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[Lunar15]

Yea some local asymmetric stuff and asynchronous stuff (like Demon's Souls and TWWHD) might be possible but definitely no multiple characters running around together.



There will be no co-op.

I wouldn't count out an additional mode. They said that one of the tenants of this new zelda is breaking the convention that you have to play alone. Even ALBW had some form of a competitive mode, however limited it was.

 

[georly]

Hahaha...I know. But they've probably been thinking about miiverse integration since the initial brainstorming. So we don't reaaally know. They might've come up with something crazy.

If random treasures are a part of the game, like they were in the DS games and in SS, then you could 'send' items across miiverse, and if someone finds it, you get a reward, or something. That's not well thought out, but it'd be nice if sending/receiving messages had some benefit outside of spoilers/funny pictures.

 

[zeldablue]

^^^Oh yeah. Sharing treasures would be nice. But we need a steamboat or train to upgrade. Maybe Link himself or Epona will be upgradable...

I wouldn't count out an additional mode. They said that one of the tenants of this new zelda is breaking the convention that you have to play alone. Even ALBW had some form of a competitive mode, however limited it was.

The idea of coming across a fellow Zelda fan playing Zelda...and just mugging the crap out of them sounds hilarious.


I await more info on the online integration.

 

[Mael]

I think it will have a dark souls - esque multiplayer. Not the invasion, but everything else.

EDIT: Also, I would like to know your opinions on the two following systems:

1) The rental system in ALBW: This opens up all the the world at once, but are hidden behind a paywall. Naturally, then, the more expensive it is, the harder the dungeon will be (at least that was the theory of it). Although I am personally not a fan of it, it does open up the world instantly.

2) The upgrade system of SS: It was frankly useless in SS but it was very fun as well. Combine items with rupees to make your items stronger. It was great! I don't know how I'd feel if it served a greater purpose though. Even if this stuff is optional, I'd hate to miss out on a piece of heart just because my item isn't strong enough just yet. I also wouldn't care for a more complex system though I think people will dig that.

1) The rental system can come back it's actually not bad, the issue is more that there wasn't much new to ALBW since half of the overworld was already lifted from Alttp.
2) That needs to absolutely stay, it was great in SS and one of the best addition.
the shield especially, I never did manage to break a shield because you never really need to block in SS like in TP, OoT, MM or even WW but it should really stay.
Heck the whole upgrading your shit gave a great sense of progression, I already miss it in the other Zelda games I replay.
It has to stay!

Sooo...

Seeing where people died? The game would have to actually be challenging for that to happen.

If they take ALBW's idea and mix it with the Zelda minigame in Nintendoland...you basically have Dark Souls/ZombieU. If you die...all of your weapons and loot leave you right there. And you have to get it back or watch as another player totally takes your s***.

But...that relies on whether this game will be hard or not. And Zelda is notoriously easy.

SS is actually way harder in general than anything this side of OoT, they gave 6 hearts at the beginning for a reason.
Fairies and everything were needed if you were careless unlike in WW or TP.
Seriously they just need to make it hard like Zelda 1/2 or even MM or MQ and it will be challenging without being Dark Souls hard (or even what people call Nintendo Hard)

 

[jlscool]

I thought I remember a rumor about Nintendo working on a massive forest last year. I found this rumor about slo motion bow and sword attacking, but I did not find the rumor about the giant forest.

http://http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=890414

This thread was immediately locked after 2 posts, but it has some accurate information in it back in July.

 

[TheMoon]

You got them from Niko on the Pirate ship in Wind Waker, and purchase the Bomb Bag in Skyward Sword as well.

I looked this up earlier, you get the first Bomb Bag in a dungeon from a character, then you can buy upgrades in the shop.

Skyward Sword

In Skyward Sword, the Bomb Bag is found in

Spoiler

the second dungeon of the game, the Earth Temple. Ledd the Mogma tells Link he has dropped his bomb bag when some monster scared him. Enter the next room and Link will fight the dungeon's Mini-Boss, two Lizalfos. The reward for defeating them is Ledd's Bomb Bag. However, when Ledd learns Link is searching for Zelda, he decides to give it to Link, and also throw in five bombs as a bonus.

