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[tjohn86]

Which, you know, isn't the government's job.

The government does a lot of things that are not its job. That will not going to change. Get over it.

I am for sin taxes on soda and fast food. America is getting fucking disgusting fat.

 

[Rookje]

Yea, he was being too simplistic. He should of said.

1. Eat clean.
2. Eat at your recommended caloric daily value. (http://www.freedieting.com/tools/calorie_calculator.htm)
3. Eat within a 40% protein/40% carb/20% fat macro.

Then, it really doesn't matter exactly what you're eating. I eat fast food almost daily, and I'm on a cutting diet (El Pollo Loco, I just get chicken and take the skin off the meat. Cheaper for me than grilling my own)

 

[Brannon]

Because numerous studies have found that soda and other high sugar (HFC) drinks are a leading cause of obesity in many children and adults. You don't sit at your desk/couch and sip on a giant cup of bacon all day.

...

...


...









!

I have ideas!

"Are you longing for BACON? Do you find it inconvenient that you can't have the great taste of bacon in your mouth when you're drinking beer at the same time? Well have we got a product for YOU!

Introducing BACONBEER! Yes, BACONBEER!!!! We take the finest female hogs and feed them hops and barley and make them drink beer. Then in a secret process involving yeast infections and cotton swabs, we create the necessary microbes to make the yeast needed to create BACONBEER! Mixed with pasteurized hogsweat and ham juice, with a slice of pickled BACON in the bottle, it is truly a beverage that will slaughter men and service women the world over! By Crom it's BACONBEER!!

Because REAL men take it all the way to the BACON."


















This could totally work in Afghanistan.

 

[scorcho]

How can they be any less competitive ? the only healthy alternative is damn near free in our society its called water. Any other drink is loaded with useless sugar that is no good for the body and leads to health issues in excess and inactivity. Milk,tea,juices,and sodas.

I think he's talking beyond soda to all products that are subsidized by corn-derived products (including meat, fast food, junk food, etc.)

Precisely. I'm all for crazy, progressive taxes, and single-payers and whatnot, but I am not in favor of government trying to influence my habits like this. If I want to get fat and die, so be it..

Valid point, but as posters here have repeatedly stressed, the gov't already influences the food that we eat through the Farm Bill. This is a roundabout way of countering that.

 

[turnbuckle]

yeah thats really doesnt make much sense they go hand in hand if you are going to increase your calories then you increase calories burned to balance out. Obviously if you are gaining weight then you need to burn more calories if you are going to continue eating the same amount of calories a day. If not then decrease the amount of calories. Its the same with the fast food shit vs the $7.00 grilled chicken and baked potato. Just get a damn hamburger and water and walk away. calories are calories.

That would be good. Taxing sugary beverages will make this more likely to occur.
As for what you were saying before, I don't understand the point you're trying to make. Obviously if you are going to increase calorie intake then you'll need to burn more calories to offset that. The problem is the buying decision isn't based on calories for many people but rather what tastes the best and/or is the cheapest. While neither reasoning is inherently bad, it just so turns out that what tends to taste the best and is the cheapest usually is also by far the unhealthiest.

It's not like they're calling for a ban on this stuff. But there is absolutely a link between health problems and obesity, and as has been shown obesity occurs more through increased consumption of the types of things that are being considered for this tax than through people just getting lazier. The government shouldn't tell people to behave differently, but putting a tax will help nudge them in the healthier direction while offsetting the cost to society that comes from obesity.

 

[captive]

Oh, I don't think it will fix it. But it can't hurt can it? And it might even help a little bit.



I think that in many cases the parents are complete failures, and the result of their failure--children that grow up into drains on the government and society--become the government's (and society in general, we the people and all that) responsibility. Sure, it would be great if crappy parents could pay for the prison bills and medical bills and whatnot their spawn incur, but they can't, so I, and other tax payers, end up paying for it. So yeah, when parents fail the government, as the strong arm of society, steps in.

so how bout instead of being reactionary, being proactive?
Unless you have awesome parents. No one teaches you how to be a parent, just like no one teaches you how to do your taxes or how to manage your money responsibly. Or the pitfalls of credit which got us in this mess.

