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Linux Distro Noob thread of Linux noobs

K

-KRS-

Member
So have they finally started adding everything that's been missing in the System Settings? It's pretty laughable right now. You can't even get to the auto-starting applications settings through it now. No silly, you have to start "gnome-session-properties" to change those settings. Why can't they just have an icon or something in the System Settings that start that application when you click it? And fonts? Do I still need to have Gnome Tweak Tool, and why isn't that built into the System Settings, or even included in the standard Gnome 3 installation? Even LXDE has fonts settings built in.

It does look like it's getting better though, and the improvements sound nice, but there's still a long way to go in my opinion. But I look forward to seeing 3.6 in the Arch extra repository and trying it out for myself. I'm sure now with Gnomebuntu there will be major improvements made for usability as well which hopefully includes a more fleshed out System Settings. I mean the newbies can't be expected to know that they have to start for example gnome-session-properties themselves, or even know what it is, and Ubuntu is aimed at beginners. So I have high hopes!
 
Z

zoku88

Member
Massa said:
Sure, it's nice to know that there are options. I just don't think going around trying every window manager someone could think of is for everyone (and might take more than a year if you take it literally.. heh). It depends on what a person wants out of the new system they're trying. Usually I recommend having a full meal instead of tasting a little of everything right off the gate.

For someone that does want to try them all though I'd recommend playing with a live CD first. Personally I don't like the idea of having multiple large suites installed on a single system.

As for Arch. I'm actually running it right now on a machine that I broke trying out Fedora 18, and while I enjoy it for what it is I don't think someone completely new to Linux would be able to appreciate it for what it does well.
Click to expand...

Yea, but I don't think it's really a good idea to just tell someone what Desktop Environment to use. Maybe just, installing all of them is a bad idea, but I would at least recommend looking at the wikipedia pages for them. Or better yet, watch some videos.

The only reason I said Arch, besides how empty the default system is, was for the rolling updates. Since, in my experience, Ubuntu didn't handle dist upgrades all that well when I used it. :-/

It might be better nowadays, though...


Andrex said:
I've never had to change fonts or auto-start applications. *shrug*
Click to expand...
There's a difference between *want to* and *have to*.
 
P

peakish

Member
synt4x said:
So have they finally started adding everything that's been missing in the System Settings? It's pretty laughable right now. You can't even get to the auto-starting applications settings through it now. No silly, you have to start "gnome-session-properties" to change those settings. Why can't they just have an icon or something in the System Settings that start that application when you click it? And fonts? Do I still need to have Gnome Tweak Tool, and why isn't that built into the System Settings, or even included in the standard Gnome 3 installation? Even LXDE has fonts settings built in.
Click to expand...
I'd wager they'll never put those things back into system settings. From the start they've been pushing for the unified and official look so much of the theming seems out - maybe "sessions" will see a return, but they probably see the promotion of suspending as off setting most use cases.

I think I remember them talking about avoiding bloat in the system settings, keeping it manageable for most users - leaving the Tweak Tool (or of course dconf) for advanced users who care enough to want something specific.
 
I

itxaka

Defeatist
Andrex said:
I've never had to change fonts or auto-start applications. *shrug*
Click to expand...

Really? I always have to disable a lot of things that I don't need to be running but may need on the future, like bluettoth (is that difficult to detect if I have bluetooth?) or cups. Or if you do a wrong configuration with nvidia.settings it loads the config at the session start so you can try different values without having it started and loaded by default. probably saved my ass a few times when playing with overclocking :D


Font...fonts I have only changed them in other distros (why isn't ttf-liberation installed by default) or in older ubuntus when they didn't have any antialising.
 
V

Vanillalite

Ask me about the GAF Notebook
Ubuntu beta today. As many of you know I always end up checking out the next release early, but I try to wait till beta cause alphas have had to many omg my system is totally broke bugs over the years.

I'll post thoughts later on 12.10 after I get it installed this evening.
 
I

itxaka

Defeatist
Brettison said:
Ubuntu beta today. As many of you know I always end up checking out the next release early, but I try to wait till beta cause alphas have had to many omg my system is totally broke bugs over the years.