 

[Heroman]

I thought I remember a rumor about Nintendo working on a massive forest last year. I found this rumor about slo motion bow and sword attacking, but I did not find the rumor about the giant forest.

http://http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=890414

This thread was immediately locked after 2 posts, but it has some accurate information in it back in July.

\it was fake, every zelda rumor is always and will always be fake

 

[Gsnap]

I don't think the dungeons should be "tiered" at all, actually, but I do think they should be restricted based on items you have. There just needs to be multiple levels to it. If you can't enter a dungeon without item A, why not require item B or C to obtain item A? Why not make B come from a dungeon and C from a sidequest? You can still build a dungeon around multiple items while preserving the freedom to tackle them in varying orders, especially if you pair it with two or three "starter" items. It seems like often when this argument comes up that people assume nonlinearity means you can only build a dungeon on one or two items, but there's another option: you tier the items instead of the dungeons, and have a few puzzles with more than one solution.

This is probably the best way to do nonlinearity in zelda. Sort of a mixture of Zelda and Metroid. The dungeons have a natural progression, with increasing complexity, but by allowing the player to find and use items out of order they can sequence break the order.

 

[TheMoon]

I wouldn't count out an additional mode. They said that one of the tenants of this new zelda is breaking the convention that you have to play alone. Even ALBW had some form of a competitive mode, however limited it was.

ALBW had you playing against an AI. This is pretty much what I propositioned a few posts earlier as their online/miiverse functionality. Live/simultaneous online co-op won't be a thing in this game. Count on it.

Will people stop demanding everything be Dark bloody Souls already?

You're misunderstanding the discussion. It's about online/miiverse implementation. Has nothing to do with the old "Zelda Souls" bullshit.

 

[Mael]

ALBW had you playing against an AI. This is pretty much what I propositioned a few posts earlier as their online/miiverse functionality. Live/simultaneous online co-op won't be a thing in this game. Count on it.

A good thing would be the AI taking on the mannerism of the player that left the AI, a sort of drivatar or kinda like how Smash does it with the amiibos if you will....
Am I asking too much?

 

[Lunar15]

ALBW had you playing against an AI. This is pretty much what I propositioned a few posts earlier as their online/miiverse functionality. Live/simultaneous online co-op won't be a thing in this game. Count on it..

Out of curiosity, why are you so positive on this?

 

[ASIS]

I don't think the dungeons should be "tiered" at all, actually, but I do think they should be restricted based on items you have. There just needs to be multiple levels to it. If you can't enter a dungeon without item A, why not require item B or C to obtain item A? Why not make B come from a dungeon and C from a sidequest? You can still build a dungeon around multiple items while preserving the freedom to tackle them in varying orders, especially if you pair it with two or three "starter" items. It seems like often when this argument comes up that people assume nonlinearity means you can only build a dungeon on one or two items, but there's another option: you tier the items instead of the dungeons, and have a few puzzles with more than one solution.

Didn't see this post. I love this idea, hope they run with it.

 

[TheMoon]

I thought I remember a rumor about Nintendo working on a massive forest last year. I found this rumor about slo motion bow and sword attacking, but I did not find the rumor about the giant forest.

http://http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=890414

This thread was immediately locked after 2 posts, but it has some accurate information in it back in July.

That was bullshit rumor started on a German site. It was never real. Erase this nonsense from your mind.

Out of curiosity, why are you so positive on this?

because of this:

To the people thinking about co-op: If you think about it for a second, it's pretty clearly not happening and we already know why. The slow-mo jump. You can't do co-op when one player can slow down time during combat. Max Payne 3 barely made it work in a competitive multiplayer setting. Let this one go, we can scratch that off the list with 100% certainty.

 

[zeldablue]

Will people stop demanding everything be Dark bloody Souls already?

Miiverse is basically Nintendo Dark Souls. :\

 

[Tinfoilhatsron]

Ugh. Wished they put the grass on the rocks because the texture was pretty distracting. Never liked rock textures in game IMO. Everything else looks great!

 

[Lunar15]

Bayonetta 2 had slow mo & multiplayer.

But who's to say you'd have that ability? The fact is that they've already mentioned breaking the convention of playing alone. This could mean a wide variety of things, so I think it's too early to count anything out.

