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Linux Distro Noob thread of Linux noobs

Tracker runs at low priority so it shouldn't affect your usage. SteveWinwood's problem sounds kernel related, no user space app should lock up a system like that. Probably the driver for something is acting up.
How would I start to diagnose that so I can fix it?
Oh, since we're talking about IO thrashing, maybe installing something like iotop would be useful.
I got a hold of this and my untrained eyes notice nothing strange. When something locks up (chromium, the desktop, the whole computer, or even just the terminal now) there is no surge in IO or writing or anything. kjournald pops up every once and a while but it's using nothing and it's apparently normal, outside of that and an occasional chromium write, there seems to nothing happening on this end.

I should just scrap ubuntu and try mint and cinnamon instead and see if that just solves everything.
 

Vanillalite

Ask me about the GAF Notebook
You know when you have one of those days where you're not planning on doing anything, but your mind says lets fuck around and do a project or something. Then you just happen to randomly fuck up something stupid and your like LOLWUT.... wtf did I just do?

Yeah I had one of those days today.... LOL
 

TheNatural

My Member!
Slightly OT, but I think more relevant here than the build thread because I'm planning on building a PC with Linux on it, and don't know how manufacturers compare in driver support.

Basically looking to build a PC for about $300 that will play indie games, and whatever Steam games Valve has running - nothing seriously powerful.

For driver support on processor/mobo, should I go AMD or Intel? For video, NVidia or AMD/ATI?

I had a cheap Radeon on a Core 2 Duo last time around, and one of my favorite indie games stutterered unplayable on Ubuntu last time around. I've heard AMD's driver support isn't stellar for Linux.

Any advice on companies, and a build to go with that would be best value?
 

Vanillalite

Ask me about the GAF Notebook
Driver support goes like this IMO....

Intel > Nvidia >>>>> AMD


Use to be Intel >>>>> Nvidia >>>>>> AMD


Nvidia has steppped their game up though. Intel has always been solid. AMD says they are going to step it up, but I'll believe it when I see it.
 

-KRS-

Member
AMD has said they'll step it up for years now and so far it's still really bad. So yeah, I'll believe that when I see it.
 

b0b

Neo Member
the difference between CPUs is the same as on windows - AMD or Intel... Whatever brand you prefer. Intel has better CPUs (speed and power-consumption), AMDs are cheaper. Your choice



If you want to play games on Linux, go with Nvidia as GPU. They still offer by far the best 3D-Performance. You will have to use their proprietary driver of course, the open-source one lacks in 3D-Performance. The proprietary driver is considered as "bad" only because Nvidia refuses to use the proper APIs and the default Linux graphics-stack (KMS, xrandr, Gallium etc.) and implements their own ways (Twinview for multi-monitor-support ie).
Anyway - nothing beats it in 3D-Performance.

Intel is fine. Their driver support is good. Their chips aren't. Intel HD 4000 might be okay, I guess. The linux-driver is lacking some features of the equivalent windows-driver, because of patents and stuff through...

AMD/ATI... well... I have one at the moment
The proprietary Catalyst-driver was (still) bad last time I tried it (some years ago). I heard it's better now, but haven't tested it. And I don't really care honestly. I'm running a rolling release distro and ATI is just damn slow to support newer X.org and/or Kernels.
I'm on the open-source-radeon driver, and I'm okay with it. The 3D-performance is mediocre at best (ATI 4xxx middle-tech-something), otherwise I don't have problems with it.
 

TheNatural

My Member!
the difference between CPUs is the same as on windows - AMD or Intel... Whatever brand you prefer. Intel has better CPUs (speed and power-consumption), AMDs are cheaper. Your choice



If you want to play games on Linux, go with Nvidia as GPU. They still offer by far the best 3D-Performance. You will have to use their proprietary driver of course, the open-source one lacks in 3D-Performance. The proprietary driver is considered as "bad" only because Nvidia refuses to use the proper APIs and the default Linux graphics-stack (KMS, xrandr, Gallium etc.) and implements their own ways (Twinview for multi-monitor-support ie).
Anyway - nothing beats it in 3D-Performance.

Intel is fine. Their driver support is good. Their chips aren't. Intel HD 4000 might be okay, I guess. The linux-driver is lacking some features of the equivalent windows-driver, because of patents and stuff through...

