Law School & Lawyer GAF

Oh wow thanks to ZackieChan for pointing me here, never knew LawyerGAF existed.

I am taking the CA bar in a little over a month and have totally fallen behind on studying thanks to my procrastination and the World Cup (Go Greece and USA!).

So this next month is gonna be hell.....
 
meanspartan said:
Oh wow thanks to ZackieChan for pointing me here, never knew LawyerGAF existed.

I am taking the CA bar in a little over a month and have totally fallen behind on studying thanks to my procrastination and the World Cup (Go Greece and USA!).

So this next month is gonna be hell.....
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I'm taking Barbri for the NY bar and feel like I'm constantly behind. Hate seeing that progress bar. Everyone I've talked to says the last month is where the real studying takes place, so hopefully we can just push through the next 4 weeks.

Definitely been procrastinating . . . case in point, I'm a longtime lurker. This is like my fifth post ever, decide it's a good idea during the Barbri lecture.
 
meanspartan said:
Oh wow thanks to ZackieChan for pointing me here, never knew LawyerGAF existed.

I am taking the CA bar in a little over a month and have totally fallen behind on studying thanks to my procrastination and the World Cup (Go Greece and USA!).

So this next month is gonna be hell.....
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Also taking the CA bar.

I loathe that day counter on the right on the pace program lol....feels like it said 60 days like just last week lol.
 
SlickShoesRUCrazy said:
Also taking the CA bar.

I loathe that day counter on the right on the pace program lol....feels like it said 60 days like just last week lol.
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Given how I've been half-assing the most important test of my life, I am honestly considering saying "fuck it" and starting over with a 10 hour a day study plan for 30 days. Maybe 3 blocks a day of over 3 hours or so and breaks in between.

My own fault for being a dumbass, but I'm wondering what the best way forward is. I may just try that. I honestly feel like practicing essays is not as helpful for me and is wasting my time. Not cuz I am some really good writer, but because I feel like if I spend enough time studying the actual material and memorizing as much as possible, I will know enough to do well on the essay portion.
 
YoungHav said:
Two quick questions:

I left my old job ("A") for a new job ("B"). I was offered the job April 14, and started April 28. On May 22 my boss informs me she is retiring and closing down the firm on May 30 due to hating the business aspect of running a firm (one of the partners had died during my first week so she had to run it herself). She said she did not know she was closing the firm down when she hired me. Due to my going on vacation, May 22nd was my last day. Do I have any legal recourse against her?
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What legal recourse do you think you have?

How large was the firm? Did you inquire about purchasing the firm's book of business?
I am also on the job hunt, what should I do as far as my resume is concerned? Should I list job B and write in parenthesis "(Firm closed down)" to explain my unemployment or should I not mention job B, and list job A as still being my current employer? It's hard out here for a pimp. Help!
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I would go with your first option. Job "A" isn't your current employer, and if someone calls them to check you out, they'll find out that you haven't worked there since April.
 
meanspartan said:
Given how I've been half-assing the most important test of my life, I am honestly considering saying "fuck it" and starting over with a 10 hour a day study plan for 30 days. Maybe 3 blocks a day of over 3 hours or so and breaks in between.

My own fault for being a dumbass, but I'm wondering what the best way forward is. I may just try that. I honestly feel like practicing essays is not as helpful for me and is wasting my time. Not cuz I am some really good writer, but because I feel like if I spend enough time studying the actual material and memorizing as much as possible, I will know enough to do well on the essay portion.
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Taking the Ohio bar, but this is what I'm planning on doing after the practice MBE next week.

Has anyone else started having bar exam nightmares? Because I'm having them almost nightly now...
 
Pollux said:
Taking the Ohio bar, but this is what I'm planning on doing after the practice MBE next week.

Has anyone else started having bar exam nightmares? Because I'm having them almost nightly now...
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*evil cackle*
 
Question to those in practice.

Is your file management impeccable? I know the standard seems to be every correspondence and document in the file, in chronological order, etc. I'm working at a legal clinic right now and I find myself having difficulties keeping up with all of the administrative demands as well as the substantive file work. Do I need to try harder?
 
iLLmAtlc said:
Question to those in practice.