 

[Flo_Evans]

What people don't realize is that this hurts the lower class hard. I used to not have a job and live with my less-than-middle-class family, and buying processed food, soda, fast food etc is cheaper and easier than cooking healthy meals. Especially if both parents are working. You also can't "go to the gym" when you're poor either.

Instead, I'd try to fix what they feed kids in school (that shit is shameful) and try to lower prices/taxes on healthy food.

And extra taxes on cigarettes/alcohol don't? :lol

I have to disagree that eating healthy is that much more expensive than fast food.

Having cut soda and fast food and only eating fish, chicken fruit and veggies I have saved a TON of money.

 

[beastmaster]

Eat 2500 calories of pure lard a day and let me know how that goes for you.

oh i apologize clearly i didnt think anyone would be stupid enough to think that meant eat 2500 calories and you will be fine. Let me clearify so you dont do this tomorrow jackass.

Obviously if you got your calories from nothing but a pure fat source lard in your case that isnt going to go to well for your body because you missed out on vitamins, proteins,and the carbs you need. but if you did do that and managed to do what ever your daily activities normally included to maintain your current body weight. then yes i doubt you'd gain much weight.

what i was saying is the protein fat and carbs from the burgers are the same as from the baked potato and grilled chicken only difference being that one usually has alot more calories than the other per serving.

 

[turnbuckle]

oh come on, you cant seriously believe this? Taxing soda is going to fix the fact poor people get medical care without health insurance.

Not directly, but yes. Especially if a strong public option that subsidizes the cost of insurance for those in poverty. It would decrease the occurrence of obesity related health problems while providing tax revenue of which some part would likely go into covering those subsidies.

 

[jmdajr]

oh i apologize clearly i didnt think anyone would be stupid enough to think that meant eat 2500 calories and you will be fine. Let me clearify so you dont do this tomorrow jackass.

Obviously if you got your calories from nothing but a pure fat source lard in your case that isnt going to go to well for your body because you missed out on vitamins, proteins,and the carbs you need. but if you did do that and managed to do what ever your daily activities normally included to maintain your current body weight. then yes i doubt you'd gain much weight.

what i was saying is the protein fat and carbs from the burgers are the same as from the baked potato and grilled chicken only difference being that one usually has alot more calories than the other per serving.

You apologize and then call me a jackass :lol

 

[ToxicAdam]

You would have to tax it so high (like 200%) for it to affect people's buying habits. A 10-30 percent tax wouldn't even do a thing.


This will probably happen in our lifetime, but it's a dumb way to attack obsesity. We are obese because we work more than ever and the cost disparity between eating out/shopping at home is relatively nil (unless you buy all generic canned food or are a meticulous planner). The portions of food we get at restaurants are tremendous and as cheap as ever.

Couple that with people creating climate-controlled palaces that they have no reason to leave and more sedentary activities (tv/internet/video games) replacing hobbies, it's easy to see what is really going on.

 

[Boonoo]

so how bout instead of being reactionary, being proactive?
Unless you have awesome parents. No one teaches you how to be a parent, just like no one teaches you how to do your taxes or how to manage your money responsibly. Or the pitfalls of credit which got us in this mess.

So you're saying we should better educate citizens on standard life lessons--diet, money management, parenting, etc etc? I think that's a good idea. I'm not sure how it would be implemented, though.

I have to disagree that eating healthy is that much more expensive than fast food.

Having cut soda and fast food and only eating fish, chicken fruit and veggies I have saved a TON of money.

I think the real trouble with eating healthy is that it takes so much more time to prepare. A lot of people, especially the working poor simply don't have the time to shop and prepare healthy food.

 

[captive]

This will probably happen in our lifetime, but it's a dumb way to attack obsesity. We are obese because we work more than ever and the cost disparity between eating out/shopping at home is relatively nil (unless you buy all generic canned food or are a meticulous planner). The portions of food we get at restaurants are tremendous and as cheap as ever.