AMD/ATI... well... I have one at the moment
The proprietary Catalyst-driver was (still) bad last time I tried it (some years ago). I heard it's better now, but haven't tested it. And I don't really care honestly. I'm running a rolling release distro and ATI is just damn slow to support newer X.org and/or Kernels.
I'm on the open-source-radeon driver, and I'm okay with it. The 3D-performance is mediocre at best (ATI 4xxx middle-tech-something), otherwise I don't have problems with it.

Thanks for the breakdown. I think I'm going to wait out a barebones AMD bundle that tigerdirect.com has sales on every so often (unless anyone has their own recommendation.)

Then get an nVidia card and I should be good to go.
 
Any ideas on a very barebones linux/unix kernel? Taking a class on Operating Systems and we're dealing with linux system commands, threading, synchronization, I/O, etc. and I wanna make it a project to assemble my own OS (got a raspberry pi I can use) in the future, just for the fuck of it.

I really just don't want to do assembly level kernel stuff, but then again I kinda just want to see what I can accomplish.

Any ideas?
 

Massa

Member
Any ideas on a very barebones linux/unix kernel? Taking a class on Operating Systems and we're dealing with linux system commands, threading, synchronization, I/O, etc. and I wanna make it a project to assemble my own OS (got a raspberry pi I can use) in the future, just for the fuck of it.

I really just don't want to do assembly level kernel stuff, but then again I kinda just want to see what I can accomplish.

Any ideas?

xv6 is what I used on my OS class, it's great. It's very barebones and well documented.

There's also Minix, though I haven't looked at it.
 

Vanillalite

Ask me about the GAF Notebook
Got bored and tried something new...

iblwmsbTCD9LSd.png
 

Ventron

Member
Any ideas on a very barebones linux/unix kernel? Taking a class on Operating Systems and we're dealing with linux system commands, threading, synchronization, I/O, etc. and I wanna make it a project to assemble my own OS (got a raspberry pi I can use) in the future, just for the fuck of it.

I really just don't want to do assembly level kernel stuff, but then again I kinda just want to see what I can accomplish.

Any ideas?

My OS class used Minix. It's a strict micro-kernel so there's some extra crap to do when you want to change anything other than the scheduler because you have to deal with message passing. This has the upside of, if that module, say I/O, were to crash, the kernel can still run.
 
Hey guys, a question about shells.

So I'm using xterm right now, but what kind of shell does it use or is it it's own kind of shell? Looking on the internet, I see that there shells like csh, bash, tcsh and stuff. So is xterm/terminals in general just a "wrapper" for a shell? It would be cool if someone could give me a brief summary/overview of what the hierarchy looks like starting from xterm down.
 

flowsnake

Member
Hey guys, a question about shells.

So I'm using xterm right now, but what kind of shell does it use or is it it's own kind of shell? Looking on the internet, I see that there shells like csh, bash, tcsh and stuff. So is xterm/terminals in general just a "wrapper" for a shell? It would be cool if someone could give me a brief summary/overview of what the hierarchy looks like starting from xterm down.

The terminal is separate from the shell, and you can use whichever shell you like with whichever terminal. You can see the current one you're using by running "echo $SHELL". The default one can be changed by using "chsh".
 
xv6 is what I used on my OS class, it's great. It's very barebones and well documented.

There's also Minix, though I haven't looked at it.

My OS class used Minix. It's a strict micro-kernel so there's some extra crap to do when you want to change anything other than the scheduler because you have to deal with message passing. This has the upside of, if that module, say I/O, were to crash, the kernel can still run.

Thanks guys! I'll definitely look into it. We haven't done too much because the class just started, but I do have to create a basic shell so I wonder how far this is going to go. We are running a modified Debian install but so far I've been able to use the terminal in OSX, mostly bash stuff but occasionally dipping into the bourne shell.
 
Q

qizah

Unconfirmed Member
Anyone else love doing fresh installs and hate it at the same time?

I'm thinking of doing a fresh install when Ubuntu 13.04 comes out. I'll be done with school around that time and I can get rid of the extra crap I did when I was messing around with the system. The only thing I absolutely dread is a) I'm scared I'm going to mess up the install (I usually do something incorrectly) and b) that I'm going to have to redownload and remove things I did in the previous install and that makes me not want to do it.
 

Jzero

Member
Anyone else love doing fresh installs and hate it at the same time?

I'm thinking of doing a fresh install when Ubuntu 13.04 comes out. I'll be done with school around that time and I can get rid of the extra crap I did when I was messing around with the system. The only thing I absolutely dread is a) I'm scared I'm going to mess up the install (I usually do something incorrectly) and b) that I'm going to have to redownload and remove things I did in the previous install and that makes me not want to do it.
Off topic but i love your avatar.
 
