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[Shamrock7r]

Why?

Oh wait, because you actually think I'm 16....?

I just stated I'm 23 a few posts ago.

Ya well your argument makes you sound like some 7th grade middle schooler who enjoys playing Shadow the Hedgehog and wanking it to Victoria Secrets catalogs while whining how the grownups don't trust and/or understand you.

 

[Ninja Scooter]

:lol

No sense? Okay, you want to argue what doesn't make sense?

Okay, fine with me.

The movie industry has worse content, yet most of the movies are on shelves, most of them are already in the hands of kids, REGARDLESS of the rating system.

Now, contrast this with the fact that retailers are CARDING younger gamers (we see this often in movie theaters, but I don't see it a lot in CD sales), and some retailers took off GTA (Coffee Table/Original version) from shelves. Do you see where I'm going here?

The movie industry has a mature rating-like rating....which is rated R.....Now, in this genre, we see all kinds of levels of explict content....Everything from blood, to naked babes, naked women....We have that in the game industry, but we also have AO...Why is M rated games being targeted, when there's a AO label in the system?

I could go on, and on....but I'm not gonna waste my time on idiots like yourself.

The problem with your argument is that nobody is trying to ban videogames, or take them off store shelves. They are just trying to put them in the SAME boat as music and movies. i got carded trying to buy a CD like 10 years ago. Its been going on for a long time. Just this past year i've seen teenagers carded at Blockbuster trying to rent R rated movies, and same thing when they try to get into R rated films at movie theatres. Retailers took GTA: Hot Coffee edition off store shelves because the ratings were proven to be inaccurate, going by the ESRB's own standards. It had "AO" content in an "M" rated game. If you have a problem with the standards and how games are regulated, take that up with the ESRB and, more importantly, the game companies themselves.

 

[CarlosX360]

Nintendo X, you change your reasoning for hating this with every other post. First you hate it because all decisions on a person's well-being should be left up to the parents, then you claim that makes videogames look worse then movies (how I don't know), then you spout out some garbage about it stunting videogame potential. What will be your reasoning next? Are you going to claim that we should protest this act to help free the Iraqi people?

I didn't change my reason...I still hate it because it SHOULD be left up to the parents.

There are VARIOUS reaosns why this should not happen, because it HURTS the industry the way they're run right now....

This is seriously a bad thing....It will hurt the developers, the publishers, the maketing departments of each company...It will hurt everything that has to do with development, and publishing....

The problem with your argument is that nobody is trying to ban videogames, or take them off store shelves. They are just trying to put them in the SAME boat as music and movies. i got carded trying to buy a CD like 10 years ago. Its been going on for a long time. Just this past year i've seen teenagers carded at Blockbuster trying to rent R rated movies, and same thing when they try to get into R rated films at movie theatres. Retailers took GTA: Hot Coffee edition off store shelves because the ratings were proven to be inaccurate, going by the ESRB's own standards. It had "AO" content in an "M" rated game. If you have a problem with the standards and how games are regulated, take that up with the ESRB and, more importantly, the game companies themselves.

I know nobody is trying to ban videogames....Its not about that. The fingerpointing is just rediculous..Heck, even my mother told me "Its just a video game" when they talked about violent video games. My mom and I are on the same wavelength about this issue. We both think this is all so stupid.

 

[Ninja Scooter]

I didn't change my reason...I still hate it because it SHOULD be left up to the parents.

There are VARIOUS reaosns why this should not happen, because it HURTS the industry the way they're run right now....

This is seriously a bad thing....It will hurt the developers, the publishers, the maketing departments of each company...It will hurt everything that has to do with development, and publishing....

explain this. Honestly, what do you mean? How is this going to hurt anything? If they enacted this w/o telling anyone you probably wouldn't have even noticed.

 

[ronito]

I didn't change my reason...I still hate it because it SHOULD be left up to the parents.

There are VARIOUS reaosns why this should not happen, because it HURTS the industry the way they're run right now....

This is seriously a bad thing....It will hurt the developers, the publishers, the maketing departments of each company...It will hurt everything that has to do with development, and publishing....