Absolutely not true. Eating out is far more experience than cooking you're own food.
I go to the store and get a 4 pack of chicken thighs for somewhere around 2 dollars. And veggies. Buy/make my own bbq sauce, cook on my grill and I have two meals for less than 5 dollars.
Or buy a steak on sale, cut it in half and thats two meals. As long as you dont eat like a pig you can eat for substantially less than going out.

So you're saying we should better educate citizens on standard life lessons--diet, money management, parenting, etc etc? I think that's a good idea. I'm not sure how it would be implemented, though.

Absolutely. I could get behind something like that, instead of just taxing everything that may be harmful to your health.

 

[Evlar]

You would have to tax it so high (like 200%) for it to affect people's buying habits. A 10-30 percent tax wouldn't even do a thing.


This will probably happen in our lifetime, but it's a dumb way to attack obsesity. We are obese because we work more than ever and the cost disparity between eating out/shopping at home is relatively nil (unless you buy all generic canned food or are a meticulous planner). The portions of food we get at restaurants are tremendous and as cheap as ever.

Couple that with people creating climate-controlled palaces that they have no reason to leave and more sedentary activities (tv/internet/video games) replacing hobbies, it's easy to see what is really going on.

What? Maybe the restaurants where you live are really damn cheap or groceries are outrageously expensive, but I can prepare home made meals of much higher quality than your average fast food or sit-down chain restaurant at home for much, much cheaper.

Two nights ago I prepared sauted chicken breasts with lemon butter sauce, rice, and peas for two for less than five dollars total. It would cost as much for a single McNuggets meal.

 

[Steve Youngblood]

You would have to tax it so high (like 200%) for it to affect people's buying habits. A 10-30 percent tax wouldn't even do a thing.

Hmm... well, to an extent I agree. However, I think it (and by 'it' I mean sin taxes in general and not necessarily this tax) on two groups in particular:

1. Those who were looking to cut the habit already.
2. Those who have been through several tax increases already (long-time smokers and drinkers have been through this).

But yeah, for the most part these things I don't think have the impact that proponents really desire. They cheer, the people who habitually use the product whine, but there's no grand shift in usage.

It DOES however lead to increased revenue for the state. And as a left-leaning moderate, I'm okay with that as it's mostly a win-win. And I say this as someone who enjoys soft drinks, beer, and has been an on-again off-again smoker for years.

 

[SapientWolf]

They better not touch fruit juice.

 

[beastmaster]

You apologize and then call me a jackass :lol

haha, yeah man come on , i knew when i posted that that someone would take that as being asinine about it and say oh let me go eat donuts all day. i should have clearified what i meant was the source of your calories doesnt matter fast food or health food store as long as you are getting your calories for the day and doing enough activities to maintain that amount.

 

[ahoyhoy]

Why don't we just tax fat people instead of punishing everyone?

 

[jmdajr]

haha, yeah man come on , i knew when i posted that that someone would take that as being asinine about it and say oh let me go eat donuts all day. i should have clearified what i meant was the source of your calories doesnt matter fast food or health food store as long as you are getting your calories for the day and doing enough activities to maintain that amount.

Ok I hear ya. Sorry for assuming you were insane.

 

[Flo_Evans]

So you're saying we should better educate citizens on standard life lessons--diet, money management, parenting, etc etc? I think that's a good idea. I'm not sure how it would be implemented, though.



I think the real trouble with eating healthy is that it takes so much more time to prepare. A lot of people, especially the working poor simply don't have the time to shop and prepare healthy food.

It really doesn't though... it takes less time to pop a piece of chicken in the oven and steam up some veggies then it does to drive to McDonalds and wait in line. Fruit is as easy to eat as a bag of chips. It's just ignorance and laziness that perpetuates this.

 

[SapientWolf]

Subsidizing healthy food and making sure that people in poor communities have access to it would be far more effective. If there is fast food within walking distance but no grocery store with healthy food then that is a huge problem. They could even offer new parents free cooking and nutrition courses. Your parents have a huge effect on how you eat, even when you move out.

