At some point the universe will decide to destroy the entire planetIf they make it to space, the universe will find a way to get them.
Maybe the moon god will be more merciful than the earth goddess.
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Life is Strange | Spoiler Thread
- Thread starter Dr. Buni
- Start date
Maybe the moon god will be more merciful than the earth goddess.
I agree that Max using her powers to save Chloe causes the storm, I think nobody doubts that.
I'm arguing, letting the storm happen ALSO appeases the "curse", so to speak. It's a "heavier" price to pay in terms of people that die for sure, but it's up to everyone's on gameplay and interpretation of the story of what choice Max makes. There's no right or wrong, despite the devs obviously favouring one end over the other.
It's like the universe offers Max a deal. But she has to know the consequences of accepting it.
I'm arguing, letting the storm happen ALSO appeases the "curse", so to speak. It's a "heavier" price to pay in terms of people that die for sure, but it's up to everyone's on gameplay and interpretation of the story of what choice Max makes. There's no right or wrong, despite the devs obviously favouring one end over the other.
It's like the universe offers Max a deal. But she has to know the consequences of accepting it.
InfiniDragon
Member
And thinking on it this way, what are all the people saying "Max using time travel to go back and not prevent Chloe's death could have killed her" thinking about this? Max presumably still has her powers, so if she keeps using them to save Chloe from FD, she's gonna die from it anyway. And if she doesn't have her powers anymore, then it was for naught but a few more days or weeks since the universe will come for Chloe again and Max won't be able to stop it that time.
It doesn't go away until Chloe dies, according to the dev documents.
That's why I'm saying she won't have to go back and keep saving her, simple as that.
Yeah, I guess the discussion here makes it more interesting than it actually appears in the game itself. But I also think the interpretations one can have from the sacrifice Chloe ending are good, and the meaning it gave to Max getting her powers in the first place so she had the gift of spending time with the best friend she hadn't met for years, before she got shot by a nut in a bathroom.
GGNKovalski
Member
InfiniDragon
Member
LOL. I so wished there had been an option for Max herself to off that asshole.
LOL
EAT SHIT AND DIE!!! If only Max had some cool glasses, it would be even more amazing.
Wish you could have kneed Jefferson in the past, even if it resulted in a fail state
Honestly, after she got her foot lose, I kind of expected that to happen. just a smooth kick in the balls
I kind of wonder what the universe thinks about killing all those people since they shouldn't be fated to die yet.
Yeah, I find the "guide" thing troublesome for the reasons I stated earlier. It's fine for the developers to have a sort of "bible" to stick to to keep their story straight - in fact, it's a very good idea - but I don't think it's a good idea to hand it out as the "true canon" after the game is released. That said, I think I agree with what you're saying. The universe doesn't have some sort of personal grudge against Chloe or anything like that, but Chloe is the initial reason the universe gets thrown out of wack in the first place, so allowing her to die is the only way to fix it. So in that way, yes, she is at the center of it all.
Road trip with either Chloe or Kate depending on the ending you choose. Make it happen.
InfiniDragon
Member
It probably thinks "that damn blue haired girl messing up everything, we'll have to try even harder to ensure she dies this time!" XD
But yeah, the whole balance of things in the LiS universe gets royally screwed by the one death that was prevented, so I honestly don't know how the universal "scale" works. Unless whatever force that's causing it is truly just cruel and only cares that Max defied fate rather than about a universal balance.
Actual unused content sure, but dev docs don't really count because no dev is gonna just be like "oh and hey guys here's our design doc", even when they use stuff from it in the final game. Lots of devs mention stuff that's in lore after the fact that was present in a previously "their eyes only" document and I don't see that as a bad thing, they're just fleshing out stuff for people. In this case, they gave that doc to reviewers so that they could fill in blanks about lore and character's thoughts/motivations, so I feel that should absolutely be considered at the least. Additionally, do you know the context of that line? Did she say that at the end of Chapter 5, or was that part of the dream/nightmare sequence, or what? The point in which Chloe says "I gotta go" is at the end of the game so she matured emotionally, and since we don't know when that unused content would have taken place it could be before her big epiphany.
