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[nial]

I never thought I would make two threads about this game today, but this was too good to ignore:

Sony's PlayStation is the market leader for video game consoles, a dominance built on the backs of violent stories like "The Last of Us" and "God of War."
But the company is learning that bloody epics about aging fathers can appeal to only so many people.

In its first partnership with Lego, PlayStation now targets the family-friendly, all-ages audience that's vital for long-term entertainment enterprises like Disney and Nintendo. "Lego Horizon Adventures" retells the origins of the closest character Sony has to a Disney princess, Aloy.

For years, Lego worked with PlayStation to produce a brick version of the Tallneck, a Horizon robot that moves like a brontosaurus with a flat satellite dish as its head. The toy released in 2022 as a promotion for "Horizon Forbidden West."

"It was one of the first ventures we really had on with the bricks side of business looking at games and gaming IP," Bryant said. "There was a lot of excitement internally at Lego about that, and certainly within the game team. We were all fans of Horizon. So we had a direct conversation with Guerrilla where we came to the table and said, 'Hey, this looks really cool, but you know what would be even cooler?' We fully expected for them to go, 'Yeah, that would be cool' and nothing would come of it, but they matched our enthusiasm."

Guerrilla's first franchise, "Killzone," was a dark, violent world that evoked real-world totalitarian imagery. The studio doesn't hesitate to declare its preference for the vibrant world of Horizon, which also features a diverse cast.

We were done with it as a team. As a studio, we needed to refresh the palette. It was, by choice, the opposite of 'Killzone,'" said art director Roy Postma, who has worked at Guerrilla since 2000. "I think the themes that this story and the characters represent are relatable for all ages and people, like having a found family of friends and finding your place in the world."

From WashingtonPost, full credit here to user DriftingSpirit on ResetERA for getting the content of the article.
For all the "Sony and Hermen Hulst are pushing hard a franchise nobody truly cares about!!!1!" posts you see everywhere, well, it looks like even a major toy corporation like motherfucking LEGO Group could see the potential here.

 

[Three]

A lot of people on GAF who hate Horizon pretend the franchise isn't popular. Not that they just don't like it.

 

[DoubleClutch]

A lot of people on GAF who hate Horizon pretend the franchise isn't popular. Not that they just don't like it.

I just can’t imagine Horizon as a top franchise. If you like it great, I think it’s super bland and boring.

 

[bitbydeath]

More local co-op games the better.
Uncharted lego could be fun too.

 

[Angry_Megalodon]

"Lego Horizon Adventures" retells the origins of the closest character Sony has to a Disney princess, Aloy.

 

[Three]

I just can’t imagine Horizon as a top franchise. If you like it great, I think it’s super bland and boring.

As a single player game I think it's a lot better than Killzone as a franchise for Guerrilla. I had fun with it. Multiplayer Killzone wasn't bad either but I prefer Horizon singleplayer overall.

 

[Doom85]

A lot of people on GAF who hate Horizon pretend the franchise isn't popular. Not that they just don't like it.

“B-b-b-b-but the bundles! It didn’t actually sell well, trust us and our baseless theories!”

Let’s be real, if some people detest a game for whatever reason, they’ll spin any narrative they can to deny its success.

For example, there are people who act like Spider-man 2 did poorly and/or was widely detested. The FACTS show the game sold 5 million in 11 days, and then has sold over 11 million by April of 2024 so if the game was truly detested the word of mouth would have killed it by now but nope, clearly not the case no matter how the narrative pushers try to pretend. And mind you, Spider-man 1 released by the time 80+ million PS4s had been sold, whereas Spider-man 2 released when the total number of PS5s sold were in the 40-50 million range by that point. So even though Spider-man 1 sales were slightly higher on their own (13 million after one year, so hard to gauge exactly), with full context it’s clear that demand was even higher for Spider-man 2 and continued to be high based on its continued momentum despite the vocal minority insisting the game was bad and that audiences were “fed up” with Insomniac and whatever other nonsense they spouted out.

 

[InterMusketeer]

For years, Lego worked with PlayStation to produce a brick version of the Tallneck

Come on now. They're acting like this was some intense long-term collaboration or something. It was one set. Sonic, Mario and Minecraft have entire themes dedicated to them with dozens of sets each. If one set is enough to get them enthused for a Lego Horizon game, they must be on their knees, desperately begging for games based on those other franchises.

