Support NeoGAF

[Kacho]

Steam OS is already having a positive impact on Windows gaming so yeah, competition is always good

For sure. It's good to see Microsoft trying™ to improve on handhelds and the full-screen experience, but I suspect they will always lag behind SteamOS there.

Personally I don't see myself buying a Windows handheld or building a Windows Machine for my TV anytime soon. Valve smokes them there.

 

[Crayon]

I heard that Zorin distro had 780,000 downloads from Windows users in the space of a month. I wonder how other distros are doing? Could be it's actually massive and growing.. or turned a corner to a bright future?

The way I look at it, there are a bunch of people who could make the switch fine, but they have no real reason to. The best reason is that you just like it better. But you wouldn't know that unless you were purely just curious and tried.

There are tons and tons of people who could easily switch if they wanted to. They have the use case and they have the computer skills (really you should be above average to try), but without a decent reason to go through the trouble, there's no motivator. Windows 11 is actually providing some motivation to try something else.

 

[Poppinfresh]

The way I look at it, there are a bunch of people who could make the switch fine, but they have no real reason to. The best reason is that you just like it better. But you wouldn't know that unless you were purely just curious and tried.

There are tons and tons of people who could easily switch if they wanted to. They have the use case and they have the computer skills (really you should be above average to try), but without a decent reason to go through the trouble, there's no motivator. Windows 11 is actually providing some motivation to try something else.

That's pretty much what happened ot me.

I tired it, liked it, and I can't see going back to Windows on my gaming PC unless something releases that just won't run on Linux and isn't available for a console.

 

[simpatico]

With the latest round of kernel level anti cheat fuckery, I don't think Microsoft will do what it would take to make me stay on Windows. Basically the Dave's Garage Pro Mode with the ability to opt out of any and all telemetry. Hell I'll even go back to paying big bucks for it. It's been far too intrusive for a while and we're just getting less and less for it. Every UI change in the past 3 iterations worked against power users. I was going to set up dual boot over the winter holiday with Windows just getting a small partition for any extreme incompatibility. But I'm just raw dogging it so I push through.

 

[TheDreadLord]

As someone who actually uses Linux in my daily work, I just don't see it becoming a viable option for the mainstream PC market. The people hyping this probably never used a Unix-based system in a serious way. Android and iOS offer completely different user experiences, and macOS is the closest thing to being "easy" for regular users… Yet even macOS can get complicated once you step into more advanced uses.

 

[Topher]

As someone who actually uses Linux in my daily work, I just don't see it becoming a viable option for the mainstream PC market. The people hyping this probably never used a Unix-based system in a serious way. Android and iOS offer completely different user experiences, and macOS is the closest thing to being "easy" for regular users… Yet even macOS can get complicated once you step into more advanced uses.

Well.....that's what many have said. For Linux to more acceptable by more it will have to improve its interface. The options out there right now are predominately KDE and Gnome along with a few others, but none of them really wow anyone.

MacOS is great and easy, but tied to their own hardware so doesn't really help in this discussion.

 

[RickMasters]

I just....dont....see it happening.

 

[Kacho]

Fucking MacOS. My wife had a Macbook and it would do everything like Windows but be slightly different. Shit pissed me off!

It's like how we have standardized FPS controls and then some asshole puts aiming on R3. You motherfucker...

 

[Hero of Spielberg]

Fucking MacOS. My wife had a Macbook and it would do everything like Windows but be slightly different. Shit pissed me off!

It's like how we have standardized FPS controls and then some asshole puts aiming on R3. You motherfucker...

I had to use MacOS at an agency I worked at for 4 years. It's the fucking worst, I hate it so so much. Fucking 'Command' key … what the fuck is that

 

[falconhoof]

I learned a lot today from this thread.

• I learned that Windows can never, ever, ever, ever be beaten, and Rome will never, ever, ever, ever fall.
• I learned that Linux was terrible 25 years ago, therefore will be terrible for ever and ever and ever no matter the so called improvements.
• I learned that performance of today is a prophecy of the future. Things never get better or worse. Windows 11 AI Agentic Privacy Sniffer Edition is as good as all previous versions.
• I learned that once you've got market share you can never fail. I know I can trust 3DFX to deliver the best in 3D gaming, Voodoo Forever!

