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[Yoshi]

Exactly. Its a publisher saying you want it, you fund it. With Kickstarter we can get you to put any amount up to fund it even if the unit numbers aren't there. I'm telling you its chasing the die hards and getting "good will".

If they really wanted it, they would just fund it themselves.

You know, if MS said "We will make Banjo-Threeie, Conker 2 and Blast Corps 2, but you have to pay the games beforehand via Kickstarter", I'd gladly give them 60€ each (or more if it's needed to get a physical copy). I'm fine with that. For fan-favourite games that publishers deem "probably not worth it" it's a fine way to go. Certainly better than not getting the games at all.

 

[Call Me A Hero]

I don't think announcing a kickstarter project on E3 stage is a right practice.

 

[Ragnarok]

Seriously why does anyone give a shit? I hope it becomes commonplace for otherwise dead franchises. It gives massive publicity to practically forgotten games. Shows publishers that these games still have followings and can potentially still make money. If it means great franchises get revived that should be all that matters. E3 isn't some holy ceremony with a lot of integrity in the first place. Getting worked up about this seems silly. Get back to me when games that were going to get made anyway start doing this.

 

[Xaero Gravity]

I'm so torn. I want to be apart of the Kickstarter, but it being only digital on PS4 is a major bummer. Hopefully they add a physical copy stretch goal.

 

[Jhn]

If this is your reaction, it's fairly safe to say you're not really a fan of Shenmue. It's hard to be anything but thankful to see this game alive and being shared and pushed on the biggest stages in the industry. A previously dead and niche game was just shown to thousands and thousands of people. Many of whom had never seen it. It's a good thing.

So your definition of a fan is someone who will unquestionably support something 100% without any regards to the circumstances? I could do without the no-true-scotsmaning.

I give a shit about Shenmue. Really, I do. But I also give a shit about not being treated like an idiot and being taken advantage of.

 

[DangerMouse]

TLG! But...it looks exactly the same as it did 6 years, and its still not very exciting. "2016" huh...

Your opinion.

I think it still looks very exciting, even if the demo isn't "actiony exciting" in this area. They clearly picked this spot because it's "the" spot that we all remember from the original demo that we never got.

Plus both ICO and SOTC have their own pacing and the big thing this time that many have been waiting for is the cooperation between the kid and the animal (who still looks great), what they'll get into will obviously be the exciting stuff, and even just seeing that working for real and animating for real is pretty exciting after so long thinking the game might never come.

Even in the demo without enemies yet (like those guards in the old trailer) you could see a combination of ICO and SOTC's gameplay bits.

As for the other stuff they weren't really sneaky since they came out said that their holiday 2015 was light on first party stuff after Uncharted 4 got delayed (and Rachet since the movie didn't come this year too). And it's not like those games got pushed far, they're early 2016.

 

[Vena]

This part in particular is silly. Yes some fans are throwing money blindly at the higher tiers. But many tiers are sweetening the deal with awesome Shenmue collectibles that haven't been seen in ages.

Uhm, no. Not really. Even if we were to say that every single multi-hundred dollar investor were doing it for "the collectibles" (which I highly, highly doubt... and that is still something preying on their nostalgia) what about all the minor purchases that are effectively paying for a game that does not exist in any form aside from scratch work on some napkin? This is worse than pre-ordering season passes, now you're asking for people to pay for a game that not only does not exist in any form but one that doesn't have a defined budget, doesn't have a full development team, and doesn't even have a publisher.

More over, this game doesn't even have a timeline or a release schedule. Its a concept.

Its risk aversion, and its a terrible precedent. Worse still, the details of the deals going on behind the scenes are totally obfuscated during this "funding blitz" and PR publicity stint.

 

[orthodoxy1095]

It gives massive publicity to practically forgotten games.

This is the key.

Somewhere tonight, some teenager watching E3 learned about Shenmue for the first time and she went to Google it and figure out what's such a big deal. Somewhere tonight, a dude in his mid to late 30s dug out his Dreamcast to boot up the game he had totally forgotten he loved. This is awesome. It gave Shenmue a place on the biggest stage with the widest reach possible!

Its risk aversion, and its a terrible precedent.

Yeah I mean before you know it, Microsoft will be Kickstarting Halo 6 and Sony will be Kickstarting Uncharted 5. This is the slippery slope to hell right here!

Spoiler

There's no terrible precedent here, unless you don't want forgotten fan favorites to be made and broadcasted to wide audiences that wouldn't otherwise see them. In which case I'm not quite sure what the hell is wrong with you.