Anything not in the game that's hidden somewhere and unused shouldn't be used as an argument - it wasn't used for a reason.
I mean, there's also lines from Chloe where she goes "Save me or that filthy town..." "but please choose me..." and we're all arguing that Chloe coming around to being less selfish was a crucial point for people choosing one ending over the other. Only what was used matters.
I can perfectly accept "letting the storm run its course" is a perfectly acceptable resolution to the curse, too. I mean, if it wasn't, then why would it even exist. Either you don't use the power or a storm comes. If the universe was just after Chloe, then the storm wouldn't be necessary and it would just keep trying to kill her. Letting the storm happen is just the alternate resolution, hence the two endings. i don't think the universe cares that much about Chloe - it cares about balance. Save one life, sacrifice others. Balance restored.
I mean, there's also lines from Chloe where she goes "Save me or that filthy town..." "but please choose me..." and we're all arguing that Chloe coming around to being less selfish was a crucial point for people choosing one ending over the other. Only what was used matters.
I can perfectly accept "letting the storm run its course" is a perfectly acceptable resolution to the curse, too. I mean, if it wasn't, then why would it even exist. Either you don't use the power or a storm comes. If the universe was just after Chloe, then the storm wouldn't be necessary and it would just keep trying to kill her. Letting the storm happen is just the alternate resolution, hence the two endings. i don't think the universe cares that much about Chloe - it cares about balance. Save one life, sacrifice others. Balance restored.
That is AWESOME!!!!
GGNKovalski
Member
I agree. If it's not explicitly stated or shown in game, I don't hold much, if any, value in it.
ArtHands
Thinks buying more servers can fix a bad patch
The Max in the interim period was spawned off the conscious Max who time travelled (aka Max who knows everything). No reason why the Max during the interim period wouldn't know anything.
Not having tea with Kate in the sacrifice Chloe ending is a failure of this episode. But comforting her in the time jump gave me feels so I let it go.
If the Max in the interims knew everything, why would Max have to remind Chloe to take her to the lighthouse in the party-timetravel part? That makes it pretty clear interim-Max knows nothing. She even specifically says that...
Zambayoshi
Member
The interpretation that is coming up is that the storm comes about because Max screwed reality by time traveling. She was the reason the storm was created, not Chloe. But Max altered time to save Chloe, because Chloe was meant to die. The universe wants to continue killing Chloe, but the storm is only a byproduct of that because of Max.
Chlose continues to survive and the initial storm is gone, but the universe continues to want to kill Chloe to restore the balance. If Max alters time again to save Chloe, another storm or disaster will come about as a result. The storm wasn't a super attack meant to wipe out Chloe or the town, but just a result of Max's interference.
AlphaDragoon
Member
I don't buy the theory that death will follow Chloe. This isn't final destination where death tries to reclaim what is his. This is chaos theory, or more popularly known as the butterfly effect. Chloe's survival just happened to be the initial condition for that tornado. It doesn't mean that there will be 10 more tornadoes out to get her. If there is then that would be some amaaaazingly bad luck.
Does max get creeped out by Warren's locker in the nightmare if she kisses him at the diner? My Max rejected him all the way and was sort of gleefully taking pictures as evidence of his stalking her lol. Does it differ based on our choices?
Does max get creeped out by Warren's locker in the nightmare if she kisses him at the diner? My Max rejected him all the way and was sort of gleefully taking pictures as evidence of his stalking her lol. Does it differ based on our choices?
WrenchNinja
Member
1) I don't think punks are less of a person. What I do think, or well know, is that she has screwed up her life so far. She has flunked out of school, has no job, does nothing but drugs, is thousands of dollars in debt because of those drugs, mooches off of her parents, regularly breaks the law, and contributes nothing to society. What I do think is less of entitled brats like her. Doesn't mean I want her to die, just that I understand that her life isn't some grand thing that needs saving over thousands of other people. Just like she understands that.
