I don't know where you're getting a potential can't from a basic negative but well somewhat literally that last part means "I will not choose a means, way, measure, method, etc." The trick with that idiom or phrase is that not choosing in the scenario doesn't mean inactivity or doing nothing, it means taking ALL the methods, measures, actions, whatever. Like you're not even going to waste time considering what to do morally or otherwise because you're going to take whatever action works and damn the consequences.
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I don't know where you're getting a potential can't from a basic negative but well somewhat literally that last part means "I will not choose a means, way, measure, method, etc." The trick with that idiom or phrase is that not choosing in the scenario doesn't mean inactivity or doing nothing, it means taking ALL the methods, measures, actions, whatever. Like you're not even going to waste time considering what to do morally or otherwise because you're going to take whatever action works and damn the consequences.
LiveFromKyoto
Member
Ah...I see; it comes down to reading the verb as future tense.
I was reading it as present tense, the potential was me taking a bit of license with the translation - personalizing the "the means are undecided" part. I was interpreting an inability on the part of the speaker there. I might also have gone with an implicit "not yet" - reading that the means are presently undecided, but may be in the future.
I hadn't come across this as idiomatic for a 'will not rule anything out' type of phrase, but I'll put it in the memory bank, thanks.
Splash Wave
Member
I'm having an extremely hard time studying Japanese without the aid of a class. Can anyone else share their plan of attack for doing so? I have a few of the big textbooks, but I'm having a hard time transcending the early stuff--I know some basic grammar + hiragana/katakana, but I stop just short of really figuring verbs out or attempting Kanji.
I know I'll never gain fluency this way, but I seem to be going to Japan often enough that I want to be more comfortable with the language when I go back again.
I know I'll never gain fluency this way, but I seem to be going to Japan often enough that I want to be more comfortable with the language when I go back again.
what's your approach?
mine is to treat it like an actual class. So like assuming you're starting with Genki, my approach was:
- work through the dialogue & learn the chapter's vocab
- read the grammar lessons twice
- do the practice grammar in the book
- do the chapter's workbook exercises
- do the listening/reading comp section in the back
On thing I wish I had done when I was doing the Genki books, but didn't: play both parts of the pair work sections.
I have a lot of other learning streams going on at the same time as the text (websites, anki decks, books, etc.) and they are all reinforcing. Study every day, keep moving forward.
I've found the biggest challenges to solo learning are (1) no teacher to ask clarifying questions (so I ask my dumb questions here) and (2) no constant practice of the basics so it can be hard remembering old concepts if later chapters aren't re-inforcing them.
Forgot to say thanks for this when I read it.
After getting the bare basics from Genki and the Tae Kim site, what worked for me was doing Anki and the Asahi Kanji app/site for like an hour a day, the Dictionary of Basic/Intermediate/Advanced Japanese Grammar series (these might be available online in pdf format now if you just can't find a physical copy) for the real basics, using the rikaikun plugin in Chrome in tandem with spelling out words I'm unsure of in google translate (kanji knowledge is a must for this), and working up from children's oriented entertainment like games and manga that still feature some degree of kanji to more advanced material and JDramas.
If you're still on the textbook phase I would definitely still recommend the grammar dictionaries because they're absolutely brimming with translated example sentences (which are a must early on when finding material to read can be so daunting) and explain concepts and structures introduced in stuff like Genki in much greater and clearer detail.
If you're still on the textbook phase I would definitely still recommend the grammar dictionaries because they're absolutely brimming with translated example sentences (which are a must early on when finding material to read can be so daunting) and explain concepts and structures introduced in stuff like Genki in much greater and clearer detail.
1) Get through one of the shorter basic grammar courses (eg. http://www.guidetojapanese.org/learn/grammar).
2) Get your hands on a (digital) dictionary of some form.
3) Read lots and lots, make sure to challenge reading things you're actually interested in/care for and to look up everything you come across you don't know or remember
TheSporkWithin
Member
You might want to take a look at this. I can't vouch for the English version specifically, but the Japanese one is utterly fantastic.
