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Latest in the Nanny State: Taxes on Sugary Drinks!

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http://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/17/business/17soda.html?hpw

Proposed Tax on Sugary Beverages Debated

By WILLIAM NEUMAN
The debate over a tax on sugary soft drinks — billed as a way to fight obesity and provide billions for health care reform — is starting to fizz over.

President Obama has said it is worth considering. The chief executive of Coca-Cola calls the idea outrageous, while skeptics point to political obstacles and question how much of an impact it would really have on consumers.

But a team of prominent doctors, scientists and policy makers says it could be a powerful weapon in efforts to reduce obesity, in the same way that cigarette taxes have helped curb smoking.

The group, which includes the New York City health commissioner, Thomas Farley, and Joseph W. Thompson, Arkansas surgeon general, estimates that a tax of a penny an ounce on sugary beverages would raise $14.9 billion in its first year, which could be spent on health care initiatives. The tax would apply to soft drinks, energy drinks, sports beverages and many juices and iced teas — but not sugar-free diet drinks.

The group’s review of research on the topic, appearing in The New England Journal of Medicine, was released on Wednesday, the same day that Senator Max Baucus, the Montana Democrat, made public his health care reform plan, with an estimated cost of $774 billion over 10 years. The Baucus plan would be paid for by an array of taxes and fees on high-end group insurance plans, drug and medical device makers, and other sources, with no mention of any tax on sugary beverages.

The scientific paper found that a beverage tax might not only raise revenue but have significant health effects, lowering consumption of soda and other sweet drinks enough to lead to a small weight loss and reduced health risks among many Americans.

The study cited research on price elasticity for soft drinks that has shown that for every 10 percent rise in price, consumption declines 8 to 10 percent.

John Sicher, the publisher of Beverage Digest, a trade publication, said that a two-liter bottle of soda sells for about $1.35. At 67.6 ounces, if the full tax was passed on to consumers, that would add 50 percent to the price. A 12-can case, which sells today for about $3.20, could rise by $1.44, a 45 percent increase.

“A one cent per ounce tax would create serious problems and potentially adversely impact sales for the American beverage industry,” Mr. Sicher said.

The proposed tax faces a formidable hurdle in Congress, where several members have voiced strong opposition and few if any have said more than that they would be willing to consider it.

The soft drink industry has adamantly resisted the notion that its products are responsible for a national increase in obesity or that a tax would help curb the problem.

And even a supporter of a beverage tax said it was not clear if it would have a direct effect on the waistlines of Americans.

“I think we should be satisfied that soda taxes would be having a modest effect on consumption but would generate billions of dollars that could be used to mount public health campaigns,” said Michael Jacobson, executive director of the Center for Science in the Public Interest, an advocacy group that favors such a tax.

He said that if the tax was levied on the manufacturers of the sugary drinks they might be able to spread the cost among many of their products, from chips to granola bars to diet sodas, which would keep sugary drink users from feeling the full impact.

Nonetheless, discussion of the tax has the beverage industry on the defensive.

Muhtar Kent, the chief executive of Coca-Cola, was asked about the tax on Monday during an appearance at the Rotary Club of Atlanta and he responded by calling it “outrageous.”

“I have never seen it work where a government tells people what to eat and what to drink,” Mr. Kent said, according to a report by Bloomberg News. “It if worked, the Soviet Union would still be around.”

The industry began to coordinate its response in June when it created an organization called Americans Against Food Taxes.

On its Web site, nofoodtaxes.com, the group calls itself “a coalition of concerned citizens” opposed to “the government’s proposed tax hike on food and beverages,” including soda and juice drinks. Calls to a media contact listed on the site reach the American Beverage Association, an industry organization whose board is made up of top executives from the major soft drink manufacturers.

Americans Against Food Taxes bought a full-page ad last Sunday in The Washington Post. It was fashioned as an open letter to Congress, saying “Don’t tax our groceries.” It has also been running commercials on cable networks, including CNN, MSNBC and Fox News, according to Kevin W. Keane, senior vice president for public affairs at the beverage association.

Mr. Keane said that the association was heading the antitax group and that the beverage industry was paying for its activities.