 

[Wagram]

They got millions of peoples attention, let them have it man. They've waited so long.

 

[charlequin]

2$ mil kickstarter is a drop in the bucket for the budget a game of this scope would need.

This is risk aversion. They could have swallowed the 2 mil USD without blinking an eye, and they can well enough do their market research to gauge demand. But why do that when the fans of the series will line up, throw hundreds of dollars at your non-existent product, and allow you to divest in its development while still raking in the PR, the eventual product, and the eventual sales of said product.

You get that these two points contradict each other, right? If we're talking about crowdfunding $2m of a $25m budget, the Kickstarter funds neither mitigate risk to a significant amount nor represent a significant portion of the audience who ultimately need to buy the game for it to be a success. Funding the budgetary difference based on a level of crowdfunded success is still taking a big risk on the idea that the backers are representative of a much bigger market of still-untapped potential buyers.

 

[InsaneZero]

This is the key.

Somewhere tonight, some teenager watching E3 learned about Shenmue for the first time and she went to Google it and figure out what's such a big deal. Somewhere tonight, a dude in his mid to late 30s dug out his Dreamcast to boot up the game he had totally forgotten he loved. This is awesome. It gave Shenmue a place on the biggest stage with the widest reach possible!

I'm not sure where exactly a Kickstarter is required for any part of this.

 

[wanderingprostheyltite]

you are right tho, I do think the latter sheds a different light on this sorta thing and what it could turn into

There's certainly a lot of IPs out there that haven't seen releases in some time and likely never will. Surely there's a more tactful approach to doing this without carting an old luminary on stage. A trailer does the job just as effectively. As a Shenmue fan myself the music alone tugged at enough heartstrings to get me on board. Maybe don't use huge pressers for this kind of thing, I'd think social media is effective enough with how connected everyone is. KS pitch videos alone have proven effective when produced competently.

Maybe this was just a matter of Shu and/or Cerny's long friendship with Suzuki that they just honest to god wanted to give the man exposure on this scale as a boost and well wishes gesture.

I think we could be in a fan service utopia personally if this becomes a thing. Imagine if Nintendo did this for a Mother 3 translation and e shop release, or MS with Banjo. That shit would get funded overnight. For me, if they weren't gonna fund it anyway and this enables things to get made more for the demographic that'll eat it up, I say bombs away. Open the floodgates, just don't skew the KS goals and drastically change focus down the line unless it's a resources issue. Transparency isn't exactly a luxury we've had as consumers in this industry though :/

 

[orthodoxy1095]

I'm not sure where exactly a Kickstarter is required for any part of this.

I guess you must have missed the part where Shenmue was a dead, niche, forgotten franchise that needed reviving which was only going to feasibly come from someone with lots of private money or through crowd-funding.

 

[Vena]

You get that these two points contradict each other, right? If we're talking about crowdfunding $2m of a $25m budget, the Kickstarter funds neither mitigate risk to a significant amount nor represent a significant portion of the audience who ultimately need to buy the game for it to be a success. Funding the budgetary difference based on a level of crowdfunded success is still taking a big risk on the idea that the backers are representative of a much bigger market of still-untapped potential buyers.

The crux is that they are going to get more than that, they are going to squeeze out as much as they can with this move. Their overall budget will not move, they are simply getting someone else to pay for part of it ahead of time. Even if they only exceed 2$ mil by a dollar, that one less dollar for them to spend.

That is what I meant. Nowhere in this is Kickstarter required other than to give a divestment opportunity on the risk of this type of title, and there's no way that this title will not reach the 2$ mil set. This wasn't even a basic litmus test on its creation, it was almost guaranteed to pass with the presentation they gave it and the fanbase surrounding it.

 

[1st Course]

the kickstarter campaign is most likely just a publicity stunt - some weird form of fan service

"let's do this together" - fans: "we did this"

This is what I think too. Game will def need way more than $2m if they want to hit anywhere near the scope of the first two games.

 

[Salsa]

Transparency isn't exactly a luxury we've had as consumers in this industry though :/

that's it, but kickstarter basically flips the thing; so the take on transparency should change to reflect that. sony doing this on a big stage in the same way they would any normal non-kickstarter product (or even with less info) isnt really indicative of that. it's not the same to pay beforehand than after, and pre-orders are independent of a game getting made or not. it's kind of a delicate thing and I at least think they should be more upfront about what this precisely is and what's the deal

 

[Triggerhappytel]

I'll quote myself from the Shenmue 3 topic:

It's at over $1.5 million already... is that the fastest funding on Kickstarter ever? (EDIT - I see this was asked above). My guess is that, like Bloodstained, if the Kickstarter can hit that goal then a publisher (Sony, presumably?) will give Suzuki a big bagload of money to help with development (pulling numbers out of my arse, I'd guess about an extra $10 million).