 

[nial]

Come on now. They're acting like this was some intense long-term collaboration or something. It was one set. Sonic, Mario and Minecraft have entire themes dedicated to them with dozens of sets each. If one set is enough to get them enthused for a Lego Horizon game, they must be on their knees, desperately begging for games based on those other franchises.

Like, yes? LEGO would fucking LOVE to produce a game based on Mario or Sonic sets.

 

[ShaiKhulud1989]

Come on now. They're acting like this was some intense long-term collaboration or something. It was one set. Sonic, Mario and Minecraft have entire themes dedicated to them with dozens of sets each. If one set is enough to get them enthused for a Lego Horizon game, they must be on their knees, desperately begging for games based on those other franchises.

Tallneck is a very popular set that was unwilling to go to discounts for a long time by LEGO standards. And I’m sure they are preparing more.

But yeah, this info breaks lot of fake narratives.

 

[Vick]

Uncharted lego could be fun too.

Man.. I'd buy the shit out of that.

I just can’t imagine Horizon as a top franchise. If you like it great, I think it’s super bland and boring.

I still have a such an hard time grasping the notion of games that are all about fighting robo dinosaurs/creatures freely roaming the open-world map, being "boring".
Especially the kind of creative machines you see in these games, with those designs, attack patterns and animations, and the snappy controls/precise combat at your disposal.
It's exactly the kind of game I was dreaming of as a kid while playing Pokémon on my GameBoy.

But maybe it's me (and perhaps some others among the 25 million people who bought Zero Dawn), since there's also many other complaints about this series I have an hard time understanding.

 

[Lokaum D+]

 

[bitbydeath]

I just can’t imagine Horizon as a top franchise. If you like it great, I think it’s super bland and boring.

That could be said about a lot of things. Eg.

I just can’t imagine Avatar as a top movie franchise. If you like it great, I think it’s super bland and boring.

 

[dreamstation]

Haven't finished Forbidden West but I loved Zero Dawn. Had some great characters and the whole premise had me hooked from the start.

 

[Angry_Megalodon]

Horizon is a best-seller because it has a great setting and very cool dinosaurs. The concept is very appealing.

To think that Aloy is the main driver of its success is peak delusion. Her appearance is fine, but she has the lamest personality of any PlayStation first-party game. Comparing her to Ellie, Freya, Abby, Chloe, Kat and all the supporting cast of Ghost of Tsushima is a joke.

That could be said about a lot of things. Eg.

I just can’t imagine Avatar as a top movie franchise. If you like it great, I think it’s super bland and boring.

They are very similar products. Standard forgettable blockbuster for fast consumption.

 

[nial]

But yeah, this info breaks lot of fake narratives.

Not that related, but one of the most insane things I hate ever witnessed in gaming discourse was when, as soon as Astro Bot got announced, people were claiming that they wanted more smaller, light-hearted games from Sony that took much less time to create than their big blockbusters; LEGO Horizon Adventures was revealed a week later and people started shitting on it because muh industry plant or bullshit like that.
Worth mentioning that Astro Bot was developed in -at least- 40 months from April 2021 to August 2024, while LEGO Horizon Adventures took around half of that, from January 2023 to October 2024 (21 months).

 

[Killjoy-NL]

Friendly reminder:

Don't take Gaf seriously.

This was the most logical reason for the game to exist.

 

[Shits_McGiggles]

How did they look at this and NOT make the robot dinosaurs playable?

 

[Saturn Dragon]

I hope Sony approach Naughty Dog and Guerilla and tell them to stop doing TLOU and Horizon related crap.

 

[vivftp]

I hope Sony approach Naughty Dog and Guerilla and tell them to stop doing TLOU and Horizon related crap.

I hope you're never put in charge of anything more important than a lemonade stand because your business sense is shit, if that's what you think Sony should do.

 

[Gambit2483]

For example, there are people who act like Spider-man 2 did poorly and/or was widely detested. The FACTS show the game sold 5 million in 11 days, and then has sold over 11 million by April of 2024 so if the game was truly detested the word of mouth would have killed it by now but nope, clearly not the case no matter how the narrative pushers try to pretend. And mind you, Spider-man 1 released by the time 80+ million PS4s had been sold, whereas Spider-man 2 released when the total number of PS5s sold were in the 40-50 million range by that point. So even though Spider-man 1 sales were slightly higher on their own (13 million after one year, so hard to gauge exactly), with full context it’s clear that demand was even higher for Spider-man 2 and continued to be high based on its continued momentum despite the vocal minority insisting the game was bad and that audiences were “fed up” with Insomniac and whatever other nonsense they spouted out.

