Support NeoGAF

[questionmark]

As far as I see it, there are two alternatives. One is what we got, a kickstarter for Shenmue 3 announced at Sonys E3 conference. The other alternative, no Shenmue 3 at all. This is really all I care about.

I have absolutely no worries about this supposed precedent this has set. There is a very limited list of games that can get away with this, games like Shenmue 3 is on it. Other games that people want, like Uncharted 4, Halo 4 and Zelda Wii U are not on it. Either way, I say let them try it. People have already demonstrated that there is a limit to what they are willing to back on kickstarter. If big publishers think they can get away with this on the regular, they will be proven wrong.

 

[AmuroChan]

I can already see the bidding war now between MS/Sony to get a Kojima Kickstarter when he breaks free.

Kojima wouldn't need a kickstarter. Any of the major publishers would gladly give him a studio to work on a new game for them.

 

[I'm new be nice]

If this is what it takes to break us out of this rut that gaming has currently found itself in, and we just have to end up kickstarting the games we actually want, i'm fine with it.

It's something, whereas before we had nothing.

It's kind of fucked I agree, but it's producing the games I actually care about.

In a way it feels like the rebirth of AA gaming. It's the new way to gauge interest.

 

[3rdamention]

Posting for a new page:

Just for those wondering about the 'budget':

I am sure that Sony is going to pony up the $$ as well. Shenmue 2 was around $70 million to make. They aren't going to make Shenmue 3 with $2 million dollars. This is to gauge interest, and help a bit with development. Heck, it could be Yu's salary, lol, to get him to make it and Sony will fund the rest. Or maybe the $2 million goes to Sega for Licensing Fees. As for whether this belongs at Sony's Conference? I just dont know. There isn't really a precedent for this, but I am positive it will not be the last time we see it. I am indifferent.


I just know how long people have craved this game, demanded this game. They have begged Sony, begged Microsoft, and somehow, Sony made it work.



Remember these?

I like Shenmue as well but it's a Sega IP. MS Studios doesn't have much pull at Sega. I'll recommend to our 3rd party team.

Xbox's Phil Spencer: Biggest request I get is to bring back Shenmue

It took a creative blueprint to get it to happen with Kickstarter, but they got it to work. Sony worked around Sega's Red Tape (did you notice during the Shenmue 3 Gameplay teaser it said Sega in the corner?) So I am just happy for the people that want it, and I hope it doesn't disappoint.

 

[Salsa]

How did this reaction thread not get locked?

cause it's a legit reaction to something new and allegedly big and some people other than you are willing to discuss it

 

[Quadraphonic]

That's why I only put up $60. Retail price.

 

[Absoludacrous]

You can connect the dots however you want, doesn't mean your picture is accurate.

I don't even know what this means

 

[Kusagari]

Kojima wouldn't need a kickstarter. Any of the major publishers would gladly give him a studio to work on a new game for them.

I'm not too sure depending on the game he might want to make.

 

[Sify64]

Why is that bad if it means more small risky projects get made? Isn't gaming worse now because big publishers focus on big safe AAA titles?

The problem is,.. those big publishers are fully capable of funding those small risky projects by themselves. I'd definetely like to see more of those types of games made nowadays, but I have the feeling that it will turn into a slippery slope. First it starts at half a million, then sooner or later we'll be funding even bigger projects for 5 million and above.

 

[Heavy_D206]

If you don't want to spend your money on Kickstarter that's fine, but don't try to stop other people from being able to.

I think it's great we are getting this game.

 

[InsaneZero]

Adrian's thoughts are my mine as well. Beyond Good & Evil wasn't as good of a comparison but I usually see a lot of longing for it so I used it.

I can see it from your perspectives as well, but I have no doubt the gaming community would voice its displeasure when publishers start abusing kickstarter and make them think twice. Shenmue is a very, very isolated case.

We're talking about an industry where preorder bonuses are perfectly normal, announcement of season passes with very few details are still a thing, and "exclusive content" is actually treated as a notable bullet point. Erring on the side of caution should be the default reaction for any significant shift that can go bad.

 

[ReturnOfTheRAT]

Proof of demand. No problems whatsoever.

Let those of us put our money where our mouth is to show we care about something and want to see it come to fruition.

 

[superseohyun]

Hell no. I want Animal Crossing in HD 1080p on the WiiU more than anything, but if Nintendo asked me to Kickstart it I'd tell them to go to hell.

then they will go to hell and nothing will be made. The result is the same with or without kickstarter ------0 HD animal crossing. So...i guess it is fine in the end.

