when that part happens you're like

Spoiler

HOLY FUCKING SHIT NINJAS FIGHTING SAMURAI! HOLY FLAMING NINJAS BATMAN!

 

[Dice]

I loved all the fight scenes because they didn't seem choreographed. The people fighting seemed skilled, but they all had a very raw and desperate feel to them.

And I don't see a problem with the ending...

Spoiler

Nope. Any other samauri would have killed himself in defeat. Really, he is the only one that could have 'survived' the battle and 'lived' afterwards to do anything.

Spoiler

Yeah, and isn't that the point of the whole movie? They teach him how to live with honor and that saves him from his past and restores him to be a decent human being, and he teaches them the resilient tenacity that saves their culture in return for teaching him that. If he died then that would defeat their cause, disprove his lesson to teach them and killed off in him their lesson to pass on to him. And if they didn't die, their lesson of honor wouldn't have truly passed on to him, because it was a lesson of honor even unto death. And not only that, but death by his side because they accepted him as their own not because of blood but on the basis of that honor and character they passed on to him. His going back to the villiage is like the fulfillment of both of these lessons and the overall lesson of the common human condition beyond cultural differences.

Freakin' excellent movie.

 

[norinrad21]

I suspect he didn't like

Spoiler

that the guy who killed this woman's husband ends upw ith her.

Maybe I'm wrong though, that didn't bother me personally.

I guess you didn't like Samurai X Then right?

 

[Mama Smurf]

I'll tell you when I've seen it.

 

[Dan]

I thought it was lame as hell that

Spoiler

Algren lived

. Just atrocious. The movie nosedived hard for me when that happened. I just thought that was an awful happy Hollywood ending that lost everything it had been working towards.

Also, I liked this movie a lot better when it was called Glory. I think the director's done great work, but c'mon, several scenes were ripped straight from his earlier Glory and just transplanted them almost directly into The Last Samurai. Talk about being creatively bankrupt. There were just too many little scenes that were identical.

 

[karasu]

It was a really fun watch, but the ending was full of sentimentality. Every ending was.

Spoiler

Algren living(but he was NOT the Last Samurai) , possibly ending up with the woman who's husband he killed, and the emperor suddenly realizing the error of his ways. All of that was pretty cheesy. Not all Samurai would have committed Seppuku.

 

[Foreign Jackass]

The movie is a good Dances with Wolves clone. Not a "great movie" by any means, but well done. Ken was great, Tom was ok. Story was cool, cinematography was good. Nothin' groundbreaking or anything, and it's all been done before.

Samurai flicks? Kurosawa »»»» All.

 

[karasu]

The movie is a good Dances with Wolves clone. Not a "great movie" by any means, but well done. Ken was great, Tom was ok. Story was cool, cinematography was good. Nothin' groundbreaking or anything, and it's all been done before.

Samurai flicks? Kurosawa »»»» All.

Let's not forget Kihachi Okamoto. Everyone should go get Sword of Doom!

 

[Rei_Toei]

True. Seven Samurai >>>> all. Although I can't precisely explain why I like the movie so much. I know it sounds stupid .

 

[Kabuki Waq]

The Ending with Cruise and the Emperor was REALLY FUCKING CHEESY! :lol

I was laughing at the melodrama there. Otherwise it was an awesome movie

 

[norinrad21]

It was a really fun watch, but the ending was full of sentimentality. Every ending was.

Spoiler

Algren living(but he was NOT the Last Samurai) , possibly ending up with the woman who's husband he killed, and the emperor suddenly realizing the error of his ways. All of that was pretty cheesy. Not all Samurai would have committed Seppuku.

I have never watched a movie where the Samurai didn't commit a

Spoiler

seppuku

.... they all do once they have been found guilty of something or thr wrongfullness of their ways.

The movie was pretty good and was perfectly told through the eyes of the narrator. Tom Cruise didn't

Spoiler

die because he wasn't a god damn samurai, he just happened to have had a changed of heart and had decided to join the samurai to rebel against the emperor

WTF is wrong with that?

 

[jett]

The Last Samurai is an awesome movie, and I didn't have a problem with the ending. There's too much Cruisehating in this forum.

 

[Willco]

The problem with the ending is three fold...