I've rarely if ever heard anyone claim that SM2 was "hated" or "detested" or anything on that level....but I have heard from an overwhelming amount of people that the game was disappointing in many aspects ranging from

- not enough content
- too safe of a sequel
- disappointing story that felt rushed in the 3rd act
- terrible characterizations of Peter and MJ
- contains too many political aspects and very out-of-place scenarios, dialog, and mission designs.

Let's be real. It sold well because it's Spider-Man, one of the greatest Superheroes of all time, has impressive visuals and fun gameplay despite the litany of aforementioned disappointing elements and numerous complaints.

 

[EDMIX]

I just can’t imagine Horizon as a top franchise. If you like it great, I think it’s super bland and boring.

When the game moves 25 million units, sir its a top title

That isn't asking you to fucking like it or love and I don't get why gamers have a hard time dealing with this. Any other medium i deal with regarding film, music, television, literature, its fucking rare to hear someone cry over an IP they don't like and question it being a "top franchise' based solely on their feelings

Like, sir we are not going to sit here and pretend Star Wars or Transformers isn't a top franchise , claim Harry Potter or Alex Cross isn't a top franchise or claim Drake isn't a top artist etc

Most of the people engaged in those mediums have enough common sense to separate those ideas.

I don't know how today we have a IP move 25 million such a odd claim like its not a top franchise....

Compared to what? What IP are you saying is a top franchise based on objectively an actual number? lol

This idea has nothing to do with your feelings lol


I think COD is bland as I don't really play the IP, I'm not going to sit here and claim its not a top franchise like I smoke crack or something lol


It makes zero sense based on how we generally use that term (at least everyone else outside of gaming that seems to understand how to use theses terms anyway)

As a single player game I think it's a lot better than Killzone as a franchise for Guerrilla. I had fun with it. Multiplayer Killzone wasn't bad either but I prefer Horizon singleplayer overall.

agreed and I really liked Killzone, but Horizon has so many layers to it. I loved the combat, the world, character etc. Hype for the 3rd game!

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

I've rarely if ever heard anyone claim that SM2 was "hated" or "detested" or anything on that level....but I have heard from an overwhelming amount of people that the game was disappointing in many aspects ranging from

- not enough content
- too safe of a sequel
- disappointing story that felt rushed in the 3rd act
- terrible characterizations of Peter and MJ
- contains too many political aspects and very out-of-place scenarios, dialog, and mission designs.

Let's be real. It sold well because it's Spider-Man, one of the greatest Superheroes of all time, has impressive visuals and fun gameplay despite the litany of aforementioned disappointing elements and numerous complaints.

Yes and these people also ignore the things SM2 does right - amazing pacing, TONS of boss fights, and spectacle set piece moments that are some of the best in gaming.

You can cherry pick flaws of any game. SM sells well because it's both GREAT and has a popular IP. Being a popular IP alone is not sufficient for a well selling game - just look at Star Wars or Avatar.

 

[kazuyamishima]

I hope Sony approach Naughty Dog and Guerilla and tell them to stop doing TLOU and Horizon related crap.

Why? The games are still selling extremely well.

 

[Ridicululzz]

Makes sense, the series is pretty popular. And honestly guys - the mech dinos just SCEAM Lego. It's the perfect fit

 

[Gambit2483]

Yes and these people also ignore the things SM2 does right - amazing pacing, TONS of boss fights, and spectacle set piece moments that are some of the best in gaming.

You can cherry pick flaws of any game. SM sells well because it's both GREAT and has a popular IP. Being a popular IP alone is not sufficient for a well selling game - just look at Star Wars or Avatar.

Yes it has some great set pieces, traversal/combat mechanics etc., but that stuff ultimately doesn't hold as much weight when all is said and done after completing the game. Most people tend to focus on what it did wrong, especially if there was a lot of it or it was significant enough to weight their overall impression.

It sold well on the back of SM1 being such an amazing game and having great post game DLC and content from Insomniac....but trust me when I say that Insomniac has lost a LOT of good will and faith from many consumers after SM2 and they will be watching SM3 much more closely this time around and many won't have a problem at all "voting with their wallet" so to speak if they feel that SM3 is going to be worse or going into the wrong direction.