Is your file management impeccable? I know the standard seems to be every correspondence and document in the file, in chronological order, etc. I'm working at a legal clinic right now and I find myself having difficulties keeping up with all of the administrative demands as well as the substantive file work. Do I need to try harder?
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My files are never perfect. There are times where things slow down for a few days/weeks where I can catch up on organization and the administrative side of things, but then you have those days/weeks when you're putting out fires and there's no time to do anything more than throw a document onto your desk or into the file and deal with it later. It goes in waves.
 
mre said:
What legal recourse do you think you have?

How large was the firm? Did you inquire about purchasing the firm's book of business?

I would go with your first option. Job "A" isn't your current employer, and if someone calls them to check you out, they'll find out that you haven't worked there since April.
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Firm was 3 other attys but we had a big book of business from Allstate and NYC, I had nowhere near the amount of money to buy it. I don't know much about employment law but should she have been required to give more than 8 days notice that the place was closing?

Is it true that you're more likely to get a job offer if you have a job rather than unemployed? I think I might change the resume back to the truthful option... I've already had one interview w/the deceptive resume and I felt like a shithead afterwards for pretending like I was new to that firm's area of law (even though I did that type of work for 3 weeks at job B).
 
iLLmAtlc said:
Question to those in practice.

Is your file management impeccable? I know the standard seems to be every correspondence and document in the file, in chronological order, etc. I'm working at a legal clinic right now and I find myself having difficulties keeping up with all of the administrative demands as well as the substantive file work. Do I need to try harder?
Click to expand...

Get a really good paralegal.
 
YoungHav said:
Firm was 3 other attys but we had a big book of business from Allstate and NYC, I had nowhere near the amount of money to buy it. I don't know much about employment law but should she have been required to give more than 8 days notice that the place was closing?

Is it true that you're more likely to get a job offer if you have a job rather than unemployed? I think I might change the resume back to the truthful option... I've already had one interview w/the deceptive resume and I felt like a shithead afterwards for pretending like I was new to that firm's area of law (even though I did that type of work for 3 weeks at job B).
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You could have at least inquired as to what she thought it would be worth and attempted to enter into a pay over time plan. I mean, if she's just shuttering the door then that is business (and money) just being pissed away.

Unless you have some sort of contract specifying the amount of notice the firm had to give you before you were let go, it doesn't sound like she did anything actionable.
 
FYI for all law students:

If you're given an assignment by a partner (or any attorney, but ESPECIALLY a partner) either (a) do the assignment (most favorable option) or (b) communicate to the partner that you will be unable to finish that assignment and explain why. Never, ever accept an assignment and then just don't do it and pretend as if it didn't exist.
 
I turned down the public defender job, and took a position with my state's attorney general's office. Starting in September, I'm pretty excited to see what it's like to practice law. Clerking has been interesting but damn, I'm ready to move on.

Relatively low salary but dat loan forgiveness and lack of billable hours.
 
Pollux said:
I have never been this pissed off or miserable on my entire life.
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Practice? I'm at a community society right now as a 1L but I know where you're coming from. I don't even know what it is that made me so miserable. It gets a bit better I find as you get more used to it, but the victories are small and I'm counting down to the end of my contract tbh
 
iLLmAtlc said:
Practice? I'm at a community society right now as a 1L but I know where you're coming from. I don't even know what it is that made me so miserable. It gets a bit better I find as you get more used to it, but the victories are small and I'm counting down to the end of my contract tbh
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Are we talking about the same thing? I'm doing bar review
 
Pollux said:
Are we talking about the same thing? I'm doing bar review
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What exactly is pissing you off?

I know everything is horrible right now but maybe take a break tonight and try to recharge. I've taken a few bars and at least for me personally, the last week before the exam is when the most important stuff really started to come together. You're never going to know everything because there is just too much information. I'd recommend doing as many practice essays as you can this week so you're comfortable with the format, and most importantly - so you're comfortable looking for context clues in the fact patterns to comfortably bullshit an answer when you have no idea what the rule statement might be.
 