 

[beastmaster]

i say to the most degree it comes down to what your parents are teaching you to eat and the way they do that is by what they provide for you to eat. if they are giving kids an abundance of calories, alot more than needed and not showing a active life style then that is what the child learns to accept as correct and then they continue to eat and live that way and do the same for there child its a circle that doesnt end.

but the main thing is that people dont realize how much calories they should be eating in a day and how much calories they really are eating in a day and or where those calories are comming from.

 

[Jasconius]

I would definitely stop drinking so much soda if this tax went through... The only reason I drink so much is that I hate water and soda is so cheap. Although, if they don't tax diet drinks I would probably just switch over to that full time and they're probably even worse for you. ^^;

 

[beastmaster]

I would definitely stop drinking so much soda if this tax went through... The only reason I drink so much is that I hate water and soda is so cheap. Although, if they don't tax diet drinks I would probably just switch over to that full time and they're probably even worse for you. ^^;

yeah the only problem with this is i'd much rather some one drink corn sugar than drink fake sugar.

 

[Jason's Ultimatum]

Thank you for proving my point. Parent's dont know how to prepare healthy meals for their children, but sure lets blame it on soda and tax it that will fix the problem.
If you take in more calories than you burn in a day your going to gain weight. So, in this study if they take in more calories but didn't increase their exercise proportionally then of course it shows that they gained weight.

Proved what point?

He added that in order to return to the average weights of the 70s, children would have to reduce their daily energy intake by about 350 calories, equivalent to a can of soda

The majority of children drink soda everyday. Cutting out soda alone would return to the average weight back to 70s level.

 

[mikekennyb]

A little heavy on the social engineering. I am more for a higher fuel (gasoline) tax than a tax on sugary drinks. A higher gas tax would help the environment, decrease our dependence on possibly unreliable energy sources, and could even encourage people to exercise (walk or bike) more. But that is not politically palpable. And of course unions would scream and cry about it for hurting Detroit.

Taking the logic behind a tax on sugary drinks and applying it to other ideas, and I don't like the outcome. How about subsidies to buy sports equipment? Or a sliding tax on foods according to saturated fat content?

At the end of the day, a 5 cent tax for example, on a soda is not a big deal (we already have the beverage withholding fee here in California, which essentially functions as a tax unless you collect all of your cans and take them to a recycling facility to exchange them for a few bucks) but I'd rather choose to drink water out of my own accord, not because I feel like the government is deciding for me.

 

[Brannon]

They better not touch fruit juice.

That liquid candy will be the first to go!

But seriously, the prices on soda in the US are insanely cheap. a 20oz soda will cost $1.39, but with the alternating sales battles between Pepsi and Coke (and Southeast Atlantic Beverage whenever they get froggy), you can always get a 2-Liter for $1.25 or $1.15.

Let's not even get into the store brand sodas that breach below $1.00 or less, and that's not including weekly sales events (65 cent 2-Liters oh shi...).

EDIT: With all that said, and back on topic, this could be better left to each state, but even then this tax is going to have a hell of a battle if it tries to touch Georgia.

 

[LosDaddie]

Nay

 

[ToxicAdam]

What? Maybe the restaurants where you live are really damn cheap or groceries are outrageously expensive, but I can prepare home made meals of much higher quality than your average fast food or sit-down chain restaurant at home for much, much cheaper.
.

If I had the urge to eat your meal tonight, the cost of a 1.25 pounds of chicken breast is 5 bucks. Box of rice, 2 bucks. Seasoning salt/sauce 3 bucks. Can of name brand peas is a 1.50.

So, if I went to the store tonight to make that meal it would cost me well over 10 dollars. It would take me 30 minutes to buy at the store, then another 30 minutes to prepare, cook and serve. Then of course there is cleanup afterwords.

Granted, many of those things I can use again in the future. But the initial out-of-pocket to make one specific meal is very relative to eating out. Then when you factor in the additional time it takes, it is easy to see why so many people choose to eat out more than ever.

 

[ToxicAdam]

Children drink soda EVERYDAY. Cutting out soda everyday alone would return to the average weight back in the 70s.

A can of soda is only 170 calories. Also, the average boy drinks about 2 cans a day and the average girl only 1. The mean for all children is 12 ounces.

