Life is Strange | Spoiler Thread

Yeah... we're in agreement then. We're both saying they promoted choices having meaning, but at the end they said, "ha ha just kidding, it all meant nothing!" The difference is you think it was on purpose as a "twist" where I just think it was poor follow through.

"Twist" wasn't the right word (wrote that post on a phone on a busy train) but I think it's a sound thematic conclusion. 'All we did was fuck stuff up, let's fix all of it'.

I also felt that all of our choices and how things panned out (up until the ending) were still totally valid. The game didn't invalidate everything we did by giving us a binary choice in the end. The journey was still fantastic and still affected us and made us consider every choice. That's the point.

Also lol we're not in agreement at all.

Just because something happened in another game, doesn't make it apply to all games ever, so "didn't you play X" really isn't an argument at all. And your explanation is even less satisfying than everything else. You're not changing anything, you're really not doing anything at all other than deciding what reality the PC Max occupies. What does that even matter?

You seem to be really digging for a linear, conclusive follow-through on all the choices in the game. You want the game to validate your choices, to make them important.

But it doesn't, and that's the point. The game is about the fact that your choices don't matter (or make things worse). It makes that pretty clear, and on top of all of it, the journey is what the experience is all about ("coming of age") and it absolutely nails that.

All the things that happened - Kate living or dying, euthanising Chloe or not - all those things still really happened. That is how they would happen. It's just in the end you overwrote them. They still happened and that is still how they went down. Subjective experience is king in Life Is Strange's time travel narrative. That's the point - Max is the only one who sees all sides of the cube at once, it's all real. It's not invalidated by the final choice.

TL;DR: this:

Man you guys must've been disappointed as hell by Majora's Mask, or Groundhog Day.

Trying to apply standard linear narrative progression to time travel stories is silly.
 
I guess we'll have to disagree here. And this is what I meant about this viewpoint being ultimately selfish. You are saying here, the other people don't matter. So there you go.

You would have to be morally incapable of time traveling, then. Any amount of time travel, no matter how trivial, automatically ends the "existence", by your definition, of every other person in the world and replaces them with their past selves.

Is this really your stance?
 
I really wanted a Steins;gate ending for this

S;G spoilers with LiS comparisons
In S;G Okabe gets a choice between saving Mayuri, and saving Makise. Makise convinces him to save Mayuri. This is basically where LiS ends, especially comparable to chloe convincing Max to save arcadia bay, however in S;G after sacrificing Makise and resolving himself that thats the end, Okabe is convinced by a combination of his future self and Suzuha that he needs to keep fighting, and another option is possible.

The end of LiS feels lukewarm, after that whole adventure I really wanted triumph at the end, but it really does seem like the standard for choice games to give you a couple sad options and make you pick one. Still the journey is fantastic and I can still save Chloe at the end, even if the whole bay has to die in her place.
 
You would have to be morally incapable of time traveling, then. Any amount of time travel, no matter how trivial, automatically ends the "existence", by your definition, of every other person in the world and replaces them with their past selves.

Is this really your stance?
What are you even talking about? This isn't what I said at all. This isn't even remotely the issue I had wi... I need to reread what I typed to figure out where this interpretation you have came from.


I also felt that all of our choices and how things panned out (up until the ending) were still totally valid. The game didn't invalidate everything we did by giving us a binary choice in the end. The journey was still fantastic and still affected us and made us consider every choice. That's the point.
OK, answer this, during the week, what validity did the the choices you made regarding Dana specifically have to Dana? I am well aware things still happened to Max, but Max isn't the only one who exists.

You seem to be really digging for a linear, conclusive follow-through on all the choices in the game. You want the game to validate your choices, to make them important.
Not even important, just somehow (even mildly) relevant to the outside world external of Max. Everything was erased from reality in the sacrifice Chloe ending.
That's the thing, reality isn't simply subjective, things you do actually do have consequences to real people outside of yourself.


But it doesn't, and that's the point. The game is about the fact that your choices don't matter (or make things worse). It makes that pretty clear, and on top of all of it, the journey is what the experience is all about ("coming of age") and it absolutely nails that.
A game that made a big point in its promotion about how your choices matter was really a game showing your choices don't matter...