I'll post thoughts later on 12.10 after I get it installed this evening.
Click to expand...

Gonna check it myself later. This is the first time I haven't been riding the alpha tide as 12.04 was pretty great and filled all my needs.

Please canonical, don't break it. Pretty please with a cherry on top.
 
Q

qizah

Unconfirmed Member
Anybody know of any good Ubuntu books?

I've been using Ubuntu for about 2 years now but I'd like to learn even more about the ins and outs of things in the OS.

Recommendations would be appreciated!
 
I

itxaka

Defeatist
Good news everyone!

It’s official: the Ubuntu Live CD* is dead.

Ubuntu 12.10 will increase the maximum size of its disc image from 700MB to 800MB, thereby making it too big to fit onto traditional CD-R media.

The news came from Canonical’s Kate Stewart on the Ubuntu Mailing list, who wrote:

There is no longer a traditional CD sized image, DVD or alternate image, but rather a single 800MB Ubuntu image that can be used from USB or DVD.

Ubuntu Server remains unaffected by the switch.

Why The Increase?

The reasoning behind the increase is likely to be two-fold.

Firstly, an extra 100MB of space on the disc gives developers more breathing room. As apps, packages and their dependencies become larger so to does the ‘foot print’ needed for them on the CD.

In the past this has resulted in tough choices have to made as to what can ship on the CD and what can’t.

But the buffer remains small enough to enforce discipline and thrift, thus making sure that developers keep the default install as trim as possible. This ‘thrift’ is already evident: the Ubuntu 12.10 Beta image clocks in at 745MB.

Secondly, ‘consolidation’ of images and developer effort will play a part.

Prior to Ubuntu 12.10 alternate installer and DVD-sized .iso’s were available to download alongside the main ‘LiveCD’ image.

The more images produced, the more time that has to be spent by developers in compiling, checking, bug testing and reviewing each specific build.

But for Ubuntu 12.10 both of these have been retired.

How It Compares to Older Releases

The increase means that the standard live CD for Ubuntu 12.10 will displace Ubuntu’s 8.04 to 9.04 as the largest sized releases.

Disc sizes for Ubuntu Releases (standard live desktop 32bit iso)

Ubuntu 12.10 Beta 1 745MB
Ubuntu 12.04.1 695MB
Ubuntu 11.10 695MB
Ubuntu 11.04 685MB
Ubuntu 10.10 693MB
Ubuntu 10.04.4 694MB
Ubuntu 9.10 690MB
Ubuntu 9.04 699MB
Ubuntu 8.10 699MB
Ubuntu 8.04 699MB
Ubuntu 7.10 696MB
Ubuntu 7.04 698MB
Ubuntu 6.10 698MB
Ubuntu 6.06 696MB
Ubuntu 5.04 627MB
Ubuntu 5.04 625MB
Ubuntu 4.10 643M
Click to expand...


About time, I haven't see a CD in 3 or 4 years. It sucks if you need to install with a CD but I don't think there is any PC/servers in the last 8 years without at least usb 1.
 
T

Tworak

Member
the whole must stay within CD size limitations for desktops just seem really... daft. go big on DVD and add an internet installation CD for those 3 people that still use CDs.

this is slightly different for servers. I still prefer installing from a CD over a USB mostly because installations still get confused over where to put /boot, and it --for some reason-- ends up on the USB stick 25% of the time. nobody sane needs a UI or Libreoffice on a server anyway, so it's a non-issue for a while still.

oh wait, CD fo lyfe!
 
V

Vanillalite

Ask me about the GAF Notebook
I'll be interested to see how 13.04 turns out now that they've moved away from the must fit on cd requirement. I know most *nix users don't want the download to be bloated, but I could see a larger iso. 12.10 will be larger, but the situation is switching late in the cycle that I doubt it'll effect things compared to 13.04 where they'll start knowing they don't need to hit that 700 meg limit.

PS: I've never had any USB install problems, but maybe I just haven't done enough. I always use the linux live usb creator these days (over unetbootin for no real reason), and I've yet to encouter a single issue.
 