Somehow I don't think the guys at Rockstar are quaking in their boots.

 

[Shamrock7r]

I didn't change my reason...I still hate it because it SHOULD be left up to the parents.

There are VARIOUS reaosns why this should not happen, because it HURTS the industry the way they're run right now....

This is seriously a bad thing....It will hurt the developers, the publishers, the maketing departments of each company...It will hurt everything that has to do with development, and publishing....

Oh yes absolutely, screw the youth of the future so that the videogame industry can thrive just a little bit more.

 

[Rhindle]

Such a non-issue.

Well, I wouldn't go so far as to say this is a non-issue.

Once the government gets into the game of regulating who can watch what, it's a very slippery slope. The next wave of political grandstanding could involve banning certain content altogether, lest it fall into the hands of our precious children.

The industry needs to get its head out of its ass and self-regulate effectively like the movie-industry. Any chain that doesn't clamp down on sales to minors should be cut off by publishers.

 

[CarlosX360]

explain this. Honestly, what do you mean? How is this going to hurt anything? If they enacted this w/o telling anyone you probably wouldn't have even noticed.

Well, for one, the developers would have to dumb down the level of violence in their games, and try to cater the game to a crowd that WILL be buying the games. Of course, there will be a lot of people buying GTA type of games, but there will not be enough sales for the same game that was made famous because of this law...

Its the same analogy why movie franchises HAVE to be dumbed down in order to cater to a crowd that is ACCESSABLE. There ya go.

I'll use this argument now. Accesability will only help future games be more successful. Now consider this....Why did Aliens Vs. Predator get a lower rating than anticipated? When the past iritations of the series (on both fronts) have been more violent? Well, because they want to cater to a crowd that is accessable to the point that it would sell more more movies than making it a Rated R movie.

 

[chaostrophy]

Give parents less ability to bitch about gaming, because then it'd be against the fuckin' law for your kids to have it.

Sort of like how parents barely ever bitch about guns, tobacco, or porn since they're age-restricted? Oh wait...

Which is a good thing, 'cause kids shouldn't be having the M rated games anyhow.

Will someone who has a rational reason for believing this explain it to me? Please? I'm genuinely curious...it seems to be accepted as a given but I honestly don't get why.

 

[Ninja Scooter]

Well, for one, the developers would have to dumb down the level of violence in their games, and try to cater the game to a crowd that WILL be buying the games. Of course, there will be a lot of people buying GTA type of games, but there will not be enough sales for the same game that was made famous because of this law...

Its the same analogy why movie franchises HAVE to be dumbed down in order to cater to a crowd that is ACCESSABLE. There ya go.

I'll use this argument now. Accesability will only help future games be more successful. Now consider this....Why did Aliens Vs. Predator get a lower rating than anticipated? When the past iritations of the series (on both fronts) have been more violent? Well, because they want to cater to a crowd that is accessable to the point that it would sell more more movies than making it a Rated R movie.

AVP is one example. Movies and music, for the most part, are a lot more violent and raunchier than they were 10-15 years ago, and that is with stricter regulations. GTA will still be GTA as long as there is a market for it. I doubt Rockstar thinks a bulk of their audience is 11 year olds forking over $50+ for the next GTA game, so why would they dumb it down to cater to them?

 

[Odysseus]

The industry needs to get its head out of its ass and self-regulate effectively like the movie-industry. Any chain that doesn't clamp down on sales to minors should be cut off by publishers.

Exactly. If the industry had taken care of business, this wouldn't be in Congress.

 

[Shamrock7r]

Will someone who has a rational reason for believing this explain it to me? Please? I'm genuinely curious...it seems to be accepted as a given but I honestly don't get why.

Children have have not reached the age of development where they can make complete rational decisions on what is right and wrong, and what is the accepted moral code in most developed societies. They are still at an age where their minds are soaking in right from wrong, and an M rated or higher videogame can be detrimental to that.

 

[Odysseus]

Will someone who has a rational reason for believing this explain it to me? Please? I'm genuinely curious...it seems to be accepted as a given but I honestly don't get why.