But there must be a Shenmue 1 & 2 HD port though, right?! I mean, there just has to be. The series has never been on PS before, so really they need an HD port to bring people up to speed. I mean, I'm kind of interested in this but I've never played the series before (excluding about literally 10 minutes of Shenmue 2 on Xbox), so I feel like I need to at least have the option to play the first game to get up to speed.

 

[AcceptableGhost]

Doing it this way gives the Kickstarter a big signal boost and means that it isn't a Sony internal project - so I don't have to play it on a PS4. Seems fine to me.

 

[InsaneZero]

I guess you must have missed the part where Shenmue was a dead, niche franchise that needed reviving which was only going to feasibly come from someone with lots of money or through crowd-funding.

No, I understand that part too. What I'm not sure about is why a publisher like Sony would create a Kickstarter if they were already intending to fund the game. That's like saying you have enough confidence to advertise a game for publicity but not enough to actually fund the game itself.

 

[Monster Zero]

Wow, I honestly can't believe this us an issue. People beg for money all the time

 

[Salsa]

ok, scenario based on the previously done publiser-gets-with-game-IF-it-reaches-number

- Sony announces on their stage Shenmue kickstarter. Says nothing to do with it. ever. at all. their thing!

- Kickstarter mentions PC/PS4. no xbone. Sony clearly involved to some extent while denying it.

- Kickstarter does amazing

- Next E3 / or before, Sony says they're publishing the game on console themselves due to the high demand and giving the players what their want /s

////// alternative ///////

- Kickstarter does not amazing OR game looks eh

- Sony does nothing. was never their thing!


if I had to guess this is how I see this play out, or actually playing out now due to the no xbone

is it odd to find something fundamentally wrong / worrisome with it in practice

isnt this something that could technically happen now that this is a thing, even if it ends up being not precisely the case here

 

[MCN]

No, I understand that part too. What I'm not sure about is why a publisher like Sony would create a Kickstarter if they were already intending to fund the game. That's like saying you have enough confidence to advertise a game for publicity but not enough to actually fund the game itself.

Perhaps they're not intending to fund the game if it fails to meet the target, because that would show the demand isn't there?

 

[xrnzaaas]

This is laughable... 20 million won't be enough to make a next-gen Shenmue game. Assuming of course they won't turn into some very small project, but then again they're calling it Shenmue III. I don't like when Kickstarter is used to promote titles from bigger studios that will be released no matter how much money is collected.

 

[Khrysler Jerikho]

My random thoughts on the subject:

- not really sure what's the difference between this Shenmue KS reveal with IGA's.

- if Kojima and del Toro did the same with Silent Hills will we be seeing a different tune?

- Ono should do this for Darkstalkers

 

[orthodoxy1095]

No, I understand that part too. What I'm not sure about is why a publisher like Sony would create a Kickstarter if they were already intending to fund the game. That's like saying you have enough confidence to advertise a game for publicity but not enough to actually fund the game itself.

Personally I'm of the mind that the $2 million is irrelevant for the game's funding. It's a drop in the bucket compared to what the game needs In other words, Sony (and whoever else might be in the investment group) isn't waiting to see if the $2 million is going to appear. They knew that money was there. I think Kickstarter has a use to gauge fan interest (how much more should be given by the investors) and as a viral tool for pushing interest. What's really even more interesting is how quickly it's getting funded. That's even more important than the money itself because it tells us that the fanbase is hungry and really alive.

 

[NoPiece]

You get that these two points contradict each other, right? If we're talking about crowdfunding $2m of a $25m budget, the Kickstarter funds neither mitigate risk to a significant amount nor represent a significant portion of the audience who ultimately need to buy the game for it to be a success. Funding the budgetary difference based on a level of crowdfunded success is still taking a big risk on the idea that the backers are representative of a much bigger market of still-untapped potential buyers.

The risk isn't the development cost, the risk is that you don't recoup your cost because there turns out no one wants your game. Kickstarter mitigates the risk in two ways - you can get some sense of the demand upfront, and you also build a rabid fanbase very early in the process. And raising $2+ million won't be throwaway money.