He took exception to any efforts to single out sugary drinks in the fight against obesity.

“When it comes to losing weight, all calories count, regardless of the food source,” Mr. Keane said. “The bottom line is that the tax isn’t going to make anybody healthier. It’s not going to make a dent in a problem as complex and serious as obesity, and we’re certainly not going to solve the complexities of the health care system with a tax on soda pop.”

Talk of a soda tax is just the latest headache for an industry that has been struggling with flat or declining sales for many products, from sodas to bottled water.

Across the country, many schools have removed soda vending machines saying they should not be plying children with sugary drinks.

Last month, the American Heart Association urged people to reduce their intake of sugary foods and beverages to lower the risk of conditions like obesity and high blood pressure — singling out soft drinks as a prime culprit.

Even President Obama has voiced a cautious openness to the tax.

“I actually think it’s an idea that we should be exploring,” he said, in a recent interview in Men’s Health magazine. “There’s no doubt that our kids drink way too much soda. And every study that’s been done about obesity shows that there is as high a correlation between increased soda consumption and obesity as just about anything else.”

But Mr. Obama acknowledged that there would be significant resistance to such a tax.

Kelly D. Brownell, the lead author of the study and director of the Rudd Center for Food Policy and Obesity at Yale, said in an interview that a penny-an-ounce tax would have an immediate and powerful impact on the nation’s elevated obesity rate.

He said that a tax was justified in part because conditions like obesity and diabetes are often treated with public funds through programs like Medicaid and Medicare. Revenue from the tax could help pay for such care.

Acknowledging how difficult it would be to get a tax through Congress, he said state or local governments could take the first step.

That would follow tobacco, which has been heavily taxed by states in an effort to reduce smoking and defray the costs of smoking-related illnesses.

Representative Bill Pascrell Jr., a Democrat from northern New Jersey, who supports a soda tax said that House lawmakers had considered including it as part of their health reform bill but decided it was too divisive. “It didn’t look like we had the votes,” he said.


Honestly, i'm pretty liberal, but this just sounds like a poor person tax to me. Sure, you can say the burden on the health system obesity causes makes it worth it, but this just seems too "literal" of a nanny state behavior. Also, wtf at taxing sports drinks.
 

itxaka

Defeatist
They talked about this in Spain too, a tax to High Calory products in order to reduce obesity.

But in the end, as with alcohol and cigars, people that buy them before are gonna keep buying them so in the end the only good thing it does is engross the government pockets with more money. :/
 
As a former smoker I fully support this. Every non smoker bitched and moaned that we increased their health insurance premiums and were a burden on hospitals, etc. Fuck that, there are way more fat fucks drinking gallons of soda a day that have way more health problems.

Nothing disturbs me more than seeing a mother with her shopping car brimming with cases of soda toting behind her a brood of chubby little kids that look like their faces are swelling shut with lard.
 

Veidt

Blasphemer who refuses to accept bagged milk as his personal savior
Tax Bacon and junkie fast food in general, too.
 

Hilbert

Deep into his 30th decade
In Washington state soda has sales tax, where juice does not. Not really the same, but I had a guy throw a fit at my register because he was being charged tax on his can of red bull.
 

TomServo

Junior Member
Lobbyists (food industry, citrus, corn, etc) will bury this. Should be an interesting wake-up call to Obama, similar to what happened to Clinton early in his presidency.
 
udivision said:
Why stop there?

Figure out a list of healthy food and tax everything else.

Because numerous studies have found that soda and other high sugar (HFC) drinks are a leading cause of obesity in many children and adults. You don't sit at your desk/couch and sip on a giant cup of bacon all day.
 
I support this, especially for sugary sodas and other garbage drinks/juices that aren't much more than sugar-laden water. These products need to be less competitive with healthier alternatives and they really are providing most people who drink them with nothing more than empty calories in their diets.

That being said, corn subsidies from the government already provide a means of making these products artificially inexpensive. I love how the CEO of Coca-Cola decries this idea as outrageous when his company's syrups are loaded to the brim with with subsidized HFCS.
 

captive

Joe Six-Pack: posting for the common man
Fuck that. I'll just stop drinking soda.
I am not fat, nor overweight, piss off with your curb obesity crap.
Parents should control their kids obesity not the government.
 