Anyone else love doing fresh installs and hate it at the same time?

I'm thinking of doing a fresh install when Ubuntu 13.04 comes out. I'll be done with school around that time and I can get rid of the extra crap I did when I was messing around with the system. The only thing I absolutely dread is a) I'm scared I'm going to mess up the install (I usually do something incorrectly) and b) that I'm going to have to redownload and remove things I did in the previous install and that makes me not want to do it.

That is exactly it. I love it. I also hate it. I guess I'm lucky, in that I get to do it relatively often for friends or relatives, so I kinda get my installing-stuff kicks from that. Still, there's nothing like installing a new system and breathing that fresh config file scent in...

...and then having to go hunt for your old .bashrc because nothing works. >.>

To fight these cravings, I regularly open up Synaptic (still on Ubuntu, heh) and just install anything that looks cool, play with it, and promptly forget about it. Games and window managers feature heavily here. My most recent love is awesomeWM, a minimal, keyboard-shortcut-heavy tiling* window manager. I've been playing with it on and off for ages, but could never stick to it. Recently I devoted an afternoon to making it actually usable and managed to get most of my creature comforts from XFCE running (battery manager, network manager, etc.). Quite proud of my commitment to it, actually. I could post a screenshot but it's embarrassingly average and unedited compared to some of the shots you can find via their website.

If anyone wants to try awesome, I'm more than happy to share the configs I have. The lack of widgets initially was what turned me off it, but once I had those (the aforementioned afternoon was well-spent) it was a relatively simple matter to get used to completely mouseless window management.

*Tiling window management: by default every new window you open splits the screen further, using up all available screen space while keeping everything visible. awesome (and some similar WMs, I think) handles this by having many workspaces** which you can switch between using a key, usually the Windows key or 'Mod4', and a number. So you open a browser window, then switch to another workspace, then open your IDE, or whatever, and switch between them. One of the most fun things to do is go to an empty workspace and open loads of terminal windows, each one splitting the screen, and running some process in each - it looks cool and productive.

**A concept I've not found in Windows - basically multiple 'desktops' which can each have one or more applications on them, giving you much much more effective screen space and, to my mind, head space.
 

Vanillalite

Ask me about the GAF Notebook
Anyone else love doing fresh installs and hate it at the same time?

I'm thinking of doing a fresh install when Ubuntu 13.04 comes out. I'll be done with school around that time and I can get rid of the extra crap I did when I was messing around with the system. The only thing I absolutely dread is a) I'm scared I'm going to mess up the install (I usually do something incorrectly) and b) that I'm going to have to redownload and remove things I did in the previous install and that makes me not want to do it.

I've installed enough random distros that are pre compiled and not some hackathon like gentoo or arch to be okay.

The bigger thing is trying a fresh install and getting all of my programs to work. This especially is true if I change distros. I tend to always stay in the Debian tree, but that doesn't mean shit always works out the way I want. You sometimes end up with missing libs or in the case of a program like spotify you might have newer versions of the lib installed than what spotify wants. So you have to like backport and dual install two libs.

The actual download and install seems to take half as much time as it does for me getting shit setup post install. Oh and don't even get me started on trying to get ATI shit right post install.

PS: Can ya tell I've been distro hoping lately? LOL :p

 
Thanks for the info, much appreciated. Does processor brand necessarily matter, or are we just speaking strictly video card?
Processors are well supported regardless (Intel, AMD), since that's the domain of the server and Linux servers are quite literally serious effing business.

That doesn't mean there aren't occasionally weird quirks, but they have more to do with cutting edge power saving features, compiler support, and other similarly technical things.

Thinking of going AMD CPU for my new build as well. The 2nd gen bulldozers are not that far behind what Intel has on the market, and considerably cheaper. (part of this is because Intel has dragged their feet in releasing the 22 nm chips)
 

benjipwns

Banned
Anyone else love doing fresh installs and hate it at the same time?

I'm thinking of doing a fresh install when Ubuntu 13.04 comes out. I'll be done with school around that time and I can get rid of the extra crap I did when I was messing around with the system. The only thing I absolutely dread is a) I'm scared I'm going to mess up the install (I usually do something incorrectly) and b) that I'm going to have to redownload and remove things I did in the previous install and that makes me not want to do it.
I had upgraded to a horrible point on a laptop where I finally wiped and fresh installed. (It's mostly just used for some web browsing, podcast playing and occasionally videos but the two and a half minute boot and shutdown times finally convinced me...) It's a lot harder to mess up base installs these days than it used to be.