2) I'm not being asked to choose between my significant other and another person, or two people, or three. I'm being asked to choose between my best friend / significant other, who is even suggesting the decision I should make, and thousands of other people, many of whom are good, some of whom are bad, all of whom don't have the luxury of having a say in this matter. At this point in the story, Max knows that the storm is because of her, and it is as clear as day that Chloe needs to die. There's no weaseling out of this saying "But what if it doesn't work" here.
High five. At least it seems DONTNOD listened to fans and added the hospital scene later in the development of that ep. That was pretty damn cool of them.
This does also extend to headcanons which go beyond what was shown in-game, such as things Max was thinking when those weren't demonstrated.
InfiniDragon
Member
Kate really is the best. Another reason for Chloe to bite the dust, have to make sure she doesn't die in that storm, take no chances.
This is also true and I keep forgetting it myself. When we say something's gonna come for Chloe again, it really isn't another storm or something like that...unless Max interferes again. It can be something as random (or not so random in Chloe's case lol) as a shooting, or a car accident. Something's going to try and kill her again, and only if Max tries to stop it again would it ramp up to DBZ levels all over again.
Fair enough. But dev documents and comments still don't equal unused game content.
Galactic Fork
A little fluff between the ears never did any harm...
Blah, I hated the ending(s). Basically made almost every choice pointless. Either they didn't happen, or everybody I knew there died except Chloe. Sooo, I saved Chloe! I figure if her dying was a catalyst to give me time powers, then the universe must ultimately want her alive, even at the expense of the rest of the town. Otherwise, why even get the powers? Blah, sucks.
Those were alternate lines for the very final confrontation when they're at the cliff:
Cue_E5_7A_Cliff_CHChloe_Phase01_Chloe_001="You have to choose Max..."
Cue_E5_7A_Cliff_CHChloe_Phase01_Chloe_002="Save me, or that filthy town."
Cue_E5_7A_Cliff_CHChloe_Phase01_Chloe_003="But please, choose me... :'("
that's debatable and very much up for interpretation. There's 0 evidence that's the case, versus the storm was the resolution of the alternate ending. (for which there's also no direct evidence for, but at least the game ends in a happy weather note and the devs said it's the beginning for max and chloe... I don't think they'd put it that way if they were forever haunted. Just my interpretation>)
AlphaDragoon
Member
To give Max and Chloe a week to reconnect that they never would have had otherwise, is how I look at it. Not to mention the connections Max is able to make (and presumably remake) with other people and her own massive personal growth.
It is not that they state which ending is true. They just give the reason for the storm. The choice is still very much the player's.
I'm so glad that best character Kate doesn't just disappear into the abyss like a TellTale game. It was probably a lot of work to add parts with her, but it was worth it. Also congrats to the devs for making a not horrible Christian character.
Conflict NZ
Member
Except that was probably written by a PR guy for the game. The actual lead writer has posted in the multiple screenshots in this thread that in the save Chloe ending "This is just the beginning for Chloe and Max". You wouldn't say that if another storm was to hit every week and try to kill her (timeline for the entire game was a week).
Chloe said it on the cliff. The time they got to spend together was real. All of it. Alternate realities and all.
I never claimed my ending was the only acceptable one - completely the opposite. I agree that the sacrifice Chloe one is the one the devs intended, given budget allocations. I'm just arguing that from a player's perspective, the other one doesn't have to end in forever being haunted but can very much be a resolution, too. - hence there being 2 different resolutions to the "curse"/time-travel-debacle.
Agreed. Don't think anyone doubts that Max saving Chloe causes the storm.
... which will give Max way more guilt over the rest of her life than not... not to mention she was also kidnapped, drugged and had to see Chloe die multiple times... and in some versions even kill her herself.