P

Pctx

Banned
Brettison said:
I'll be interested to see how 13.04 turns out now that they've moved away from the must fit on cd requirement. I know most *nix users don't want the download to be bloated, but I could see a larger iso. 12.10 will be larger, but the situation is switching late in the cycle that I doubt it'll effect things compared to 13.04 where they'll start knowing they don't need to hit that 700 meg limit.

PS: I've never had any USB install problems, but maybe I just haven't done enough. I always use the linux live usb creator these days (over unetbootin for no real reason), and I've yet to encouter a single issue.
Click to expand...

To please them, they might as well just have an Ubuntu Minimal spin that is below 400MB.
 
T

ThatObviousUser

ὁ αἴσχιστος παῖς εἶ
So is there a reason Gnomebuntu isn't in the press releases alongside Kubuntu and Xubuntu...? I thought it was a real thing now.
 
T

ThatObviousUser

ὁ αἴσχιστος παῖς εἶ
c2BKA.png


God look how beautiful this is. SO HYPED

They've literally rectified every minor aesthetic complaint I had with the overview screen. It's all so consistent and congruent and fluid and AWESOME.

Apparently GNOMEbuntu (name not final) is releasing on October 18th. GET HYPE
 
Z

zoku88

Member
So, I know there are some awesome users here (or is it just angelfly?)

Have you guys ever tried i3?

http://i3wm.org/

I kinda like some of the window management stuff better than awesome. (like, for example, I couldn't get conky to act like a single window in awesome for some reason. But it behaves that way in i3.)

Seems to be less support for theming, though (still looking at it.)


Btw, does anyone use unagi for compositing? I'm trying to find documentation of options (like, how to use its plugins), but I can't find any...
 
P

pmj

Member
I'm one of the 3 people that always installs from CD, because for some reason my otherwise good and reliable USB stick isn't usable for installing Ubuntu. The installer always hangs at some point. Time to invest in a new one, I suppose, to see if that helps. A smaller iso that grabs the rest from the net during installation would be great.

Gnome 3.6 looks a lot like Gnome 3.4. I'd be most excited for a built in feature to clean up among the default indicators.
 
T

ThatObviousUser

ὁ αἴσχιστος παῖς εἶ
pmj said:
I'm one of the 3 people that always installs from CD, because for some reason my otherwise good and reliable USB stick isn't usable for installing Ubuntu. The installer always hangs at some point. Time to invest in a new one, I suppose, to see if that helps. A smaller iso that grabs the rest from the net during installation would be great.

Gnome 3.6 looks a lot like Gnome 3.4. I'd be most excited for a built in feature to clean up among the default indicators.
Click to expand...

I use an extension to get rid of the accessibility icon, and I'm sure extensions will come out to hide the others.
 
P

pmj

Member
Andrex said:
I use an extension to get rid of the accessibility icon, and I'm sure extensions will come out to hide the others.
Click to expand...

I use that extension too, but possibly due to the order in which these extensions load, it fails to clean up some of the unwanted crap. Every time I log in I have to open up the extension manager, disable and enable that extension to make it all go away. It's driving me nuts.
 
T

ThatObviousUser

ὁ αἴσχιστος παῖς εἶ
pmj said:
I use that extension too, but possibly due to the order in which these extensions load, it fails to clean up some of the unwanted crap. Every time I log in I have to open up the extension manager, disable and enable that extension to make it all go away. It's driving me nuts.
Click to expand...

Hm, I never have to do that. Which distro are you on?
 
P

pmj

Member
Andrex said:
Hm, I never have to do that. Which distro are you on?
Click to expand...

I misread your post. I don't use the remove accessibility icon extension anymore, because there's also "Evil Status Icon Forever" which also gets rid of network. There doesn't seem to be any extension just for customizing what your top bar looks like, which is a bit strange.

I'm on Ubuntu 12.04.
 
V

Vanillalite

Ask me about the GAF Notebook
I haven't had time to respond to my 12.10 install I've done and I'm posting from now. I'm about to go to bed since I have to get up at like 5:30 in the morning so I'll try and post more later.

