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Life is Strange | Spoiler Thread
- Thread starter Dr. Buni
- Start date
He's not saying the endings suck game-wise. They suck for Max.
Come on, that's not what I meant by "suck." Expanding: "Sucks for the characters."
That would still solve nothing as Max must realize in the Sacrifice Chloe ending that Chloe being alive is what's causing the storm. Joyce isn't a substitute for Chloe, and killing her wouldn't exactly make Max (or Chloe) happy either.
Of course not - But I'd argue Joyce would much rather sacrifice herself if it means that her daughter gets to live, no?
Yeah I agree with that. But it means nothing as killing Joyce would fix nothing. What she wants does not really matter. Poor Joyce.
GGNKovalski
Member
I must say though, I love the discussions this game has spawned. Very entertaining, informative and fun.
Well, in a way killing Joyce DOES fix things. It fixes the "curse" the same way killing Chloe does.
But yeah, it sucks either way for Max. I'm not arguing "against" any ending - Just arguing my point that sacrificing AB is a valid option too, depending on how you've approached/played the game and interpreted the situation. Do more people die? for sure. Doesn't mean it's not a realistic choice based on the circumstances, though, and I have no ill-wishes towards Max and Chloe in this scenario.
It's my way of coping.
Rats Off To Ya
Banned
Truth. I can't remember the last time a game's ending has had me thinking like this for days afterward.
GGNKovalski
Member
I think it would be less fun if everyone agreed on stuff and just went about their day and the game/game's community died the second after the final episode hit. I love games that make people talk/discuss/theorize about what "x" meant or how they interpreted the ending(s).
they said "everybody". That's... a very relative term. Everybody present at the beach? Everybody present within x miles? Everybody what? at least kate and David must have survived as they're not even there.
And I'm not saying the other ending is wrong - It's definitely the one the devs intended, as they spent more time and money on it. I'm just saying that neither is "sacrificing AB" "wrong", it's just by people that have taken a different approach to the game/ending/interpretation/powers/whatever. Very much depends on how you play and interpret the game. Do you play AS Max? Are you Max? Or do you control Max? What does the power mean? Did you like Chloe or love Chloe or not care? In the end, it's a personal decision, and any ending can be rationalized reasonably. There is no "wrong" ending.
I have said that exact thing beforein this thread
Bae > Bay.
yeup.
Damn that crazy justification. All to try to not think that you sacrificed an entire town with say 20.000 to 50.000 people on it over sacrificed your friend/lover.
Also what makes you think that Max and Chloe won't bring more death and destruction since Chloe is supposed to be dead?? What makes you think that the gigantic hurricane is the only bad think that will happen if Chloe doesn't die when she should???
AlphaDragoon
Member
Uh, where'd you get this from? I thought they made it pretty clear (and say in that reviewer guideline thing that a gaffer PM'd out) that the universe wants Chloe and Chloe alone. Nobody could stand in for her, she had to take dat Final Destination and bite it.
I'm not sure that I understand.
I'm not sure I'm understanding you 100% here...
You can't kill Joyce alone and appease the storm. The storm is caused by Chloe being alive when she's supposed to be dead and Max trying to fight that.
We're not even sure if destroying the town (which seems to end in Joyce's death too) is the end of the disasters involving Chloe.
Death of the Author though. Once the work is out there, it doesn't matter what the devs say, what matters is what is present in the game itself. You're free to interpret it however you want, but the creator's word regarding things outside the scope of the work itself is irrelevant once the work has been finished and released to the public. If they had made it clear in the game that literally everyone in Arcadia Bay died, that would be different, but they didn't.
InfiniDragon
Member
Yep, death's gonna be following her like she's Dracula in Castlevania. Chloe's gotta die for it to stop. XD
I've never been a fan of that concept, but that's just me. I've always felt like the writer or creators of a work should have final say on what's what and that fan interpretations are just that, interpretations because they don't have the fact. So when a writer or author gives the fact, it should be accepted. Again, my personal thoughts as I do write myself.
Also, this. Well said.
This. This is why the only justification for the world not becoming chaos around Chloe's continued existence if she is saved is that the sacrifice of Arcadia Bay was a suitable "exchange" for Chloe's life. And, really, I don't see why the "universe" would care about that when it just wanted Chloe dead this whole time.
I understand that, but it's super annoying to have the author give a clear answer for something and then people try to use headcanon to go around it. The author isn't dead nor did they say it's up the personal interpretation. They literally give an answer for what they meant and I don't see why we just can't take that answer as truth.
GGNKovalski
Member
Yeah In fact they did very little (if nothing at all) to suggest that "Everyone" is going to die. Just that "hey this big tornado thing is going to hit the town". When you see the town after many buildings are still standing and not all that bad looking. People surely survived. Also, how far inland did the storm go? We don't know. If they intended for EVERYONE to die, they should have made that more painfully clear in game. Like have no buildings whatsoever standing. Or have what used to be the town, now just an empty plot of land.
jeez guys, I obviously meant that you kill Joyce AND the town instead of Chloe. I was just talking about Joyce vs Chloe living as a clear pro-Chloe in that case.