 

[Salsa]

If you don't want to spend your money on Kickstarter that's fine, but don't try to stop other people from being able to.

wut

Why is that bad if it means more small risky projects get made? Isn't gaming worse now because big publishers focus on big safe AAA titles?

slippery slope

regardless of the specifics in this scenario, a plausible "future" that should be possible for this (backed by the type of indie games that sell too) is for publisher to say "hey, people actually do want these games, maybe we don't need to kickstart some of em"

but.. yeah. that kinda goes the other way in terms of what's actually safest for a publisher, so tough luck

 

[Exile20]

I can tell you, if Nintendo tried that with a famous series to gauge demand through Kickstarter there would be outrage. People were angry enough that Nintendo funded Bayonetta 2 and even did an HD port of the first game. It would have been a PR disaster.

This is my problem. Kickstarter is there for devs to listen to their fans. If x1 and Wii u owners ask for ports they should put up stretch goal but with this Sony partnership it looks like it is console exclusive which undermines the whole point of kick starter.

This shit is some bullshit and yes you are right if nintendo did this then the whole internet would riot, it is Sony so everyone is cool with it.

At least Nintendo did the right thing and funded bay2 themselves. I sent a msg on ks for x1 and Wii u stretch goals, doubt I will get an answer.

 

[PeregrinSe7en]

I can already see the bidding war now between MS/Sony to get a Kojima Kickstarter when he breaks free.

interesting conclusion

if that does become reality here's how it goes

- MS is easily able to outbid Sony for Kojima's services due to MS just being significantly more wealthier. He has to seriously consider MS offer.

- Though Kojima chooses Sony as he has a longer relationship with them and also unlike MS, Sony gives him free reign to be as creative as possible. the sky would be the limit for Kojima.

- the new IP gets shown at next years E3 at the Sony conference and with a positive reception and a big marketing push.

that's how i see it

 

[Belfast]

Eh. Doesn't really bother me. When we buy a game we're basically bankrolling it anyway (or at least future versions/sequels). This just helps gauge the amount of interest. Is it worth it to put time and potentially money into a game that (to this point) was only really desired by a very vocal Internet fanbase? Wouldn't doubt some at Sony, like Boyes, were fans of the first two games anyway. Maybe they just wanted to give a boost to one of their favorite franchises even if the company at large is using it as a PR move?

I wouldn't be surprised if Sony ended up throwing some money into the pot beyond the 2+mil.

 

[wachie]

cause it's a legit reaction to something new and allegedly big and some people other than you are willing to discuss it

Ehh, legit. lol, ok.

Keep going on your tirade.

 

[Night Angel]

The problem is,.. those big publishers are fully capable of funding those small risky projects by themselves. I'd definetely like to see more of those types of games made nowadays, but I have the feeling that it will turn into a slippery slope. First it starts at half a million, then sooner or later we'll be funding even bigger projects for 5 million and above.

You mean the same slope we've been on with DLC, paid alphas (early access), preorders, etc.? I can't see how this is much worse, especially when considering how dead, dead, dead this franchise is as a whole.

 

[Salsa]

Ehh, legit. lol, ok.

Keep going on your tirade.

whoareyoutalkingto.gif

already regret engaging but if you think this is basically a thread akin to "where is -instert game-" then idk what to tell ya. plenty of opinions here and if I didnt make this someone would

 

[JohnnyFootball]

Maybe I should start a kickstarter for the Resistance trilogy.

 

[Exile20]

Proof of demand. No problems whatsoever.

Let those of us put our money where our mouth is to show we care about something and want to see it come to fruition.

So there should be wiiu and x1 stretch goals if people ask right? Proof if demand.

 

[Night Angel]

So there should be wiiu and x1 stretch goals if people ask right? Proof if demand.

Not if they already have a significant source of funding ready to bankroll the rest of the project as soon as the KS ends. An investor who may have given the project stage time at the biggest gaming event of the year who may have an interest in limiting the platforms said project releases on.

But I'm just guessing here.

Unless you really believe $2MM is enough for the game, of course.

 

[AmuroChan]

I'm not too sure depending on the game he might want to make.

With his reputation, it doesn't matter what game he wants to make. Somebody will swoop him up, if he doesn't want to go independent.

So there should be wiiu and x1 stretch goals if people ask right? Proof if demand.

Absolutely, if the publisher isn't Sony.

 

[The_Buttman]

It's bad because my platform of choice wasn't included.

 

[Pejo]

Listen to this man for you know not what you do. Do you all want to see more publishers turning to kickstarter to further offset the risk of development? I sure as hell don't. Funding games is literally their job they should do that themselves.

