Launching a Kickstarter campaign on an E3 press conference
- Thread starter Salsa
- Start date
Catatafish
Banned
The whole point of a kickstarter campaign is to fund a game in order for a developer to make it. You do not fund a multi billion corporation to money hate console exclusivity.
So every Kickstarter should be available for every platform?
It's pretty gross that a company the size of Sony chooses their E3 keynote to beg fans for an interest-free loan to work on a game that won't see the light of day or 3 years.
Do your market research and make the game if the interest is there. Getting desperate fans to empty their wallets now is a shitty precedent.
Do your market research and make the game if the interest is there. Getting desperate fans to empty their wallets now is a shitty precedent.
Nope, this game has a 2 million dollar budget, and sony are arrogant pricks that will snatch it as console exclusive without them even putting a damn cent
D
Deleted member 125677
Unconfirmed Member
I think you have misunderstood the rule. As I read the policy, they don't want threads like "TLG LOOKS LIKE GARBAGE YO" or "THE LAST GUARDIAN TRAILER MADE ME COME ON MY KEYBOARD", in other words: poorly thought out reflect reaction threads.
This thread is an invitation to participate in a discussion of general issues - i.e. 1) launching a Kickstarter campaign on a platformholder's conference at E3 and 2) Kickstarter campaigns and transparency in general - both issues exemplified by the case of the reveal of Shenmue III.
I approve this move.
Sony may have just been looking for a way to "partner" or promote Kickstarter since it is a great funding device for many great games that end up on their platform.
Also, it's a way to gauge the fan interest. Putting down real money is much different than sending out a tweet in support.
Also, also ... Putting off an E3 conference is not free, that airtime and promotion is worth a lot of dough as a pseudo investment into the game.
Sony may have just been looking for a way to "partner" or promote Kickstarter since it is a great funding device for many great games that end up on their platform.
Also, it's a way to gauge the fan interest. Putting down real money is much different than sending out a tweet in support.
Also, also ... Putting off an E3 conference is not free, that airtime and promotion is worth a lot of dough as a pseudo investment into the game.
Catatafish
Banned
You can't be serious. The developer make the decision, not a big publisher/platform owner. A platform owner can only have that right to console exclusivity if they fund the game.
They are not committing to anything here, but instead they are begging the fans to money hate the game for them.
wanderingprostheyltite
Member
How does this information affect your experience as the end user? I'm sure there are many games you've played that have each gone through dozens of revisions of funding, shaking of hands contracts wise, bringing in outside investors etc. I guess I just don't understand why the paper trail matters unless this money is coming from a truly nefarious source.
And do you really need to ask why it's not coming out on Xbox? It's already known Suzuki has close ties with people like Shu and Cerny, how does his potential prior business relationship with them have any bearing on the ramifications of the kickstarter proper? It seems like you're concerned about a paper trail that isn't that suspect to begin with.
John Rabbit
Banned
this is one of the weirder moments in E3 history, and it kind of rubbed me the wrong way, but i don't really see how else this game would've gotten the push it needed to exist without this kind of exposure/attention.
Absoludacrous
Member
You already got your answer when Boyes said it was Yu's thing, not theirs. You're never going to get Sony to admit they gave money ahead of time, so you can either take them at their word or choose to believe something else.
Sega is clearly still involved, so at best Sony is pulling a Street Fighter V. I would imagine that regardless of the situation and agreements in place though, it's all completely contingent on the kickstarter being successful, so you won't get any answers until then, nor do they really matter. You wouldn't be asking this question of Yakuza, and I don't know that Shenmue going through kickstarter changes anything.
cause it doesnt make sense to not put it on as many platforms as you can unless you made a deal beforehand
I doubt there'd be an exclusivity deal without Sony already funding the game, or at least a big part of it, then the KS is to gauge interest, then why say it's their project and you're not involved
things like that about this whole thing just strike me as odd and not very cool
"hey it's their project we're not involved" = "PC/PS4 only" = "???"
end game is we get shenmue and we wanted shenmue so im not really talking about what it means for just me ultimately
If you seriously think that $2,000,000 is the only funding this game is getting, then you're an idiot.