Suffice to say where 12.04 seemed to be just an extremely stable and less buggy and solid version of Ubuntu with Gnome 3 and the Unity shell 12.10 seems to take this a step further and really seems to add on another layer of polish that I've just not seen with Ubuntu up until this point.

I'll explain more later when I get the chance.

PS: Wish Spotify would come to the Ubuntu app store.
 
K

-KRS-

Member
So I installed Arch Linux on another computer last week, and I used the new install media (which I burned to a CD btw!) to install it. But I noticed that they apparently have removed the awesome installer they had, and now you have to do much more manually. Has this been discussed here yet? I just don't understand why they would remove that installer because it was so damn good. I could get a system up and running in under 5 minutes with that installer. Perhaps it's the switch from sysvinit to systemd, and grub to grub2, that promted the change. Apparently there are newer scripts that should help you do some things, but it's still way more manual typing of commands to make things work.

Oh well, I did get it to work without any issues so I guess it's not that bad. But I will miss the old installer.
 
Z

zoku88

Member
synt4x said:
So I installed Arch Linux on another computer last week, and I used the new install media (which I burned to a CD btw!) to install it. But I noticed that they apparently have removed the awesome installer they had, and now you have to do much more manually. Has this been discussed here yet? I just don't understand why they would remove that installer because it was so damn good. I could get a system up and running in under 5 minutes with that installer. Perhaps it's the switch from sysvinit to systemd, and grub to grub2, that promted the change. Apparently there are newer scripts that should help you do some things, but it's still way more manual typing of commands to make things work.

Oh well, I did get it to work without any issues so I guess it's not that bad. But I will miss the old installer.
Click to expand...

Funny enough, I've installed Arch twice within a short period of time. The first time on my (really old) netbook and the second time on my desktop. I was really confused when the install process was totally different between those two times.

I actually like the new way better, though. I wasn't totally sure of everything that the other one was doing. I feel much more comfortable when I do things myself (like mount partitions at desired locations, etc.)

Maybe it's because I was using Gentoo before...

Funny enough, the swap partition is something I forgot in both installs.


TLDR: Automated setups scare the crap out of me.
 
P

peakish

Member
synt4x said:
So I installed Arch Linux on another computer last week, and I used the new install media (which I burned to a CD btw!) to install it. But I noticed that they apparently have removed the awesome installer they had, and now you have to do much more manually. Has this been discussed here yet? I just don't understand why they would remove that installer because it was so damn good. I could get a system up and running in under 5 minutes with that installer. Perhaps it's the switch from sysvinit to systemd, and grub to grub2, that promted the change. Apparently there are newer scripts that should help you do some things, but it's still way more manual typing of commands to make things work.

Oh well, I did get it to work without any issues so I guess it's not that bad. But I will miss the old installer.
Click to expand...
They removed it because it was unmaintained and (IIRC) lacked behind in features compared to the install scripts. They've said that if someone steps up and brings it to par again they'll probably reinclude it in future install medias, I think someone has volunteered so we'll see what happens. I haven't tried the scripts myself but they seem simple enough anyway that I'll probably go for them in the future. Very KISS.

Between this, /lib/ -> /usr/lib/ symlinking (which to be fair broke some systems - always read the front page, haha), moving configuration out of rc.conf and into separate files in preparation for systemd adoption (just about official at this point) the forums and mailing lists have been hit hard with negativity the last months, lol.
 
Q

qizah

Unconfirmed Member
Brettison said:
I haven't had time to respond to my 12.10 install I've done and I'm posting from now. I'm about to go to bed since I have to get up at like 5:30 in the morning so I'll try and post more later.

Suffice to say where 12.04 seemed to be just an extremely stable and less buggy and solid version of Ubuntu with Gnome 3 and the Unity shell 12.10 seems to take this a step further and really seems to add on another layer of polish that I've just not seen with Ubuntu up until this point.

I'll explain more later when I get the chance.

PS: Wish Spotify would come to the Ubuntu app store.
Click to expand...
I'm excited to finally use it.

So close but so far. Also, scared of doing an upgrade. Didn't work so well last time =/.
 
T

ThatObviousUser

ὁ αἴσχιστος παῖς εἶ
Massa said:
I think they look similar on the surface but I find them incredibly different on day to day use.
Click to expand...