Also that town didn't look 20 thousand people big, and not all of them will have died. I mean, you're literally saving some people as they're leaving town.
And that the storm/curse is appeased with happening I got from the devs commenting:
"this is only the beginning for Max and Chloe
" sounds a lot more positive than THEY'LL FOREVER BE ON THE RUNthey literally DID say it's up for personal imagination though.
agreed, in fact the bay post-storm looks very similar to when Chloe's visiting the diner - it can't have hit THAT much.
WrenchNinja
Member
but it's not though
i mean you can play max as an asshole if you want but sacrificing a town is a huge step from dumping paint on someone and taking a picture or letting some kid beat up another kid, or causing a dog to die, or letting a drug dealer get shot or stabbed. all you are doing is rationalising the murder of thousands of people...and for what? a punk kid who herself realises the gravity of the situation and understands that her life isn't worth letting all those people die and acts selflessly for once in the entire story without having max telling her the difference between right and wrong
GGNKovalski
Member
jeez guys, I obviously meant that you kill Joyce AND the town instead of Chloe. I was just talking about Joyce vs Chloe living as a clear pro-Chloe in that case.
Also that town didn't look 20 thousand people big, and not all of them will have died. I mean, you're literally saving some people as they're leaving town.
And that the storm/curse is appeased with happening I got from the devs commenting:
"this is only the beginning for Max and Chloe
they literally DID say it's up for personal imagination though.
Could you imagine if there were more seasons of this and each season it's Max and Chloe going from town to town (or city to city) bringing death and destruction with them because Max (or you) refuse to let Chloe die. Not saying this is what I want or if it's right but could you imagine....
I'm still not convinced that Chloe is so special that the universe is out to get her specifically. The issue is that Chloe not dying was the first step in terms of Max fucking up spacetime, and it started the chain reaction that led to the storm. I don't think it had to be Chloe who started it all, it's just that saving her was the first instigating act and so undoing that act is the only way to undo the entire chain reaction.
I get you, but I feel authorial interference can all too easily shut down interpretation and analysis, which is an important part of the consumption and study of art. We shouldn't be taking the developers' word as gospel when it doesn't necessarily reflect what we see in the game. I'm not saying we can't agree with the developers' claims, I'm saying we're not obligated to.
I get you, but I feel authorial interference can all too easily shut down interpretation and analysis, which is an important part of the consumption and study of art. We shouldn't be taking the developers' word as gospel when it doesn't necessarily reflect what we see in the game. I'm not saying we can't agree with the developers' claims, I'm saying we're not obligated to.
See, this is where I said it's up for personal interpretation. To me/Max, Chloe is NOT what I bolded in your statement.
That would make the story a WHOLE lot less innocent though...
Double Donut
Member
The whole "buildings are still standing" excuse is pretty bad IMO.
I'd say it's pretty obvious that buildings are still standing because they didn't have the time and budget to create brand new assets of destroyed buildings for a three minute ending that was already rushed as hell.
Realistically, the buildings would be gone. Max and Chloe literally watch the tornado roll right into Arcadia Bay, hell I'm pretty sure it directly steamrolled the diner.
I'm not killing my bae for a town of people
IMHO there's two ways to appease the universe
1) Never use the power (stupid, why was she given powers in the first place then, just to make Chloe's loss more painful for Max? bad.)
2) Live with the consequences of using the powers (aka let the storm do its damage. Also bad.)
That's terrible logic though, "the buildings SHOULD be gone, just pretend they're not there." What else are we supposed to picture differently from the game then? We literally only have the game to go by.
1) Never use the power (stupid, why was she given powers in the first place then, just to make Chloe's loss more painful for Max? bad.)
2) Live with the consequences of using the powers (aka let the storm do its damage. Also bad.)
That's terrible logic though, "the buildings SHOULD be gone, just pretend they're not there." What else are we supposed to picture differently from the game then? We literally only have the game to go by.
Zambayoshi
Member
I considered it to be romantic in the sense of love struggling against the odds, an every day living on the edge for the sake of love kind of thing.
Max seemed to be having some serious guilt issues in the truck just before they drive away. Chloe then touches her and gives a tremulous smile, trying to reassure Max that, although the aftermath of her choice is extremely traumatic, they are together and will support each other.
(I also think that further down the line Chloe may indeed blame Max for the death of her mother, a kind of survivor's guilt complex)
All this is part of why I consider the sacrifice Arcadia Bay ending to be more interesting than the sacrifice Chloe ending. The devs left a lot more 'unsaid' in the former ending, for good reasons, not just budgetary ones.
just like real life :0
Conflict NZ
Member
They didn't show that at all. The Save Chloe ending showed a sunny horizon and peaceful atmosphere. It implied that an imbalance created the storm and that balance was restored once the storm had passed.