If you're doing Ubuntu, you can log into the Software Center and it sorta relists everything you've downloaded for you so you can install it all back from that list when you do a fresh one.

That really helped me. It said "hey, you dope, you installed all this shit you never used, this was part of the problem!"
 

Vanillalite

Ask me about the GAF Notebook
On a side note I know this thread isn't exactly super active, but I wish we could get a new OP just to get things back up to date. The OP is going on like 3 years old now, and it's semi out of date.
 

Vic

Please help me with my bad english
I've installed enough random distros that are pre compiled and not some hackathon like gentoo or arch to be okay.

The bigger thing is trying a fresh install and getting all of my programs to work. This especially is true if I change distros. I tend to always stay in the Debian tree, but that doesn't mean shit always works out the way I want. You sometimes end up with missing libs or in the case of a program like spotify you might have newer versions of the lib installed than what spotify wants. So you have to like backport and dual install two libs.

The actual download and install seems to take half as much time as it does for me getting shit setup post install. Oh and don't even get me started on trying to get ATI shit right post install.

PS: Can ya tell I've been distro hoping lately? LOL :p
What's the WM in that screenshot?
 

hom3land

Member
any suggestions for a wifi adapter that will work out of the box with ubuntu? The cheap edimax I have doesn't work, and looking online, the first step to try to get the adapter running is download essentials... which I can't do as I can't get online. I've browsed this list https://help.ubuntu.com/community/WifiDocs/WirelessCardsSupported but doesn't seem to have be that up to date.

Also would there be a difference in better compatibility between a PCI wifi adapter or a usb? either would work for me.

Or could I run a VM of xubuntu, save the build-essentials to a thumbdrive and transfer it to my new install?
 

injurai

Banned
are their any multitouch track pad drivers for linux? Synaptics seems to have some, but they don't really offer them to dl. I think they are exclusive for OEM builds.

I would really enjoy two touch scrolling.
 
Q

qizah

Unconfirmed Member
Off topic but i love your avatar.
Thanks!

I've installed enough random distros that are pre compiled and not some hackathon like gentoo or arch to be okay.

The bigger thing is trying a fresh install and getting all of my programs to work. This especially is true if I change distros. I tend to always stay in the Debian tree, but that doesn't mean shit always works out the way I want. You sometimes end up with missing libs or in the case of a program like spotify you might have newer versions of the lib installed than what spotify wants. So you have to like backport and dual install two libs.

The actual download and install seems to take half as much time as it does for me getting shit setup post install. Oh and don't even get me started on trying to get ATI shit right post install.

PS: Can ya tell I've been distro hoping lately? LOL :p
I haven't really explored beyond Ubuntu. I've tried OpenSuse before, but that's about it :p.

I had upgraded to a horrible point on a laptop where I finally wiped and fresh installed. (It's mostly just used for some web browsing, podcast playing and occasionally videos but the two and a half minute boot and shutdown times finally convinced me...) It's a lot harder to mess up base installs these days than it used to be.

If you're doing Ubuntu, you can log into the Software Center and it sorta relists everything you've downloaded for you so you can install it all back from that list when you do a fresh one.

That really helped me. It said "hey, you dope, you installed all this shit you never used, this was part of the problem!"
Oh didn't know about the USC has a list of the applications you've installed. Thanks for that!
 

peakish

Member
are their any multitouch track pad drivers for linux? Synaptics seems to have some, but they don't really offer them to dl. I think they are exclusive for OEM builds.

I would really enjoy two touch scrolling.
The standard xorg synaptics driver should work for two-finger scrolling, at least it does for me (version straight from the Arch repositories). It's a bit crap though, I'm currently using a more "proper" multitouch driver [0]. Smoother, but not exactly super easy to configure (a fork called MTrack has easier options, but eh).

I haven't dug too deep into this, but it seems to me like the touchpad situation in Linux is very sub par right now. For instance I can "overload" my MBA touchpad by swiping over it with my entire hand (like when cleaning dust from it), crashing my X-server. Not super common, but annoying. That and OOTB settings being way worse than OSX provides.

[0] http://bitmath.org/code/multitouch/
 
Q

qizah

Unconfirmed Member
According to Webupd8, Dota2 might be coming to Linux, Natively.

