NoblesseOblige
Banned
We have members with all sorts of broken or out of whack moral compasses.
Let's talk about catcalling
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We have members with all sorts of broken or out of whack moral compasses.
Slightly off topic but in terms of objectification how do people in here react to to the old 'Diet Coke' break ads?
https://youtu.be/lmVexzzVfDA
If the girls whistled to him, would it be qualified as sexual harrassment?
Catcalling is moronic. If you find someone attractive, go and chat to them and give them a cheesy chat up line male or female. I agree with the OP in that I find it's ridiculous and has no place because you don't know what a person's sensibilities are, but just semantically if a bunch of girls wolf whistled or made suggestive comments to me as I walked past I'd attribute it to them being childish or dumb herd mentality and walk on. I wouldn't say to myself "I've just been sexually harrassed, I must report this" but again that's my mentality - so again agree it shouldn't be acceptable widely.
https://youtu.be/lmVexzzVfDA
If the girls whistled to him, would it be qualified as sexual harrassment?
Catcalling is moronic. If you find someone attractive, go and chat to them and give them a cheesy chat up line male or female. I agree with the OP in that I find it's ridiculous and has no place because you don't know what a person's sensibilities are, but just semantically if a bunch of girls wolf whistled or made suggestive comments to me as I walked past I'd attribute it to them being childish or dumb herd mentality and walk on. I wouldn't say to myself "I've just been sexually harrassed, I must report this" but again that's my mentality - so again agree it shouldn't be acceptable widely.
Saying/yelling sexually suggestive/provocative things to people as they pass, usually done by men to women.
Honestly, I'm not female so I can't profess to know how it would feel, but if someone told me on the street to 'smile, you're pretty' I would probably become enraged if I was.
If I had to hear that kind of shit daily I bet it drives people insane.
Palette Swap
Member
OP seems pretty uncontroversial to me.
Of course, it's harassment. That it seems benign to the one doing it doesn't change anything. It's obvious, but harassers are the last ones you should ask about what constitutes harassment.
Of course, it's harassment. That it seems benign to the one doing it doesn't change anything. It's obvious, but harassers are the last ones you should ask about what constitutes harassment.
"NotAllGamers" would fit you better.
Chuckie
Member
Yeah couple of times. Like in your case, it was always more than one woman.
One time two girls were shouting I was handsome and when I didn't react they started shouting I was ugly. Really mature
Sunster
Member
It's also harassment yes. but there is a power imbalance when men do it to women and that is where the intimidation and sometimes fear comes from. Women doing it is just as harassing but that's not a widespread issue.
If I have gotten it from women I can't remember it. I got it from men as a child a few times and the intimidation was there. A guy in a Walgreens said I looked like I had an open mind and wanted me to go back to a party with him. I think I was 12.
It hasn't happened yet... but when it does, oh boy!
My general rule would be "would you say it to a great looking guy?"
There are tons of things you can say to a woman to try and get a date, if that's what you're actually after.
PayOffWizard
Member
This is exactly whats confusing me. I 100% agree with the OP but the topic is called "lets talk about..." but you're basically asking people to agree with you, and heaven have mercy on those that don't .
If you disagree that catcalling is shitty ass behaviour or try to defend that fuckery then yes, heaven have mercy on you.
My intention was less to talk about "is catcalling bad?" and more examining ways in which we can react to it and stop it from happening, and the societal/cultural factors that lead to it.
ClosingADoor
Member
A total stranger telling you to behave a certain way based on your sex does not get you mad? And add to that it not happening once, but pretty much all the time in different forms.
No, it is not harmless.
Sadly, I think it takes men calling each other out for it to stop. When you see a friend doing this, tell them how messed up it is.
But most of the time, men don't even think about the issue, and it is invisible to us. The people not doing this, don't see it happening.
You're literally having someone tell you "smile so I can objectify you". It insists that all you're good for is to look good, and you should smile for everyone else. It's insulting. I'm not even a gal, and that would piss me off. It's not that hard to understand.
Are you a guy? Because I mean, that'd happen like once in a blue moon, if ever, for a guy. And maybe yea, you're thinking you'd like the attention from girls, maybe you'd see it as you being attractive. But imagine that happening at random times for the rest of your life, despite you just minding your business.
Hell, even hearing it once would be annoying af. Who the hell does a stranger think they are to randomly tell me to smile? I barely restrain myself from getting annoyed when my friends say it to me.