--Posted from Internet Explorer on a Nokia 1100​

 

[Fess]

Most people don't need a "main PC" anymore. They use their phone or a tablet, you can do everything you need to do outside of specialized applications.

if Linux is better for gaming, and the primary reason I have a PC for gaming, why wouldn't I use Linux? I thought thre Steam Deck experience was just so far superior to what Windows offers in terms of gaming and I suspect the same will be true of the Steam Machine.

Nobody is trying to stop you. If you're already satisfied with Steam Deck as your main platform for PC games then I understand that Steam Machine seems interesting, it's much more powerful.

For me personally it's mostly interesting because it's a direct competitor on an OS/UI level to what Microsoft is trying to do. I think/hope it will lead to an improved Windows experience. I like toys but otherwise I have no actual use of the device myself. It's limiting what I can play and it's supposedly below even OG PS5 in power, which I've already packed away for being weak.

I'll definitely get the Steam Controller though!

Linux itself is more interesting, I could use that on my regular PC. But there needs to be some OS level and driver support changes first. Maybe Steam Machine can help turn the tide a bit we'll see.

 

[Pimpbaa]

Steam OS is the preferred os for PC gaming handhelds. Various Linux builds using proton on a user built PC is a mixed bag. The new steam machine could make some sort of foothold if they don't price it retarded and figure out a way around the anti cheat software issues in MP games. Paying as much for a device as the ps5 pro that is weaker with less vram with no fix for a lot of MP games doesn't make a lot of sense and probably won't make a lot of sales. I said this before, but if they go that route that is like bringing out the the steam deck NOW with it's 2022 specs and pricing it considerably more than the switch 2.

 

[Sorcerer]

Valve may be able to turn Linux into "The Gaming Platform" because Steam OS is friction free if you just want to play games.

But consider that Valve themselves had to kind of reluctantly admit that they have to rely on a web browser in Steam OS to make up for lack of apps in the desktop mode.

The amount of work Valve would need to take on Windows completely would be daunting and I think they would have to get larger and go public. They probably would be wise to stay out of that space.

I remember the rumors that "Fremont" was a codename that referred to Google headquarters (in Seattle, now being shut down) and that Valve was somehow incorporating "Chrome" into Steam OS with Google's help so they could have native apps.

 

[Cakeboxer]

Linux is a speck of fly poop on the windshield of gaming.

 

[TheSHEEEP]

Paying as much for a device as the ps5 pro that is weaker with less vram with no fix for a lot of MP games doesn't make a lot of sense and probably won't make a lot of sales.

It is a PC, not a console.
It's not a closed ecosystem where you can make up for the subsidy via overpriced game sales - especially not on PC where games are vastly cheaper. Which is one of the main reasons to play on PC, at least if you play lots of games and not just a few big ones per year.
You could just put a different Linux distro on the Steam Machine or (yuck) Windows, or just stay on SteamOS but never use Steam (not sure why you would, but you could) - and then what? No more income for Valve to make up for the subsidy.

It is a terrible idea.

It competes in the PC market, not in the console market.

I said this before, but if they go that route that is like bringing out the the steam deck NOW with it's 2022 specs and pricing it considerably more than the switch 2.

It is a mid-range PC, so I'd expect it to sell at a mid-range price, with a bit of an uptick for the form factor maybe.
What I don't know is what the demand for a newly-released mid-range PC would be.

I've always personally purchased high-end PCs and over years they became mid-range, and then at some point I got a new high-end machine.
But maybe most people actually purchase new mid-range PCs? I don't know...

 

[Bonfires Down]

Not gonna watch but he has a point. Microsoft needs to make a proper gaming version of Windows and it needs to be free or very cheap.

 

[existensmaximum]

Ah yes Linux - soon to replace Windows!

Every year since the year 2000, at least. Any decade now. Linux is amazing and great for many things but replacing Windows and going truly mainstream in comparison?

Not holding my breath.

