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Law School & Lawyer GAF
- Thread starter SD-Ness
- Start date
Whichever jail he is housed in. The jail you want to visit him at. Call them and ask for their rules on visitation.
WonkyPanda
Member
So, anyone got any tips heading into a SA position? Maybe, specifically, is it worth seeking out certain partners? Do you always have to try and "sell" yourself? I know a good obvious one is, "don't get tanked at a social event." But, what other words of wisdom can you guys give? I'm a bit nervous, to be honest. Being no-offered is my recurring nightmare.
This. Also- I suck at Westlaw and my memo writing is mediocre. How much do I need to worry about that?
Now is your time to work on that.
Rules for being a summer associate:
(1) Don't get trashed at social events (as you mentioned);
(2) Make it a point to get to know as many people as you can. When they're discussing who to bring back next year and who to hire, you don't want some of the partners to say "now who is that?"
(3) Ties in with (2), but is really dependent upon your firm and the structure of their summer program: try to work for and with as many different attorneys as you can. Don't be afraid to ask for work if you can get it done. Don't hesitate to ask what they're doing and ask if there's anything you can do.
(4) If you're offered work, do it. Unless you really, really, REALLY cannot get it done, you are never to busy to work on a project.
(5) Don't be a dick.
(6) Be respectful to the staff. They are more important than you. Yes, the firm will probably treat you like an attorney, but never forget that not only are the staff actually employees of the firm but that they can help you or they can completely fuck you over. Be respectful of their time and of them as individuals. They know more than you about how to get things done. Hell, the experienced paralegals probably know more about how to get things done than most of the partners, no matter how good the firm.
(7) Hold your liquor.
(8) DO NOT GET A DUI.
(9) No sex with staff, attorneys, or other summer associates.
(10) Do good work. When given an assignment always assume that they know the answer they're looking for and are just checking to see what you can come up with. If you can't find an answer, be prepared to explain what you have done in order to find an answer.
(11) If your firm has Westlaw, USE THEIR REFERENCE ATTORNEYS: http://westreferenceattorneys.com/contact-us/ Use them. Use them. Use them.
WonkyPanda
Member
Thanks, MRE! Good info in there.
I guess, i'm just more concerned about my work product than anything. I just know my first assignment is going to give me a "deer in headlights" moment. I guess the difficult thing, too, is trying to adapt to different partner's preferences. We all have our nitpicks when it comes to writing and structure, so I guess the challenge is figuring that out.
I guess, i'm just more concerned about my work product than anything. I just know my first assignment is going to give me a "deer in headlights" moment. I guess the difficult thing, too, is trying to adapt to different partner's preferences. We all have our nitpicks when it comes to writing and structure, so I guess the challenge is figuring that out.
djblackice
Member
.
As an associate who has worked with a bunch of summers over the years, I honestly think (10) is less important than summers realize. I don't expect Justice Roberts level work from summers. All I ask is that they work hard, listen, use their brain, and have a good attitude.
I can add one thing. If your firm hires by practice group, make sure that practice group knows of your interest. If someone expresses an initial interest in joining my group, but then does, say, tax all summer, then I won't even consider them for my group at any point.
Think long-term. Go wherever you will be able to do the type of work you want to do. The lack of billable hours is not really a positive in my book, but that's not really what matters day to day in terms of your happiness and growth. That said, I have a bunch of friends who made a similar move but regretted it, mostly because the coworkers at their new position sucked. Lot of asshats in the legal profession.
djblackice
Member
.
The main thing people want to know about their summer associates is whether they will be good people to work with. They know you're smart but they don't expect you to know much of anything about the actual practice of law. They do want to see how well you get along with others, whether you are respectful and defer to the staff, and whether you can take directions. Simply by bringing you in for the summer, they've made an investment in you. so have some confidence in yourself, because you've already accomplished a lot.
Ah, well I just don't care anymore about billable hours. Now that I have some years under my belt, I don't fear getting fired as much as I did when I was just starting out.
stn
Member
Anyone well-versed in English law care to send me a PM? Have one quick question. Thanks!
EDIT: I don't need legal advice, lol. Just need confirmation with regards to the Caparo test and psychiatric harm in tort. My mind keeps telling me that I only need to use Alcock and Page v. Smith. But those don't establish duty?
EDIT: I don't need legal advice, lol. Just need confirmation with regards to the Caparo test and psychiatric harm in tort. My mind keeps telling me that I only need to use Alcock and Page v. Smith. But those don't establish duty?
Frank the Great
Banned
i'm clerking at a state trial-level court this upcoming term (1 year only). does anyone have any advice on whether i should try to apply for federal/state supreme clerkships for the following term? is it worth it, or do you think the trial clerkship will be enough to get a job somewhere?