 

[Heisenberg007]

So much for Hermen pushing Horizon everywhere.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

Yes it has some great set pieces, traversal/combat mechanics etc., but that stuff ultimately doesn't hold as much weight when all is said and done after completing the game. Most people tend to focus on what it did wrong, especially if there was a lot of it or it was significant enough to weight their overall impression.

It sold well on the back of SM1 being such an amazing game and having great post game DLC and content from Insomniac....but trust me when I say that Insomniac has lost a LOT of good will and faith from many consumers after SM2 and they will be watching SM3 much more closely this time around and many won't have a problem at all "voting with their wallet" so to speak if they feel that SM3 is going to be worse or going into the wrong direction.

Most....as in who? Where's your study that says where these "most" folks are coming from?

SM2 is better than SM1, full stop.

Insomniac hasn't lost any good will. For whatever reason, you don't like it. But it has far less flaws than SM1 did, particularly when it comes to pacing and improved combat.

 

[March Climber]

“B-b-b-b-but the bundles! It didn’t actually sell well, trust us and our baseless theories!”

Let’s be real, if some people detest a game for whatever reason, they’ll spin any narrative they can to deny its success.

For example, there are people who act like Spider-man 2 did poorly and/or was widely detested. The FACTS show the game sold 5 million in 11 days, and then has sold over 11 million by April of 2024 so if the game was truly detested the word of mouth would have killed it by now but nope, clearly not the case no matter how the narrative pushers try to pretend. And mind you, Spider-man 1 released by the time 80+ million PS4s had been sold, whereas Spider-man 2 released when the total number of PS5s sold were in the 40-50 million range by that point. So even though Spider-man 1 sales were slightly higher on their own (13 million after one year, so hard to gauge exactly), with full context it’s clear that demand was even higher for Spider-man 2 and continued to be high based on its continued momentum despite the vocal minority insisting the game was bad and that audiences were “fed up” with Insomniac and whatever other nonsense they spouted out.

Those same posters are currently calling it right now that ‘Wolverine won’t sell’ in a another active thread that’s still ongoing, with a few in there even being bold enough to claim that he isn’t that popular of a character…in the same year where a movie with his name in it broke box office records.

 

[Heimdall_Xtreme]

More local co-op games the better.
Uncharted lego could be fun too.

Gravity Rush lego is more beautiful and coop too!

 

[Gambit2483]

Most....as in who? Where's your study that says where these "most" folks are coming from?

SM2 is better than SM1, full stop.

Insomniac hasn't lost any good will. For whatever reason, you don't like it. But it has far less flaws than SM1 did, particularly when it comes to pacing and improved combat.

Google "Spider-Man 2 is disappointing" anywhere on the internet, YouTube or reddit and will find dozens upon dozens of articles, threads and videos with many people agreeing.

SM2 being better as far as visually or map size, sure, but I've seen more people than not argue that the story in SM2 is infinitely weaker, and there's worse side and post game content. And yes, people have lost blind faith in Insomniac. Read those aforementioned threads comment sections or hell even many threads here.

SM2 (and the Wolverine leaks) has damaged Insomniacs "can do no wrong" image. People are no longer giving them a blind pass for greatness.

 

[Cakeboxer]

“B-b-b-b-but the bundles! It didn’t actually sell well, trust us and our baseless theories!”

You are absolutely right if we talk about bundles in in times with enough supply. But you can't deny that it was super hard or even nearly impossibe to buy a PS5 from February 2022 to December 2022 without HFW or GOW2.
I don't know why everthing has to be so extreme when we talk about exclusives. Xbox fanboys be like "95% of the games only sold, because of the bundles" and PS fanboys be like "Every single bundle buyer would have bought the game anyways". The truth is, it 100% pushed the sales, but it would have sold well anyways.

 

[Kotaro]

hey Sony,

WE.

DON'T.

CARE!

 

[Loomy]

How could Hermen do this!

I just can’t imagine Horizon as a top franchise. If you like it great, I think it’s super bland and boring.

2 games and over 30 million copies sold.

More local co-op games the better.

Agreed. My 6 year old loved the Horizon, Uncharted, Ape Escape, etc levels in Astro Bot. And she has no emotional, or nostalgic attachment to any of those games.