 

[CrustyBritches]

I don't think Valve has any interest in a making a general purpose operating system, but it wouldn't be shocking to see SteamOS become a much more common way to play on PC.

 

[Erebus]

So if I want to try Linux gaming on a desktop PC, which distro do I choose? Bazzite? Which one is closer to SteamOS?

 

[Crayon]

So if I want to try Linux gaming on a desktop PC, which distro do I choose? Bazzite? Which one is closer to SteamOS?

Bazzite. It's all good to go out of the box. Even has steam installed.

 

[DenchDeckard]

Competition is great.

Its down to MS to fight for their dominant position in this space, and hopefully we are the ones that win from it

 

[PsyEd]

Have W11 and Linux(CachyOS) on dual boot with secureboot on....been like that since may last year. I only have w11 to play dumb games that need it to be online or that Dx12 game that always perform better on nvidia on windows due to gimped linux drivers.

Everything else is on Cachy....my setup since 2024.

 

[ValiantInstance]

It will always be too large a barrier to entry for Linux gaming to be any more than an enthusiast niche.

95% of pc gamers have one OS on their pc and they're not interested in having two. Windows runs everything, case closed until that changes.

 

[Ozzie666]

Honestly linux market share is probably less than Amiga workbench at it's peak.

People want easy use and PC is still primarily a business machine or work machine for most people.

 

[Ar¢tos]

I learned a lot today from this thread.

• I learned that Windows can never, ever, ever, ever be beaten, and Rome will never, ever, ever, ever fall.
• I learned that Linux was terrible 25 years ago, therefore will be terrible for ever and ever and ever no matter the so called improvements.
• I learned that performance of today is a prophecy of the future. Things never get better or worse. Windows 11 AI Agentic Privacy Sniffer Edition is as good as all previous versions.
• I learned that once you've got market share you can never fail. I know I can trust 3DFX to deliver the best in 3D gaming, Voodoo Forever!

--Posted from Internet Explorer on a Nokia 1100​

Remember, COD is too big to fail!

 

[Merkades]

I learned a lot today from this thread.

• I learned that Windows can never, ever, ever, ever be beaten, and Rome will never, ever, ever, ever fall.
• I learned that Linux was terrible 25 years ago, therefore will be terrible for ever and ever and ever no matter the so called improvements.
• I learned that performance of today is a prophecy of the future. Things never get better or worse. Windows 11 AI Agentic Privacy Sniffer Edition is as good as all previous versions.
• I learned that once you've got market share you can never fail. I know I can trust 3DFX to deliver the best in 3D gaming, Voodoo Forever!

--Posted from Internet Explorer on a Nokia 1100​

I learned you can't understand what you read. I said nothing about Linux not improving in the last 25 years, hell, I even said I hope it does supplant Windows. What I did say was that Linux sucked ass 25 years ago, and it did. I mean you had to do /mount /unmount just to load CDs iirc, just a lot of annoying pointless things. If you used it for something other than in a professional setting, it was not good.

I am looking forward to a reply saying shit I never said.

Edit - in case I did not make it clear enough, when I commented about it sucking ass, I was clearly referring to when my acquaintance was talking about Linux taking over ~25 years ago, not this year, or 10 years ago. 25 years ago. 25. I am sure it has improved since, but I never said or implied anything about that either way.

 

[Hudo]

If Microsoft "doing something" looks like their efforts at Xbox or Windows, then doing something is the last thing they should do. They're better off doing nothing.

 

[Hohenheim]

But there's still issues with Nvidia GPU's on Linux, right?

 

[Shockwave_Fox]

I am really tempted to try Linux - my pc is only for gaming.

But then I remember how much of a cluster I had with setting windows up Nd reconsider it.

 

[Poppinfresh]

But there's still issues with Nvidia GPU's on Linux, right?

Not really, at least not compared to the issues that existed a year or even 6 months ago.

I use my 5090 with CachyOS and it works fine.

Supposedly, there are performance issues with DirectX12 games, but I haven't seen them. I've also heard that Nvidia knows what the problem is and will release a fix early next year.