No, I understand that part too. What I'm not sure about is why a publisher like Sony would create a Kickstarter if they were already intending to fund the game. That's like saying you have enough confidence to advertise a game for publicity but not enough to actually fund the game itself.

1: we don't know who the publisher is
2: sony didn't create the Kickstarter - it was created by Yu Suzuki's company YSNET.

 

[Muzy72]

Everyone's so cynical.

I'm just fucking glad the game exists, man.

 

[lastflowers]

I really don't want to have to preorder every game in order for it to be made. I know this is a slippery slope argument, but we're paying for the market research for games like this. I'm essentially never going to put in money to these bigger budget projects that trampoline into money clauses with publishers, because something about it feels icky.

It's fine if you'll want to. I'll just be sitting in the corner like a curmudgeonly old man yelling to no one and not even sure why exactly he's yelling.

 

[InsaneZero]

Perhaps they're not intending to fund the game if it fails to meet the target, because that would show the demand isn't there?

Being able to get the credit of bringing a franchise from the dead without actually doing so and putting the onus on fans to put in the work for them in that case is not an idea I'm exactly comfortable with.

 

[MrCookiepants]

Kickstarter is for small indie studios. Sega can piss off and fund it themselves.

Sega has nothing to do with this project. If it had a publisher it wouldn't need kickstarter, dummy.

 

[orthodoxy1095]

I really don't want to have to preorder every game in order for it to be made.

I don't think the future is us preordering EVERY game. I think there is a future where if we want niche or dead games to come back, we'll have to do this. Would I be willing to pay for Uncharted or Mario to be made like this? No. Am I willing to fork over for Yooka-Laylee, Bloodstained, Shenmue 3 or even outside of gaming, stuff like the anime Under the Dog or Little Witch Academia? Absolutely. I already did.

This happens with all kinds of stuff on KStarter. Games. Movies. Comic books (funded bunches of those myself).

 

[Majukun]

ehi,if it's the ony way we are gonna get shenmue 3..no problem with it.

 

[prwxv3]

Kickstarter is a great way to gauge fan interest. Fans actually have to put their money where their mouth is and they get the game (and other goodies for doing soo.) if a publisher tried to pull this with a game like COD then we would be on the same page.

 

[Kaswa101]

Haven't played Shenmue so I don't know anything about it, but I thought this was fine tbh. The project would've stayed dead otherwise and this gives it a lot of publicity to attract new fans too. Plus it was nice that Suzuki got to go on-stage and express his willingness to do the game and thank fans too. Imo of course.

 

[dracula_x]

I don't think the future is us preordering EVERY game. I think there is a future where if we want niche or dead games to come back, we'll have to do this. Would I be willing to pay for Uncharted or Mario to be made like this? No. Am I willing to fork over for Yooka-Laylee, Bloodstained, Shenmue 3 or even outside of gaming, stuff like the anime Under the Dog or Little Witch Academia? Absolutely. I already did.

This happens with all kinds of stuff on KStarter. Games. Movies. Comic books (funded bunches of those myself).

Agreed.

If, for example, Kojima and co. announce P.T. Kickstarter campaign tomorrow, I would be only glad. And I wouldn't care who announced this and where.

 

[Rurunaki]

Most likely that Sony has a console exclusivity deal on Shenmue and that the kickstarter is just there to gauge public interest and leaves the game open for PC port for possible revenue for Yu's studio (with Sony taking a profit share). $2 Mil is too small a budget for a true Shenmue sequel, and this all points to Sony co-publishing the game with Yu's team.

 

[1st Course]

Everyone's so cynical.

I'm just fucking glad the game exists, man.

This is really the only thing that should matter. Ultimately the fans got their wish.

 

[Mpl90]

I think to get if it's REALLY a Sony-driven stunt or not, despite them totally saying on stage that it isn't their project, they wanted to give Yu the stage to announce it, we need to see if more platforms are added as stretch goals. I mean, I get that PS4/PC are the only ones so far, but it's not like platforms added later as stretch goals never happened in other KS, right? Going by how quickly it's getting funded, we shouldn't wait too much.

 

[Newtype-001]

Idc as long as its well known that they are doing the kickstarter to see if there is an audience. Id rather have that than an exec just deciding no. Having it on stage in front of a million or so gamers most whove probably never heard of shenmue now are aware of its existence.

 

[Kathian]

Kickstarter is there to test not if the game will get backers (who the fuck announces something in a press conference if they think it might fail to be backed?) but a test if kickstarter can raise funds quicker than pre-orders.