If it means backing the game for 30 bucks gets me a digital copy on release, I'm 100% fine with kickstarting games. I think it's a way better way for publishers to gauge different games, to see that not everyone wants focus group lowest common denominator stuff all the time.

 

[Sify64]

You mean the same slope we've been on with DLC, paid alphas (early access), preorders, etc.? I can't see how this is much worse, especially when considering how dead, dead, dead this franchise is as a whole.

Exactly, isn't it wiser for us to nip it in the bud now before it gets out of hand like all those others things you mentioned. I'm not saying that nobody should back the kickstarter campaign, as I think it is a good way to revive the dead Shenmue franchise. But I think it can always get worse, when it comes to those publishers.

 

[The Inventor]

The only thing I can think of is maybe, Shenmue could not be possible without this major exposition during E3 in a PS (or Xbox) conference.

Sony: "Ok, Yu, you have your moment, but we get the console exclusivity"

 

[ninjabat]

As soon as it happened I immediately thought"good guy playstation." Legit the game got a huge boost from announcing the kickstarter on stage, Playstation did the right thing.

This gives the game a better chance at being a success. The alternative where Playstation backs the game fully, and reveals a gameplay trailer is a sure way to never see Shenmue 4. This gives the franchise a chance.

 

[Zukuu]

It works only for a few special game series. It would NEVER work for a new IP.

It's a publisher backed campaign tho, so it's pretty safe. See it as early, cheaper pre-order.

 

[PeregrinSe7en]

It's bad because my platform of choice wasn't included.

i said this before, but that's totally on MS. they could have picked it up and made it an Xbone exclusive, but they didn't.

want someone to blame, blame them

Sony reacted, MS didn't

 

[Absoludacrous]

This is my problem. Kickstarter is there for devs to listen to their fans. If x1 and Wii u owners ask for ports they should put up stretch goal but with this Sony partnership it looks like it is console exclusive which undermines the whole point of kick starter.

This shit is some bullshit and yes you are right if nintendo did this then the whole internet would riot, it is Sony so everyone is cool with it.

At least Nintendo did the right thing and funded bay2 themselves. I sent a msg on ks for x1 and Wii u stretch goals, doubt I will get an answer.

You're adding your own opinion on what Kickstarter is or isn't.

Again, you can't separate the context of which game this is happening to. They didn't pick a random game off a dartboard to try to test the waters for a publisher-backed kickstarter. There's a reason this is happening to a franchise most people thought was buried forever.

 

[Corpekata]

So there should be wiiu and x1 stretch goals if people ask right? Proof if demand.

Not if it doesn't fit the platform. We've already seen at least two Wii U stretch goal games regret it as they can't get the game running decently on the platform.

And MS has very well known issues with their policies regarding smaller titles that could easily conflict with kickstarters. It's not a simple issue of them just wanting to release on the platform.

 

[On Demand]

cause it's a legit reaction to something new and allegedly big and some people other than you are willing to discuss it

It doesn't say the type of reactions to E3 matter. Just don't do em. Read the policy.


Just saying.


Anyway i don't see the problem really. This is a game that's been wanted for over a decade. I think there can be an exception for this since E3 is the perfect place for the getting the word out for something this big.

 

[Pseudo_Sam]

Yeah that's the most baffling part, this franchise always seemed like a bloated corpse with a particularly passionate fanbase. No way 2 mil is enough for what the fans are expecting. Did Sony guarantee an angel investment contingent upon the Kickstarter's success? Or did they just provide a time slot in front of millions for them to gain exposure in exchange for exclusive console rights? If Sony doesn't invest heavily then fans are going to be seriously disappointed. At the same time, if they do invest, I feel like when people unfamiliar with the franchise see what Shenmue is, and not just the hype, they're not gonna come out in droves. Shenmue is not a mass-market sort of game. Sony's not going to make bank on it (See: previous Shenmue financial disasters).

One way or the other someone is getting seriously shafted here. This Kickstarter business gives me the feeling that somehow it's going to be us.

 

[Lothars]

So there should be wiiu and x1 stretch goals if people ask right? Proof if demand.

If nintendo or microsoft was funding it but it seems like Sony will be funding the majority of it and this is guaging interest.

Other products have done it and there is nothing wrong with Sony doing this for Shenmue.

It's bad because my platform of choice wasn't included.

Than blame those companies that didn't want to fund it.

 

[InsaneZero]

If it means backing the game for 30 bucks gets me a digital copy on release, I'm 100% fine with kickstarting games. I think it's a way better way for publishers to gauge different games, to see that not everyone wants focus group lowest common denominator stuff all the time.