Thanks - as it happens I am about to place an order from amazon.jp so perfect timing
Someone made an imgur "look inside" for the book, definitely buying a copy. Seems just like what I want.
http://imgur.com/a/TNJ8J
http://imgur.com/a/TNJ8J
Übersandvich
Member
At the moment I use visual novels and the web to read in Japanese. I have a japanese novel and the official translated work. I am wondering if anyone knows any tips or tricks if reading side-by-side, especially to stay 'in sync'? Stuff like numbering lines and/or paragraphs with a pen?
D
Deleted member 17706
Unconfirmed Member
I don't think it's going to be that helpful for you, honestly. There is always some degree of subjectivity to any translation. It might be a good idea as research for someone looking to work in localization, but I don't think it would be very productive as a way to learn Japanese.
based on how Jay Rubin talks about his process of translation (which sounds a lot like the rewriting sub-story in 1Q84, honestly), i tend to agree with Zefah.
But if you're really in to it, side-by-side books designed for the purpose might be a decent start: this one has Mishima, Tanizaki and other famous authors: https://www.amazon.com/dp/1568365411/?tag=neogaf0e-20
Kodansha had a series of side by side fact books that were published many years ago; I bought a couple but didn't really find it that useful. Maybe I'll come back to them one day. Here's the Tofugu article on those books.
But if you're really in to it, side-by-side books designed for the purpose might be a decent start: this one has Mishima, Tanizaki and other famous authors: https://www.amazon.com/dp/1568365411/?tag=neogaf0e-20
Kodansha had a series of side by side fact books that were published many years ago; I bought a couple but didn't really find it that useful. Maybe I'll come back to them one day. Here's the Tofugu article on those books.
Are there any apps on iOS like that let you learn in context? I am really fond of www.readthekanji.com but it seems to be stalled in development.
I use "Flashcards" for vocabulary and kanji but I need something that brings words in context.
I dont need the approach of WaniKani with mnemonics. Just pure 暗記 is enough.
Any suggestions?
I use "Flashcards" for vocabulary and kanji but I need something that brings words in context.
I dont need the approach of WaniKani with mnemonics. Just pure 暗記 is enough.
Any suggestions?
Übersandvich
Member
I simply use it as a crutch until I am used to the author's writing style and the torrent of new words that come with a new author, then I do away with it when I feel comfortable. Admittedly, reading in parallel is slow and awkward.
Currently truing to read Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone in Japanese. I figure it'd be good practice as I've read it in English, writing down words I don't know. Might be a little difficult for me but it's kind of fun. I need to brush up and start learning again.
LeroyPantwether
Member
Can I get some help with a sentence please.
"Because of how effective it is, I think cram school should be more widely encouraged in America. "
I'm particularly confused at the bolded. Im not sure how to make suggestions regarding a national agenda.
Here's my sad guess...
とても効果的だから、アメリカに塾に勧めると思います
"Because of how effective it is, I think cram school should be more widely encouraged in America. "
I'm particularly confused at the bolded. Im not sure how to make suggestions regarding a national agenda.
Here's my sad guess...
とても効果的だから、アメリカに塾に勧めると思います
Can I ask for a bit of help on checking something please?
I'm taking the ostensibly pretty easy Japanese GCSE (British qualification) this summer; I theoretically know more than I need to for the exam and it's more a case of being out of practice than anything. The reading and listening shouldn't be much of a problem, and the writing should be okay because the topics are relatively narrow for what you write about; however, I'm very nervous about the speaking exam, which is next week.
I have to give a very short (1-2 minute) presentation which I then get asked questions on (as well as doing a 4-5 minute general conversation, which I can't prepare too much for and will just have to hope I don't panic about). I don't get much chance to practice spoken Japanese these days and, even when I did have lessons a few years back, I never got much of a chance to say more than a sentence at a time. I'm also twice the age of most people who do GCSEs!
I've written the following so far and I was hoping someone could check if it has any egregious grammatical errors please? I haven't even touched Google Translate so any ridiculous mistakes are my own...
