DFG gained popularity as more mid play revolved around pushing lanes and roaming. Then people realized/remembered that it was stupidly good and built it on every single AP Mid with little problems.
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League of Legends |OT3| Lizards are red, golems are blue. Give a leash or no gank 4 u
- Thread starter SouthernDragon
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DFG gained popularity as more mid play revolved around pushing lanes and roaming. Then people realized/remembered that it was stupidly good and built it on every single AP Mid with little problems.
Don't care much about IP anymore. I have 10 rune pages almost filled. I could get some situational ones but meh.
I more care about having fun with the game in my limited playing time and this slump is killing me. I haven't gotten to play in almost a week until last night and the games were ugly as heck. A jungler that "doesn't like to gank". His words. Surrender after 20 min. Then I was support and watched my team just completely fail.
Worst part was I did pretty good both games. Just couldn't carry (especially as taric).
I really want to play Zed, but at this point I want to get some wins back. It's frustrating.
I think I'm just going to play support Sona for awhile. If I had normal stats I'd probably be sporting a 75% win rate with her.
It was the perfect AP mid item for awhile. Free additional nuke, cooldown reduction, gp/10 with AP starting item and cheap. There was no reason NOT to get it.
Barrel Cannon
Member
prefer standard varus, hate and thus don't own garen, prefer riot/standard graves, and all those champs I own. ah well. Need more skins!
I'm sure you mean for each minion creep and not champ right? PS I haven't read about all the new items yet.
Oxigen_Waste
Banned
I'm sorry, as much as people like to say otherwise, I just can't agree: Katarina is ridiculously OP. When a single ulti wipes out an entire team unless interrupted, you know something's wrong. I'm sick and tired of that damn Katarina+Fiddlesticks combo that constantly keeps popping up... if fiddles manages to get his silencing working, that's it, there's nothing you can do. Ever.
The cheapest passive in the game, CC, a gap closer and one of the best ultis in the game all in one single champ. And people say she's not OP. How on earth is she not OP? oO
The cheapest passive in the game, CC, a gap closer and one of the best ultis in the game all in one single champ. And people say she's not OP. How on earth is she not OP? oO
Speaking as someone who has played I think 100+ Katarina games in ranked alone (though most of them before the remake):
1. Her ultimate can't wipe out an entire team. It targets a maximum of 3 players. If I recall correctly, with the cooldown adjustments due to the remake, she can get it back to use a second time if four of the enemy team die in a fight.
2. Fiddlesticks landing an ultimate probably requires coordination and/or a good Fiddlesticks and/or a team having bad positioning. I'm not aware of Fiddlesticks being a popular choice at the moment, but maybe that's changing. There are probably a few different strong ultimate combinations (Amumu + Kat ult, or Galio + whatever AOE ults, etc.), but they still require timing and coordination.
3. Katarina doesn't have any CC at all...what do you mean?
4. A HUGE number of champions have abilities that instantly stop Katarina ult. Exhaust will really ramp down Katarina ult damage, and any silence/push/stun/knockup/suppression will instantly cancel it. Before the remake, even more of Katarina's damage purely came from the ult, and because it was so easy to cancel it, Katarina was pretty low-tier and rarely used as far as I'm aware.
She has a relatively poor early game laning phase and her hardest counter in lane (Diana) is an all-round solid champ in general. Her passive lets a fight turn quickly but, conversely, she isn't that big of a deal if she doesn't get a reset. Stopping her ult, which isn't that hard to do, basically means she's just spamming W's until people die. She preys on bad play.
Also, her ultimate cannot kill an entire team. It has a target limit. She also has no CC.
Barrel Cannon
Member
Kat to me seems like a good pub stomp champ. But a coordinated team will always try to save some CC for her. I know I always do.
She's a little OP. But there will always be "OP" champs. It's pretty cyclic that way. She has her counters in lane but is still strong regardless. She snowballs a lot better than a lot of AP mids. A decent Kat player can roll a team pretty well if fed, but the same goes for a lot of champs.
She'll probably get another round of nerfs. Maybe shunpo cooldown or W damage.
It's the way of it. Lower tier champs get remakes that push them up and top tier champs get nerfs. Keeps things interesting.
Yeah, Kat's a bit OP, but a smart team will save some CC for her ult and watch her early-mid game (as with every snowball champ) very closely. Don't let her get fed on you, build MR if you have to, push her lane if she tries to roam and have a player dedicated to stopping her ults and she'll be worthless.
And her ult can only target 3 champs so it can't kill your entire team.
If your support gets pink wards or an early oracle's that can really hurt her roaming too.
I don't usually notice it on all but some champions, like Akali.