 

[Kazdane]

The main issue, for me, is that Linux will always be playing catch-up. In my case, things like no Whatsapp app (which means no calls support because the web version doesn't support it, although it's supposedly coming) or AMD Fluid Motion Frames (which works wonders in most games) are annoyances. The first one is actually a pretty big deal because my family uses it often, and the second is mildly annoying because it's a nice functionality to have, especially in older games.

 

[Hohenheim]

Not really, at least not compared to the issues that existed a year or even 6 months ago.

I use my 5090 with CachyOS and it works fine.

Supposedly, there are performance issues with DirectX12 games, but I haven't seen them. I've also heard that Nvidia knows what the problem is and will release a fix early next year.

If they fix those issues I will definitely get bazzite (or steam OS) on my secondary living room PC that functions as a "console".

 

[JohnnyFootball]

The fact is Microsoft assume Window Users are a captive audience and now is not even pretending to care about doing a better job.

This might work for Corporate where CEOs force their underlings to use software they don't want to use. But private home users can only be abused so much.

True, Linux has flaws. But so do Windows, and Microsoft is ADDING new flaws every month, taking their users for granted. At some point there has to be a tipping point.

Linux is trying to give consumers what they want. Microsoft is DETERMINED to make Windows in to something nobody wants.

The only way MS could get any good will, would be the release the code/assests such that the community could build their own Windows gaming OS.

 

[Mister Wolf]

But there's still issues with Nvidia GPU's on Linux, right?

 

[Hohenheim]

Yeah, i'll stick to windows for now.
Have no issues after debloating and removing services and stuff I don't need (game bar, copilot etc)

 

[Laptop1991]

This has been said over and over down the years and while i'm never going to stick up for Windows 11 and what MS are doing with it, and wouldn't complain if it happened, Microsoft's domination is still too great, if all of a sudden they pull a Windows 7 after the mess that was Vista at the time, it will just stay the same, but if it makes Windows better then i'm all for any competition.

 

[Bernkastel]

Fucking MacOS. My wife had a Macbook and it would do everything like Windows but be slightly different. Shit pissed me off!

It's like how we have standardized FPS controls and then some asshole puts aiming on R3. You motherfucker...

Atleast Apple is innovating unlike Microsoft. Apple Silicon is the reason no one can beat Macbooks. Also most creativity apps primarily target macOS and iPad, Windows is an afterthought.

 

[PlayStaytion]

Steam Machines gonna be pirated off hundreds of thousands of peoples porches soon.

This box is built as a baseline for the unoptimized garbage games cause at this point consoles are a lot smarter than that.

 

[alabtrosMyster]

No you have me wrong. I'm not saying people don't play single player im saying they can't just rely on single player to pull people over to Linux.

If you can get these multiplayer games working with better in game FPS, that to me will have more people interested in moving over than just single player.

All I'm saying is that I feel that the wheels are in motion and there is a way, things will come to be when their time comes.

Multiplayer games are going to happen at some point, if the rest works out.

Performance is better in a lot of games, depending on the settings. Many games don't work under Windows anymore, at all, these games often "just work", or require a 2 minute setting change in the UI, on Steam OS because of how Proton works to handle old versions.

 

[JohnnyFootball]

Lack of HDMI 2.1 support has been the biggest killer for me not using Bazzite on my living room PC and caused me to trade in my 9070XT for a 5070 Ti.
If this can pave the way for that issue to be resolved, I would happily trade my 5070 Ti for a 9070 TX and go full bazzite on my living room PC.

It would seem that another version of the open source AMD Linux driver known as Xilinx (never heard of it. Mesa is all I know) has some features.

AMDGPU Driver Lacks HDMI 2.1 While AMD-Xilinx Driver Has Some HDMI 2.1 Support - Phoronix

www.phoronix.com

This is interesting, but still has a way to go. AMD just needs to move the HDMI 2.1 instructions onto the firmware like nvidia and (I believe) Intel has. Both have engineered around the HDMI Forums bullshit. AMD needs to step up to the plate and do the same.

THis is fucking ridiculous.