All the things that happened - Kate living or dying, euthanising Chloe or not - all those things still really happened. That is how they would happen. It's just in the end you overwrote them. They still happened and that is still how they went down. Subjective experience is king in Life Is Strange's time travel narrative. That's the point - Max is the only one who sees all sides of the cube at once, it's all real. It's not invalidated by the final choice.
Obviously I'm not explaining things right. So let me try this. With the way the developers promoted the game, and with the method of Time reversal of the main game, think of the week that the game too place like a lump of clay.
Using her time powers, Max meticulously molded the clay, correcting mistakes, building an elaborate sculpture. Each choice you made shapes the sculpture as you progress. And that's what the game was promoting. And then at the end of the game, when there was a decent variety of different shapes that you could have molded your sculpture into, you're left with the option of smashing it with a hammer, only to collect the broken remnants, or dissolving it into a lump of clay again. No matter the memories you have, that sculpture is no more. I would have personally liked to feel that my sculpture continued on. I fully understand you're satisfied with the act of making the sculpture, I enjoyed that aspect too, but I'd also have liked an ending where the actual shape your sculpture took was relevant, and lived on in the narration. Objectively anyway, not just in your fond memories of building before you were given the binary choice.
 
How can you reconcile "other people matter" with time travel?

Trivial example: You talk Warren somewhere. You rewind time. You don't talk to Warren this time around.

You made a connection with Warren but after the time travel the connection only exists in your mind. Is this "selfish"?
 
How can you reconcile "other people matter" with time travel?

Trivial example: You talk Warren somewhere. You rewind time. You don't talk to Warren this time around.

Is this "selfish"?
No it's not selfish... it's a scenario. Selfish would be if after this scenario you do not recognize that you erased the conversation and that for Warren it didn't happen. That for Warren it didn't happen, but you put the same meaning in that conversation as you would for a conversation you and Warren actually had that he himself experienced.

To your edit:
You made a connection with Warren but after the time travel the connection only exists in your mind. Is this "selfish"?
Well if you still think of it as a connection, yes. What about Warren? Is it a connection for him? Did you even consider that?
 
Stumbling in to say I enjoyed the finish, though my wife and I firmly agreed the "Arcadia Bay" ending was the only realistic option given everything she'd been through. I suppose we just didn't feel that it should be a binary option at that point in time, that Max at least had a few options in the past she didn't try (what happens if they manage to kill Nathan, for example?) My wife commented that she thought "Chloe" was the real ending simply because of the much lengthier ending.

Anyway, to the topic at hand, yeah, I do agree they didn't go into the vortex and cause-and-effect very well. Makes me think of - of course - the film Primer, and the impact that time travel has in that film: (heavy film spoilers)
They are effectively redubbing a tape, so going back eventually causes nose bleeds and forms of dyslexia/motor control issues, but more importantly going back does not erase the person they were then, creating clones of themselves that all had the same lives and no guarantee that they would even work together. A kind of feedback loop that goes out of control, similar to the LiS vortex in a way.

So I kind of agree it's a bit of a missed opportunity, but the whole thing was so enjoyable start to finish that I can forgive that and hope another game happens in a similar vein.
 
Selfish would be if after this scenario you do not recognize that you erased the conversation and that for Warren it didn't happen.
I don't think Max is doing that at all. It's a weight she'll carry for the rest of her life.

That for Warren it didn't happen, but you put the same meaning in that conversation as you would for a conversation you and Warren actually had that he himself experienced.
This just goes back to the dead man hypothetical. I don't lose the meaning behind my experiences if those I come in contact with forget about me or are dead.

I don't think there is an objective reality and even if there was it has no bearing on my life whatsoever. You're also applying a third person omniscient perspective to a first person subjective narrative in which causality is malleable. Where is the sense in that?

Well if you still think of it as a connection, yes. What about Warren? Is it a connection for him?
I don't understand. To interact with someone is to connect with them. It may be an insubstantial connection in the grand scheme of things but it is a connection nonetheless. Are you delineating a boundary at which connections become meaningful?
 
I don't understand. To interact with someone is to connect with them. It may be an insubstantial connection in the grand scheme of things but it is a connection nonetheless. Are you delineating a boundary at which connections become meaningful?


I'm sure he just means connection as in a emotional connection since you mentioned Warren. Rather than just interactions of interactions :P
 
Emotions are subjective too! If you hug Warren you're hugging a friend but Warren is probably thinking "GO APE".

There isn't a way to know for certain, no objective truth to the hug beyond the simple, physical act of it, only assumptions and memories.
 
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(Not to distract from any of these interesting discussions here but I found this funny and thought I post it here.)
 
I don't think Max is doing that at all. It's a weight she'll carry for the rest of her life.