I've tried not to use too much "dictionary vocab" so some of it is written in hiragana instead of kanji or might not be phrased quite right; I'm also trying to make sure I cram in as many of the "ambitious grammar points" from the exam syllabus as possible which is quite hard. Topic is "my favourite book", which I have to mention at the start.
私の一番大好きな本は「私を離さないで」と言います。イギリスで「ネバー・レット・ミー・ゴ」と言います。11年前の大学の勉強が終わった時には、私初めて読みましたが、物語は面白くて、不思議で、ずっとかなしいだと思いますから、今まだ大好きなのです。
物語は女の人のキャシーについてです。本の始まりに、キャシーは学生で、田舎の学校で勉強しています。しかし、その学校はあまり普通じゃありません。本の世界に、人間をクローンすることができますから。キャシーも学校の友達もクローン人間です。クローン人間は科学者に使うに生まれましたから、死ぬ前にとても難しい生活があります。
(I then want a paragraph of some kind to sum it up that somehow shoves in たりform, maybe some negative adjectives in present and past, adverbs of some kind maybe...)
I've also got to come up with some questions that I can actually answer on this; so far I have クローンしてはいけないと思いますか？ and need to come up with some more...
Thanks in advance for any help anyone can provide!
I'm taking the ostensibly pretty easy Japanese GCSE (British qualification) this summer; I theoretically know more than I need to for the exam and it's more a case of being out of practice than anything. The reading and listening shouldn't be much of a problem, and the writing should be okay because the topics are relatively narrow for what you write about; however, I'm very nervous about the speaking exam, which is next week.
I have to give a very short (1-2 minute) presentation which I then get asked questions on (as well as doing a 4-5 minute general conversation, which I can't prepare too much for and will just have to hope I don't panic about). I don't get much chance to practice spoken Japanese these days and, even when I did have lessons a few years back, I never got much of a chance to say more than a sentence at a time. I'm also twice the age of most people who do GCSEs!
I've written the following so far and I was hoping someone could check if it has any egregious grammatical errors please? I haven't even touched Google Translate so any ridiculous mistakes are my own...
I've tried not to use too much "dictionary vocab" so some of it is written in hiragana instead of kanji or might not be phrased quite right; I'm also trying to make sure I cram in as many of the "ambitious grammar points" from the exam syllabus as possible which is quite hard. Topic is "my favourite book", which I have to mention at the start.
私の一番大好きな本は「私を離さないで」と言います。イギリスで「ネバー・レット・ミー・ゴ」と言います。11年前の大学の勉強が終わった時には、私初めて読みましたが、物語は面白くて、不思議で、ずっとかなしいだと思いますから、今まだ大好きなのです。
物語は女の人のキャシーについてです。本の始まりに、キャシーは学生で、田舎の学校で勉強しています。しかし、その学校はあまり普通じゃありません。本の世界に、人間をクローンすることができますから。キャシーも学校の友達もクローン人間です。クローン人間は科学者に使うに生まれましたから、死ぬ前にとても難しい生活があります。
(I then want a paragraph of some kind to sum it up that somehow shoves in たりform, maybe some negative adjectives in present and past, adverbs of some kind maybe...)
I've also got to come up with some questions that I can actually answer on this; so far I have クローンしてはいけないと思いますか？ and need to come up with some more...
Thanks in advance for any help anyone can provide!
have you thought about any of the sites like italki? ive never used them but was considering them myself as a way to at least get some speaking practise in .
Unless you're willing to pay a tutor on italki, don't get your hopes up.
yeh i was. $25/hr seems alright once a week. has anyone done it? i dont see any other way to get one on one speaking practise otherwise.
TheSporkWithin
Member
Looks mostly good at first glance. If this were off the top of your head speaking I think most people would be pretty forgiving of these sorts of mistakes (I do this sort of stuff all the time). If it's supposed to be an edited speech there's some stuff I'd clean up.
私の一番大好きな本は「私を離さないで」です。 I don't think という is really appropriate here. Also nitpicky, but the next line should be いいます, not 言います - the kanji is only used when actually quoting spoken speech.