And her ult can only target 3 champs so it can't kill your entire team.
If your support gets pink wards or an early oracle's that can really hurt her roaming too.
That's my life. Well, I play on 170-200 ping, but you get the idea.
I don't usually notice it on all but some champions, like Akali.
I pretty much farmpushed my lane to the tower, did /laugh at gangplank then went top, pinged a few times and killed her with amumu helping.
Amumu did ok when it came to killing champs but the poor guy couldn't farm.
I got that Mejai's 16 kills in.
Oxigen_Waste
Banned
She's the only champ I think is truly OP (in the right hands of course). Requires too much attention to be dealt with properly.
My fail on the CC, I mistyped, basically I was refering to her W and Q's multi target nature, was gonna type great farming and somehow wrote CC, lolol.
Usually I agree she's not a problem... I main CC tanks like Shen and Naut so it's usually my job to go and disrupt her and it's easy to disable her. My rage just now was because I was yet again faced a fiddles/kat combo and that one just completely destroys everything because of that damn silence. With naut I have my AAs but he's too damn slow and I end up dying before I get to her everytime (lol).
As for it being able to kill an entire team or not, well, we were just 2v5d by her and a fiddles and fiddles basically died in 1 sec as he was in range of our graves so I cant really say I understand how exactly she killed all of us if the ulti only targets 3 people... She shunpo'd in on our ahri, W->ulti and nobody was left standing on our team by the time her ulti was finished. Her 3 other teamates were dead so it wasn't their Ez's ulti or anything. She died too because either Lee Sin or Graves ignited her, but that's irrelevant. You said the ulti targets 3 people, right? What happens after one of the targets dies? Maybe it targets someone new, no? I ask this because our Ahri and Soraka pretty much died instantly...
She needs to kill/assist 4 guys to get an instantly refreshed ult (level 3 ult), and by then the fight is over. Maybe with basic CDR from the Offense tree you might get away with 3.
But using her ult twice in a teamfight isn't normal, you usually use it to wipe out half the enemy team and then again to clean up survivors that ran long enough for your ult to CD.
Maybe you didn't get to see in the replay or something, but all her other skills' cooldowns get instantly refreshed on a kill/assist, so maybe she just ulted, killed one or two, then jumped around cleaning house.
Her ult's really strong and scales like a motherfucker but will deal around 1k damage per champ (unless she's like MADDINGLY fed), which isn't really enough to kill tanks and whatnot, unless they were already pretty low.
Edit: which is why you don't initiate as Katarina, you just wait for the right moment to shunpo->QWR when you know you're gonna kill someone for sure and be able to get your cooldowns back. In many cases you'll want to just cut your ult earlier so you can chase...
Oxigen_Waste
Banned
I know about her passive, I mentioned it as a reason for her being OP... but she didn't ult again. She E-W-Rd and all 5 of us died. That's it. Fiddles silenced, cast fear on me and just as soon as he started draining graves, graves killed him.
The only possible explanation is that maybe she used her W again just as her ulti ended since Lee Sin was very close to her and I didn't notice it... (but that wouldn't make sense since he was full life at the beginning and was near death at the end of her ult) That and either Soraka or Ahri died as soon as she used her first W before ulting. It happened too fast, lol.
Take into account that I was the only guy on our team who wasn't full or near full life when this fight started. Even though we had just come out of a teamfight with the other 3 champs on their team, our soraka ulti'd after that fight and I was the only one who wasn't full or near full life after it (because I had been taunting the other 3).
Wolf Akela
Member
I know Jax scales much better with items but I still wanted those 6 kills that went to him whenever we gangbang an enemy. I want the gold. /greed
Trying to build WW with more mpen early and phage earlier rather than the old merc-FH-Wits-SV-Mallet. Rushed Sorc Shoes and Phage, grabbed Glacial Shroud and Kindlegem mainly for the CDR then was building Abyssal. I ditched Tenacity since I'm trying to see if Mallet's stickiness can make up for it.
I'm amazed to see people buying wards at this level.
Trying to build WW with more mpen early and phage earlier rather than the old merc-FH-Wits-SV-Mallet. Rushed Sorc Shoes and Phage, grabbed Glacial Shroud and Kindlegem mainly for the CDR then was building Abyssal. I ditched Tenacity since I'm trying to see if Mallet's stickiness can make up for it.
I'm amazed to see people buying wards at this level.
If this is the case and she requires several more rounds of nerfs then I'd almost rather they hadn't done the remake. The obvious conclusion is that Riot is out to personally make me miserable.
However, what you describe was one game. Have you been repeatedly killed by teams trapping you with Fiddlesticks Katarina combination ults recently?