A rational reason? What? I don't know, maybe cause the content has been rated for mature audiences? You know, the level of violence or the language or the sexual innuendo is not appropriate for children? Are you dumb by choice or something?

 

[Shamrock7r]

Exactly. If the industry had taken care of business, this wouldn't be in Congress.

Unfortunately that is what happens when you have an industry that is still maintaing major growth. They don't want to do anything that would stunt that growth.

 

[White Man]

Oh, who knows, this will even be hard on publishers, because it will drain their resources of cutting content, here and there...And they probbably have to make TWO versions instead of one.

Patently false. The same practice that's common in movies will be brought to the gaming industry.

Instead of a PG13 and an R rated version of a game, we'll just get the PG.

 

[ronito]

Well, for one, the developers would have to dumb down the level of violence in their games, and try to cater the game to a crowd that WILL be buying the games. Of course, there will be a lot of people buying GTA type of games, but there will not be enough sales for the same game that was made famous because of this law...

Its the same analogy why movie franchises HAVE to be dumbed down in order to cater to a crowd that is ACCESSABLE. There ya go.

I'll use this argument now. Accesability will only help future games be more successful. Now consider this....Why did Aliens Vs. Predator get a lower rating than anticipated? When the past iritations of the series (on both fronts) have been more violent? Well, because they want to cater to a crowd that is accessable to the point that it would sell more more movies than making it a Rated R movie.

What are you talking about? Dumbing down the level of violence. This is a bad thing? I, for one, would firstly be concerned about dumbing down the plot, or the gameplay, or a hundred other things before dumbing down the violence.

Further more and more gaming is becoming an older hobby. Rockstar will be able to still sell the same amount of copies to the people that should be playing GTA and not some eleven year old who's parent's can't be bothered to see what their kid is playing.

Countless R rated movies make millions, I don't see why games should be any different.

 

[heidern]

The restrictions only mean that there'll be censored games, not utilizing its full potential....Only pushing for the limits of games. Only trying to limit our games by a large margin...Think about it, why do you think a lot of movies suck? Because they need to cater to a crowd. This is going to change the gaming industry as we gamers know it.

That's just alarmist bullshit. How can I say that so decisively? I have concrete evidence.

Case study; The most controversial series Grand Theft Auto in the UK. This game is rated 18 by the BBFC. This means it is illegal to sell the game to anyone under the age of 18. These laws have not impacted games in the UK. We can tell this by the fact that the most extreme game of all, GTA was released and has broken all sorts of sales records. This is exactly what is being proposed with this new videogame regulation in the US. It is not going to make any material difference to the industry.

As for parents needing to do more parenting, this law supports that. Currently a 10 year old kid can go into a videogame store and buy GTA, and can do so while not telling his parents. This undermines parenting. Now however the kid will need an adult to purchase the game for him, usually this will be a parent. Thus this law will help empower parents since they can no longer shift the blame to game developers. If kids get their hands on unsuitable games the blame will be either entirely on the parents or on the retailer. The industry itself, developers and publishers will now have a nice way to avoid any blame and thus they can just get on with making good games.

Will someone who has a rational reason for believing this explain it to me? Please? I'm genuinely curious...it seems to be accepted as a given but I honestly don't get why.

Do you really think a game where you run over pedestrians, shoot police officers and hire prostitutes is in any way shape or form suitable for children?

 

[Odysseus]

Well, for one, the developers would have to dumb down the level of violence in their games, and try to cater the game to a crowd that WILL be buying the games. Of course, there will be a lot of people buying GTA type of games, but there will not be enough sales for the same game that was made famous because of this law...

Its the same analogy why movie franchises HAVE to be dumbed down in order to cater to a crowd that is ACCESSABLE. There ya go.

I'll use this argument now. Accesability will only help future games be more successful. Now consider this....Why did Aliens Vs. Predator get a lower rating than anticipated? When the past iritations of the series (on both fronts) have been more violent? Well, because they want to cater to a crowd that is accessable to the point that it would sell more more movies than making it a Rated R movie.

If games were toned down... so freaking what! Not that I think it's going to happen, but I hardly think it would be a bad thing if it did.