Market Research = $$$$ that could had went into making the game in the first place.
How is this shitty? You can already pre-order games like Final Fantasy Versus 13 (now) and it's been 8 years and still hasn't been released yet.
They are providing a cheap and easy option to prove there is a demand for something, and then get funded the rest of the amount needed to make it because they proved the game would sell/there is enough demand for a game like it.
Video games are a huge risk, especially when your not sure if there is a demand for a game or not. This is an efficient way to show there is a demand for a something like this, and can help products that would have never saw the light of day be made.
The PR and game exclusiveness is just part of the deal. I'm sure Sony is willing to fund this to even just break even just to have an amazing exclusive title on their system.
The only people who are upset are owners of other consoles, but in reality this game wouldn't had been possible without the deals it made to get the rest of the game funded. It's like the Bayonetta 2 debate with the Wii U, the game would had never happened unless Nintendo funded it, and because they did they made it exclusive because that's what they wanted for the deal and game developers agree.
It shouldn't suck because like I said THE GAME WOULD HAD NEVER HAVE BEEN MADE if they didn't sell to exclusivity.
So what's better? An actual chance to play the game or having it made in general or no game at all?
Porcile
Member
It's an ultra cynical move, intended purely to generate good PR. That's what all these stupid press conferences and digital events really are: epic PR exercises. The NWC was just a huge advertising exercise under the guise of a competetive tournament. Don't like it? Then you really only have yourself to blame by supporting and hyping these things to oblivion. Gamers basically demanded them to be this way and recently Sony is just better at doing it than anyone else. The game could end up being shit on a stick, but nothing's going to beat that initial wave of goodwill and that's all these companies care about.
Night Angel
Member
And kickstarters generally don't come close to the cost of a AAA game, so the worry that major pubs would use this idea for anything other than gauging interest and generating a bit of early revenue in the interest of developing a good game that will sell many copies is a bit of a stretch.
Sorry if I don't wanna get sucked into slippery slope shenanigans here, but I just don't see a problem with this. If you don't like the practice, nothing is stopping you from never kickstarting future games that use this method. You will still have the option to wait until release before you buy.
John Bender
Banned
It was for Shenmue 3.
"Once in a lifetime" thingy. So it was totally okay.
People shouldn't promote their games, dammit!
TheOhrenberger.
Banned
Catatafish
Banned
No. If you think that, then you don't know Shenmue.
alright? I mean, just because im not likely to get an answer am I not gonna ask the question that I think deserves to be asked or talked about. overall I think this is a discussion worth having and some people seem to agree
Business
Member
My first thought was Sony should just have paid for it. They probably thought about it for longer. The game will cost way more and sure Sony is paying a good chunk of it to secure console exclusivity. Maybe just a way to gauge the real interest in the game to see how much they put themselves now? It would be like how allegedly worked for Kingdom Come Deliverance.
Edit: Ah there you go
Edit: Ah there you go
It's certainly a strange one. And I hope Sony doesn't have a weird agreement to pretend that a X1 version won't come in return for that stage announcement.
If they're behind more funding, they should come out and clarify. As 2 million for this is chickenfeed unless the game is basically Ryo walking around in the forest. The game will reach it's two million goal easily.
So the rest of money is coming from somewhere.
If they're behind more funding, they should come out and clarify. As 2 million for this is chickenfeed unless the game is basically Ryo walking around in the forest. The game will reach it's two million goal easily.
So the rest of money is coming from somewhere.
Miles Quaritch
Member
Think about what?
That the game is already funded but Sega/Sony wanted an additional $2m to line their pockets?
Why ask for $2m if there's already a commitment to fund the game? I mean, there has to be, it's not like there'd invite the guy on stage, announce the game, set a low ball goal and then claim the game won't be going ahead because they somehow didn't achieve their goal.