 

[JohnnyFootball]

I watched the entire video earlier and I don't know how you can come away from that and claim Linux is the future of gaming. Nvidia owns the fucking market and it sucks on Linux, and AMD sucks across the board, so on what planet is Linux going to make a dent enough to become the future of gaming?



It absolutely does not show it, and it's probably better for Linux fans that it didn't.

You clearly havent been paying attention. AMD performance on Linux is actually on par with Linux and can in cass be better.

if you're gonna call out Steve, you should get called out for your own bullshit too.



Look at these AMD GPU benchmarks. DX12 titles favor Windows (which isn't insignificant) . Doom The Dark Ages heavily skews the data towards Windows. If you take that out, they are remarkably close.

 

[Mister Wolf]

You clearly havent been paying attention. AMD performance on Linux is actually on par with Linux and can in cass be better.

if you're gonna call out Steve, you should get called out for your own bullshit too.



Look at these AMD GPU benchmarks. DX12 titles favor Windows (which isn't insignificant) . Doom The Dark Ages heavily skews the data towards Windows. If you take that out, they are remarkably close.

Why should he have to take it out?

 

[JohnnyFootball]

Why should he have to take it out?

Because he maede the claim that AMD sucks all across the board, which is factually not true. AMD's performance is actually quite good on Linux. Doom the Dark Ages is the title in that 16 game benchmark that more heavily skews the data towards Windows.

 

[Mister Wolf]

Because he maede the claim that AMD sucks all across the board, which is factually not true. AMD's performance is actually quite good on Linux. Doom the Dark Ages is the title in that 16 game benchmark that more heavily skews the data towards Windows.

If Linux can't run Doom properly than that's a Linux problem. Something that should be brought to light. No one should have to cater to Linux by curating the games they pick for benckmarks. Especially not omitting popular recently released games or games that are technical showcases for the medium.

 

[alabtrosMyster]

With the latest round of kernel level anti cheat fuckery, I don't think Microsoft will do what it would take to make me stay on Windows. Basically the Dave's Garage Pro Mode with the ability to opt out of any and all telemetry. Hell I'll even go back to paying big bucks for it. It's been far too intrusive for a while and we're just getting less and less for it. Every UI change in the past 3 iterations worked against power users. I was going to set up dual boot over the winter holiday with Windows just getting a small partition for any extreme incompatibility. But I'm just raw dogging it so I push through.

When I installed Bazzite a few months ago I was going to dual boot... Tried a few distributions, see which works best "out of the box" for me, etc. Then I decided that I didn't need Windows at all.

I haven't looked back.

 

[Kacho]

Atleast Apple is innovating unlike Microsoft. Apple Silicon is the reason no one can beat Macbooks. Also most creativity apps primarily target macOS and iPad, Windows is an afterthought.

I remember years ago when MacOS was gonna take over Windows because it was so much better. We had people at my company begging IT to switch to Macs lol. Never happened.

 

[Topher]

I remember years ago when MacOS was gonna take over Windows because it was so much better. We had people at my company begging IT to switch to Macs lol. Never happened.

I prefer Mac to Windows myself, but fact of the matter is that Windows is the established enterprise operating system and that isn't going to change in our lifetime. Mac has taken a sizable chunk of market share away from Windows over the years, but most folks really don't give a shit about any of this and stick with Windows just because. Taking over Windows is a pipe dream.

 

[JohnnyFootball]

If Linux can't run Doom properly than that's a Linux problem. Something that should be brought to light. No one should have to cater to Linux by curating the games they pick for benckmarks. Especially not omitting popular recently released games or games that are technical showcases for the medium.

So whats your response to the games that do run better on Linux? It just seems to me like you are demanding a clean win across the board for Windows.

 

[Bernkastel]

I remember years ago when MacOS was gonna take over Windows because it was so much better. We had people at my company begging IT to switch to Macs lol. Never happened.

Its not about taking over. They just make a better product. Apple Silicon is actual innovation, something Microsoft is not able to match.

 

[Mister Wolf]

So whats your response to the games that do run better on Linux? It just seems to me like you are demanding a clean win across the board for Windows.

Show me. Post some benchmarks. On a Desktop PC like he did. Using the latest GPUs like he did.