You got a response? Australian law so it'll be similar.
I'm not entirely sure what you're asking but I'll answer on the basis if you're asking how to establish duty in a case of psychiatric harm.
The case of Page v Smith stands for the principle that there are no separate duties of care, just a single duty of care not to cause harm. This is in contrast with the law previously which held that in order to be in breach of causing psychiatric harm, you had to have a duty of care not to cause psychiatric harm specifically.
Is that what you were asking?
So my sister graduates law school in 2 weeks. Anybody who has been through it have a nice, thoughtful gift that they received at graduation that they found helpful/useful as they started practicing? I'm trying to keep it a little low cost (pref < $50 range) since I'm paying for half her Bar Prep already.
If it helps she's going into corp law and will be working in San Fran in the fall after she passes the bar.
If it helps she's going into corp law and will be working in San Fran in the fall after she passes the bar.
Liquor. The first half of her summer is going to suck.
My sister purchased me a fancy pen with a monogrammed case. My mom went to a Things Remembered and got a goofy looking name placard made up, with a scales of justice and "Esq" on it. I put them both on my desk. It's the little things.
Bboy AJ
My dog was murdered by a 3.5mm audio port and I will not rest until the standard is dead
Hire her a designer to make a nice business card.
brucewaynegretzky
Member
My limited exposure to family law has convinced me there is no such thing, just small fiefdoms carved out by family law judges imposing their will on the small population forced to live under their rule.
Thanks for the suggestions. Turns out I know a graphic designer who kind of owes me a favor so this'll probably work out well. I will also get her a nice bottle to accompany the card too.
I don't think anyone would disagree with this description.
If she doesn't have a job, this is a good idea. If she does have a job, then it's a wasted gift (though a good idea), as her firm or company will probably provide her with business cards.
It might be more than you wanted to spend, but I might suggest getting her a frame for her diploma if someone isn't already buying that for her.
brucewaynegretzky
Member
Best thing about being underemployed, borderline alcoholic, and completely unhappy with your professional and personal development?
No finals. And I'm being completely serious.
Frank the Great
Banned
yeah man. environmental law tomorrow, then a zoning take-home exam. already took trusts and estates and consumer law.
then i am done with finals . . . forever!
Very good tips.
Also, for fuck's sake google a bit before you ask a question. Even if you can't find the answer at least you're likely to pick up some background. I don't expect older attorneys to do this, but if you're 30 and under there's zero excuse for not doing this before you ask an attorney or staff member a question. When summers come to me without even taking five minutes to get a bit of background re the agency/department/field of law/regulations the partner/associate has asked them to look into, I immediately know that they're not going to get offers. Laziness and pseudo-helplessness are just not attractive traits in a hire.
Bboy AJ
My dog was murdered by a 3.5mm audio port and I will not rest until the standard is dead
I prefer this approach. It takes 5 minutes of my time for a quick gut check but could save them hours spinning their wheels. But hey, I'm a team player.
The scope of your questioning in depositions is much broader than it is in open court. The general rule is that anything is allowed that is reasonably calculated to lead to discoverable evidence. As with everything, however, this could vary by jurisdiction.
Understand what the "usual stipulations" in your jurisdiction are, so that if or when the court reporter asks "Do the usual stipulations apply?" you can answer intelligently. If you don't know, feel free to ask the court reporter before the deposition begins. Here, the biggest one is that all objects besides form of the question and privilege are waived, which means that the attorney defending the deposition does not have to make a speaking objection to preserve it for the record. When you ask your question, if they find it objectionable, they will (or should) simply say "Object to the form" and then instruct their client to answer.
Not all jurisdictions roll that way, so you need to know what applies where you are practicing law.
Other than that, have fun and expect to be beaten up unless the other attorney is equally inexperienced.
I agree with luxarific. You don't want them wasting "hours," but your time is more valuable than their time, so it's reasonable to expect them to put in some work before hitting you up for help.
It's one thing if you are the assigning attorney and they're asking intelligent questions when you're giving them the assignment, but if they received the assignment from another attorney, they have no business asking even an associate for assistance until they've at least attempted to investigate the problem for themselves.
Well depends on the jurisdiction, but the only objections that are allegedly proper at a deposition are to "form" and privilege. I would brush up on what are "form" objections are and of course your jurisdictions rules and be prepared to move forward with questions unless they instruct their client not to answer on privilege. This is a murky area that some lawyers can get away with making objections that are not really allowed.
Prepare a good outline with topics you want to cover, but don't be a slave to the outline because something unexpected and good may come up you want to cover. Make sure you cover all the topics you want to cover though.