Also Riot, the chat lobby has been broken for like two months (all white names, not correctly showing the ingame status, and you can't invite to game from the chat list, you have to manually right click people). This is clearly of dire importance. D:
Just do the math, 600 at level 3 + 1.75*AP (say she had another 600) = 1650 damage. You can take it to 1800 if she had so much MR reduction that she left you with -20 or something. Even if it's true damage it's not enough to kill anyone that isn't badly hurt to begin with, let alone burst down two so fast that she ended up killing another two.
She probably QEW a couple guys very fast, and Fiddle aided with the damage (his crow hurts pretty bad).
Now I'm intrigued
0% CDR means she needs four kills at any Rank for the instant reset - 60s, 55s, 50s. That last one, however, is only five seconds so ... yeah. 10% CDR means she gets it in three kills guaranteed and it's pretty hard to not have 10% CDR. Unless you don't buy Elixirs.
I hate the use of overpowered for champs. To me, something being OP means that it has nothing (champ wise) to counter it and offers no proper counter play options. Basically, something that just flat out trumps things. I agree that there are champs that harder to deal with (e.g., why Blitzcrank is banned, despite everyone being terrible at him) but that's not really overpowered to me.
It retargets. It's the closest three people.
You can only itemize -20 MR. And it applies before every other form of reduction. Fiddle helps reduce it some more (-10 MR Passive) but it still applies before Penetration.
Fiddle ult deals more damage per second (base) than Katarina. Just worth noting as well. One or two seconds of that with a full Kat ult is a fairly ridiculous amount of damage.
It really helps to install lolreplay and look over/analyze confusing fights after the game if you have time. Speaking of, I should look at some of the team fights from last night as I'm pretty sure I was missing a lot of my ruptures which likely caused us to lose more fights than we should've.
I'm surprised I'm not seeing more Diana. I'm seeing a lot.. but not as many as I see Kats. I almost feel like I'm cheating when I play Diana. A leblanc with the easiest lane clear in the world? Okay!
To me Blitz might be one of the true OP champs. He's the only character I can think of that forces fights in your favor 99% of the time. Any other champ is putting themselves in danger doing the same thing his Q does. A single Q will win late game, and there's not much to do other than just not get hit. You could say the same about an amumu, or malphite ult... but again those are utls.. and you put yourself at a potential unfavorable position. Blitz's is relatively safe (as long as you don't grab an amumu) and low cooldown.
I'm pretty sure I missed every Q I could possibly have thrown that game. If I had landed like 20% of them, we probably would've won honestly. So many fights where I died without bursting my target down. Landing my double/triple Shurikens would've meant I killed Kat or Ez before getting bursted which would've left me available to actually do things.
That's most of the reason why I was so down in chat last night. I royally fucked up that game. It was bad.
Diana and Orianna are like the two safest mid picks right now. I see more Diana than Kat in most our games, really. And every Kat I do see is pretty bad at her in teamfights (randomly EWR in isn't how to Kat; stopping your ult after a reset is usually better than finishing the channel).
Oxigen_Waste
Banned
Nope. I see the Kat fiddles combo somewhat often, but this was the first time I just got completely destroyed by it. We ended up winning nonetheless, but still! Usually it's quite devastating but not this lethal, lol. This isn't something that keeps happening over and over, rest assured lol.
Just do the math, 600 at level 3 + 1.75*AP (say she had another 600) = 1650 damage. You can take it to 1800 if she had so much MR reduction that she left you with -20 or something. Even if it's true damage it's not enough to kill anyone that isn't badly hurt to begin with, let alone burst down two so fast that she ended up killing another two.
She probably QEW a couple guys very fast, and Fiddle aided with the damage (his crow hurts pretty bad).
Now I'm intrigued
No dude, she didn't even Q once. She shunpo'd in, Wd and ultid. Maybe she squeezed in another W after the ulti but even if she did at that point only Lee Sin was standing as he was the last to "die" (he ended up not dying as he had guardian, which denied her the penta lol).
I (Shen) was about at 35-40% health, everyone else was clearly above 90%. We spotted Fiddles in mid lane, ahri charmed and Q'd him, we approached, kata flashed in, shunpo'd to ahri, used her W hitting all of us except Lee Sin, i wanted to taunt her but it was on cooldown as I had just failed using it on fiddles (my bad I know), Lee Sin used his shield on Graves and joined us , at this point fiddles pops his silence kata pops her ult. Ahri dies either as soon as the ulti starts or just before with her W, too fast to tell. Soraka drops like a fly half a second later, I get struck with fear, Graves kills Fiddles, I die, Graves dies and Lee Sin dies. Maybe she popped another W after ulti, but if so it only hit Lee Sin as he was the only one right near her. Guardian Angel takes effect, she dies from someone's ignite, Lee Sin comes back. That's it.
