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Learning Japanese

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Ruzbeh

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Ok. I wanna learn some Japanese.

Soooo. I wanna take classes because I don't think I can do it all by myself, maybe I can, not sure. How long does it take to learn Japanese? Like, how many years? Aaaaaand. Is it, like, expensive getting taught Japanese? And how did you learn Japanse?

kthx :)
 
I've been studying semi-seriously for about 4 months, I know about 500 words so far and I'm getting increasingly familiar with katakana/hiragana. I've just been using a dictionary. I'm still a long way from mastering it, but the "picture" is slowly coming together and I'm having fun learning.
 
Possible to become a near native or native level in a few months. Of course, you need to study like 24/7. The reason it takes years is because people study only a small portion of the day per day.

Learning a language is not hard but time-consuming. Same for any other subjects. Some take longer time to learn than others.


Level Kanji Words Conversation Hours of study
4 ~100 ~800 Simple ~150
3 ~300 ~1,500 Everyday ~300
2 ~1000 ~6,000 Near-native ~600
1 ~2000 ~10,000 Native ~900
 
In September of 1996 I joined college and took JAPAN 101. After 2 years of that I got along in Japan just fine, and after studying abroad in Japan for another year I was good enough that level 1 of the Japanese language proficiency test was a breeze.

I would say that you should start right out with memorizing the kana sets and getting them down, even before you learn any words or anything, because it makes future vocabulary expansion a lot easier.
 
a%20dictionary%20of%20basic%20japanese%20grammar.jpg


For a beginner, this is your bible.
 
My father-in-law learnt it the hard way, he memorised the entire Japanese dictionary whilst he was over there studying in Tokyo Uni.
 
I'm actually very interested in learning Japanese and Italian...i know Spanish and Italian is similar so hopefully it should take to long...

DCX
 
Ok. Thanks. I guess I should get some books or something.

Could you people divide the difficulty up or something? Like, the most difficult part gets the most percentage points. For example, grammar 40%, pronounciation 20%, spelling 10%, which all make up 100%. Pronounciation is my strong point. If I hear something I can just copy it and pronounce it directly :) So I'm hoping pronounciation is the hardest in Japanese so I'll be able to learn it faster.
 
Speaking and limited writing (hiragana and katakana) are relatively easy. Note that I'm not mentioning the polite form of speaking is a total bitch and I am totally not going there.


Now if you are wanting to learn Japanese to play Japanese games (like most people at GAF would I imagine) you are in for your worst nightmare:

KANJI.

I hate it. You hate it, every gaijin hates it. So do Japanese students.


Now, some games have very little (usually for younger audiences, or games aimed at a broad audience) and the really really nice games give you hiragana options (see: Paper Mario). But games like Fire Emblem OH DEAR GOD THE KANJI. IT RAPES MY EYES.

It ends up something like this:

Word I can read, KANJI KANJI KANJI KANJI KANJI KANJI, Partial word, KANJI KANJI KANJI.

Now I've learned some, but christ on a fucking bicycle I HATE KANJI. Voice acted games are much easier for myself to understand.

Note: this is your only hope.
 
Try checking out books at your local libraries first. Also browse, but not necessarily buy, books at Barnes and Nobles or Waldenbooks or whereever. There really isn't a good beginner's book. Otherwise, there would have been a nation wide adoption of a particular book for classes.
 
If you're concerned about proper pronunciation, you might want to check your local library for Japanese language tapes/CD's. I'm working with the full Pimsleur Japanese set right now, having ripped them to my iPod, and I find it helpful. Still, you'll need a good book to work alongside your audio studies.
 
Ruzbeh said:
Ok. I wanna learn some Japanese.

Soooo. I wanna take classes because I don't think I can do it all by myself, maybe I can, not sure. How long does it take to learn Japanese? Like, how many years? Aaaaaand. Is it, like, expensive getting taught Japanese? And how did you learn Japanse?

kthx :)

Good news - learning Japanese is do-able. Especially if you can do it in Japan.

Bad news - To pull off any level of intermediate fluency, you need at least a 6 months of an intensive program, or 1-2 years of daily classroom study in a college environment. I work in translation, and everyone on my team (ages 23 (me) to 30 (my boss)) has studied Japanese for at least 5 years. In fact, everyone I know who works at a "real" Japanese company has at least 4-5 years of study behind them (not counting english teachers).

My advice is to either enroll in intensive classes in Japan, study abroad in Japan, or connect with a local Japanese society that will provide you numerous opportunities to speak and listen. Limited exposure in a classroom is not enough to cut any level of low-intermediate fluency for a variety of reasons.