 

[ape2man]

i saw this in the comments on kotaku.

super HYPED!!!

 

[TheMoon]

Bayonetta 2 had slow mo & multiplayer.

But who's to say you'd have that ability? The fact is that they've already mentioned breaking the convention of playing alone. This could mean a wide variety of things, so I think it's too early to count anything out.

Bayo2 only slows down enemy movement, though. I haven't played Tag Climax myself yet but I assume both players just remain at normal speed while enemies slow down during Witch Time? You can't do that in Zelda because everything slows down, including Link's movement in order to keep him in the air. It's basically like Max Payne's Bullet Time. Rockstar made it work in a competitive multiplayer setting but that was centered around shooting each other in a small, enclosed arena. It would be incredibly disruptive if you co-opped through Zelda and your buddy was obsessed with jumping off of his horse all the time, slowing down your sword fight with a moblin around the corner.

i saw this in the comments on kotaku.

super HYPED!!!

GAF -> Kotaku -> GAF.

 

[……forgetit]

So seeing Link's Bow, Sword, Shield, and Quiver all appear on him at once. Did anyone else get this concept art's vibe from it?

 

[RagnarokX]

Oh hey, cool Ragnarok, your work is on Kotaku

http://kotaku.com/everyones-trying-to-figure-out-the-new-zeldas-map-1668306739

That's cool. Wish I hadn't mistaken that mountain, but oh well.

 

[LocalE]

Bayo2 only slows down enemy movement, though. I haven't played Tag Climax myself yet but I assume both players just remain at normal speed while enemies slow down during Witch Time? You can't do that in Zelda because everything slows down, including Link's movement in order to keep him in the air. It's basically like Max Payne's Bullet Time. Rockstar made it work in a competitive multiplayer setting but that was centered around shooting each other in a small, enclosed arena. It would be incredibly disruptive if you co-opped through Zelda and your buddy was obsessed with jumping off of his horse all the time, slowing down your sword fight with a moblin around the corner.

Maybe it would be annoying, but that is just not enough to have me taking your definitive statements seriously.
Just because you think you might not like it - well that's not any reason for you to be so sure that it won't happen in some fashion. You might just have to tell your buddy when he's being needlessly annoying, really. That's all the solution that is needed to the problem you are using as the basis for your declaration that co-op is an utter impossibility.

 

[majik13]

No, I agree with this. It's not quite smooth.

In fact, I don't think he should be doing that flip at all. The simpler jump in the reveal trailer is smoother and makes more sense; if anything, flipping off the horse like that is a bizarre place to insert a flip and a roll should instead be happening on the ground when he lands to dissipate/redirect his momentum. If you could roll forward into a ground attack after leaping from Epona, it would preserve the initial advantage you had and make the whole thing flow better. I think Twilight Princess let you attack out of a roll like this? One of the games does. I think it would make the entire action feel "smoother" and like Link was more experienced, though it's still a minor issue.

yeah I noticed the flip on the 2nd veiwing and thought the same thing, makes it feel almost glitchy and unsmooth, and doesnt make much sense to do it in the first place. They should do as you suggest. Reveal animation worked better.

 

[georly]

Hypothetically speaking, if this *IS* a remake of Zelda 1, what things unique to Zelda 1 do you want to see return?

Personally, i'd like to see:

• Hear bosses from 1-2 rooms away in dungeons
• Finding a (guy who gives you a) sword behind a waterfall
• Aquamentus
• A raft item

Also, The master sword needs to be in this game, of course. No more magic sword.

 

[TheMoon]

Maybe it would be annoying, but that is just not enough to have me taking your definitive statements seriously.
Just because you think you might not like it - well that's not any reason for you to be so sure that it won't happen in some fashion. You might just have to tell your buddy when he's being needlessly annoying, really. That's all the solution that is needed to the problem you are using as the basis for your declaration that co-op is an utter impossibility.

It's a design-reason for them to not include it. I bet you during playtests the top feedback you'd get would be that it's annoying when your partner slows down your game all the time. Remedy couldn't figure out how to do multiplayer with bullet time and it took the better part of a decade until Rockstar found an acceptable compromise for it's deathmatch mode. It just doesn't work for Zelda.