Shall I tell you the context of how this happened to me? I was going into town to get some shopping. I was tired and didn't feel well. I got to a traffic light and while I was waiting for the light to turn green some old guy walks up beside me, leers at me, and says creepily, "Smile, you're pretty." The light is still red and there are cars so I can't cross. Now I'm stuck with this weirdo until I can get away from him, not knowing what the fuck I'm supposed to say or do to get out of this. The only thing I can do is go back the way I came, but I'm too polite and goddammit, I'm going somewhere, I'm not going to let some creep dictate what I do. So I'm self-conscious, because he's made me acutely aware that I probably have a stinkface on, uncomfortable and scared because this guy is staring at me, and angry that he said that when he has no idea of my personal circumstances. The next time someone tells me something like that I'm going to tell them my grandmother just died and watch their reaction.
Massive Duck. C.M.
Banned
Catcalling is for wack dudes who don't wash their hands after taking a shit
Lol what
We have prolific posters who strongly downplay bigotry and harassment and in fact some who support it
The only thing you need to get in gaf is an email address and patience, not a preorder for sainthood
Lol what
We have prolific posters who strongly downplay bigotry and harassment and in fact some who support it
The only thing you need to get in gaf is an email address and patience, not a preorder for sainthood
Human Trashcan
Banned
lmao, you expect this post to go "I discovered it's a bad thing to do", but nope. you seem like a real """gem"""
CarpeDeezNutz
Member
Women cat call me with their female gaze.
Catcalling is one of the most bizarre things I learned that people do.
Not once in my entire life have I felt the need to say anything to an attractive woman in public going about her day or otherwise.
I just don't understand the behaviour at all, but I suppose many people lack empathy and don't even consider the other party when they act like creepy fucks.
Not once in my entire life have I felt the need to say anything to an attractive woman in public going about her day or otherwise.
I just don't understand the behaviour at all, but I suppose many people lack empathy and don't even consider the other party when they act like creepy fucks.
Hoho for breakfast
Member
I would just look and hopefully get eye contact and smile. Is that ok? I mean it basically all means the same thing but at least it's polite.
I'd never actually say anything except "hi" I imagine.
I'd never actually say anything except "hi" I imagine.
shira
Member
I think there is a huge difference between catcalling, pickupline, compliment, and creepy.
You can say the exact same phrase and have it interpreted each of those 4 different ways.
Unfortunately, a lot of people do not have the social skills or language mastery to pull them off or are able to tell them apart. Tiny little nuances in body language and facial expression and being able to read the other person's emotion and expression play a huge role. Understanding the social situation, age of both speakers, and tone of language used is also huge.
Yeah, that's a different level from propositioning someone, or telling them to fucking smile because you want to ogle them like they're some sort of centerfold in a magazine. It's not the same thing at all because it's polite.
To sum it up, be polite. Don't be a dick.
The OP is very concise. I like it.
I've never done this. But I've never thought of other people as being here for me, to be used.
That sounds a little preachy. And that's not who I am - I'm a bit of a brutish, unfeeling dunderhead if I'm honest. But I don't know why anyone could get something so fundamentally simple this wrong.
I've never done this. But I've never thought of other people as being here for me, to be used.
That sounds a little preachy. And that's not who I am - I'm a bit of a brutish, unfeeling dunderhead if I'm honest. But I don't know why anyone could get something so fundamentally simple this wrong.
It's a serious problem in my country.
http://www.euronews.com/2016/07/29/sexual-harassment-on-the-streets-of-portugal
http://www.euronews.com/2016/07/29/sexual-harassment-on-the-streets-of-portugal
ZehDon
Member
As a man, I've never experienced this directed at me, but nothing about this behaviour makes sense to me. No one seems to enjoy it, least of all the women on receiving end. So, I guess I don't really understand the urge or why it's still a thing. Do guys watch Bang Bus scenes a think "Hmmm, this documentary makes a good point, I will note this down in my book of things to do tomorrow"?
It's not really on the same level as sexual assault by a long shot, like I said, but it comes from a similar place.
Rape isn't something men resort to because they are incapable of keeping it in their pants and need to fuck something, it's because they want to exert power and dominance over another person.
On a much, much, much smaller scale, something like catcalling is 'exerting your dominance' over some random woman walking by. It's pathetic all around.
NoblesseOblige
Banned
Well clearly it doesn't happen to you then.
This very much so. Context is key.
I dressed up as Tarzan for a party once and got catcalled to hell in a bar, twas good fun and done in good spirits.