If it were just pre-orders they'd have less immediate sales, they can also get more than the value of the game from fans wanting more and stretch goals. Their just looking to enhance their return and are using kickstarter to do it.

 

[Hisoka]

I think it takes guts to announce a game, and that you need pledges for it, on such a big event.
I also dont think that the 2m goal is low. Let's see if it gets up to bloodstained lvls. But i guess this will be the biggest videogame kickstarter ever.

 

[Sassen]

I'm not seeing the problem. Yu was going to announce it on his own anyway, but Sony provided him with an international stage.

 

[vinnygambini]

Sega has nothing to do with this project. If it had a publisher it wouldn't need kickstarter, dummy.

Sega is very much part of the conversation as they own the trademark related to the franchise.

I think the Kickstarter was a great way in introducing Shenmue again; however, the lack of transparency is what is making me nervous.

What's the budget?
Who's publishing it?
Who are the parties involved?
What agreements are in place (does $2 million equate to 10% of the funding like Bloodstained)?

So many unanswered questions. I want to pledge, but please get your act together.

 

[DeepEnigma]

I'm not seeing the problem. Yu was going to announce it on his own anyway, but Sony provided him with an international stage.

Pretty much this.

 

[Absoludacrous]

ok, scenario based on the previously done publiser-gets-with-game-IF-it-reaches-number

- Sony announces on their stage Shenmue kickstarter. Says nothing to do with it. ever. at all. their thing!

- Kickstarter mentions PC/PS4. no xbone. Sony clearly involved to some extent while denying it.

- Kickstarter does amazing

- Next E3 / or before, Sony says they're publishing the game on console themselves due to the high demand and giving the players what their want /s

////// alternative ///////

- Kickstarter does not amazing OR game looks eh

- Sony does nothing. was never their thing!


if I had to guess this is how I see this play out, or actually playing out now due to the no xbone

is it odd to find something fundamentally wrong / worrisome with it in practice

isnt this something that could technically happen now that this is a thing, even if it ends up being not precisely the case here

If anyone is going to publish the game, it's going to be Sega, not Sony. It's a Sega IP. If they were willing to let someone else take it and run with it, you would have seen Microsoft grab it already based on Spencer's comments.

Besides, even if that does happen in your hypothetical scenario, so what? If the kickstarter takes off, and sony actually had a hand in it like you believe, then the game still only exists because of Sony. If it fails and they quietly back away, who cares. The game failed and no one wanted it anyway. Where is the slippery slope? If Sony being involved is how this exists, does it matter that there's not an xbox version? If Sony isn't involved and Yu Suzuki decided the best way to get the game made was to focus on the two platforms he felt would be the most successful, does it matter that there's not an Xbox version? Does knowing that it's one or the other change anything whatsoever?

 

[Earthpainting]

Pretty sneaky, sis. The way they did it is basically a rebranded pre-order, where you can put down significantly more money than the game actually costs. A publisher's wet dream. I realise that's par for the Kickstarter course, but this is one of those cases where I don't think they needed to measure public interest or were strapped for funding.

 

[Kurita]

I'm okay with it. People have been asking for years for the sequel to a game that almost killed Sega, so...

 

[Salsa]

If anyone is going to publish the game, it's going to be Sega, not Sony. It's a Sega IP. If they were willing to let someone else take it and run with it, you would have seen Microsoft grab it already based on Spencer's comments.

Besides, even if that does happen in your hypothetical scenario, so what? If the kickstarter takes off, and sony actually had a hand in it like you believe, then the game still only exists because of Sony. If it fails and they quietly back away, who cares. The game failed and no one wanted it anyway. Where is the slippery slope? If Sony being involved is how this exists, does it matter that there's not an xbox version? If Sony isn't involved and Yu Suzuki decided the best way to get the game made was to focus on the two platforms he felt would be the most successful, does it matter that there's not an Xbox version? Does knowing that it's one or the other change anything whatsoever?

I don't like the idea of a platform holder being involved, making a deal to limit the game to their console, saying they're not, gettin credit, and coming out saying they were or just reekin on the benefits only if the kickstarter does well

I don't like it. kickstarter allows to dip a toe without saying anything and controlling how you come off from a thing without the real risk, and I think it's a bit potentially slippery, yeah. It's alright if you and others are fine with it, that's what opinions are for.

 

[benzy]

This is really the only thing that should matter. Ultimately the fans got their wish.

Yup. People complaining about nothing.

 

[Japanmanx3]

Everyone's so cynical.

I'm just fucking glad the game exists, man.