Remember how some people were annoyed with NSMBWii/U for keeping the death-frezee during multiplayer? This is a 10x worse version of that. This isn't me not liking something and concluding that because I don't like it they won't put it in.

 

[ibyea]

I don't think the presence or absence of complex item puzzles makes a game better or worse. The better question would be "do the dungeons offer an appropriate level of challenge?" And I'd say without hesitation that the dungeons in Zelda 1 offer a much more appropriate level of challenge than the dungeons in most other Zelda games (bar Zelda II, LttP, and possibly MM).

In Zelda 1, they achieve this through a combination of map complexity and the much more frantic combat (much easier to get hit = get hit more = die through sheer attrition if you haven't polished your skills or your familiarity with the dungeon layout).

Zelda II still has a good amount of map complexity, and obviously amps up each enemy encounter considerably since the side-scrolling perspective demands fewer enemies on-screen at any one time.

LttP is far easier than either Zelda I or Zelda II in both dungeon complexity and enemy difficulty, but I think was still in a very comfortable range for most players.

MM doesn't win a lot of points for combat difficulty, but I'll be damned if those dungeons still don't confuse me if I haven't replayed it in awhile.

The problem with "puzzles" is that it's usually trivial to replay a dungeon if you already know the puzzle solutions - especially since the map complexity and enemy challenge is so watered down at this point. They'd get a lot more mileage by focusing on more complex dungeon layouts and more difficult enemy encounters than by trying to make the "puzzle solutions" harder to read.

That's not to say that "puzzles" should be stripped away or shouldn't exist. I just think that they've been a poor leg for dungeons to stand on without appropriate challenge from the map itself and the enemy encounters. You might get "stuck" one or two times, but then you find the solution and the dungeon's fairly easy to run through on subsequent plays. Much harder to remember every twist and turn of a maze-like level or flawlessly execute combat challenges.



The depressing thing about ALBW was that even though you could get the items in any order, you still pretty much just used them in the one dungeon anyway. So they might as well have just been in those dungeons, instead of used to enter the dungeons in the first place (with signposted obstacles blocking the entrance).

Map complexity and over spawning enemies are cheap way to create difficulty. LttP had more complex dungeons than either of the first two Zeldas. Making dungeons overly mazy is not complexity, it is boring, and it adds nothing except frustration. It becomes your standard RPG dungeon crawler at that point. Plus, they don't provide me with that "complete" feeling I get when the thematic and mechanics of the dungeon comes together.

 

[jlscool]

\it was fake, every zelda rumor is always and will always be fake

Ok, what about this screenshot?

http://http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=820069

It does seem to use the minimalist hud like the demo.

 

[Mael]

Hypothetically speaking, if this *IS* a remake of Zelda 1, what things unique to Zelda 1 do you want to see return?

Personally, i'd like to see:

• Hear bosses from 1-2 rooms away in dungeons
• Finding a (guy who gives you a) sword behind a waterfall
• Aquamentus
• A raft item

Also, The master sword needs to be in this game, of course. No more magic sword.

How hard it was to fight crowds of foes.
Crowd of foes.
the scale item (and its implications).
upgradable swords not correlated to the story....

 

[FunkyMunkey]

i saw this in the comments on kotaku.

super HYPED!!!

WOAHWOAHWOAH I CAN'T HANDLE THIS

 

[Clefargle]

Bayonetta 2 had slow mo & multiplayer.

Yup, was gonna post this.

 

[Refreshment.01]

I think it will have a dark souls - esque multiplayer. Not the invasion, but everything else.

EDIT: Also, I would like to know your opinions on the two following systems:

1) The rental system in ALBW: This opens up all the the world at once, but are hidden behind a paywall. Naturally, then, the more expensive it is, the harder the dungeon will be (at least that was the theory of it). Although I am personally not a fan of it, it does open up the world instantly.

i know the question wasn't directed to me but i like to jump at every opportunity to talk about the above.

i think i 've come up with a system for item/game progression with the best of traditioanal and a more open ended Zelda.

1) Have the first 3 dungeons of the game be in the usual way of progression.