 

[SapientWolf]

If I had the urge to eat your meal tonight, the cost of a 1.25 pounds of chicken breast is 5 bucks. Box of rice, 2 bucks. Seasoning salt/sauce 3 bucks. Can of name brand peas is a 1.50.

So, if I went to the store tonight to make that meal it would cost me well over 10 dollars. It would take me 30 minutes to buy at the store, then another 30 minutes to prepare, cook and serve. Then of course there is cleanup afterwords.

Granted, many of those things I can use again in the future. But the initial out-of-pocket to make one specific meal is very relative to eating out. Then when you factor in the additional time it takes, it is easy to see why so many people choose to eat out more than ever.

Use chicken thighs instead. They're like 75c a pound. 2 dollars worth of rice should last you all week. Fresh peas aren't very expensive either (2 dollars a pound). Don't be afraid to go to a farmer's market or international store. Fresh food is much cheaper there.

Also, most cooks already have all the spices they need. You usually don't need to go out and buy spices for every meal.

 

[Jason's Ultimatum]

A can of soda is only 170 calories. Also, the average boy drinks about 2 cans a day and the average girl only 1.

You do realize sugar adds MORE calories, right?

 

[ahoyhoy]

A can of soda is only 170 calories. Also, the average boy drinks about 2 cans a day and the average girl only 1. The mean for all children is 12 ounces.

Who the hell gives their child 2 sodas a day?

 

[ToxicAdam]

sugar adds calories.

I don't really follow. I'm just going by the label.

Who the hell gives their child 2 sodas a day?

Here's a real jaw dropper:

39% of preschool children drink soda (O'Connor, Yang, & Nicklas, 2006).

WTF?!?!

 

[titiklabingapat]

I actually think this is a good idea. There are different kinds of calories, not all calories are the same. Not surprisingly, many of the cheap ones are also the most harmful.

The taxes will offset whatever hidden public health hazard they are causing down the line.

I know its your choice but those that actually do make the right ones are very few and far between. Most people just gobble soda down like it's water.

 

[captive]

Proved what point?

That parents are at fault for obese kids, not soda.

The majority of children drink soda everyday. Cutting out soda alone would return to the average weight back to 70s level.

prove it. edit, 39%. 40% is not a majority.

Or if they exercise that much more, they could enjoy their soda.
Or if their parents cut it out or changed something else in their diet it wouldn't be a problem.

 

[Macho Madness]

I loves me my soda, but depending on how much it's taxed, i might quit.

 

[SapientWolf]

I think soda is being scapegoated when the real problem is too many calories and too little physical activity. Juice and candy can be just as harmful in that regard. Even fresh fruit can be a problem if you eat too much and don't exercise.

I don't think kids need all that caffeine though.

 

[Jason's Ultimatum]

I don't really follow. I'm just going by the label.

How the hell do you not follow? Here's a clue:

Each teaspoon of sugar adds to 15 calories.

 

[hulot]

What people don't realize is that this hurts the lower class hard. I used to not have a job and live with my less-than-middle-class family, and buying processed food, soda, fast food etc is cheaper and easier than cooking healthy meals. Especially if both parents are working. You also can't "go to the gym" when you're poor either.

Instead, I'd try to fix what they feed kids in school (that shit is shameful) and try to lower prices/taxes on healthy food.

Problem here is education as well. A quick and healthy 8 serving meal can definitely be had for much cheaper than it would be for 8 trips to the local fast food joint. If people just want to compare restaurant prices, sure, healthy food is usually more expensive, but in the end, cooking for yourself and your family will always be the cheapest option and at times fastest considering the travel time daily compared to cooking once a week.

 

[KingGraham]

Yikes...I hadn't even tasted soda, or had fast food until I was almost out of elementary school. But I was raised by an ex-hippy vegetarian.

I am 100% in favor of this tax. Unless we can just kill grain subsidies. But I'm sure that'll never happen. So just tax soda 200% or so. Poor people will save money by being priced out of the soda market. They'll have to resort to water, the most free and healthy drink there is.