Pretty suspect to ask for $2m in this context when the game is by all common sense likely already funded.
Don't make me sick.
zorlaczerohero
Banned
Or maybe they just gave free stage time to a legendary game designer out of respect for what he has and what he may create. Maybe Yu was offered a truck full of cash but didn't want to lose any creative control so refused Sony fully funding the project. Maybe, maybe, maybe.
We can all make up possible scenarios for what happened. But instantly saying it's "gross" and sets a "shitty precedent", based on the little we know is unwarranted.
The point of this thread is not everybody got what they wanted, in their own favorite console.
If kickstarter is the way we can get the games we beg for? I'm all in.
Legend of Dragoon 2
Chrono 3
Suikoden 6
Wild Arms
Grandia
Lunar
Seriously. All of my mother fucking bills for those games.
I'd rather pay $5-$25 to help get a game made I want, then see the endless cycle of shit day one DLC actually get bought. Hell, I wish every time someone bought an Easy Fatality in MKX's DLC it would go straight to funding one of the games on my list.
Legend of Dragoon 2
Chrono 3
Suikoden 6
Wild Arms
Grandia
Lunar
Seriously. All of my mother fucking bills for those games.
I'd rather pay $5-$25 to help get a game made I want, then see the endless cycle of shit day one DLC actually get bought. Hell, I wish every time someone bought an Easy Fatality in MKX's DLC it would go straight to funding one of the games on my list.
Haunted
Member
Shenmue is clearly a special case. There aren't many deeply-buried, unfinished series that have so many fans and are treated with a similar reverence. A project that fits the bill of being big enough to deserve the grand stage at a major manufacturer's E3 conference and simultaneously being beloved enough to have the dedicated fanbase clamouring for a remake/continuation to pull off several millions worth of Kickstarting.
If we're looking at candidates, a new "MGS" with Kojima could possibly fit those characteristics and be next year's sponsored kickstarter.
If we're looking at candidates, a new "MGS" with Kojima could possibly fit those characteristics and be next year's sponsored kickstarter.
If they're serious and have the necessary talent behind them - yes please!
wanderingprostheyltite
Member
I mean indies flock to either MS or Sony all the time, and there also a good deal of their kickstarters that do only mention one or the other as the platforms they'll be releasing on, no doubt due to deals they've made with contacts at either of them ahead of time. Does that really need to be spelled out ie "this is the specific contract we negotiated and they will give us x amount of funding should we meet our KS goal"? I've never seen that, and don't really expect that kind of transparency UNLESS it compromises the promises and goals outlined in the kickstarter such as rewards, meeting stretch goals and not delivering them etc.
I think you're caught up on the fact they used their E3 presser specifically to spread awareness of this, using hype and group think to elevate the affect of the appeal to emotion. I'll admit getting an old Suzuki up on stage to tell people to help him is some pretty on the nose emotional manipulation, but hey it worked and if he's happy he finally gets to finish his story in some form and the fans are happy, at the end of the day I think it's more good than bad done.
Tough. If Yu only wants to make it for PS4 and PC, that's on him. Maybe making it for other platforms would be prohibitively expensive? Maybe the team isn't big enough to pull it off? There could be any number of reasons. Ultimately, the decision falls on Yu Suzuki. You don't like it? Don't fund it and don't buy the game. Not everything is about what you want.
you are right tho, I do think the latter sheds a different light on this sorta thing and what it could turn into
orthodoxy1095
Banned
Let's consider the alternative. Sony takes Shenmue out and instead they replace it with...what? Something profitable to satisfy the execs? So maybe another 3rd party AAA! Wow that sure would be great.
Really in many ways, Sony took valuable conference time that they could have used to push a more mainstream, popular, profitable title, but they did this instead to give Shenmue the biggest stage. I can't complain about that, how could I?
If Nintendo or Microsoft want to use their conference next year to pander to core gamers, resurrect dead franchises and give life to loyal fans, then by God Sony just set a great precedent. Bring back more stuff like this!