I walked past a group of drunk girls after finishing work late one night and they shouted 'hey, it's my friends hen do she needs a good seeing to' and it felt ugh but they were hammered so just ignored it.
The examples the OP describes (being stuck at the lights, being stared at continually, being told to smile when they are both alone) - shitty harrassment-esque
It's difficult for men to do like for like comparisons as I rarely feel intimidated by it, nor do some people generally have empathy enough to consider what the other may be feeling or indeed how they may feel about it context wise.
That's enough for me to say as a rule and in doubt, don't.
Sometimes called Wolf whistling?
Lollipop Dave
Member
I've always associated cat calling with the more sexual side of it, builders whistling, shouting "show us your tits, luv", those sort of comments. I don't understand how people can do this and not realise that it's wrong and what effects it could have on those passerby's.
On the other hand I always thought when people say stuff like "smile, you're pretty/handsome" (at least when it has been said to me) it was just them being nice and the 'you're xxxxx" was just added on to ry and cheer me up because I looked upset. More blissful ignorance than being harassing but after reading some of the posts here I can understand why it can be perceived as harassment.
On the other hand I always thought when people say stuff like "smile, you're pretty/handsome" (at least when it has been said to me) it was just them being nice and the 'you're xxxxx" was just added on to ry and cheer me up because I looked upset. More blissful ignorance than being harassing but after reading some of the posts here I can understand why it can be perceived as harassment.
Whistling when a girl walks by is the traditional definition.
You know, the stuff construction workers in movies do when some girl walks by and they all start calling out to her with sexual innuendo and whistling.
Real life examples:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b1XGPvbWn0A
It's a common term in the United States, and has been around for a long time. You've just never heard it before, but that's okay. It's one of those U.S. colloquialisms.
Sunster
Member
wolf whistling is the actual whistling though right?
Panthalassic
Member
I don't like guys trying to talk to me every time I walk 5 minutes to get food or go somewhere. It's bad in my country, but I've also had it happen to me in Canada, with guys yelling stuff at me from their car window.
I do my best to ignore it when it happens, but it really pisses me off when it does.
Don't do it.
I do my best to ignore it when it happens, but it really pisses me off when it does.
Don't do it.
TBiddy
Member
So telling a compliment doesn't classify then?
Sometimes it's hard to judge intent, but it gets wearisome with frequency.
Personally I'd much prefer a guy compliment what I've done with my hair or what I'm wearing than what I look like. Something akin to "I love that shirt!" or "your hair braids are gorgeous". The reason is because those things are things I've chosen, not things I was born with. It's complementing who I've chosen to be, not how effective nature was at producing a fuckable person.
I've just taken it as a catch all term, so like builders going "Oi oi darling, show us yer jubblies"
Prime crotch
Banned
When I was a kid, my mom would get looks or colorful calls in the street, even with my father alongside sometimes; she would play if off sometimes but some other times she would get mad and tell them off. And some people are just not right, like a regular in a coffee shop she would go to, would always try something new; if you don't put them in their place, people never learn.
As for my own actions, I've catcalled before when the context is all fun and games (meaning some basic familiarity with the other person), but it's a far cry from shouting off random strangers in the street.
As for my own actions, I've catcalled before when the context is all fun and games (meaning some basic familiarity with the other person), but it's a far cry from shouting off random strangers in the street.
Sometimes the intent can be innocent or ignorant, but think of it this way.
If you lived in a big city and heard people saying that to you dozens of times a day, would you not get irritated or sick to death of people saying it to you no matter the intent?
kinoki
Illness is the doctor to whom we pay most heed; to kindness, to knowledge, we make promise only; pain we obey.
I don't get men, most of the time. Catcalling is just plain stupid. What did they really expect. Feels like the amount of women who react positivly to it are few and far between. I guess that men can safely write them off as feminazis for not jumping into bed with them right then and there.
I've tried talking to other men about things like dickpics and how it's beyond creepy and some guys really respond with stupid stuff like "I'd just be happy if women sent me pictures of their breats" as if that would make it ok to send dickpics. It's a hard realisation that I have to raise a daugther in a world where men can't see what they're doing as harassment.
I've tried talking to other men about things like dickpics and how it's beyond creepy and some guys really respond with stupid stuff like "I'd just be happy if women sent me pictures of their breats" as if that would make it ok to send dickpics. It's a hard realisation that I have to raise a daugther in a world where men can't see what they're doing as harassment.
Well that is brilliant
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