2) The rest of the dungeons can be tackled in any order and use the items from the 3 first dungeons.

3)Have dungeon items or others got from other places behave as intrinsic and always equipped abilties for Link. The series needs to cut a bit on the constant item swapping.

On another item related note. It seems that the item buffer key returned and that the item asigned there is visible on Link. Hence the bow was always shown in the VG awards video.

 

[TheMoon]

Ok, what about this screenshot?

http://http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=820069

It does seem to use the minimalist hud like the demo.

Dude ...this is not real. Everyone can fake the basic Zelda HUD. That shit doesn't leak. Don't believe Zelda leaks/rumors ever.

Yup, was gonna post this.

Again, only slows down enemies. Zelda slows down players and enemies. Not the same, as I explained earlier.

 

[ibyea]

i know the question wasn't directed to me but i like to jump at every opportunity to talk about the above.

i think i 've come up with a system for item/game progression with the best of traditioanal and a more open ended Zelda.

1) Have the first 3 dungeons of the game be in the usual way of progression.

2) The rest of the dungeons can be tackled in any order and use the items from the 3 first dungeons.

3)Have dungeon items or others got from other places behave as intrinsic and always equipped abilties for Link. The series needs to cut a bit on the constant item swapping.

I like your first two suggestions. Not sure how to feel about the third one.

 

[Inquisitive_Ghost]

Hypothetically speaking, if this *IS* a remake of Zelda 1, what things unique to Zelda 1 do you want to see return?

Personally, i'd like to see:

• 
  [*]Hear bosses from 1-2 rooms away in dungeons
• Finding a (guy who gives you a) sword behind a waterfall
• Aquamentus
• A raft item

Also, The master sword needs to be in this game, of course. No more magic sword.

I'd love this, but not for every single boss. A silent boss in a world of hinted bosses would be a great contrast, for example, because there could be no hint at all as to what it looks like.

 

[OG_Original Gamer]

It's the bandwidth baby. I don't like those trees keep them the same, who cares about tree variety. I don't care about apple trees, replenish my health with heart's.

 

[ASIS]

i know the question wasn't directed to me but i like to jump at every opportunity to talk about the above.

i think i 've come up with a system for item/game progression with the best of traditioanal and a more open ended Zelda.

1) Have the first 3 dungeons of the game be in the usual way of progression.

2) The rest of the dungeons can be tackled in any order and use the items from the 3 first dungeons.

3)Have dungeon items or others got from other places behave as intrinsic and always equipped abilties for Link. The series needs to cut a bit on the constant item swapping.

On another item related note. It seems that the item buffer key returned and that the item asigned there is visible on Link. Hence the bow was always shown in the VG awards video.

The question was open for everyone, I wish more people would join in honestly, so your input is very much welcome.


So you are saying all items after the first three should behave like the power gauntlets? I'm not sure how I'd feel about that. I like the off-the-wall stuff such as spinner, beetle, etc. I don't think it will work with your third suggestion.

The first two are fine I suppose, but it still loses some of the progression of the game wouldn't you say so?

EDIT: I didn't read the last line, what is an item buffer key?

 

[Mael]

I'd love this, but not for every single boss. A silent boss in a world of hinted bosses would be a great contrast, for example, because there could be no hint at all as to what it looks like.

That goes without saying, not for the boss in the shadow temple too way too obvious!
Or make them live their lives so that if you go at certain time of day they're noisy and otherwise they're not....
Or that's a shitload of work for a monster you only encounter once....

i know the question wasn't directed to me but i like to jump at every opportunity to talk about the above.

i think i 've come up with a system for item/game progression with the best of traditioanal and a more open ended Zelda.

1) Have the first 3 dungeons of the game be in the usual way of progression.

2) The rest of the dungeons can be tackled in any order and use the items from the 3 first dungeons.

3)Have dungeon items or others got from other places behave as intrinsic and always equipped abilties for Link. The series needs to cut a bit on the constant item swapping.

On another item related note. It seems that the item buffer key returned and that the item asigned there is visible on Link. Hence the bow was always shown in the VG awards video.

See when I tell everyone there's plenty of stuffs that we should keep from SS!
this can stay too.