 

[Doom85]

I've rarely if ever heard anyone claim that SM2 was "hated" or "detested" or anything on that level....but I have heard from an overwhelming amount of people that the game was disappointing in many aspects ranging from

- not enough content
- too safe of a sequel
- disappointing story that felt rushed in the 3rd act
- terrible characterizations of Peter and MJ
- contains too many political aspects and very out-of-place scenarios, dialog, and mission designs.

Let's be real. It sold well because it's Spider-Man, one of the greatest Superheroes of all time, has impressive visuals and fun gameplay despite the litany of aforementioned disappointing elements and numerous complaints.

I am being real, and you should read my original post more closely. If enough people agreed with you that these issues were as significant as you claimed, the game would not have continued to sell as well as it did after the initial few weeks. You can’t deny word of mouth. The first Joker movie made over a billion dollars, but look how quickly Joker 2’s box office dropped once word of mouth got out. The fact is with almost less than half as many PS5 owners as there were PS4 owners when each individual game came out, Spider-man 2 managed to pull an even larger percentage of the current gen console owners than the first game. If it was simply the IP and gameplay doing the heavy lifting, it would have been the other way around.

 

[DenchDeckard]

A lot of people on GAF who hate Horizon pretend the franchise isn't popular. Not that they just don't like it.

There's plenty of things on this planet that are extremely popular and absolute dog shit. Horizon fits perfectly into that category. Gaming for absolute normies.

it's just not my cup of tea in the slightest. it's like warmed up tramps piss...if someone likes that as a cup of tea...more power to them lol

 

[StueyDuck]

Google "Spider-Man 2 is disappointing" anywhere on the internet, YouTube or reddit and will find dozens upon dozens of articles, threads and videos with many people agreeing.

SM2 being better as far as visually or map size, sure, but I've seen more people than not argue that the story in SM2 is infinitely weaker, and there's worse side and post game content. And yes, people have lost blind faith in Insomniac. Read those aforementioned threads comment sections or hell even many threads here.

SM2 (and the Wolverine leaks) has damaged Insomniacs "can do no wrong" image. People are no longer giving them a blind pass for greatness.

Count me as one. I was a proper insomniac fanboy.

I'm not gonna touch anything they make going forward. People point to sales like it's some point they are making but the fact is the spiderman IP is stupidly strong and will boost the weakest of products in regards to sales.

If that game was called fling boy and had no association to spiderman we'd see alot more harsher criticism.

 

[pulicat]

“B-b-b-b-but the bundles! It didn’t actually sell well, trust us and our baseless theories!”

Let’s be real, if some people detest a game for whatever reason, they’ll spin any narrative they can to deny its success.

For example, there are people who act like Spider-man 2 did poorly and/or was widely detested. The FACTS show the game sold 5 million in 11 days, and then has sold over 11 million by April of 2024 so if the game was truly detested the word of mouth would have killed it by now but nope, clearly not the case no matter how the narrative pushers try to pretend. And mind you, Spider-man 1 released by the time 80+ million PS4s had been sold, whereas Spider-man 2 released when the total number of PS5s sold were in the 40-50 million range by that point. So even though Spider-man 1 sales were slightly higher on their own (13 million after one year, so hard to gauge exactly), with full context it’s clear that demand was even higher for Spider-man 2 and continued to be high based on its continued momentum despite the vocal minority insisting the game was bad and that audiences were “fed up” with Insomniac and whatever other nonsense they spouted out.

From last year leak, average sales price for Horizon Zero Dawn = $25.

 

[DevilHunterX0]

..would have prefered a Lego KillZone game

 

[Tiago Rodrigues]

Oh but Gaf told me this was Hermans idea? Gaf lied to me?

 

[Trilobit]

Man.. I'd buy the shit out of that.


I still have a such an hard time grasping the notion of games that are all about fighting robo dinosaurs/creatures freely roaming the open-world map, being "boring".
Especially the kind of creative machines you see in these games, with those designs, attack patterns and animations, and the snappy controls/precise combat at your disposal.
It's exactly the kind of game I was dreaming of as a kid while playing Pokémon on my GameBoy.

I've put over 100 hours into Forbidden West and had fun, but the poster is still accurate. The world and the NPCs in it are mind-numbingly boring. Every character feels like they went through a committee and was sanitized out of any rough edges. It feels like a kids game in that regard.