EYEL1NER

Member
gutterboy44 said:
As a former smoker I fully support this. Every non smoker bitched and moaned that we increased their health insurance premiums and were a burden on hospitals, etc. Fuck that, there are way more fat fucks drinking gallons of soda a day that have way more health problems.
As a current smoker, this ^.
 

scorcho

testicles on a cold fall morning
Inflammable Slinky said:
Honestly, i'm pretty liberal, but this just sounds like a poor person tax to me. Sure, you can say the burden on the health system obesity causes makes it worth it, but this just seems too "literal" of a nanny state behavior. Also, wtf at taxing sports drinks.
The reason these drinks are cheap to begin with is due to government subsidies to corn farmers, who then sell their wares lower than the cost of production to meat/food producers. That in turn drives down costs for certain food items that in turn influences the way we eat.

Of course it's too much common sense (and lobbying $$) to end that practice, so this is the roundabout way of doing much the same.
 

Somnid

Member
They should just have yearly weigh-ins that tax you for weighing over the legal limit. Especially if you're doing universal health care I'd rather people start out somewhat healthy. People should be punished on the basis of lack of control, not choice of foods. I enjoy a soda every now and then, but I'm also not sucking down double gulps twice a day so I'm still in quite good health.
 
Drensch said:
Just take the subsidy off corn syrup, that's what I'd prefer.
Came here to post this.

Rather than tax Coke and give that money right back to the people turning unhealthy soda into poison, tax the people making poison.
 

X26

Banned
Terrible, terrible, idea.

People are responsible for their own consumption, taxing this is just ridiculous.
 

udivision

Member
Somnid said:
They should just have yearly weigh-ins that tax you for weighing over the legal limit. Especially if you're doing universal health care I'd rather people start out somewhat healthy. People should be punished on the basis of lack of control, not choice of foods. I enjoy a soda every now and then, but I'm also not sucking down double gulps twice a day so I'm still in quite good health.

You'd think being unhealthy was punishment enough for being unhealthy but that's so old fashioned.
 

NewLib

Banned
Lazy vs Crazy said:
Came here to post this.

Rather than tax Coke and give that money right back to the people turning unhealthy soda into poison, tax the people making poison.

Seriously, maybe this would force Coke to change its ingredients from corn syrup to sugar and everyone is happy.
 
I think we should have Ricky Gervais's idea at our grocery stores. All the healthy food is readily available, however, the junk food is past a series of progressively smaller and smaller cattle gates. So if you are a fat fuck, you can't get through them and reach the donuts and soda.

Entropia said:
We tax cigarettes, we should tax this. I'm for it.
We also tax booze
 

Somnid

Member
udivision said:
You'd think being unhealthy was punishment enough for being unhealthy but that's so old fashioned.

People don't even care until it's actually a problem, or at least for most it's not enough of a problem to bother changing. It doesn't matter though because the over-weight are the majority, they'll vote me down every time.
 

Struct09

Member
Drensch said:
Just take the subsidy off corn syrup, that's what I'd prefer.

Except that wouldn't change anything other than the way your drink tastes.

Not to imply that a tax on sugary drinks would change anything anyway.
 

Hilbert

Deep into his 30th decade
Liter soda is America's best chance to get people into the metric system! We need to get as many people drinking soda as possible.


Actually I don't think I really have an opinion on a soda tax.
 
Struct09 said:
Except that wouldn't change anything other than the way your drink tastes.

Not to imply that a tax on sugary drinks would change anything anyway.

Without the subsidy HFC prices would increase and so would the price of soda. Natural sugar would then have a more competitive price.
 
Don't _even_ pretend this is a public health measure. It's all about the Benjamins. Fuck any politician who goes to bat for this.

gutterboy44 said:
Without the subsidy HFC prices would increase and so would the price of soda. Natural sugar would then have a more competitive price.