Spoiler

1. The fact that the white guy (who has only had three months of samurai training, yet is magically the greatest samurai ever by the end of the film!) lives is absolutely retarded. What, did he have a bulletproof vest that the other samurai did not? Incredibly, incredibly lame. Everyone dies, he lives. Of all the fucking samurai, these people trained in the art of discipline and war, the white guy lives. What-fucking-ever. He wasn't even a fucking American super soldier, he was a lieutenant.

2. How come Tom Cruise throws a FUCKING sword like 100 feet through that asshole American general guy and kills him, but NOBODY THINKS TO DO THAT TO ASSHOLE JAPANESE TRAIN BARON GUY? Why? BECAUSE THE ENDING IS STUPID.

3. He ends up in the village, happily ever after? Oh it must be good times for everyone else, since all the men are DEAD and he's the only one who lived, not to mention he's banging the wife of the guy he killed in the beginning of the movie.

Worst. Ending. Ever.

I just thought that was an awful happy Hollywood ending that lost everything it had been working towards.

Bingo!

Also, I liked this movie a lot better when it was called Glory.

:lol

The Last Samurai is an awesome movie, and I didn't have a problem with the ending. There's too much Cruisehating in this forum.

My disdain for the ending has nothing to do with Tom Cruise. I think he's a good actor, but that ending was horrible and it didn't matter who was playing the main character. It could've been Denzel or Tom Hanks or anyone, and if the ending was the same, it would still be one of the worst endings ever.

 

[effzee]

cruise is awesome...after mission impossible 2 i havent seen a bad cruise movie.

 

[Dice]

Spoiler

2. How come Tom Cruise throws a FUCKING sword like 100 feet through that asshole American general guy and kills him, but NOBODY THINKS TO DO THAT TO ASSHOLE JAPANESE TRAIN BARON GUY? Why? BECAUSE THE ENDING IS STUPID.

Hmmm.. Ok so I disagree with the other stuff but this is a good point.

 

[Mama Smurf]

Your first point should make you hate a hell of a lot more than just the ending.

 

[Willco]

Your first point should make you hate a hell of a lot more than just the ending.

I was kind of willing to let it slide because they never really had a side-by-side comparison making Cruise look as good as all the samurai. They sorta did it with the

Spoiler

ninja warefare omg!

and I was little peeved that Tom Cruise was able to dispatch them so easily, whereas fuckin' Ken Watanabe struggled. But the fact that we had

Spoiler

SAMURAI vs NINJA!

kind of made me not care as much as I should have.

 

[Lathentar]

Dances with Wolves comes to mind.

And its a better movie.

 

[Willco]

Dances with Wolves is a better movie. And it's not cheap either. Nobody can really walk away from the ending feeling upbeat about the future of the main character or the people he spent time with.

 

[Mama Smurf]

I just figure Tom Cruise's character is a natural, taught by the best. Saves a lot of hassle.

The film had a few humourous moments in too, which was nice as way too many films of this sort think you can't put anything funny in.

 

[karasu]

I have never watched a movie where the Samurai didn't commit a

Spoiler

seppuku

.... they all do once they have been found guilty of something or thr wrongfullness of their ways.

The movie was pretty good and was perfectly told through the eyes of the narrator. Tom Cruise didn't

Spoiler

die because he wasn't a god damn samurai, he just happened to have had a changed of heart and had decided to join the samurai to rebel against the emperor

WTF is wrong with that?

Spoiler

So only Samurai die in battle? That's absurd. To me it would have been great for a character who survived so much hell and so much that disgusted him to die fighting for something that he actually believed in. Living to give a speech that enlightens the emperor where all others have failed, and going to sleep with a woman who you made a widow, is too much.

As far as Seppuku, all samurai didn't believe in it. But in western films they can never stop talking about it. Too much hagakure

 

[Willco]

I just figure Tom Cruise's character is a natural, taught by the best. Saves a lot of hassle.

It is definitely one of those movies where you have to suspend disbelief, but you can only take it too far before it is ridiculous.

The film had a few humourous moments in too, which was nice as way too many films of this sort think you can't put anything funny in.

Having a drama with no laughter is stupid. Life is funny.

I'm with Dan, though. This movie had so much going for it, and it just falls apart at the end. And it really has nothing to do with Tom Cruise, but everything to do with the script and some extremely illogical storypoints.