11年前、大学の勉強が終わった時に初めて読みましたが、物語は面白くて、不思議で、そして、とてもかなしいだと思いますから、今でも大好きなのです。 The framing of the time was a little unclear, and you don't need the personal pronoun. Sadness is not directly related to the mysterious and interesting qualities, so you need some sort of a transitional word in between. Finally, 今でも is just more natural here, I think.
物語は女の人のキャシーについてです。本の始まりに、キャシーは高校生で、田舎の学校で勉強しています。As I recall, Hailsham is a high-school level boarding school? Might actually be middle school (which would call for 中学生
. 学生 is generally understood to mean college student unless it's made clear elsewhere.You may also want to rephrase this using the word 主人公, meaning "main character." As it is now it's clear enough but a bit unnatural/awkward. Something like この本の主人公は、キャシーという女の人です。
本の世界には、人間をクローンすることができるからです。I think this works better with a contrastive には, and I think the explanation is more natural with からです instead of ですから. This is mostly gut feeling though, I could be wrong.
クローン人間は科学者に使われるために作られましたので、死ぬ前の時期とても難しい生活があります。
The original sentence was a bit unclear, but I think you're trying to say that "clones were born in order to be used by scientists." You have to be careful to keep the clones as the subject of the verbs here. Finally, I think your meaning is more clear if you specify "the period of time before their death" instead of just "before their death."
I'm not actually sure myself. If I was talking with coworkers or something I'd say アメリカでも普及したらいいなと思います。 Literally "I think it'd be nice if they spread/became normal in America," since it's not really anything that you have any connection to or control over.
Sakura
Member
If I were writing it, I might write something like:
私の一番好きな本は、「私を離さないで」という本です。
初めて読んだのは、１１年前、大学を卒業した頃です。(I assume when you are saying your university studies ended, you mean you graduated).
面白くて不思議な、とても悲しい物語ですから、今でも大好きなままです。
キャシーという女の子についての物語です。本の始めでは田舎の学校で勉強しています。しかしその学校は普通の学校ではありません。本の世界では、人間のクローンを作る事ができて、キャシーと他の学生はクローン人間です。クローン人間は科学者に使われるために作られたのだから、死ぬまでとても難しい生活を送るのです。
Not really sure on the last part. When you say 死ぬ前に are you meaning right before they die, or up until they die? 死ぬ前に would mean before you die, but you say 生活 which makes me assume their life until that point. Also I am not familiar with the contents of the book but maybe 厳しい生活 or something would be better than 難しい, if you are trying to say they have a difficult life.
Thank you very much for corrections to my poor Japanese! I'll take all of the comments on board in rewriting.
Thanks again!
Yup - I'd forgotten I knew 卒業 when I wrote this and was aiming for a past tense plus 時 type clause.
I wanted to say up until they die; the bodies are used as organ donors but I would have no idea how to say that without looking it up which didn't seem like the point. I didn't know 厳しい as a piece of vocab so thanks for the suggestion.
It's supposed to "sound" spontaneous; I can't take the speech in with me, just some key words to remind me what to say. I don't want to get things wrong, though!
I don't need to use という (it's not set grammar for GCSE, although と思う is) so I'll go for something more accurate - thanks.
I had put そして at first to link the ideas but wasn't confident it was right as I'd never written it, only heard it, used like that. Thanks for the other corrections.
It's probably a middle school, you're right (Cathy and co go to the Cottages I think when they're around 16?) - I'd just call it "secondary school" as part of the British system, and I guess that's the closest approximation.物語は女の人のキャシーについてです。本の始まりに、キャシーは高校生で、田舎の学校で勉強しています。As I recall, Hailsham is a high-school level boarding school? Might actually be middle school (which would call for 中学生
Damn it, I knew that piece of vocab! Thanks...
Exactly right. Particles and so forth are the death of me
Thanks again!Yup - I'd forgotten I knew 卒業 when I wrote this and was aiming for a past tense plus 時 type clause.
I wanted to say up until they die; the bodies are used as organ donors but I would have no idea how to say that without looking it up which didn't seem like the point. I didn't know 厳しい as a piece of vocab so thanks for the suggestion.