Soda will become a delicacy enjoyed only by the rich and powerful, so they'll become morbidly obese and die off sooner. This is a WIN/WIN for America!

 

[MelloBoy]

I think he's talking beyond soda to all products that are subsidized by corn-derived products (including meat, )

I thought animals (atleast cows?) were fed remnants of already processed carcasses nowadays in the US?

 

[ToxicAdam]

How the hell do you not follow? Here's a clue:

Each teaspoon of sugar adds to 15 calories.

So, a can of soda has more than 170 calories?


You said that cutting out soda alone would bring back children in line with their 70's counterparts. Each child drinks about 1 can a day. So, that can of soda would need to be around 350 calories for that to be a factual statement.

 

[Jason's Ultimatum]

That parents are at fault for obese kids, not soda.



prove it. edit, 39%. 40% is not a majority.

Or if they exercise that much more, they could enjoy their soda.
Or if their parents cut it out or changed something else in their diet it wouldn't be a problem.

The article I found says otherwise, but it doesn't matter what the percentage is. Fact is, soda is causing children and adults to become obese.

 

[udivision]

Soda will become a delicacy enjoyed only by the rich and powerful, so they'll become morbidly obese and die off sooner. This is a WIN/WIN for America!

:lol

 

[Jason's Ultimatum]

So, a can of soda has more than 170 calories?


You said that cutting out soda alone would bring back children in line with their 70's counterparts. Each child drinks about 1 can a day. So, that can of soda would need to be around 350 calories for that to be a factual statement.

That's about 255 calories from sugar alone. Add that on top of the 170 calories.

 

[captive]

So, a can of soda has more than 170 calories?


You said that cutting out soda alone would bring back children in line with their 70's counterparts. Each child drinks about 1 can a day. So, that can of soda would need to be around 350 calories for that to be a factual statement.

No a 12oz can of soda has 120-180 calories. Jason is just hellbent on taxing the soda, like soda kicked his dog.
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sour...d86gbse0mmrZ-ceEA&sig2=DKEiBZEmc1rr-2zM5adI-A
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=1005102800042
http://www.fitnessforweightloss.com/how-many-calories-are-in-regular-soda/

And no, the fact is, parents feeding their children incorrectly and letting them drink tons of soda without equivalent exercise is causing obesity.
And the fact that schools are canceling PE because little johnny got hurt and the school got sued. But sure, lets blame it on a relatively harmless drink.

 

[Jason's Ultimatum]

No a 12oz can of soda has 120-180 calories. Jason is just hellbent on taxing the soda, like soda kicked his dog.
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sour...d86gbse0mmrZ-ceEA&sig2=DKEiBZEmc1rr-2zM5adI-A
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=1005102800042
http://www.fitnessforweightloss.com/how-many-calories-are-in-regular-soda/

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10697344/from/RSS/

15 calories per teaspoon/17 teaspoons of sugar in a 20oz can

That equals to 255 empty calories. Add that to the can of soda, 140 calories, and that's 395 calories.

Seriously, just give it up Captive. :lol

EDIT-How much is in a 20 ounce can? 240 something calories? :lol

 

[captive]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10697344/from/RSS/

15 calories per teaspoon/17 teaspoons of sugar in a 20oz can

That equals to 255 empty calories. Add that to the can of soda, 140 calories, and that's 395 calories.

Seriously, just give it up Captive. :lol

EDIT-How much is in a 20 ounce can? 240 something calories? :lol

Give what up. Your the one hellbent to tax something.
You have yet to acknowledge the fact that THIS IS A PARENTING PROBLEM not a government problem. You have yet to respond anything I have said with regards to excercise. Or the fact that if you take in more calories you need to exercise more to burn more calories.
You only post about how many calories in a can of coke, great. Or that the study you found disagrees with the study someone else found that said 40% of kids drink soda.

Its funny though that you some how think your winning this argument.

 

[Flo_Evans]

I thought animals (atleast cows?) were fed remnants of already processed carcasses nowadays in the US?

wut? Cows are herbivores... They are mostly feed corn in the US. Good steak is grass feed.