Question, after a job that you interview for has been filled by another candidate is it unprofessional to contact the employer and inquiry as to why you did not get picked?

I just want honest feedback from interviewers that passed me up. Felt like I rocked some of the ones I've been on and never heard back.
 
YoungHav said:
Question, after a job that you interview for has been filled by another candidate is it unprofessional to contact the employer and inquiry as to why you did not get picked?

I just want honest feedback from interviewers that passed me up. Felt like I rocked some of the ones I've been on and never heard back.
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They probably won't give you any substantive feedback, even if only for liability reasons.
 
commish said:
They probably won't give you any substantive feedback, even if only for liability reasons.
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Hahaha makes sense. "You're a nice guy and all but we don't want to get any mud on our firm, if you catch our drift. Good luck on your future endeavors!"

I think I will schedule a mock interview at my alma matter to see what they think.
 
Does anyone know how long closed down law firms are supposed to keep their records for? I'm trying to get documentation of a 2005 Real Estate transaction from a NY firm that closed down in 2011.
 
YoungHav said:
Does anyone know how long closed down law firms are supposed to keep their records for? I'm trying to get documentation of a 2005 Real Estate transaction from a NY firm that closed down in 2011.
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Seven years. The New York Rules of Professional Conduct specifically provide that the partners of a dissolved firm must make special dispensation to store the records of that firm in compliance with Rule 1.15(d) (which sets forth the seven year requirement):
Upon the dissolution of any firm of lawyers, the former partners or members shall make appropriate arrangements for the maintenance, by one of them or by a successor firm, of the records specified in Rule 1.15(d).
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NYRPC 1.15(h).

Unless those records were related to a client for whom the firm was still doing business in 2011 when it dissolved, I would guess that they are now gone. The firm only had to maintain them through 2012. Your only hope is that they were archived and forgotten about.
 
What's up lawyer Gaffers. I had no idea this was here.

I just took the NY and NJ bar exams (hope I passed) and am feeling super relaxed on my time off right now.

Chillin'.gif


I'll be working in a firm in NYC when I return to reality. It's a pleasure to meet you all!
 
Peltz said:
I'll be working in a firm in NYC when I return to reality. It's a pleasure to meet you all!
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I explained to my legal interns what working at a big firm in NYC is like, some of the horror stories I've heard/experienced through the years, and one of them actually freaked out and starting crying.
 
commish said:
I explained to my legal interns what working at a big firm in NYC is like, some of the horror stories I've heard/experienced through the years, and one of them actually freaked out and starting crying.
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Anything you can share? I love me some legal gossip! :D
 
all top nyc firms have absolutely brutal hours (hope you're a night owl -- it certainly helped me a lot) but I do think they have major differences between them in terms of the work environment. some of this will just come down to which partners you work with but some firms are far more conducive to asshole partners than others. i actually look back very fondly on my 4+ at the firm because of the work environment. meanwhile talking to some of my friends at the other places it was like they were drowning and by year 4 were completely resigned and miserable.
 
AstroLad said:
all top nyc firms have absolutely brutal hours (hope you're a night owl -- it certainly helped me a lot) but I do think they have major differences between them in terms of the work environment. some of this will just come down to which partners you work with but some firms are far more conducive to asshole partners than others. i actually look back very fondly on my 4+ at the firm because of the work environment. meanwhile talking to some of my friends at the other places it was like they were drowning and by year 4 were completely resigned and miserable.
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This is very true, though I think practice group has a lot to do with it as well. If you're doing M&A or finance/debt, you are going to have shitty hours, no way around it. If you specialize more, I think you can carve a better life for yourself.
 
commish said:
This is very true, though I think practice group has a lot to do with it as well. If you're doing M&A or finance/debt, you are going to have shitty hours, no way around it. If you specialize more, I think you can carve a better life for yourself.
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Yep for sure. I'd add capital markets to that pile as well (prob included in your finance category).