 

[CarlosX360]

AVP is one example. Movies and music, for the most part, are a lot more violent and raunchier than they were 10-15 years ago, and that is with stricter regulations. GTA will still be GTA as long as there is a market for it. I doubt Rockstar thinks a bulk of their audience is 11 year olds forking over $50+ for the next GTA game, so why would they dumb it down to cater to them?

I'm not talking about catering to an AUDIENCE.....I'm talking about catering to an ACCESSABLE, and more acceptable rating.

Imagine GTA with all of its glorious substance: Blood, sex, prositutions, plain old punch, and run..Plain old doing missions...Imagine that. Now, that's gonna be the way its going to be if this law goes into effect...

This is going to be reality, if this goes into effect, think hard...Game sales is a whole lot more deeper than you think...Its not about catering to a crowd of audience, its about making it accessable. AVP proves just that.

 

[White Man]

Imagine GTA with all of its glorious substance: Blood, sex, prositutions, plain old punch, and run..Plain old doing missions...Imagine that. Now, that's gonna be the way its going to be if this law goes into effect...

This is going to be reality, if this goes into effect, think hard...Game sales is a whole lot more deeper than you think...Its not about catering to a crowd of audience, its about making it accessable. AVP proves just that.

Are you drunk or something? You're not making a lick of sense. That first paragraph is just shy of completely incoherent. If I had a 12 year old son, I certainly wouldn't want him playing something like San Andreas.

 

[ronito]

I'm not talking about catering to an AUDIENCE.....I'm talking about catering to an ACCESSABLE, and more acceptable rating.

Imagine GTA with all of its glorious substance: Blood, sex, prositutions, plain old punch, and run..Plain old doing missions...Imagine that. Now, that's gonna be the way its going to be if this law goes into effect...

This is going to be reality, if this goes into effect, think hard...Game sales is a whole lot more deeper than you think...Its not about catering to a crowd of audience, its about making it accessable. AVP proves just that.

You honestly think that Rockstar is going to change the way they make games because of this???

They've always said they don't make kids games, they don't want to make kids games, they don't want to sell kids games.

 

[CarlosX360]

Countless R rated movies make millions, I don't see why games should be any different.

Explain to me why AVP got dumbed down.

I know R rated movies get millions...but not to the point that it gets on the top of the records...like most movies do.

In the game industry its a whole different ball game in awards...

Are you drunk or something? You're not making a lick of sense. That first paragraph is just shy of completely incoherent. If I had a 12 year old son, I certainly wouldn't want him playing something like San Andreas.

How can you not understand that first paragraph? Hmm? I mean imagine a game without all of the substance that made GTA famous...That's going to be reality if senators go too far with this law...At least I think so.

And I agree, I wouldn't want my children play mature games such as GTASA...I'm gonna be responsible for him....and I'll do my parenting, but its not about who is willing to do this, or not...Its about the finger pointing...The parents are just blaming the game industry, because the children are getting their hands on the games, therefore, its the publishers' fault.....That was their analogy when the situation first went to the forefront of the congress.....When its supposed to be the retailer's fault, and the parent's fault.

 

[whytemyke]

Most stores already support this kind of actions anyways, and let me tell ya, it's a good thing. I can't tell you how many parents I had that'd buy GTA for their 7 year old kid when I worked at best buy. Nor can I tell you how often I'll play SOCOM only to have a 5 year old on the other end, talking about killing someone like it's fucking christmas day. "I killed him! Yayyy!"

Like it or not, gamers, parents DONT take responsibility for their kids, and if this is the only thing that's asked of the game industry-- keep M/AO games out of the hands of anyone under 17-- then I say that's a damn fair price. At least now the ESRB will finally serve a purpose, too.

It sucks. I wish we didn't have to hold these parents by the hand. but we do. if this is the worst thing that happens.... fine. the only people this will piss off are the minors who want to play cool games anyways. sucks to be them. grow up... ability to play cool shit is the least adults deserve for having to pay taxes.

 

[Amir0x]

Sort of like how parents barely ever bitch about guns, tobacco, or porn since they're age-restricted? Oh wait...