Finally - evaluate why you want to learn Japanese, and how serious you are about it. The typical anime otaku will last through 2 years of college courses before giving up. They come to the realization that the level of understanding needed is not worth the amount of effort required. Around 150-200 people took Japanese I at my university. Half that continued to Level II. A quarter that continued to Level III. There were 8 people in my advanced 4th year reading/translation seminar. The weedout process is vicious, and learning an east asian language from an american english background is a tough thing to do.

Beginner books I recommend, if you hire a private tutor and want to select a text yourself, are the Genki series published by the Japan Times (and made at Kansai Gaidai, where I studied abroad) as well as the Yookoso! series we used at UF. Genki is a little bit easy to understand. I recommend a college textbook shop as a great place to pick these up outside of Amazon.com. The grammar book linked earlier is also quite good, as are some of the dual language manga once you attain a level of at least 300 kanji.

It should take you no longer than 3-5 weeks of an hour a day study to get down katakana and hiragana. If you cant pull that off, you should be studying harder, because your retention level will never be there when it counts (kanji).
 
Dragona Akehi said:

Negative ghostrider. The best beginner Kanji dictionary is Kodansha's Learners by Jack Halpern. It uses an alternative to radical lookup called SKIP that makes life easier for learners by identifying shapes instead of radicals.

As far as the comment that there is no good beginners book. That is correct, if you go by the bullshit foreign language section of a barnes n nobles or borders. If you get Genki I, I think you would be pleasantly surprised.

AVOID JAPANESE FOR BUSY PEOPLE LIKE THE PLAGUE!
 
NotMSRP said:
You should master hiragana and katakana in two days at most.

:lol :lol :lol :lol

Pedagogically speaking, that is wishful thinking. While doable, I doubt one would retain the recall ability on two alternative ways of writing a completely new syllabary learned over the span of two days. Sure you could cram it in two days, but your recall ability would be absolutely shit.
 
Japanese is fucking hard to learn. I gave up before I started. Too much shit going on depending on the position of the stars and what you had for breakfast and how old the person youre talking to is.
 
tetsuoxb said:
:lol :lol :lol :lol

Pedagogically speaking, that is wishful thinking. While doable, I doubt one would retain the recall ability on two alternative ways of writing a completely new syllabary learned over the span of two days. Sure you could cram it in two days, but your recall ability would be absolutely shit.
I actually learned katakana in a little over a day. I had a great instructor.
 
MrAngryFace said:
Too much shit going on depending on the position of the stars and what you had for breakfast and how old the person youre talking to is.

MAF QUOTE OF THE YEAR :lol

Seriously, get as much practice as you can. The classroom is not enough. You need to practice conversation, reading, and writing outside of class. Going to Japan after 2 years or so is probably the best way, so do that if you can. If you can't, I suggest hating yourself and bitching about your lack of fluency on GAF.

It works for me!
 
MrAngryFace said:
Japanese is fucking hard to learn. I gave up before I started. Too much shit going on depending on the position of the stars and what you had for breakfast and how old the person youre talking to is.

ROFL and so true.

Japanese people use seven word phrases to refer to themselves because it is rude to say "me" or "I" without including some sort of self deprecating comment.
 
tetsuoxb said:
Negative ghostrider. The best beginner Kanji dictionary is Kodansha's Learners by Jack Halpern. It uses an alternative to radical lookup called SKIP that makes life easier for learners by identifying shapes instead of radicals.

I'll have to look that one up. Now though, I'm really good at looking up Kanji via radicals, and I'm slowly (ever so slowly) learning the kanji. I can usually "know" what the sentence means, but to properly "translate" it, I have to dig my dictionary out.

As far as the comment that there is no good beginners book. That is correct, if you go by the bullshit foreign language section of a barnes n nobles or borders. If you get Genki I, I think you would be pleasantly surprised.

AVOID JAPANESE FOR BUSY PEOPLE LIKE THE PLAGUE!

This I can agree with. I just picked it up on my spare time and while fun, it's very time consuming. Since I've been extremely busy lately, my speaking skills are beyond terrible (to the point where I would not dare speak it, even with a gun to my head), though I've retained my reading and listening skills just from gaming. (On a limited budget too, har.)

Eventually when I have time/money I would like to properly study it, because I actually really find it fun figuring out a new language.
 
NotMSRP said:
You should master hiragana and katakana in two days at most.

Took me over a month... and I studied my ass off to do it... but now I will never forget it
 
I'm already signed up for a Japanese I course at my college (I'll be going back in 3 weeks)...

should I get those books definitely or are there any online sites where I can get a good 2 week head start (I'm not all that busy so I'll have time)...