It's pidgin Japanese. There's actually a thread about that picture on NeoGAF.
TheSporkWithin
Member
The general advice is to click and drag that software into the trash.
Really though, you're much better off with an actual textbook or course. Rosetta stone really doesn't work well for Japanese at all. If you want a self-contained app to start with while you get comfortable with the language, Human Japanese (available on smart devices or PC) is probably the best, though it's not as intensive and won't get you the same results as buckle-down study with a textbook and paper (or a whiteboard) will.
Sakura
Member
I could be wrong, but I don't think 難しい works the same way in Japanese as English. 難しい is more difficult to do something, where as you are probably wanting to say they have a hard life. Instead of 厳しい you could maybe use 苦しい if you know that word.
Thanks for the advice!
I knew it wasn't my imagination that Rosetta was making Japanese way harder than it should. I've downloaded Human Japanese and I've learned more in a 30 minute train ride than two stalled Rosetta attempts.
I'm going to order either Genki or Japanese for Busy People as well.
Thanks again.
Mail day! (Amazon Japan / DSL is amazing)
Got the Handbook that Spork recommended plus the Rapid Reading Japanese book.
The grammar Handbook is, at a glance, amazing and just what I wanted. No romaji and it's organized according standard Japanese あ＊か＊さ＊た
Let me know if anyone has any questions about this english edition.
Also very excited about the RRJ book; I think I'm still not quite at the level to really benefit but it's a practical guide to reading many different kinds of texts, plus learning to skim and read faster.
Got more Nisioisin novels to motivate me to get good enough to read.
Got the Handbook that Spork recommended plus the Rapid Reading Japanese book.
The grammar Handbook is, at a glance, amazing and just what I wanted. No romaji and it's organized according standard Japanese あ＊か＊さ＊た
Let me know if anyone has any questions about this english edition.
Also very excited about the RRJ book; I think I'm still not quite at the level to really benefit but it's a practical guide to reading many different kinds of texts, plus learning to skim and read faster.
Got more Nisioisin novels to motivate me to get good enough to read.
Just 2800 yen, so cheaper than any of the individual grammar dictionaries.
(of course there's shipping costs too, but I had a large order of other stuff so it wasn't as big a deal)
https://www.amazon.co.jp/gp/product/4874246788/
BlazingDarkness
Member
Hi GAF, can I get a wee translation from you?
私らしさ
I know the meaning, but I'm wracking my brain to think of a natural sounding translation
For context, it's the name of an 'ending notebook' (a kind of less formal will people use to write about their lives/memories)
私らしさ
I know the meaning, but I'm wracking my brain to think of a natural sounding translation
For context, it's the name of an 'ending notebook' (a kind of less formal will people use to write about their lives/memories)
D
Deleted member 17706
Unconfirmed Member
A title? Man, there could be any number of ways to translate that concept.
Being Myself
Being Me
What It Means to Be Me
Who I Am
My Way
etc. etc.
Hard to say without knowing the concrete details of what is described in the text.
BlazingDarkness
Member
These look good, I'm thinking of grabbing these. What was the total cost and how long did it take them to ship?Mail day! (Amazon Japan / DSL is amazing)
Got the Handbook that Spork recommended plus the Rapid Reading Japanese book.
The grammar Handbook is, at a glance, amazing and just what I wanted. No romaji and it's organized according standard Japanese あ＊か＊さ＊た
Let me know if anyone has any questions about this english edition.
MadJackChurchill
Banned
Losing my mind here. Locked into the 新完全マスター series for N2 but it's sooooooooooo dull. Every book is just a goddamned list. No real examples of usage with helpful illustrations or diagrams. Just a list. What boring salary man thought "ahhh yes, THIS is how you teach a language!"?
Any one have any activities for N2 that can spicen things up/allow me to apply the materials in a real world context? It's only a matter of time before I die from lack of stimulation.
Any one have any activities for N2 that can spicen things up/allow me to apply the materials in a real world context? It's only a matter of time before I die from lack of stimulation.