That's not what I said. I said this would give parents less ability to bitch. It doesn't mean they'll stop bitching. We'll still probably hear a lot from their mouths. But, who the fuck cares. 'Cause then kids buying mature games would be illegal, and the industry would have gone as far as it could without restricting rights. So of course some parents will still bitch, but we'll just laugh at them more.

Will someone who has a rational reason for believing this explain it to me? Please? I'm genuinely curious...it seems to be accepted as a given but I honestly don't get why.

Well, no, if you feel it's fine for kids under 18 or 17 to play mature games, that's fine. I don't, for various reasons already described in this thread, and so I support this bit. You don't have to support it, of course.

 

[ronito]

Explain to me why AVP got dumbed down.

I know R rated movies get millions...but not to the point that it gets on the top of the records...like most movies do.

In the game industry its a whole different ball game in awards...

Ummm AVP got dumbed down because someone in marketing thought "Hey! This will be a swell way to make some money." Yet for every AVP out there you have 3 Matrixs and a ton of other movies that are rated R without being dumbed down.

About the R rated movies not breaking records it's just a matter of numbers. Look at the top selling movies, LotR, Harry Potter, ET, disney they're all movies that people will watch in groups. Finding Nemo I'd take my wife and two kids to see that. Not so with an R rated movie.
Still a movie doesn't need to be in the top 10 money makers ever to pull a very nice profit.

 

[White Man]

And I agree, I wouldn't want my children play mature games such as GTASA...I'm gonna be responsible for him....and I'll do my parenting, but its not about who is willing to do this, or not...Its about the finger pointing...The parents are just blaming the game industry, because the children are getting their hands on the games, therefore, its the publishers' fault.....That was their analogy when the situation first went to the forefront of the congress.....When its supposed to be the retailer's fault, and the parent's fault.

So basically, you think elementary school children should be able to fuck their teachers and do heroin if their parents aren't watching out for them?

 

[CarlosX360]

So basically, you think elementary school children should be able to fuck their teachers and do heroin if their parents aren't watching out for them?

*Reads my post again* What?

Where in the fuck did I say THAT?

 

[White Man]

*Reads my post again* What?

Where in the fuck did I say THAT?

You apparently think that parents should be there to shield their kids from the bad things they can access without their knowledge, without the help of the law.

 

[CarlosX360]

You apparently think that parents should be there to shield their kids from the bad things they can access without their knowledge, without the help of the law.

Exactly. I mean, think about it, why do you think parents guard their children from R rated movies? Hmm? Because of the laws? No, wrong. Its because of the rating system on the boxes. Like, when I was a kid, I brought Batman as a "watch" with your classmates thing...and my teacher used parenting on me by saying "no that will not be watched." Funny how I remembered that, that was when I was a 10 year old.

But I don't think that kids should rape a teacher or some stupid shit like that.

 

[Shamrock7r]

Ok, obviously simple logic isn't getting through to some of you so I will try to dumb it down enough so that maybe you can comprehend why you shouldn't be so damn upset and dead set against this act.


-If you support having no restrictions to the distribution of videogames to consumers then you also support the following:

-The selling of cigarettes, medicine, alcohol, and guns to minors.


-If you don't support the selling of cigarettes, medicine, alcohol, and guns to minors, but support having no restrictions to the distribution of videogames to consumers then you are the following:

-A damn hypocrite


-So you have the following three choices:

-You can stick to your guns, allow the selling of anything to minors, and simply be ridiculously stupid, but at least consistent.

-Selecively choose what should and shouldn't be regulated based around your own personal needs and hobbies. In other words, you would be a hypocrite and ridiculously stupid.

-See the error in your ways and join the land of logic.

 

[CarlosX360]

That's obviously a sarcasm.

You obviously hate me, so you made that list soley for me. So...bleh.

 

[Shamrock7r]

That's obviously a sarcasm.

You obviously hate me, so you made that list soley for me. So...bleh.

I don't hate you, I just think you are misguided and stupid when it comes to this subject, and I am trying to get you to understand why your argument is so ridiculous, but you seem to just ignore my points.

 

[Scrow]

no big deal.

but but but....