The robots are beyond amazing and cool and were made by people with rich imagination. But I couldn't help but feel that the story itself was told in a very dry and boring manner. I just wish they'd hire better writers for the third game and maybe spice up the world and people in it so that it feels more real.

 

[Tal Shiar Agent]

A lot of people on GAF who hate Horizon pretend the franchise isn't popular. Not that they just don't like it.

Misogyny. Pure and simple.

A main female character who's design isn't pure titillation (put her in some of those Carja outfits and look again)!!? Game must be artificially popular. /s

 

[Roman Empire]

More local co-op games the better.
Uncharted lego could be fun too.

I'd be down for an Uncharted Lego game. It'd make much more sense than an horizon for me, especially with Uncharted being an action adventure game focused on exploration of ancient ruins and settlements.

 

[Judge Magister]

Guerrilla's first franchise, "Killzone," was a dark, violent world that evoked real-world totalitarian imagery. The studio doesn't hesitate to declare its preference for the vibrant world of Horizon, which also features a diverse cast.

I think the themes that this story and the characters represent are relatable for all ages and people, like having a found family of friends and finding your place in the world.

oh how cute

GTFO

 

[Doom85]

From last year leak, average sales price for Horizon Zero Dawn = $25.

24.3 million units sold x $25 = $607.5 million.

Budget = $45 million.

Guerrilla =

 

[Doom85]

Google "Spider-Man 2 is disappointing" anywhere on the internet, YouTube or reddit and will find dozens upon dozens of articles, threads and videos with many people agreeing.

Oh come on now. I just Googled “Baldur’s Gate 3 is disappointing” and got a bunch of results. Funny, I could have swore the game was massively beloved and killed it in sales……

Why, it’s almost like the negative majority like to be heard especially when they can monetize it (seriously, do not blindly trust most “opinions” on YouTube of all places).

Marvel's Spider-Man Reviews

This isn't the Spider-Man you've known before, or seen in a movie. This is an experienced Peter Parker who is more masterful in fighting major crimes in New York City. At the same time he is struggling to balance his tumultuous personal life and career while the fate of nine million New Yorkers...

www.metacritic.com

Marvel's Spider-Man 2 Reviews

Spider-Men, Peter Parker and Miles Morales, return for an exciting new adventure in Marvel’s Spider-Man franchise for PS5. Swing, jump and utilize the new Web Wings to travel across Marvel’s New York, quickly switching between Peter Parker and Miles Morales to experience different stories and...

www.metacritic.com

In fact, its user score is one point higher than the first game! In fact, the Miles game is the one that’s a bit rougher, at 7.6 user score, not bad by any means but certainly not amazing. However, it seems the majority are satisfied with Spider-man 2.

 

[ZiggyPop1991]

Come on now. They're acting like this was some intense long-term collaboration or something. It was one set. Sonic, Mario and Minecraft have entire themes dedicated to them with dozens of sets each. If one set is enough to get them enthused for a Lego Horizon game, they must be on their knees, desperately begging for games based on those other franchises.

Are you single? The self felatio is wild.

 

[TheTurboFD]

LEGO Killzone will make me bust a nut

 

[PatientGamer]

Horizon's biggest problem is not the world building or the lore or story imho. Most of it is pretty good to great, and the concept imo is brilliant.

It's Aloy.

She's just dry AF, but I feel this is mainly due to how the actress portrays her.

If she is just written that way, then it's super sad. She literally has zero personality.

 

[Gambit2483]

I am being real, and you should read my original post more closely. If enough people agreed with you that these issues were as significant as you claimed, the game would not have continued to sell as well as it did after the initial few weeks. You can’t deny word of mouth. The first Joker movie made over a billion dollars, but look how quickly Joker 2’s box office dropped once word of mouth got out. The fact is with almost less than half as many PS5 owners as there were PS4 owners when each individual game came out, Spider-man 2 managed to pull an even larger percentage of the current gen console owners than the first game. If it was simply the IP and gameplay doing the heavy lifting, it would have been the other way around.

Maybe you didn't read my post. I said the game continued to sell well  despite these issues and complaints (yes, because of its IP and gameplay).

People around here can't seem to understand nuance and think if I'm saying the game was very disappointing I might as well be saying it was "bad" or "didn't sell well". That's actually  not what I'm saying at all.

You enjoyed the game, great for you. So did others, that doesn't mean a shit ton of people weren't disappointed with it AFTER playing through it. Wtf is this logic/argument going on here?