If you're around N2, couldn't you just try to read native material? Then just do like 2 grammar points from 新完全マスター a day. Even of it's presented in a boring way, doing 10 min of it / day shouldn't be too hard.
MadJackChurchill
Banned
Already read a fair few news stories on NHK News Easy. The required grammar points aren't often used though. Do you have any other materials you could suggest?
I'm not even N3 so not really sorry :/
Wouldn't NHK easy be a bit too... easy for you by now though? I've only read a couple of articles on there but the grammar seems to stay pretty simple usually since it's aimed at kids.
Isn't there a reading book in the kanzen master series though? That should have appropriate grammar and vocabulary for your level.
Otherwise you could try jumping in and trying to read something like a book maybe.
TheSporkWithin
Member
Literally anything that holds your interest. If you're prepping for N2 you should have the foundation to push through most things as long as you have the willpower. At that point I was playing the Ace Attorney games in Japanese, and reading regular novels (of course I had made reading a focus and started reading really easy stuff earlier on).
Pick up a novel, a collection of short stories, or even just some magazines or blogs, and just start reading.
In terms of stuff I've read that should be good for that level:
ペンギン・ハイウェイ by 森見 登美彦: a story about a precocious elementary school student who performs research on the strange goings-on in his small town, beginning with the flock of penguins which mysteriously appear one day, and then vanish after having been rounded up.
告白 by 湊 かなえ: A junior high school teacher's elementary-school-age daughter drowns in the junior high school's swimming pool. It's declared an accident, but the mother is convinced that it was murder and she knows the killer. A long, spiraling story of revenge and regret with five different narrators.
コンビニ人間 by 村田 沙耶香: won the Akutagawa Prize last year. A story about finding one's place in life, narrated by a woman who has worked happily at the same convenience store for 18 years, half of her life. It's not directly stated, but I read the story with the distinct impression that she has Asperger syndrome.
５分後に意外な結末 series: a collection of short stories targeting young readers (age 10 - 15 or so). Supposed to be five minute reads, but of course they'll take longer for non-natives. They all have twist endings, and are generally pretty snappily written. The first book is called 赤い悪夢.
Is there anything in particular that you wanted to read that motivated you to learn japanese?
MadJackChurchill
Banned
Wasn't really into it for the reading. Much preferred to talk with people in my neighbourhood.
But I really appreciate the suggestions, Spork. Have just bought some of them on Kindle.
BudokaiMR2
Member
I actually have something similar to that. It was a book handed out by the Navy to my great-grandfather who was here during the occupation. I should really get around to scanning that book and putting it online.
It obviously has some funny stuff like that, along with lots of completely racist comments and advice scattered through the text.
5400 yen for both books (the link for the grammar handbook is above, here's the link for RRJ: https://www.amazon.co.jp/gp/product/4789015181/). Shipping is super fast - amazon.jp only offers DHL as an international option and it got to me on the east coast of the US in two days. Cost varies on that though, I had several other books in the order and it ended up getting split so shipping ended up pricey at 2000. Shipping for one or two books *tends* to be close to 1000 yen but it will depend on weight.
man, i can only imagine. sounds like a really cool historical text though.
SomethingWitty
Member
Hello. I was wondering if anyone has experience thinks if SGJL, a series of courses from Memrise https://community.memrise.com/t/course-forum-suggested-guide-for-japanese-literacy-sgjl-course-series/1100, is effective for learning from a beginner's standpoint. I started using this today, supplemented with Tae Kim's guide and WaniKani.
I tried the textbook format (i.e. self-studying from Genki and Cal's Elementary Japanese Volume 1 textbook) but I find it difficult to study from.
Should I continue with the SGJL, Tae Kim, WaniKani trifecta or go through the traditional method of using a textbook again?
I tried the textbook format (i.e. self-studying from Genki and Cal's Elementary Japanese Volume 1 textbook) but I find it difficult to study from.
Should I continue with the SGJL, Tae Kim, WaniKani trifecta or go through the traditional method of using a textbook again?
whatever youre most likely to enjoy and stick with imo.