 

[monlo]

page 76 and 77 of this thread, with RagnarokX's pics and subsequent discussion, has made me more hyped for this game than I thought I could be

 

[Refreshment.01]

3)Have dungeon items or others got from other places behave as intrinsic and always equipped abilties for Link. The series needs to cut a bit on the constant item swapping.

I like your first two suggestions. Not sure how to feel about the third one.

im not suggesting for all items to become intrinsic abilities for Link, just for the ones that make sense. For example, the iron/pegasus boots should be always equipped and activated by a key, say for example it could work like Metroid or hitting up twice in quick succesion.

We saw some of that in SkyWard and now in Zelda U with the Sail Cloth. Nintendo could extend the functionality to items like the Shield and Sword.

The reflective shield is a good example of what im talking about, it's an item that it always equipped, serves for both combat and puzzle solving by reflecting attacks. This is the type of stream lining the game needs.

 

[ibyea]

3)Have dungeon items or others got from other places behave as intrinsic and always equipped abilties for Link. The series needs to cut a bit on the constant item swapping.


im not suggesting for all items to become intrinsic abilities for Link, just for the ones that make sense. For example, the iron/pegasus boots should be always equipped and activated by a key, say for example it could work like Metroid or hitting up twice in quick succesion.

We saw some of that in SkyWard and now in Zelda U with the Sail Cloth. Nintendo could extend the functionality to items like the Shield and Sword.

The reflective shield is a good example of what im talking about, it's an item that it always equipped, serves for both combat and puzzle solving by reflecting attacks. This is the type of stream lining the game needs.

It sounds good now that you have explained it.

 

[georly]

How hard it was to fight crowds of foes.
Crowd of foes.
the scale item (and its implications).
upgradable swords not correlated to the story....

That was really only Skyward Sword and Wind Waker. Also, to a degree, the light surrounding the master sword in twilight princess. Also the four sword in minish cap, but that was scrictly a mechanical change to increase puzzle complexity.

Every other zelda game w/ sword upgrades were optional, IIRC. (No i'm not counting getting the lokomo sword at the end as a sword upgrade)

ALBW, ALttP did sword upgrades perfectly.

 

[Version 3.0]

Looks good.

I just finished A Link Between Worlds (didn't play it for quite a while due to my hatred of portables), and it completely restored my faith in Nintendo's ability to make a great Zelda game. That faith has been terribly eroded by the more and more restrictive linearity, the more and more intrusive handholding, and the less and less challenging gameplay, specifically combat damage (if the enemies can even hit you, instead of just circling you and glaring).

A Link Between Worlds addressed all of that beautifully. It was the best Zelda game in years. If Nintendo can carry over its amazing design into this larger scale, this is a potential masterpiece.

From the little we've seen, I'm experiencing an optimism I haven't felt in a long time.

 

[Crayolan]

Hypothetically speaking, if this *IS* a remake of Zelda 1, what things unique to Zelda 1 do you want to see return?

Personally, i'd like to see:

• Hear bosses from 1-2 rooms away in dungeons
• Finding a (guy who gives you a) sword behind a waterfall
• Aquamentus
• A raft item

Also, The master sword needs to be in this game, of course. No more magic sword.

Ganon, not Ganondorf
Dropping you into the world with no objective
Having a very loose dungeon order
Being able to completely skip the sword
Sword beams at full health

All these things would be pretty cool to see in any Zelda game though.

 

[BY2K]

I like that there's more than one type of trees.

Btw, I'm preparing my own theory on the map, so stay tuned.

 

[Gsnap]

I think it will have a dark souls - esque multiplayer. Not the invasion, but everything else.

EDIT: Also, I would like to know your opinions on the two following systems:

1) The rental system in ALBW: This opens up all the the world at once, but are hidden behind a paywall. Naturally, then, the more expensive it is, the harder the dungeon will be (at least that was the theory of it). Although I am personally not a fan of it, it does open up the world instantly.

2) The upgrade system of SS: It was frankly useless in SS but it was very fun as well. Combine items with rupees to make your items stronger. It was great! I don't know how I'd feel if it served a greater purpose though. Even if this stuff is optional, I'd hate to miss out on a piece of heart just because my item isn't strong enough just yet. I also wouldn't care for a more complex system though I think people will dig that.