 

[norinrad21]

Spoiler

So only Samurai die in battle? That's absurd. To me it would have been great for a character who survived so much hell and so much that disgusted him to die fighting for something that he actually believed in. Living to give a speech that enlightens the emperor where all others have failed, and going to sleep with a woman who you made a widow, is too much.

As far as Seppuku, all samurai didn't believe in it. But in western films they can never stop talking about it. Too much hagakure

So in your opinion a man achieving inner Peace is a sin, all men who have committed evil act

deserve to die? This i thread is turning into a Tom Cruise bashfast by the minute

 

[Willco]

deserve to die? This i thread is turning into a Tom Cruise bashfast by the minute

Uh, where?

There's a difference between disliking what happens to Tom Cruise's character and Tom Cruise himself.

I don't see anyone really complaining about Tom Cruise.

 

[Amneziak]

The problem with the ending is three fold...

Spoiler

1. The fact that the white guy (who has only had three months of samurai training, yet is magically the greatest samurai ever by the end of the film!) lives is absolutely retarded. What, did he have a bulletproof vest that the other samurai did not? Incredibly, incredibly lame. Everyone dies, he lives. Of all the fucking samurai, these people trained in the art of discipline and war, the white guy lives. What-fucking-ever. He wasn't even a fucking American super soldier, he was a lieutenant.

2. How come Tom Cruise throws a FUCKING sword like 100 feet through that asshole American general guy and kills him, but NOBODY THINKS TO DO THAT TO ASSHOLE JAPANESE TRAIN BARON GUY? Why? BECAUSE THE ENDING IS STUPID.

3. He ends up in the village, happily ever after? Oh it must be good times for everyone else, since all the men are DEAD and he's the only one who lived, not to mention he's banging the wife of the guy he killed in the beginning of the movie.

My disdain for the ending has nothing to do with Tom Cruise. I think he's a good actor, but that ending was horrible and it didn't matter who was playing the main character. It could've been Denzel or Tom Hanks or anyone, and if the ending was the same, it would still be one of the worst endings ever.

Good points, but...

Spoiler

1. He was already a good fighter, as shown before his capture when he killed Taka's husband. And as I said, the ending didn't thrill me either; but the story was ABOUT him, so if another character survived instead of him, it wouldn't make much sense storytelling-wise.

2. The only reason Algren could even reach Colonel Bagley is because Bagley arrogantly rushes in to meet the Samurai's final charge. Omura was hiding behind the machine guns.

3. Also as I said, at least the narrator says that no one knows what actually happened to him.

I hate having to defend contrivances that bother me too, but these rationalizations keep them from ruining what is otherwise a great movie.

 

[Dan]

:lol

Are you laughing with me or at me for making the comparison to Glory? I kind of figure most people wouldn't see it - especially with the obvious comparison to Dances with Wolves - but having loved Glory for many years, I just saw way too many similarities and parallels with Glory, outside of the romance obviously. Everything from Algren training the Japanese army, Algren's personal issues with his actions to his slow social insertion into the samurai culture and even the concept of the climax is straight from Glory. Entire scenes and dialogue exchanges were all but lifted from Edward Zwick's first war epic.

Between the sampling of Glory to the utter meltdown at the end, this one really disappointed me.

 

[karasu]

So in your opinion a man achieving inner Peace is a sin, all men who have committed evil act

deserve to die? This i thread is turning into a Tom Cruise bashfast by the minute

What? I didn't say that. What do you mean Tom Cruise bashfest? He was fine as an actor. :/

 

[Gorey]

If you haven't already, read Lone Wolf & Cub or Samurai Executioner. Each story explores a different aspect of old Japanese society and is very meticulously researched.

Now we're talking. I've been reading LW+C over the course of the last year, slowly, trying to savor it. Amazing stuff. My only gripe is the format- I wish it was bigger, as my eyesight sorta sucks and the art begs to be appreciated. Oh well.

Oh, and I thought Last Samurai was great. For a hollywood samurai flick, I though it treated the material very respectably, and delivered the goods.

 

[Dan]

Spoiler

1. He was already a good fighter, as shown before his capture when he killed Taka's husband. And as I said, the ending didn't thrill me either; but the story was ABOUT him, so if another character survived instead of him, it wouldn't make much sense storytelling-wise.