I'd really like to get a head start (have been doing it for my other classes) because I'm going to be taking A LOT of hours this upcoming semester, since my college introduced flat-fee tuition...

"I would say that you should start right out with memorizing the kana sets and getting them down, even before you learn any words or anything, because it makes future vocabulary expansion a lot easier."

this sounds like an ideal thing to do as a head start, is there an online site that has a list?

what are kana sets anyway?
 
Umpteen said:
ROFL and so true.

Japanese people use seven word phrases to refer to themselves because it is rude to say "me" or "I" without including some sort of self deprecating comment.

ummm not in everyday speak...
 
I can easily read hiragana and katakana, but when it comes to writing them down on paper (ie, writing a letter) my mind goes blank :lol It's a little embarrasing. Typing out the characters via keyboard is easier then remembering the stroke order.

The best online Japanese dictionary is Jim Breen's.

http://etext.lib.virginia.edu/wwwjdic/
 
Alcibiades said:
I'm already signed up for a Japanese I course at my college (I'll be going back in 3 weeks)...

should I get those books definitely or are there any online sites where I can get a good 2 week head start (I'm not all that busy so I'll have time)...

I'd really like to get a head start (have been doing it for my other classes) because I'm going to be taking A LOT of hours this upcoming semester, since my college introduced flat-fee tuition...

"I would say that you should start right out with memorizing the kana sets and getting them down, even before you learn any words or anything, because it makes future vocabulary expansion a lot easier."

this sounds like an ideal thing to do as a head start, is there an online site that has a list?

what are kana sets anyway?

Hiragana and Katakana... I just wrote them completely in a grid for weeks... skipping over the ones I forgot and coming back later to fill them out.. it is what I am doing now for Kanji... God I hate Kanji... hahah I am getting ready to take the national Japanese test level 3..
 
Blackace said:
I am doing now for Kanji... God I hate Kanji... hahah I am getting ready to take the national Japanese test level 3..

Blackace said:
Kanji... God I hate Kanji... hahah I am

Blackace said:
God I hate Kanji...


NEED I SAY MORE.


hahah I am getting ready to take the national Japanese test level 3..

Seriously though, good luck with that. I'm going to go and have nightmares now, myself.
 
Dragona Akehi said:
NEED I SAY MORE.




Seriously though, good luck with that. I'm going to go and have nightmares now, myself.

Well I am so behind on the Kanji part (thank you professor, but I still love you) so I am having to bust my ass double time... the bad thing is the test is only once a year... in Dec...
 
Blackace said:
Well I am so behind on the Kanji part (thank you professor, but I still love you) so I am having to bust my ass double time... the bad thing is the test is only once a year... in Dec...

Like I said, nightmares. Now.
 
Alcibiades said:
ha I did some googling...

is this a good site?:

http://www.zompist.com/flash.html

seems like I can just go through that endlessly for days and hope for it to start becoming imprinted in my mind (I'd write them down one at a time as well, over and over randomly as they come up)...

Do them in order...that is my advice... あa いi うu えe お o
                                かka きki くku 

and so on... when you forget it pass it up.. and come back after you finish..
 
Dragona Akehi said:
Like I said, nightmares. Now.

Yeah my summer is shot...been studying everyday since I decided I was going to take the test... (T_T)
 
Umpteen said:
You knew it was only a matter of time. . .

before what?

ROFL JAPANESE PEOPLE NEED TO SAY CRAZY THINGS JUST TO SAY I...
 
Kanji doesn't seem so bad. Those characters look really nice. If I learn a lot of Kanji, doesn't that mean I can also read Chinese?

Also, I'd like to know how to spell my name 'Ruzbeh' in Japanese.
 
Ruzbeh said:
Kanji doesn't seem so bad. Those characters look really nice. If I learn a lot of Kanji, doesn't that mean I can also read Chinese?

Also, I'd like to know how to spell my name 'Ruzbeh' in Japanese.

No it does not mean you can read Chinese...

and Kanji is hard for Japanese students... in Japanese there are thousands of Kanji that they can use... in Chinese there are even more... nuts I tell you...
 
MrAngryFace said:
Why dont you guys start with something easier, like spanish. That only has a few stupid rules.

Well the grammar is quite close... just the writing in Japanese is crazy wacky
 
Myllz said:
"English Sentence:
Jane went to the school.

Same Sentence In Japanese:
School Jane To Went Monkey Apple Carbeurator."

:lol


UMMMM Not in everyday speech you newb. My Otaku is like 12 inches, yours is NOTHING.
 
Umpteen said:
UMMMM Not in everyday speech you newb. My Otaku is like 12 inches, yours is NOTHING.

バン!
 
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