The rental system isn't inherently horrible. They just didn't handle it properly. Theoretically, you could have dungeons with a lot of variety in complexity and items usage. Theoretically ALBW could have had some of the best dungeons in the series. Because, they should have been able to have the dungeons use any number of items they wanted, because they knew that the player had access to all the items. The problem is I think they got scared. "Well, we know the players can have every item, but we don't know that they will have every item." I think they were scared that the player would reach a dungeon that required items they chose not to buy, and get frustrated or annoyed, even though the player could go back to the shop and buy the needed items. So as far as dungeon complexity, the rental system can still deliver that, even though it didn't in one game.

That said, the rental system really does hurt the good feelings of progression that you get from actually finding items, whether in the dungeons or overworld. If you know all the items, then you get an idea of how all the dungeons will work even before you get there. It just makes the whole thing more mundane. Like it's link's job, rather than an adventure. I'd rather see the non-linearity handled in another way.

The upgrade system is cool. It was fun getting a faster beetle, or one that could grab things. It was nice seeing different types of shields. Keep it, but expand on it. I actually think the upgrade system from ALBW was better than SS.

Ganon, not Ganondorf

Seriously. We need to see old school pig Ganon back.

 

[Mael]

Looks good.

I just finished A Link Between Worlds (didn't play it for quite a while due to my hatred of portables), and it completely restored my faith in Nintendo's ability to make a great Zelda game. That faith has been terribly eroded by the more and more restrictive linearity, the more and more intrusive handholding, and the less and less challenging gameplay, specifically combat damage (if the enemies can even hit you, instead of just circling you and glaring).

A Link Between Worlds addressed all of that beautifully. It was the best Zelda game in years. If Nintendo can carry over its amazing design into this larger scale, this is a potential masterpiece.

From the little we've seen, I'm experiencing an optimism I haven't felt in a long time.

Dude I thought you were cool!
On topic, you're absolutely right, ALBW is everything one needs to play after SS because it address nearly everything that went wrong in the last console Zelda.

That was really only Skyward Sword and Wind Waker. Also, to a degree, the light surrounding the master sword in twilight princess. Also the four sword in minish cap, but that was scrictly a mechanical change to increase puzzle complexity.

Every other zelda game w/ sword upgrades were optional, IIRC. (No i'm not counting getting the lokomo sword at the end as a sword upgrade)

ALBW, ALttP did sword upgrades perfectly.

Let's see only looking at console Zeldas....
Alttp have the master sword,
OoT is pretty much the same
WW is pretty much the same,
TP you pretty much have 2 swords,
SS is only part of the story line.

Even MM got it wrong.
Only 2 upgrades (1 being temporary AND expensive) is pitiful and missing the point.
Do something like the shields of SS, multiple swords with multiple upgrades and designs.
Mix it up a bit!

 

[BY2K]

Seriously. We need to see old school pig Ganon back.

Why not both?

 

[TheMoon]

I like that there's more than one type of trees.

Btw, I'm preparing my own theory on the map, so stay tuned.

COMING UP NEXT: BY2K's SHOCKING DISCOVERIES IN THE WORLD OF THE NEXT THE LEGEND OF ZELDA GAME. STAY TUNED. YOU WON'T BELIEVE WHAT YOU SEE!

 

[Mael]

Why not both?

I second that, for all the shit TP got for keeping Ganondorf, its designs of Ganon and Ganondorf were really the best.

 

[Heroman]

The non linear in albw also hurt the story. There weren't enough Zelda story moment s.

 

[georly]

Let's see only looking at console Zeldas....
Alttp have the master sword,
OoT is pretty much the same
WW is pretty much the same,
TP you pretty much have 2 swords,
SS is only part of the story line.

Even MM got it wrong.
Only 2 upgrades (1 being temporary AND expensive) is pitiful and missing the point.
Do something like the shields of SS, multiple swords with multiple upgrades and designs.
Mix it up a bit!

So you're saying you don't want a master sword to be part of the equation at all? I really like mainline zelda games having the master sword. It's a symbol. Yes, that limits upgrades, I guess, but I also don't want to reduce the significance of that sword.