When I was starting out they were nice enough to let me do both corp and IP lit (I hadn't had much corp experience as a summer, more competition and privacy). So literally my first six months I would do capmarkets due diligence offsite (usu bank) 8-5 then come back to the office to do litigation work all night. It was ridiculous but gave me lots of good war stories.
 
AstroLad said:
Yep for sure. I'd add capital markets to that pile as well (prob included in your finance category).

When I was starting out they were nice enough to let me do both corp and IP lit (I hadn't had much corp experience as a summer, more competition and privacy). So literally my first six months I would do capmarkets due diligence offsite (usu bank) 8-5 then come back to the office to do litigation work all night. It was ridiculous but gave me lots of good war stories.
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Cap markets seems to be near the top of the list when it comes to worst. The horror stories.. no thanks. I don't think anyone knowingly chooses that practice group. Ever.
 
commish said:
I explained to my legal interns what working at a big firm in NYC is like, some of the horror stories I've heard/experienced through the years, and one of them actually freaked out and starting crying.
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No worries, I'm not at a big law firm.
 
Bboy AJ said:
One of the best business ventures ever. Use the sacred cow of education to secure risk free tax payer dollars. Dirt bags, though. If only people realized this issue a decade ago. Minimum.
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Great article, though the law school boom/scam boosted bottom lines as revenue-generating entities at countless traditional non-profit colleges, too. Law schools are moneymakers. The for-profits are the absolute worst but the problem was far larger than them.

As a slight tangent given the above, driving through the town last week (whatup Bent Spoon), I've always wondered why Princeton didn't have a law school. Would be an annual bonanza moneywise.
 
What's crazy is that article probably understates the situation. Like it would be fascinating to have someone audit that data saying that 41% of New England Law School graduates worked as lawyers within nine months of graduation.
 
Welp, accepted an offer for a pretty nice government attorney position. On one hand, I am glad to finally get a real practicing position given how I passed the bar almost a year ago later September. On the other hand, I did like my ADR job's employees and work environment. But the people at the government seem pretty pleasant to work with too, so there's that.

What I am trying to say is that even if you don't have a job lined up right after law school, just keep trucking. Someone will pick you up at some point.
 
MechaX said:
Welp, accepted an offer for a pretty nice government attorney position. On one hand, I am glad to finally get a real practicing position given how I passed the bar almost a year ago later September. On the other hand, I did like my ADR job's employees and work environment. But the people at the government seem pretty pleasant to work with too, so there's that.

What I am trying to say is that even if you don't have a job lined up right after law school, just keep trucking. Someone will pick you up at some point.
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Awesome!
 
MechaX said:
Welp, accepted an offer for a pretty nice government attorney position. On one hand, I am glad to finally get a real practicing position given how I passed the bar almost a year ago later September. On the other hand, I did like my ADR job's employees and work environment. But the people at the government seem pretty pleasant to work with too, so there's that.

What I am trying to say is that even if you don't have a job lined up right after law school, just keep trucking. Someone will pick you up at some point.
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Awesome news. What sort of government gig?

AstroLad said:
What's crazy is that article probably understates the situation. Like it would be fascinating to have someone audit that data saying that 41% of New England Law School graduates worked as lawyers within nine months of graduation.
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NE Law cooking the books? Hell, I'd like to see Columbia's numbers discounting the "generously" funded post-graduate fellowships.
 
MechaX said:
Welp, accepted an offer for a pretty nice government attorney position. On one hand, I am glad to finally get a real practicing position given how I passed the bar almost a year ago later September. On the other hand, I did like my ADR job's employees and work environment. But the people at the government seem pretty pleasant to work with too, so there's that.

What I am trying to say is that even if you don't have a job lined up right after law school, just keep trucking. Someone will pick you up at some point.
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So great to read good news in this thread.
 
Cagey said:
Awesome news. What sort of government gig?



NE Law cooking the books? Hell, I'd like to see Columbia's numbers discounting the "generously" funded post-graduate fellowships.
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Oh yeah that's what I mean actually. Not NE Law specific, but it being well documented that basically everyone is cooking the books. As a prospective student what do you do? Seems like talk to a variety of recent graduates (and not people spoonfed to you by the school) might be a good way to go.
 
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