It's pretty much a rumour for now with not a lot of ground, but it'd be cool to see happen!
 
According to Webupd8, Dota2 might be coming to Linux, Natively.

It's pretty much a rumour for now with not a lot of ground, but it'd be cool to see happen!

Sweet. Another reason to try Dota 2 again...typical enough that LoL is the only big MOBA not to even look sideways at Linux, and it's the only one I'm competent at.

Heroes of Newerth has a Linux client, but man I am so bad at that game.
 

injurai

Banned
The standard xorg synaptics driver should work for two-finger scrolling, at least it does for me (version straight from the Arch repositories). It's a bit crap though, I'm currently using a more "proper" multitouch driver [0]. Smoother, but not exactly super easy to configure (a fork called MTrack has easier options, but eh).

I haven't dug too deep into this, but it seems to me like the touchpad situation in Linux is very sub par right now. For instance I can "overload" my MBA touchpad by swiping over it with my entire hand (like when cleaning dust from it), crashing my X-server. Not super common, but annoying. That and OOTB settings being way worse than OSX provides.

[0] http://bitmath.org/code/multitouch/

Ugh... well thanks, this is probably the best answer I've ever gotten.

Hopefully Ubuntu will identify this as an area to work in when going forward.
 

Vanillalite

Ask me about the GAF Notebook
any suggestions for a wifi adapter that will work out of the box with ubuntu? The cheap edimax I have doesn't work, and looking online, the first step to try to get the adapter running is download essentials... which I can't do as I can't get online. I've browsed this list https://help.ubuntu.com/community/WifiDocs/WirelessCardsSupported but doesn't seem to have be that up to date.

Also would there be a difference in better compatibility between a PCI wifi adapter or a usb? either would work for me.

Or could I run a VM of xubuntu, save the build-essentials to a thumbdrive and transfer it to my new install?

Anyone that I've known that has had wifi problems has just needed to download the broadcom drivers from synaptic. IDK if you could somehow download those to a flash drive and transfer them over or what.

PS: I know you all think I'm some Ubuntu fanboy, but I haven't been running their desktop distro for a long while now. That being said I actually think their Tablet video looks really good. Looks really meh on a phone, but it looks rather legit for a Tablet. Then back to just ok for desktop use. I might go so far as to say it looks better than both iOS and Android Tablet wise.

Still have all of those wacky privacy issues in the dash though even if Canonical is trying to straighten that out for the next desktop distro.
 

zoku88

Member
So, has anyone tried out the Ubuntu Phone OS yet?

I decided to put it on my old Galaxy Nexus. Obviously, it has some kinda to it (and is kind of slow.)

But the design seems good, except for the lock screen. It's not so intuitive what to do there...
 

injurai

Banned
So, has anyone tried out the Ubuntu Phone OS yet?

I decided to put it on my old Galaxy Nexus. Obviously, it has some kinda to it (and is kind of slow.)

But the design seems good, except for the lock screen. It's not so intuitive what to do there...

you can do that? Just put different OSs on different phones...

I need to get into this whole smartphone thing, im really missing out.
 

zoku88

Member
you can do that? Just put different OSs on different phones...

I need to get into this whole smartphone thing, im really missing out.

Ehh, it depends.

The Nexus phones have easy to unlock bootloaders, so as long as someone supplies you an image to flash specific to the phone, and the image has the necessary drivers, you can put a different OS on there.

Unfortunately, phones don't have anything equivalent to a BIOS or EUFI, so ROMs have to be phone specific.
 

injurai

Banned
Ehh, it depends.

The Nexus phones have easy to unlock bootloaders, so as long as someone supplies you an image to flash specific to the phone, and the image has the necessary drivers, you can put a different OS on there.

Unfortunately, phones don't have anything equivalent to a BIOS or EUFI, so ROMs have to be phone specific.

How does the phone manage to still work on your network? Seems doing something like this could render it useless on cell networks.
 

zoku88

Member
How does the phone manage to still work on your network? Seems doing something like this could render it useless on cell networks.

That would be affected by the baseband. Since the ROMs are phone specific, anyway, they can just include the same baseband in their ROM.
 

Vanillalite

Ask me about the GAF Notebook
Granted it has only been a few days, but I'm really enjoying my switch to Crunchbang. Not that it isn't without its own quirks or faults, but I'm generally digging the OS as a whole.
 
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