Yeah but it ain't like she's going to be all that upset about it once she's dead. I'm not sure what kind of life she'll live after losing her first husband and only child.
WrenchNinja
Member
What is up to personal interpretation? She's not what exactly? Not a punk kid? That she is totally worth killing everyone for? Only a crazy person would think this. Chloe literally says her life isn't worth murdering everyone over for. Even she comprehends this.
AlphaDragoon
Member
But it also meant that somewhere down the line something else was gonna happen to try and off her again.
If you want I can send you the thing the other gaffer sent to me that explicitly says "universe wants Chloe dead and is trying to fix itself".
BAE > BAY
If anything, this thread just shows how amazing the game was, given how involved emotionally it gets me/us.
jeez guys, I obviously meant that you kill Joyce AND the town instead of Chloe. I was just talking about Joyce vs Chloe living as a clear pro-Chloe in that case.
Also that town didn't look 20 thousand people big, and not all of them will have died. I mean, you're literally saving some people as they're leaving town.
And that the storm/curse is appeased with happening I got from the devs commenting:
"this is only the beginning for Max and Chloe
they literally DID say it's up for personal imagination though.
agreed, in fact the bay post-storm looks very similar to when Chloe's visiting the diner - it can't have hit THAT much.
I don't see positive or negative light on that comment, just that Max and Chloe are just beginning. I can see that they will be happy (although how is a thing since I doubt anyone on this entire world would kill an entire city and be cool about it), or it could means that their problems are just beginning as well. To me there is no notion on that message that the hurricane would be an isolate event, reality create a massive hurricane in order to have Chloe dead, so something like flooding an entire city, a massive earthquake or other causes could happen in order to put things right, regardless how many people will be sacrificed for it.
matrixman92
Member
i just want a goofy epilogue dlc where Max and Chloe are on a roadtrip and get into little adventures. Not having to do with time travel at all. I would pay a high price for it
Even ignoring the whole kill a whole bunch of people for one person thing, I feel like the save Chloe ending also really hurts on the character development side. Chloe's willingness to sacrifice herself and how much she valued the time with Max was wonderful to me,especially since she hadn't really be shown caring for anyone outside of Rachel and Max till then. Like I said before the sacrifice Chloe ending felt like a proper way to end a tragic romance/friendship that was doomed from beginning, but the two had an experience that helped them grown in different ways instead of the unhealthy focus on one person.
There is no way that I could see Max and Chloe's relationship in the sacrifice AB ending being healthy. Especially at that age.
There is no way that I could see Max and Chloe's relationship in the sacrifice AB ending being healthy. Especially at that age.
InfiniDragon
Member
To me it always felt like the point of the power was actually only to give her the "last chance" with Chloe. Whenever she tried to use it to save her, the powers that be went "fuck u max" and still nuked everything.
Not saying that it wouldn't potentially be more painful for Max, but we don't know that if Max had never gotten powers and saw her die thinking she was a random girl, only to find out it was her best friend she wouldn't have had crazy guilt for never mending the fences. Whereas this way, she gets the closure with her after splitting for all those years that she wouldn't have gotten the chance to experience if she had just bled out in the bathroom. Even if no one else remembers it, Max always will.
But since there's nothing confirming the purpose of the powers that bit will have to remain open to interpretation.
Granted. God, poor Joyce. I cared about her far more than Chloe, who came across as a brat for most of the game.
a) her being a "punk kid" has nothing to do with anything, unless you consider punks less of a person
b) that heavily depends on what you interpret by "everyone" and "worth". If you were asked to choose between your SO and someone else to die, who'd you pick? Okay, now what about 2 people? What about 3? etc. And again, how's Max even supposed to know it's gonna work/she'll survive going back again. there's a lot of factors.
Disagreed:
up to imagination.
Actually it's confirmed in the guide the one GAF reviewer received that Chloe's death is "ultimately" the reason for the storm. Saving Chloe goes against the deterministic nature of the universe, so the universe tries to rectify itself.
At some point the universe will decide to destroy the entire planet
If they make it to space, the universe will find a way to get them.GGNKovalski
Member
^ AGREE 110%. I love that people have different feelings about this. IMO there is no definitive "wrong" or "right" choice. It's up to the person playing the game and how they chose to play it (make decisions based of what they would do IRL, or what Max as a character would do, etc..)
Zambayoshi
Member
Like a Thelma & Louise, Bonnie & Clyde type of thing? I'd pay many dollars for that
GGNKovalski
Member
Life is Strange Season 2: The Excellent Adventures of Max and Chloe
AlphaDragoon
Member
Yep. It ain't just going away. They're gonna have to fight to keep her alive for the rest of their days, basically.