No, I'm saying that's what you're doing. I believe Max totally realized she erased the last week, and that none of the events happened outside of her own memory. That to everybody else around her, they didn't. Whether or not Max will remember them was never in dispute.

This just goes back to the dead man hypothetical. I don't lose the meaning behind my experiences if those I come in contact with forget about me or are dead.
See? You only concern yourself with yourself. This is why I said selfish. Only concerning yourself. Ignoring that there's a whole other person involved.

And it isn't the same as the dead man... They had the connection up until they died, and then it was severed, leaving the living person the memory of the connection... But time travel is different because time involved was erased, and the still existing other person does not remember the interaction because it didn't happen to them. There is no connection for them. Look at it from their perspective. Not just your own.

I don't think there is an objective reality and even if there was it has no bearing on my life whatsoever. You're also applying a third person omniscient perspective to a first person subjective narrative in which causality is malleable. Where is the sense in that?
With or without an objective reality, there are other people experiencing their own subjective reality.

I don't understand. To interact with someone is to connect with them. It may be an insubstantial connection in the grand scheme of things but it is a connection nonetheless. Are you delineating a boundary at which connections become meaningful?
You didn't answer my question, is it a connection for Warren? I totally recognize that Max has memories of these events, but she has to recognize that she changed the past so it didn't happen. Or else why make changes at all? Why save someone from being hurt? You recognize that you are making actual changes so the events didn't happen. The changes you keep take priority.
 
Okay I see the conflict here.

There is no meaningful boundary between myself and Max. I attribute meaning to the encounters she erased because she does, because I made those choices along with her, because I felt the consequences of those choices along with her.

I am not literally the Max I played, but close enough that I don't think I can clearly say "Max did this" or "I did this". There was only ever Max/me. I leave Life is Strange in the same way Max leaves one reality for another, as she moves between the Maxes of time. She is the sum of her experiences, time traveling and all, as I am the sum of my life... Including the stories I visit, including my brief tenure as Max.
 
Not sure is this was discussed already in here but what if a large amount of time passed between when the storm hit and when Chloe and Max drove out of town? Like what if it was a few days? Maybe they did go through the wreckage. The road was clear(ish) of debris and that one body had a sheet over it. Also, the ring on Chloe's finger. It was gold. Maybe it was Joyce's? Maybe they left it open for us to interpret? Want Joyce alive? Okay then she is. Everyone dead? Okay then everyone is dead. Just a thought.
 
Not sure is this was discussed already in here but what if a large amount of time passed between when the storm hit and when Chloe and Max drove out of town? Like what if it was a few days? Maybe they did go through the wreckage. The road was clear(ish) of debris and that one body had a sheet over it. Also, the ring on Chloe's finger. It was gold. Maybe it was Joyce's? Maybe they left it open for us to interpret? Want Joyce alive? Okay then she is. Everyone dead? Okay then everyone is dead. Just a thought.

We already know that the ending was vaguer than the developers wanted it to be due to lack of budget. I think the possibility that a long amount of time between the storm and Max and Chloe driving through the town is commonly assumed, due to how the ending is presented.
 
Okay I see the conflict here.

There is no meaningful boundary between myself and Max. I attribute meaning to the encounters she erased because she does, because I made those choices along with her, because I felt the consequences of those choices along with her.

I am not literally the Max I played, but close enough that I don't think I can clearly say "Max did this" or "I did this". There was only ever Max/me. I leave Life is Strange in the same way Max leaves one reality for another, as she moves between the Maxes of time. She is the sum of her experiences, time traveling and all, as I am the sum of my life... Including the stories I visit, including my brief tenure as Max.

I'm really unsure how this A) shows what "the conflict here" is, or B) is really relevant to what we were talking about other than to illustrate that you don't look farther than yourself\max towards any of the other people in the game.
 
You said you would have preferred a record of your choices in the form of a world shaped by your decisions, yes? This is your pain point with the sacrifice chloe ending. Furthermore, it bothered you that I attributed meaning to all in the interactions in the game because you think they can't hold meaning without that record, but you admitted that from Max's perspective her experiences still mattered to herself.

The conflict comes from our approach to storytelling. You're adopting a third person bird's eye view of the story. That the record of events of Life is Strange exists inside Max doesn't hold enough weight for you. You need the world itself to acknowledge your decisions, as though you were an omniscient observer.

Me? It's enough that Max was changed. She is the record because I played the game assuming I was her or she was me.