Really in many ways, Sony took valuable conference time that they could have used to push a more mainstream, popular, profitable title, but they did this instead to give Shenmue the biggest stage. I can't complain about that, how could I?
If Nintendo or Microsoft want to use their conference next year to pander to core gamers, resurrect dead franchises and give life to loyal fans, then by God Sony just set a great precedent. Bring back more stuff like this!
I agree with OP. Not cool.
If this kickstarter just went up without being mysteriously featured on Sonys conference, I would have thrown a couple of hundred bucks in there within seconds of discovering it.
Now, I'm not sure if I'm even backing.
Why are you throwing this huge event, showing off all these AAA exclusivity contracts that have obviously cost you outrageous sums of money, and then have the gall to introduce Shenmue 3, which is apparently set to be exclusive to your platform, and expect me to fund it?
What the fuck, Sony?
If this kickstarter just went up without being mysteriously featured on Sonys conference, I would have thrown a couple of hundred bucks in there within seconds of discovering it.
Now, I'm not sure if I'm even backing.
Why are you throwing this huge event, showing off all these AAA exclusivity contracts that have obviously cost you outrageous sums of money, and then have the gall to introduce Shenmue 3, which is apparently set to be exclusive to your platform, and expect me to fund it?
What the fuck, Sony?
D
Deleted member 125677
Unconfirmed Member
the kickstarter campaign is most likely just a publicity stunt - some weird form of fan service
"let's do this together" - fans: "we did this"
"let's do this together" - fans: "we did this"
jizzlobber
Member
I'm really surprised so many people are ok with this... The fans are asked to lay down their money to fund it? And Sony stick it in their keynote and get mad kudos.
That's fantastic... For Sony!
I can't believe fans pay for this.
I work to hard for my money.
That's fantastic... For Sony!
I can't believe fans pay for this.
I work to hard for my money.
orthodoxy1095
Banned
If this is your reaction, it's fairly safe to say you're not really a fan of Shenmue. It's hard to be anything but thankful to see this game alive and being shared and pushed on the biggest stages in the industry. A previously dead and niche game was just shown to thousands and thousands of people. Many of whom had never seen it. It's a good thing.
2$ mil kickstarter is a drop in the bucket for the budget a game of this scope would need. If Sony is actually funding it then this is caked on layers of bullshit and they are going to scrape out every penny from people throwing HUNDREDS of dollars at a game they would have otherwise paid the standard 60$.
This is risk aversion. They could have swallowed the 2 mil USD without blinking an eye, and they can well enough do their market research to gauge demand. But why do that when the fans of the series will line up, throw hundreds of dollars at your non-existent product, and allow you to divest in its development while still raking in the PR, the eventual product, and the eventual sales of said product.
I wish I were the optimist to imagine they actually invest more if fans invest more but, no, in the real world they will invest less and the fans cough up more and more. After all, they have investors to please, right?
Microsoft and Nintendo should have stepped in then.
Miles Quaritch
Member
So you're not interested in actually debating this and instead are just acting the ass?
orthodoxy1095
Banned
This part in particular is silly. Yes some fans are throwing money blindly at the higher tiers. But many tiers are sweetening the deal with awesome Shenmue collectibles that haven't been seen in ages.
Absoludacrous
Member
Sony said it wasn't their kickstarter. Asking them again if they're involved in the kickstarter doesn't really seem like a question worth asking.
The entire discussion seems to boil down to people not understanding the context of something like Shenmue being behind kickstarter. They see the words Sony and kickstarter and suddenly we're on a slippery slope to Resistance 4 needing stretch goals. I don't know much more discussion you're going to generate beyond that, but have fun, I guess.
lastflowers
Banned
Kind of disgusting to me, but, the end probably justifies the means. It's not like anyone was hurt. If I see it again, I'll begin to worry about the overall consequences on the games funding mechanism.
I should also point out that there are probably more disgusting things from conferences that merit more scrutiny than this particular situation.
I should also point out that there are probably more disgusting things from conferences that merit more scrutiny than this particular situation.