I feel like I'm on Seinfeld describing Keith Hernandez's spit.
Well myth busted then. In other words, this isn't something that's gonna keep happening over and over, they were good but it was still just a fluke.
To be fair, I can QEWR burst down an Ahri in pretty much no time at all, especially if it's a no-Abyssal build. She only has 1820 Health at 18 (and Soraka is worse off at 1650, though she should have Shurelia's and Aegis to get her to over 2000). Late game (e.g., 400 AP) Kat can QEW that Ahri for about ~1000 damage pre-MR before the ult even starts.
Soraka didn't silence the moment Kat Shunpo'd in? Seems more like everyone blew their load on Fiddlesticks (Charm, Taunt, Silence possibly, Lee Sin didn't have ult up?) and then Katarina got to do what she wanted with all the cooldowns unavailable. But, basically, this is how Katarina works. Three squishies (four, depending on the Lee Sin build) and the tank has no health left AND she knows that no cooldowns are available? Yeah, I'd have jumped right the fuck in, 2v5 be damned.
I think I'm going to buy Nocturne for that upcoming skin. Gotta keep adding to my Junglers but never actually play them ever.
I think I need help with my Diana. I see to be able to do nothing good with her :/
lol for some reason my mind went there too.
Oxigen_Waste
Banned
That's where the silencing comes in. Then Fiddles cast fear on me. I did nothing because that's all I could do.
I'm assuming she didn't have it up. Like I said, we had just killed the other 3 on their team. Soraka then ulted and literally 2 seconds later ahri spotted Fiddles coming to the rescue and charmed him. I don't know how long the cooldown on Soraka's E is nor at what level it was but I must assume she didn't have it available, as she was otherwise very reliable. I didn't have my taunt up (because I screwed up) ahri didnt have her charm as she had just used it and Lee Sin didnt have his ult as he'd just popped it a few seconds before.
Other than that it's pretty much how you paint it: I was low on health, 3 silenced squishies and one bruiser, she must've thought it was doable and jumped in. And kudos to her, if it weren't for Lee Sin's Guardian she'd have scored herself a Penta pretty much all by herself (damage wise).
Nonetheless, it was still very infuriating especially when we made no mistakes other then me using the taunt when I shouldn't have.
Pancakes
hot, steaming, as melted butter slips into the cracks, drizzled with sticky sweet syrup OH GOD
Don't bother with Nami, worst champion in the game honestly. Karma is better than she is
.Don't bother with Nami, worst champion in the game honestly. Karma is better than she is
See Pancakes, you're supposed to NOT initially reveal your plan in order for the deception to work. D:
Except curse silently to yourself about CAWCAWCAW and bullshit fears. Because Fiddlesticks.
CAWCAWCAW.
10s, regardless of rank. Assuming she has appropriate CDR at this point, she should have pretty close to 40% CDR, it's a pretty short cooldown (6-7s).
Or if she had her own GA.
Don't bother with Nami, worst champion in the game honestly. Karma is better than she is
Karma walk op
Pancakes
hot, steaming, as melted butter slips into the cracks, drizzled with sticky sweet syrup OH GOD
But you see it IS part of my plan. People will decide to play Nami every game while I will get to play super OP remade Karma!
I like Rengar a lot. I get shit for playing him though. Even after nerfs he's still pretty potent.
thestopsign
Member
I fell pretty hard in the placements but I find it pretty easy to carry myself out of the 1300s so far. Back up to 1460 already. Getting wins from Shyv, Panth, Twisted Fate, and Cait.
R
Retro_
Unconfirmed Member
Anyone know of any good jungling resources?
^^
The oddone is great to watch to learn some jungling thinking. He's not the most creative with builds or the best mechanically but he has great commentary and his "game sense" as Boken put it is fantastic.
Oddone streaming now:
http://www.solomid.net/livestream.php?s=2720
stonewall008:
http://www.youtube.com/user/stonewall008
http://www.solomid.net/livestream.php?s=2720
stonewall008:
http://www.youtube.com/user/stonewall008
This sounds immensely helpful, thanks.
Also, dam dat Sona skin tempting me, just when I cashed my paycheck.
Pancakes
hot, steaming, as melted butter slips into the cracks, drizzled with sticky sweet syrup OH GOD
ADC Teemo is freelo.
Arcade Sona is a neat skin. Surprised it wasn't more expensive than usual.
Barrel Cannon
Member
shhhhh don't give them ideas
Yeah wtf dude, now I REALLY have to buy it.
Few ways to get people to actually play that damn boring character.
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