Yeah, Gnome is a LOT smoother and the workflow support is sublime. Unity is garrish and tries to be utulitarian without being useful at all.
 
K

-KRS-

Member
peakish said:
They removed it because it was unmaintained and (IIRC) lacked behind in features compared to the install scripts. They've said that if someone steps up and brings it to par again they'll probably reinclude it in future install medias, I think someone has volunteered so we'll see what happens. I haven't tried the scripts myself but they seem simple enough anyway that I'll probably go for them in the future. Very KISS.

Between this, /lib/ -> /usr/lib/ symlinking (which to be fair broke some systems - always read the front page, haha), moving configuration out of rc.conf and into separate files in preparation for systemd adoption (just about official at this point) the forums and mailing lists have been hit hard with negativity the last months, lol.
Click to expand...

Oh I see. Well hopefully someone steps up and fixes it. Not that the new way is bad but it was just very convenient before.
And oh god the /lib/ -> /usr/lib/ thing gave me headaches at first because I had a ton of shit in /lib/ that wasn't owned by glibc that I had to remove manually. First I just moved /lib/ to something else like /lib-old/, but that didn't work because oops now I can't run any commands at all lol. Had to move it back to the old name using system rescue CD. Then I read the little guide they had and eventually I got glibc to upgrade without complaints.

I still haven't switched over to systemd yet though, except on that computer that I installed Arch on the other week. New installs do use systemd by default right? I should switch to that on my other computers this weekend. It's installed and everything but I think I have to add a boot option to grub to actually use it. I assume there's a nice wiki page on the Arch wiki to help me make the switch.
 
P

peakish

Member
synt4x said:
Oh I see. Well hopefully someone steps up and fixes it. Not that the new way is bad but it was just very convenient before.
And oh god the /lib/ -> /usr/lib/ thing gave me headaches at first because I had a ton of shit in /lib/ that wasn't owned by glibc that I had to remove manually. First I just moved /lib/ to something else like /lib-old/, but that didn't work because oops now I can't run any commands at all lol. Had to move it back to the old name using system rescue CD. Then I read the little guide they had and eventually I got glibc to upgrade without complaints.

I still haven't switched over to systemd yet though, except on that computer that I installed Arch on the other week. New installs do use systemd by default right? I should switch to that on my other computers this weekend. It's installed and everything but I think I have to add a boot option to grub to actually use it. I assume there's a nice wiki page on the Arch wiki to help me make the switch.
Click to expand...
Nah, as far as I know it's still initscripts as default for the time being. Systemd is included on the install medias though and they seem to encourage users adopting as soon as they can to ease the transition.

Besides the wiki, here's a forum post by a developer with some short guidelines for the transition. I haven't gone over myself yet (no Internet at home for the moment >_>) so I can't guarantee it.

Sorry about the /lib/ thing btw, though it's a bit funny to imagine your face when you suddenly couldn't run commands anymore, haha! Just wait until they move on with /bin/ -> /usr/bin/ etc. Supposedly that's after a new Pacman version is released which can do that a bit more smoothly than this last thing, heh.
 
K

-KRS-

Member
Hehe oh the /lib/ to /lib-old/ thing was easy to fix. I always carry around a USB memory stick with System Rescue CD with me for cases like that because I know how I am, so it wasn't any major trouble. But yeah it sounds like the whole /bin/ to /usr/bin/ move is going to be way worse. Hopefully they'll figure out something.

Anyway, I made the switch to systemd on my netbook yesterday and it was actually much easier than I had expected. Took maybe an hour to get it all mostly set up the way it was. But I'm not sure where you enter in commands that should execute at boot. Like the equivalent of /etc/rc.local. There's /etc/tmpfiles.d/ but that seems to be more for creating and deleting directories or writing values to files at boot. The weird thing is that what I want to do should work using that, but it doesn't for some reason.