Nothing in Kickstarter will prevent a publisher from making a focus group-based lowest common denominator game, and they'll be happy to do so to maximize revenue. They'll just be using your money to do it.

 

[Thunder Monkey]

It's sort of how I felt about the Veronica Mars movie. As happy as I am for Shenmue, I dunno. Feels dirty?

Yeah, but I'm willing to do dirty things to get Shenmue.

My conscience is clear.

 

[HP_Wuvcraft]

Couldn't give a rats ass since it was Shenmue III. That's all I care about.

Let me ask you a question: do you also occasionally make racist or sexist jokes but deny they are racist or sexist because of intent?

 

[wanderingprostheyltite]

You say this sets a new precedent cause Sony is so "big", but imo that's only a public awareness definition. Investment groups give round A funding regularly to kickstarted projects and their pocketbooks tend to be quite ample as well. Oculus is a good example, and yes, people were up in arms about it once their relationship with (can't remember their name) was initially announced. I say wait and see, if Sony is found to be involved funding wise after the kickstarter concludes then yeah their approach was certainly shady if they're claiming to not be involved. I fully expect somebody to step up to the plate publishing wise, and wouldn't be surprised if it was via contacts connected through Playstation top brass. Is that still in murky territory disclosure wise? Personally I don't see an issue if it's a third party distributor. Then again I am biased as I think it would be pretty cool to see this thing get made even if it isn't on a comparable scale of the original titles for the time they were released.

 

[EatinOlives]

Sony's involved. There's zero percent chance that the game costs only 2 mil from start to finish.

Kickstarter was used because they've realized it can now be used as marketing. Especially on a cult game like this, giving people the chance to directly fund a portion of game development on something like this is going to appeal to a ton of people.

 

[Absoludacrous]

Nothing in Kickstarter will prevent a publisher from making a focus group-based lowest common denominator game, and they'll be happy to do so to maximize revenue. They'll just be using your money to do it.

Usually with these kickstarters you're dealing with a vocal, dedicated fanbase. That's only a bridge you can burn once. So while it's possible, I wouldn't expect it to be a trend that could sustain itself.

 

[Moon_frogger]

meh I see why people are weirded out by this but honestly the franchise was dead. Kickstarter is the only way fans are going to get what they want.

 

[zeshakag]

Really don't have a problem with it. If it were some different circumstance maybe, but Yu was obviously coming to Sony for help and Sony said "look man, this is great, but a lot of people think Shenmue sucks or don't care about it, and after providing necessary funding ($40 mil 90's dollars) to make a legit Shenmue game, we don't think it would succeed." But since they respect Yu, they gave him a chance to show interest in the game, and even helped him out with the E3 announcement. If Sony thinks it's lukewarm, no harm no foul, if it does, Sony knows there's something worth investing in. It's investment procurement 101.

Yes, this is an obvious marketing move, but it's also a favor to one of the most prolific devs of the previous decade. In E3 literally EVERYTHING is marketing. That's why devs say "actual in-game footage" when it ain't, that's why there's fake voice chatter, and that's why people get pissed when their demo isn't running right.

 

[InsaneZero]

Usually with these kickstarters you're dealing with a vocal, dedicated fanbase. That's only a bridge you can burn once. So while it's possible, I wouldn't expect it to be a trend that could sustain itself.

I'm not sure how publishers will lose out in this situation since a Kickstarter failure just means things have to go back to the status quo.

 

[Absoludacrous]

I'm not sure how publishers will lose out in this situation since a Kickstarter failure just means things have to go back to the status quo.

They lose the ability to grow the franchise that they put the resources into kickstarting in the first place.

Edit: Or other properties that might have similar luck

 

[Shining Sunshine]

It's cool and progressive.

It gives more reputation and integrity to Kickstarters so they are pressured not to be giant scams.

 

[Apathy]

Any common sense would have told you that this is going to be partially funded by Sony. Otherwise it would not have been shown at the conference, it would specify on the Kickstarter page something other than pc/ps4 and the fact that the goal is 2mil. This is 100% to show corporate that yes there is a market for this game, you end up funding the portion it needs after the kickstarter which will probably include marketing (as if showing the kickstarter at the Sony conference was not a clear indication of that). Even at 5 million, this would still need the funding from a big player.

 

[InsaneZero]

They lose the ability to grow the franchise that they put the resources into kickstarting in the first place.

The great thing about Kickstarter is that it requires very little startup cost since the whole point is to fund a project in the first place.

 

[bananafactory]

Seems like the same situation as Amplitude