But that's half the point. No one needed to survive for the film to make its point, or perhaps the point that should have been made. The whole thing with Algren surviving and then seeing the Emperor again was just a nonsensical and dumbed down way of telling stupid audience members exactly how they were supposed to feel about the movie. It was just lame catering to the lowest common denominator combined with the happy ending for the lead character. I mean, give me a break, did Shaw's death in Glory negate the film's themes? I don't think so. In fact, it made the film much stronger.

*I'm not bothering with spoiler highlights. It's a thread for analysis of the film. If you haven't seen the movie, there's no real reason to be in here unless you're looking to be spoiled.

 

[Willco]

Are you laughing with me or at me for making the comparison to Glory?

No, I'm laughing with you. It's the same director isn't it? Zwick or something? There are definite parallels not just to Glory, but other films as well. If it's done tastefully, as Tarantino does in every film he's ever made, it's fine, but the ending kinda ruined it for me.

 

[Amneziak]

But that's half the point. No one needed to survive for the film to make its point, or perhaps the point that should have been made. The whole thing with Algren surviving and then seeing the Emperor again was just a nonsensical and dumbed down way of telling stupid audience members exactly how they were supposed to feel about the movie. It was just lame catering to the lowest common denominator combined with the happy ending for the lead character. I mean, give me a break, did Shaw's death in Glory negate the film's themes? I don't think so. In fact, it made the film much stronger.

I agree, I'm just trying not to let the ending ruin the rest of the film. He could have died, according to the narrator, just not on the battlefield. And it was Katsumoto's sacrifice, not Algren, that changed the emperor.

 

[Phoenix]

I thought it was lame as hell that

Spoiler

Algren lived

. Just atrocious. The movie nosedived hard for me when that happened. I just thought that was an awful happy Hollywood ending that lost everything it had been working towards.

Also, I liked this movie a lot better when it was called Glory. I think the director's done great work, but c'mon, several scenes were ripped straight from his earlier Glory and just transplanted them almost directly into The Last Samurai. Talk about being creatively bankrupt. There were just too many little scenes that were identical.

I can't disagree with this more. WHile I'm a huge fan of the extremely excellent Glory movie as it is one of the most underrated movies of all time, you'd have to point out 'stolen scenes' for me.

 

[Phoenix]

The problem with the ending is three fold...

Spoiler

1. The fact that the white guy (who has only had three months of samurai training, yet is magically the greatest samurai ever by the end of the film!) lives is absolutely retarded. What, did he have a bulletproof vest that the other samurai did not? Incredibly, incredibly lame. Everyone dies, he lives. Of all the fucking samurai, these people trained in the art of discipline and war, the white guy lives. What-fucking-ever. He wasn't even a fucking American super soldier, he was a lieutenant.

Spoiler

Actually he was a captain and 'billed' as one of America's best. Otherwise why would the Japaneese government be so intently interested in HIM?

Spoiler

2. How come Tom Cruise throws a FUCKING sword like 100 feet through that asshole American general guy and kills him, but NOBODY THINKS TO DO THAT TO ASSHOLE JAPANESE TRAIN BARON GUY? Why? BECAUSE THE ENDING IS STUPID.

Spoiler

Because it would be difficult for them to throw a sword several hundred yards and hit a guy who is up on the bluffs where the cannons are. That would be my guess

Spoiler

3. He ends up in the village, happily ever after? Oh it must be good times for everyone else, since all the men are DEAD and he's the only one who lived, not to mention he's banging the wife of the guy he killed in the beginning of the movie.

Spoiler

This one I will grant you to a certain point. Since I don't completely understand the cultural aspects I don't know how realistic it would be for her to really accept the 'he did his duty, you did yours' thing. Perhaps it would have been better if they didn't show the scene with him coming to the village since it was supposed to be a 'speculative' ending according to the narrator.

 

[Willco]

He was hired as a "war hero".

Just so you know, there's a difference between a war hero and a great soldier. The two are not always, and quite often aren't, the same.

I concur that Tom Cruise's character was a good soldier by the description from early in the film, but - c'mon! - by the end of the film he was practically the Terminator. That whole scene is bullshit and it doesn't make any sense, no matter how you slice it.

And I don't think his

Spoiler

character living

is necessary for the film, at all. I would also be less critical if

Spoiler

he wasn't the ONLY samurai that lived

. The fact that that's the case is a slap in the face to all the damn samurai!

Spoiler

You mean Ken Watanabe, THE KING BADASS SAMURAI of ALL SAMURAI, dies and Whitey McWhite White lives?

I call bullshit!