What I want to do is to change the values of up_threshold and sampling_down_factor in /sys/device/system/cpu/cpufreq/ondemand/ to something more sane. So I created a file /etc/tmpfiles.d/cpufreq.conf that contains this:
Code: 
w /sys/devices/system/cpu/cpufreq/ondemand/up_threshold - - - - 25
w /sys/devices/system/cpu/cpufreq/ondemand/sample_down_rate - - - - 10

This is supposed to write the numerical values there to the files, but it doesn't work. The - - - - are for optional settings for file owner and permissions I believe so they're not important in this case. But the thing with the ondemand directory is that it only appears once the cpupower deamon has started and applied the ondemand governing policy. So what I think happens is that it tries to do what's in the cpufreq.conf file before the policy has been changed and fails because of it. I haven't learned exactly how journalctl works yet though so it's a bit difficult to examine the problem. :p

But there must be another way of doing this, or at least a way of specifying that the cpufreq.conf file shouldn't be executed until cpupower has started. Like you can specify in the unit files of systemd that this particular .service needs/wants this other .service/.target/whatever to be started to work. And with rc.local you could just for example put a "sleep 15" command in front of the echo command. Is there a way to do specify something like that for tmpfiles?

I know there's a .service for rc.local compatibility, but, well... if I'm switching to systemd I'm switching completely.

Other than that it's been a breeze. Seems really good, I like it a lot so far. Just have to get used to it now. It also actually seemed to boot a bit faster than before. Not a huge difference but still. Now to make the switch on the rest of my computers.
 
N

Nostremitus

Member
Ok, so this has probably been talked to death, but I'm a n00b. I recently (three days) switched over from Windows to Ubuntu... and have had nothing but trouble. The system stalls when I try to install updated graphics drivers. I can install the old drivers minus the post release updates, but then everything starts getting buggy... any fixes for this? I installed Ubuntu onto my 2yr old HP Pavilion dv7 with AMD Turion 64 processor.
 
N

Nilaul

Member
Hi guys,

Im using cinamon mint 13(maya). I remember one time I deleted files of my USB, but the files where still there hidden and the only way to delete them was to have admin (sudo access).

However since this is my fathers computer, this whole operation would be too complicated for him to do. So I've been wondering if there is any way so that it is always possible to delete stuff from any USB without admin/sudo access.

Thanks
 
M

Massa

Member
Nostremitus said:
Ok, so this has probably been talked to death, but I'm a n00b. I recently (three days) switched over from Windows to Ubuntu... and have had nothing but trouble. The system stalls when I try to install updated graphics drivers. I can install the old drivers minus the post release updates, but then everything starts getting buggy... any fixes for this? I installed Ubuntu onto my 2yr old HP Pavilion dv7 with AMD Turion 64 processor.
Click to expand...

Try using the "Unity 2D" option on the login screen.


Nilaul said:
Hi guys,

Im using cinamon mint 13(maya). I remember one time I deleted files of my USB, but the files where still there hidden and the only way to delete them was to have admin (sudo access).

However since this is my fathers computer, this whole operation would be too complicated for him to do. So I've been wondering if there is any way so that it is always possible to delete stuff from any USB without admin/sudo access.

Thanks
Click to expand...

The user with permissions to view and delete files on the USB stick is the user that was active when it was plugged in. The only scenario where it should ask for a password to delete files is when a user plugged in the USB stick and then the session was switched to a different user; the new user won't have permissions to delete anything.

I'd suggest you give it another go and it should work. Unless the Linux Mint people did something horribly broken with the default configuration.
 
N

Nilaul

Member
Massa said:
Try using the "Unity 2D" option on the login screen.




The user with permissions to view and delete files on the USB stick is the user that was active when it was plugged in. The only scenario where it should ask for a password to delete files is when a user plugged in the USB stick and then the session was switched to a different user; the new user won't have permissions to delete anything.

I'd suggest you give it another go and it should work. Unless the Linux Mint people did something horribly broken with the default configuration.
Click to expand...

Edit: I just tried deleting, usb still full.
 
Z

zoku88

Member
Hieberrr said:
Damn it! I want Elementary OS :( when is this thing being released?!
Click to expand...

I tried it's mail application once.

It wasn't very good...

Minimalist to the point of unusability :-/

It doesn't seem to bode well for the rest of it, although I haven't seen any of it...
 
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