I understand that. But if the reason for the storm isn't adequately explained in the game, they can't just come in and tell us what it's supposed to mean after the fact when the game has already been released and everything. That said, I thought the game made the reason for the storm clear enough, even if the direct chain of causality was muddy at best, so that's not really an issue for me.
GGNKovalski
Member
I get what you saying but the way I played it was the player, or me, IS Max. So sure the game never explicitly came out and said what she was thinking at times but I was thinking stuff and so, therefore, so was Max. I guess it depends on how you play it. Example, the game never came out and had Max say something like "How do I know sacrificing Chloe will stop the storm" but I was thinking it. So to me Max was thinking it.
InfiniDragon
Member
It's not another storm, "something" would try to kill her off again and no one knows what or when outside of that comment. The storm was only a result of Max running interference. And "this is just the beginning" just indicates to me that there would be more to their story if they continued that way; since the whole concept of the "save Chloe" ending is defying fate that makes sense to me that they would ever keep trying to beat the odds.
Just the beginning of Chloe and Max trying to fight death is what they forgot to write. Lead writer just didn't want to tell you that Max causes the apocalypse and LiS turns into Mad Max Fury Road. It would be too metal for us.
AlphaDragoon
Member
Somehow I don't think it was a "PR guy". And it still would be the beginning. But it doesn't say anywhere that it would all be rainbows and sunshine either.
Also, it doesn't mean that a storm would happen every week. It could be other things. But going by what is written as the intent of the writers, that is what caused the storm and there's nothing written that says "oh it'll give up if you let the storm happen". Whereas it does say that the universe is trying to right itself, and it only makes sense that it would continue as long as Chloe lived.
again, debatable. There's really no evidence for or against it, so it's up to interpretation of each player. I see "this is just the beginning for them" as their partnership/relationship. And either Chloe dying or the storm resolving resolves the whole timecourse-problem. I don't think the universe cares that much about Chloe - it cares about balance, both storm and Chloe's death restore it.
that's YOUR interpretation though. I argue the storm resolving itself ALSO rights the universe and restores balance. We all agree that the storm is caused by Max saving Chloe, nobody is debating that. the devs even say what happens next is up to one's imagination, there's no right or wrong.
InfiniDragon
Member
You keep bringing this up like you know it to be fact. You say what I argue is debatable, but then go on to say the storm resolves the thing with Chloe. You don't know that anymore than I know it, I'm just going by what the people that presumably do know it stated.
Yeah, I'm inclined to agree. We just don't know enough to say with any certainty whether "balance is restored" or whether Chloe will continue to be in danger. So hey, everybody feel free to believe whatever you want in that regard! Everybody wins!
They didn't state that though - And I'm not arguing FOR anything, I'm arguing that it's up for interpretation and arguing AGAINST "only one way is the actual way". No, I don't know anymore than you do - But neither do you. The game ends however you, as the player, have made the experiences with it and interpret it to end/go on.
Sounds sarcastic, but I actually agree. There's 2 endings in the game, both of which have their pluses and minuses and we're all just limited by our own imagination and what the game has given us. And I think it's for the better it doesn't concretely answer all possible ambiguities.
If the universe really DID continue to haunt Chloe, then that ending wouldn't be a valid ending at all, unless you're into Final Destination movies. Since then basically... they'll always be on the run or Chloe AND the town dies. That's just a lose-lose lol.
Sure, I'm not saying this either. The reason this point of discussion is still going is because there isn't one clear answer, and that multiple interpretations are (intentionally) valid. For that reply I was just saying that, if we're only to take waht was presented in the game to expand on what happens in the end, that extends to all interpretations of the story.
Maybe it was an accident that things ended up being fairly ambiguous for the "Sacrifice AB" ending (as they say, originally the scope of that ending was meant to be bigger), but as a result we can have different thoughts as to what it entails, and the ambiguity means that there isn't one clear conclusion.