Yep. Right now we're forced to pay hidden costs on HFCS (along with all of the other big farm subsidies). No such thing as a free lunch and all of that.

edit: And I add to this that the only soft drinks I consume are diet ginger ale and caffeine free diet Dr. Pepper.
 

Leunam

Member
m4tu1.jpg


Question:

OP, what else do you think the government has done that makes it a nanny state?
 
How in god's name can anyone drink soda everyday is beyond me. I'm all in favor of this new tax. Just drink water FFS or limit the amount of soda an individual or family drinks per week.
 

Struct09

Member
gutterboy44 said:
Without the subsidy HFC prices would increase and so would the price of soda. Natural sugar would then have a more competitive price.

Yeah, but the government wouldn't be making extra money from either the HFCS or cane sugar sodas in that case. I suppose they wouldn't be losing money from the subsidy though.
 
Beyond stupid. If they would just say hey we are thinking of taxing this shit to get more tax dollars ok, but to claim that they will do it as a way to help fight obesity/health issues is a joke. Its not calories that make some one a fat ass with health problems its way to much and no activity that makes them that way. Theres no health risks involved, its not like smoking or alcohol. (and they suggest no tax on diet soda's that have who knows what as a sugar replacement) I'd rather they tax an obese person for being obese over taxing whatever i decide to put in my body.
 

J-Rod

Member
Add an extra tax on video games. A 10% tax may lead to a 5-8% decrease in sales. It is a non-physical activity that contributes to obesity yet many children and adults participate in it and people can not be trusted with their own health. Use the tax revenue to pay the healthcare cost for ex-video game employees who were laid off since the industry as a whole has taken a 5-8% hit in sales and can not support the level of expenses it had before.

Its got a few kinks, but I think we can make it work.
 

Owensboro

Member
udivision said:
Even gatorade? :(

Drinking Gatorade when not exercising / expending the energy is just as bad as drinking a soda. I'd wager the majority of people drinking it aren't exercising.
 

captive

Joe Six-Pack: posting for the common man
Jason's Ultimatum said:
How in god's name can anyone drink soda everyday is beyond me. I'm all in favor of this new tax. Just drink water FFS or limit the amount of soda an individual or family drinks per week.
How bout we also limit how much time on the internet someone can be in a week? Or how bout how much bandwidth they can consume? And how much TV? Music? Movies?
Why not go even further, mandate that everyone should live within 5 miles of their job, that sure as shit would get rid of rush hour, pollution and traffic.
Fuck it lets just make the world one giant utopia, those have never been tried before.
 

SmokyDave

Member
gutterboy44 said:
As a former smoker I fully support this. Every non smoker bitched and moaned that we increased their health insurance premiums and were a burden on hospitals, etc. Fuck that, there are way more fat fucks drinking gallons of soda a day that have way more health problems.

Amen. As a smoker myself I'd just like to say to fatties all over "I fucking warned you".
 

jmdajr

Member
I'm 100% ok with it. TAX THE SHIT OUT OF IT!

captive said:
Fuck that. I'll just stop drinking soda.
I am not fat, nor overweight, piss off with your curb obesity crap.
Parents should control their kids obesity not the government.

But they don't. Why not profit off their ignorance? They are already costing us billions in medical care for their unhealthy ways.
 
captive said:
How bout we also limit how much time on the internet someone can be in a week? Or how bout how much bandwidth they can consume? And how much TV? Music? Movies?
Why not go even further, mandate that everyone should live within 5 miles of their job, that sure as shit would get rid of rush hour, pollution and traffic.
Fuck it lets just make the world one giant utopia, those have never been tried before.

False equivalency.
 
X26 said:
Terrible, terrible, idea.

People are responsible for their own consumption, taxing this is just ridiculous.

And thus people will still be responsible for their own consumption. If they don't want to pay the tax, they stop drinking sugary drinks.

This is a good thing.
 

scorcho

testicles on a cold fall morning
Struct09 said:
Yeah, but the government wouldn't be making extra money from either the HFCS or cane sugar sodas in that case.
The point isn't to make money, it's to change habits. And if revenue was the mitigating factor we'd save much more by retooling the farm bill than through this tax.
 
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