Have your documents organized and ready to be marked. Nothing worse than watching some attorney fumble with documents and wasting everybody's time.
Speak slowly if possible.
Don't be intimidated even if its your first time and DON'T TELL THEM ITS YOUR FIRST TIME. Remember its your deposition.
The above should not be construed as legal advice.
Also, I hate this job sometimes.
Prepare a good outline with topics you want to cover, but don't be a slave to the outline because something unexpected and good may come up you want to cover. Make sure you cover all the topics you want to cover though.
Have your documents organized and ready to be marked. Nothing worse than watching some attorney fumble with documents and wasting everybody's time.
Speak slowly if possible.
Don't be intimidated even if its your first time and DON'T TELL THEM ITS YOUR FIRST TIME. Remember its your deposition.
The above should not be construed as legal advice.
Also, I hate this job sometimes.
Pollux
Member
Saw this on ATL...
Brooklyn Law School will start offering two year JD programs
Honestly, this is a great idea.
Thoughts?
Brooklyn Law School will start offering two year JD programs
Honestly, this is a great idea.
Thoughts?
Frank the Great
Banned
just finished my last law school final.
now i get to enjoy a couple of weeks of relaxing before i start studying for the bar.
now i get to enjoy a couple of weeks of relaxing before i start studying for the bar.
Pollux
Member
just finished my last law school final.
now i get to enjoy a couple of weeks of relaxing before i start studying for the bar.
Congrats. Have 2 more and a paper until 2L year is done.
brucewaynegretzky
Member
This is a great idea.
just finished my last law school final.
now i get to enjoy a couple of weeks of relaxing before i start studying for the bar.
Congrats! And sorry... Someone making a thread this year? Watch out for mre.
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
I did that and got my JD in 2 years.
The problem is that its useless if you don't already have a job lined up because you can't intern with anyone.
Bboy AJ
My dog was murdered by a 3.5mm audio port and I will not rest until the standard is dead
Bad idea except for:
2) foreign-trained lawyers with strong English-language proficiency; 3) individuals with established career plans following law school;
ZackieChan
Member
Right. They're doing this at my school starting next year, but if I had done a 2 year program I would have missed out on a ton of great experience the last two semesters. Perhaps a year of mandatory internship or something like Suffolk does would be better.
Pollux
Member
Just asking for some clarification on a Bankruptcy Code §...
When talking about exemptions from the bankruptcy estate under §522(d) - when talking about the debtor when the "debtor" is a married couple, is the exemption amount doubled?
e.g. in §522(d)(6): "The following property may be exempted under subsection (b)(2) of this section: (6) The debtor's aggregate interest, not to exceed $2,175 in value, in any implements, professional books, or tools, of the trade of the debtor or the trade of a dependent of the debtor."
So if there was a husband and wife, husband a carpenter and the wife a photographer, does that mean that the couple together can only exempt $2,175 worth of "tools of the trade" or that the husband could exempt up to $2,175 worth of carpentry implements/books/tools of the trade and the wife could exempt another $2,175 worth of photography implements/books/tools of the trade for a total of $4,350?
I seem to remember from class that it's the latter and the husband and wife can each deduct $2,175 but I can't find my notes to confirm this.
When talking about exemptions from the bankruptcy estate under §522(d) - when talking about the debtor when the "debtor" is a married couple, is the exemption amount doubled?
e.g. in §522(d)(6): "The following property may be exempted under subsection (b)(2) of this section: (6) The debtor's aggregate interest, not to exceed $2,175 in value, in any implements, professional books, or tools, of the trade of the debtor or the trade of a dependent of the debtor."
So if there was a husband and wife, husband a carpenter and the wife a photographer, does that mean that the couple together can only exempt $2,175 worth of "tools of the trade" or that the husband could exempt up to $2,175 worth of carpentry implements/books/tools of the trade and the wife could exempt another $2,175 worth of photography implements/books/tools of the trade for a total of $4,350?
I seem to remember from class that it's the latter and the husband and wife can each deduct $2,175 but I can't find my notes to confirm this.
Byakuya769
Member
Starting my internship next monday. What do I need to know to get that offer at the end and chill next year?
SlickShoesRUCrazy
Member
family law final tomorrow. Definitely not prepared, been focused on trust and estate for Thursday.
Luckily the professor gave us general ideas of what to expect on the essay haha.
Luckily the professor gave us general ideas of what to expect on the essay haha.
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
The name above appears on the pass list for the February 2013 California Bar Examination.
/flex
/flex
Byakuya769
Member
Awesome, now you can give legal advice with reckless abandon!
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
I see what you did there!
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