The bill, to be called "The Family Entertainment Protection Act," will prohibit the sale of adult-themed games to minors.

kids should be able to play adult-themed games! rah rah rah

So basically, you think elementary school children should be able to fuck their teachers and do heroin if their parents aren't watching out for them?

yeah, if their parents aren't looking out for them, the government shouldn't either...

:lol

The problem with your argument is that nobody is trying to ban videogames, or take them off store shelves. They are just trying to put them in the SAME boat as music and movies. i got carded trying to buy a CD like 10 years ago. Its been going on for a long time. Just this past year i've seen teenagers carded at Blockbuster trying to rent R rated movies, and same thing when they try to get into R rated films at movie theatres.

yep, years ago even i was carded* for renting soft-core porn from a video rental store (don't ask why I was renting soft-core porn... it's not why you think). Video game retailers never ask in my experience.


*i'm in Australia btw

 

[CarlosX360]

I don't hate you, I just think you are misguided and stupid when it comes to this subject, and I am trying to get you to understand why your argument is so ridiculous, but you seem to just ignore my points.

So, EVERYTHING I said in this thread is ridiculous because you don't agree with it?

EVERYTHING I said is stupid as you say it is....because you think that gaming will do just fine with the law?

Okay. I get what you're saying.

You're saying "You're an idiot that needs to make more sense!" in a scarcastic way...

I mean, how can this thread not make sense? Other than the fact that I'm 23, and not a teenager ranting? Hmm?

 

[chaostrophy]

Children have have not reached the age of development where they can make complete rational decisions on what is right and wrong, and what is the accepted moral code in most developed societies. They are still at an age where their minds are soaking in right from wrong, and an M rated or higher videogame can be detrimental to that.

Thank you for the response. It's not quite what I was looking for though...I probably didn't ask the question clearly enough. To clarify: why do you believe M-rated games are detrimental to development of moral sense in children? I'm curious about where the belief comes from. Personal experience from your own childhood or that of someone you know? Scientific research you've read? Observations of random people you've encountered in day to day life? News stories or editorials?

It may seem like an academic or trivial question, but some answers would help me understand the other side of this debate better.

To maybe help the other side understand my side better, my main reasoning why M-rated games aren't necessarily bad for kids is that they provide a visceral but safe way to let out violent tendencies. I had plenty of those tendencies in my early to mid teens, possibly due to being the stereotypical nerd that got picked on a lot, and possibly due to just being a member of a species that has had violent tendencies throughout its history on the earth. Playing Doom or Mortal Kombat was like therapy to me. Of course, not every kid is going to have the same reaction to a piece of media. But many of my friends in middle and high school felt the same way I did. Years later, shortly after the Columbine shootings, a webpage called Voices from the Hellmouth that collected the writings of a lot of "outsider"
kids proved that this wasn't an uncommon sentiment.

 

[Shamrock7r]

So, EVERYTHING I said in this thread is ridiculous because you don't agree with it?

EVERYTHING I said is stupid as you say it is....because you think that gaming will do just fine with the law?

Okay. I get what you're saying.

You're saying "You're an idiot that needs to make more sense!" in a scarcastic way...

I mean, how can this thread not make sense? Other than the fact that I'm 23, and not a teenager ranting? Hmm?

No, I have given you plenty of proven points that explain why your argument is stupid and instead of confronting those points you are trying to avoid them by beating around the bush and implying I've said things that in reality I haven't.

 

[CarlosX360]

No, I have given you plenty of proven points that explain why your argument is stupid and instead of confronting those points you are trying to avoid them by implying I've said things that in reality I haven't.

I'm not answering them, largely because you are painting me into a corner saying I'm a "stupid hypocrit."

The post seems too biased for my taste.

 

[etiolate]

I have no problem with saying kids can't purchase M rated games.

What does worry me is that people who don't understand the industry or games at all are making the laws and decisions about them, because the industry thinks it's too good to show self responsibility.

Of course, Hillary and Lieberman being involved is never a good thing.

 

[Shamrock7r]

Thank you for the response. It's not quite what I was looking for though...I probably didn't ask the question clearly enough. To clarify: why do you believe M-rated games are detrimental to development of moral sense in children? I'm curious about where the belief comes from. Personal experience from your own childhood or that of someone you know? Scientific research you've read? Observations of random people you've encountered in day to day life? News stories or editorials?