Your engagement with Life is Strange was voyeuristic, whereas mine was vicarious. That's all there is to this drawn out debate: two approaches to experiencing fiction.
 
You said you would have preferred a record of your choices in the form of a world shaped by your decisions, yes? This is your pain point with the sacrifice chloe ending. Furthermore, it bothered you that I attributed meaning to all in the interactions in the game because you think they can't hold meaning without that record, but you admitted that from Max's perspective her experiences still mattered to herself.

The conflict comes from our approach to storytelling. You're adopting a third person bird's eye view of the story. That the record of events of Life is Strange exists inside Max doesn't hold enough weight for you. You need the world itself to acknowledge your decisions, as though you were an omniscient observer.

Me? It's enough that Max was changed. She is the record because I played the game assuming I was her or she was me.

Your engagement with Life is Strange was voyeuristic, whereas mine was vicarious. That's all there is to this drawn out debate: two approaches to experiencing fiction.
Ah, now I see how you perceive my point, but no, it's not voyeuristic or even being an omniscient observer, I was also in the persona of Max, however, I as a person, even in my real life do care about other people's feelings and perceptions of both me and the world around them, so by extension, Max would, too. So while I\Max had the memories of the time, I would recognize (being somebody who can look beyond my own perceptions and recognize the perceptions of others as valid) that the events didn't take place for anybody else. And that matters, too (I'd argue that matters more in the grand scheme of things). I'd recognize that the current timeline is the "real" one and the stuff I performed didn't happen to anybody else.

Otherwise why change anything? For example, Alyssa being hit in the face with the football. If you see it and you use your time powers to change it, you are doing so explicitly to erase the timeline where she is hit and for her to exist further having not been hit. To her, she was never hit. If you truly believed both exist equally in Max's mind and that's good enough, why change it? Why not just let her get hit in the face and say, well in my mind she didn't, and that's equally good?
 
Thinking about doing something, and doing it and remembering it are two different things.

I know the horrors of the holocaust from textbooks and film, but that doesn't make me a holocaust survivor.
 
Probably already discussed, but on the "Sacrifice Bay" ending.. the only persons with a good survival chance besides Chloe and Max.... would be Jefferson, The Presscot's and the Vortex members, including bitchy-Victoria (one in Prison, the others in their rich mansions likely not in downtown).

So, Max killed mostly only the decent guys.
Which is kind of entertaining.
- ok Kate too.
 
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(Not to distract from any of these interesting discussions here but I found this funny and thought I post it here.)

Holy shit XD
Cool video for easter eggs in the game. It confirmed what I already thought about the torture basement. Totally inspired by The Girl with the Dragon Tattoo. There's also a reference to Donnie Darko and Ground Hog Day, the game wears it's influences on it's sleeves lol.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YgYWaOnk9EU

Awesome!
 
Both endings were not satisfying to me. Very similar to The Walking Dead in that regard. You get to choose between 2 not so great options. Choices in life are often difficult, but sometimes they can be very easy to make.
 
I liked the easter egg where all car licence plates are references to other movies/shows :D
 
The funniest shit in the whole game happen ed on episode 5.

Watching David get owned so many times trying to find the right way while in the dark room was hilarious..m for being an ex marine he fucking suck. It's hilarious when u tell him to kick the table and thst animation killed me lmao. He kicked it for 2 feet only and Jefferson kicks it back and then hits David and gets shot up lmao.

Also pompidou text is fucking ridiculous lol like a dog would legit type thst if it qas capable of texting. On thst now I'm close to buying this:
http://www.redbubble.com/people/blu...ange-pompidou-text?grid_pos=75&p=throw-pillow
 
Someone on reddit did some research:


I mean it could obviously be anyone next to the car, but uuuuh... yah. Also check out the white lining on the bottom of the shoes of covered-up person.

So...I mean it's pretty obvious Warren dies in the Sac AB ending, but if that's put in picture it makes it much more likely/verifiable.
 
Someone on reddit did some research:



I mean it could obviously be anyone next to the car, but uuuuh... yah. Also check out the white lining on the bottom of the shoes of covered-up person.

So...I mean it's pretty obvious Warren dies in the Sac AB ending, but if that's put in picture it makes it much more likely/verifiable.

This rules.
 
Someone on reddit did some research:



I mean it could obviously be anyone next to the car, but uuuuh... yah. Also check out the white lining on the bottom of the shoes of covered-up person.

So...I mean it's pretty obvious Warren dies in the Sac AB ending, but if that's put in picture it makes it much more likely/verifiable.