It may seem like an academic or trivial question, but some answers would help me understand the other side of this debate better.

To maybe help the other side understand my side better, my main reasoning why M-rated games aren't necessarily bad for kids is that they provide a visceral but safe way to let out violent tendencies. I had plenty of those tendencies in my early to mid teens, possibly due to being the stereotypical nerd that got picked on a lot, and possibly due to just being a member of a species that has had violent tendencies throughout its history on the earth. Playing Doom or Mortal Kombat was like therapy to me. Of course, not every kid is going to have the same reaction to a piece of media. But many of my friends in middle and high school felt the same way I did. Years later, shortly after the Columbine shootings, a webpage called Voices from the Hellmouth that collected the writings of a lot of "outsider"
kids proved that this wasn't an uncommon sentiment.

I understand where you are coming from. In a perfect world we would be able to determine the needs and limitations of each child individually, and set rules and regulations accordingly. Unfortuanately we don't have the money or the manpower for such an act so we have to create these broad laws based around an average and hope for the best. It isn't perfect, but then again we can't be perfect so we will have to settle.

Unfortunately I don't have any links to any experiments or case studies detailing the effects violent videogames, movies, or images can have on a child, and I will try and look a few up tommorow, but they have been done and the results go hand and hand with what I said earlier. Another way to look at it is the age difference, and thus difference in beliefs between... say an 80 year old and an 8 year old. There is a reason people are always pointing out how as you get older it gets harder and harder to change. That is because your brain soaks up knowledge at a faster rate when you are young then when you reach that elderly stage, so instead of learning new things, you stick with what you are familiar with.

Also there is the whole respecting one's autonomy that might get lost as a child is introduced to violent acts at an early age.

 

[CarlosX360]

What does worry me is that people who don't understand the industry or games at all are making the laws and decisions about them, because the industry thinks it's too good to show self responsibility.

And we have a winner. Very good.

Ehh....I mean.....QFT.

 

[Shamrock7r]

I'm not answering them, largely because you are painting me into a corner saying I'm a "stupid hypocrit."

The post seems too biased for my taste.

What exactly am I biased for? I am posting on a videogame forum. You would think I would be biased against the act.

I honestly don't think you could offer a rebuttal to any of those points.

 

[CarlosX360]

-If you support having no restrictions to the distribution of videogames to consumers then you also support the following:

-The selling of cigarettes, medicine, alcohol, and guns to minors.


-If you don't support the selling of cigarettes, medicine, alcohol, and guns to minors, but support having no restrictions to the distribution of videogames to consumers then you are the following:

-A damn hypocrite


-So you have the following three choices:

-You can stick to your guns, allow the selling of anything to minors, and simply be ridiculously stupid, but at least consistent.

-Selecively choose what should and shouldn't be regulated based around your own personal needs and hobbies. In other words, you would be a hypocrite and ridiculously stupid.

-See the error in your ways and join the land of logic.

I want you to look at this post again and tell me that's NOT biased.

There are three bolded options: A. B. C.

B and C are the negative sides....And A is the ONLY positive side...Or shall I say, your kind of people; "The cool people."

READ the post again, and THINK hard.

 

[Shamrock7r]

I want you to look at this post again and tell me that's NOT biased.

There are three bolded options: A. B. C.

B and C are the negative sides....And A is the ONLY positive side...Or shall I say, your kind of people; "The cool people."

READ the post again, and THINK hard.

I love how you quoted "The cool people", as if someone here (and I am presuming you meant me) said it. Putting words in my mouth...

I went ahead and took your advice and re-read my post, and I see nothing wrong with it, but I will tell you what, since you are implying that my choices are somehow wrong, or that there is more than one positive side, then please enlighten me.

Seriously please, I cannot see the error in the choices I have layed ouit, so let me know. Criticize it to hell. If you think they are ridiculous, let me know, but please let me know why you think they are ridiculous. Don't leave me in the dark here. Is there another positive choice? Are the other two choices not negative? Please let me know.