This is terrible.
 
Just beat it, got the "sacrifice Chloe" ending. Wow... i can understand why some people may have got disappointed with it, since your choices doesn't have any significant impact on the ending, but shit it hit me like a brick. Don't know how to explain it, maybe it's the period of life I'm going through, or how amazingly well directed is the ending, but damn, it's been awhile since a game got me so astounded. Thanks for the ride Dontnod, it was fantastic.
 
I reckon you didn't show Warren any affection.

First playthrough I turned him down for the movies, couldn't figure out how to help him with his science experiment thing, and hugged him at the end. Second playthrough I said I'd go with him and helped him out, but still hugged him at the end.

I mean...jesus just look how friendzoned this guy is. Friendzoned Warren is way better than actual love interest Warren cause it's completely hilarious.

 
Someone on reddit did some research:



I mean it could obviously be anyone next to the car, but uuuuh... yah. Also check out the white lining on the bottom of the shoes of covered-up person.

So...I mean it's pretty obvious Warren dies in the Sac AB ending, but if that's put in picture it makes it much more likely/verifiable.

damn....
 
Someone on reddit did some research:



I mean it could obviously be anyone next to the car, but uuuuh... yah. Also check out the white lining on the bottom of the shoes of covered-up person.

So...I mean it's pretty obvious Warren dies in the Sac AB ending, but if that's put in picture it makes it much more likely/verifiable.

Dang. This actually upset me.
 
Like I'm full on Pricefield but Warren was a good friend to my Max. He had his creepy moments sure but his social awkwardness and geeky-ness reminded me a bit of myself.
 
I really wanted a Steins;gate ending for this

S;G spoilers with LiS comparisons
In S;G Okabe gets a choice between saving Mayuri, and saving Makise. Makise convinces him to save Mayuri. This is basically where LiS ends, especially comparable to chloe convincing Max to save arcadia bay, however in S;G after sacrificing Makise and resolving himself that thats the end, Okabe is convinced by a combination of his future self and Suzuha that he needs to keep fighting, and another option is possible.

The end of LiS feels lukewarm, after that whole adventure I really wanted triumph at the end, but it really does seem like the standard for choice games to give you a couple sad options and make you pick one. Still the journey is fantastic and I can still save Chloe at the end, even if the whole bay has to die in her place.

I too preferred Steins;Gate's endings. Life is Strange did the choices during the journey better but S;G's multiple destinations felt better. They'll both be in my top 5 games of the year anyway. I don't really know in what order.
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TT2Ig9AtiaM

there's just something about watching grown men cry I can't handle

simpsonsyoucanpointatthemomenthisheartbreaks.jpg

Yep. That was basically me when I watched that ending. Hell, watching this almost got me again.

I think everything is okay now. I think I'm finally getting over it.....

Who am I kidding. I'm still an emotional mess. Anything I see related to this game at all just destroys me. I can't....
 
Yep. That was basically me when I watched that ending. Hell, watching this almost got me again.

I think everything is okay now. I think I'm finally getting over it.....

Who am I kidding. I'm still an emotional mess. Anything I see related to this game at all just destroys me. I can't....

yep.

that was basically me too.

only without the Russian accent.

the music set in and... yep. someone's cutting onions again. fuck.
 
Yep, I saw that video earlier and cried right along with him again. It's a pretty awesome watching him react to everything.

I also had a good laugh at
the steam screenshot sound during the kiss scene cause he was really bawling but it was like he couldn't pass up that opportunity lol
 
Someone on reddit did some research:



I mean it could obviously be anyone next to the car, but uuuuh... yah. Also check out the white lining on the bottom of the shoes of covered-up person.

So...I mean it's pretty obvious Warren dies in the Sac AB ending, but if that's put in picture it makes it much more likely/verifiable.

The worst ending. The worst.

creepiest thing tho
 
Yep, I saw that video earlier and cried right along with him again. It's a pretty awesome watching him react to everything.

I also had a good laugh at
the steam screenshot sound during the kiss scene cause he was really bawling but it was like he couldn't pass up that opportunity lol

LOL I chuckled at that too. You can hear it so well, he's bawling his eyes out but NOPE gotta take that screenshot for sure LOL

but then.. the music hits... and noooooooo
 
I'm going to learn Source Filmmaker and make an extended ending for the Bae ending. It's gonna hella emotional yo.

I'm actually to lazy to do that but it would be cool to see.
 
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