 

[Cronox]

This thread is really bad. Anyone familiar with the issues should know why this news is a bad thing for video games. As has been said in countless places within the video game media, games shouldn't be placed in the same arena as porn and drugs. It belongs with other media forms. The ESRB is a fine self-regulation tool, and with time and storefront cooperation become as well followed as the movie industry's. We should be supporting the ESRB, not this bill, which hopefully won't pass into law.

 

[Pakman]

Oh hell yes Ninentdo X. I agree with you 100%! Even though is obvious that most parents don't know what the hell the difference is between GTA and Animal Crossing; I say to hell with protecting the youth of America from games like GTA! And why? Well duh! Because I to am worried some developers may try to cater to the larger audience by cutting back on cop killing and beating prostitutes with bats! I mean look at what catering to the larger audience did to our precious AVP movie! It could've been sooooo great! But noooooo they dumbed it down! To hell with the youth of America!

 

[CarlosX360]

I love how you quoted "The cool people", as if someone here (and I am presuming you meant me) said it. Putting words in my mouth...

I went ahead and took your advice and re-read my post, and I see nothing wrong with it. But I will tell you what, since you are implying that my choices are somehow wrong, or that there is more than one positive side, then please enlighten me.

Seriously please, I cannot see the error in the choices I have layed ouit, so let me know. Criticize it to hell. If you think they are ridiculous, let me know, but please let me know why you think they are ridiculous. Don't leave me in the dark here. Is there another positive choice? Are the other two choices not negative? Please let me know.

*Sigh.* Idiot.

Look at the overuse of "ridiculous" and "stupid"............IN THE SAME POST.

 

[Shamrock7r]

*Sigh.* Idiot.

Look at the overuse of "ridiculous" and "stupid"............IN THE SAME POST.

Would you like me to say "foolish" or "morally wrong"? Will that be enough to where you could actually argue any of my points or will you continue to avoid doing so?

edit: I was trying to drive in a point, which is why I repeated the phrase, "ridiculously stupid".

 

[Cronox]

Last thing I do to help this thread. Look specifically at the ESRB's response. And no I'm not quoting it for you.

 

[CarlosX360]

Would you like me to say "foolish" or "morally wrong"? Will that be enough to where you could actually argue any of my points or will you continue to avoid doing so?

Yes. I'm avoiding everything you say.

I mean, I don't support kids getting their hands on Mature games, nor do I approve of kids smoking, using guns, killing, and so on and on....but I don't support the Bill....I don't even support Liberman...

I understand ESRB, I've grown accustomed to ESRB, and quite frankly, I don't have anything against them...In fact, I support them now than I did in my teenage prime. The only thing I don't support is the BILL. I've been against the idea of this happening since I was teen.

Last thing I do to help this thread. Look specifically at the ESRB's response. And no I'm not quoting it for you.

I'll do my part:

Parents need to get involved
Although NIMF is generally very displeased with the ratings system and retailer performance on the whole, the organization recognizes that parents need to take more responsibility as well. The problem, however, is that according to NIMF's surveys there appears to be a widening gap between the games kids are playing and what parents are aware of.

"Half of the parents who participated in our survey said they do not allow their children to play M-rated games, but nearly two-thirds of surveyed students said they owned their own M-rated game. What explains this gap? Maybe this statistic: only half of the parents say they were with their children the last time they purchased a game," states the report card. "In the light of the video game industry's growing power, and its recent lack of concern for its customers, parents have a greater responsibility than ever to be aware of their kids' video game habits."

As usual, the report card also contains a "parent alert" that list titles that parents should avoid for their children and teens. Some of these include Far Cry, Doom 3: Resurrection of Evil, God of War, GTA: Liberty City Stories, Resident Evil 4, The Warriors, among others. Interestingly, NIMF includes one "T" rated game as well: Namco's Urban Reign, which asks the gamer to protect the leader of a gang.

 

[XMonkey]

Somewhat off-topic, but at a local game store their X360 demo kiosk said that you had to be 17+ years old to play it. I found it silly, but at least that let me play and not the little kiddies in the store. If they bothered to follow it at all, that is.