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Live chat with J Allard Tomorrow (8/21)
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The Abominable Snowman
Member
Didn't the PS2 also have some huge, huge franchises announced and shown exclusively for PS2 also?Flo_Evans said:
Does X360 have that?
Hey everyone, I just wanted to post right away now that I found out I'm unbanned.
It's a bit unfortunate I couldn't post during all the festivities of finding out that my predictions regarding the 360 stuff was right. I was extremely impressed by those of you who had spent time yelling at me earlier, but openly ate your xbot hats afterward. Didn't think that would happen without threatening.
Anyway, as a gamer I'm genuinlely depressed by the ridiculous price of the system's accessories more than the system. Convenient wireless controllers should cost nowhere near $80, and neither should wireless. How many people have their entertainment center anywhere near their broadband modem and router?
Reading this J Allard stuff just has me more convinced that, no matter how 360 does initially, every negative thing will be scrutinized by the hardcore so closely that praising everything Sony and Nintendo do is going to seem like a breath of fresh air and a break from all the negativity.
While I appreciate Allard's sense of urgency in responding to the hate so quickly and personally, I think it was a vast misjudgement to do so without having any good news to share. Now it's just added insult to injury, and probably done more harm than good. Instead of hating the prices and Microsoft's choice of profits over people (boo-hoo, I know), now we all just hate Allard. That slick not fat bastard.
It's a bit unfortunate I couldn't post during all the festivities of finding out that my predictions regarding the 360 stuff was right. I was extremely impressed by those of you who had spent time yelling at me earlier, but openly ate your xbot hats afterward. Didn't think that would happen without threatening.
Anyway, as a gamer I'm genuinlely depressed by the ridiculous price of the system's accessories more than the system. Convenient wireless controllers should cost nowhere near $80, and neither should wireless. How many people have their entertainment center anywhere near their broadband modem and router?
Reading this J Allard stuff just has me more convinced that, no matter how 360 does initially, every negative thing will be scrutinized by the hardcore so closely that praising everything Sony and Nintendo do is going to seem like a breath of fresh air and a break from all the negativity.
While I appreciate Allard's sense of urgency in responding to the hate so quickly and personally, I think it was a vast misjudgement to do so without having any good news to share. Now it's just added insult to injury, and probably done more harm than good. Instead of hating the prices and Microsoft's choice of profits over people (boo-hoo, I know), now we all just hate Allard. That slick not fat bastard.
The Xbox team has spent a lot of time chatting about the iPod. They even went so far as to design the physical look of the Xbox 360 to look like an iPod. (White case with chrome accents, large circle in the middle).
So the Xbox 360 Xbox Core is Microsoft's attempt at replicating the iPod Shuffle. I think MS got a few things wrong in trying to copy Apple's business model...
Imagine if Apple had released the iPod Shuffle on the same day as the original iPod except the Shuffle was the same exact size as the iPod and only $100 less. Now imagine if because of the Shuffle's limited memory storage space Apple told all of the artists that their iTunes songs would have to be restricted to a max bitrate of 96kbps. All the songs on iTunes would be lower quality and sound inferior to competing music download services, potentially hurting the future of both iTunes and iPod. This is essentially what MS has done to Xbox 360 and it's games.
If MS wanted to replicate the success of iPod and iPod shuffle with Xbox 360 and 360 core, then they should have waited some time before releasing the core and they should not have limited the potential of their games to accomodate the core. The main reasons why someone would buy an iPod shuffle are its significantly smaller size and low price advantage over the iPod. The Xbox 360 core should have come out at a time when MS could give people a smaller redesigned Xbox 360 possibly with some bells and whistles like wi-fi at a very low cost. Like the shuffle, the core system should have had a sizeable portion of flash memory built into it thereby allowing game developers to make full use of the Xbox 360's HDD without having to worry about supporting a system without memory.
Apple could have easily launched a flash player at the same time that the iPod first came out, but this move would have diluted the quality of the iPod name before it could become a phenomenon. Instead Apple waited until a time where they could offer a smaller audio device at a signficantly cheaper price. Timing is important! The reasons for MS to wait are simple, it gives them the opportunity to associate a high quality standard with the Xbox 360 brand and it also gives them time to eventually offer a low cost system in the $100-$150 range which is truly attractive to the low end consumer. The low end consumer is not going to be interested in an expensive $300 device that offers no practical use, size, or design advantages over the Xbox 360.
The main mistakes MS made in trying to copy Apple iPod Shuffle are:
1.) The core is not signficantly cheaper than Xbox 360 keeping it out of reach of the low budget consumer.
2.) The core's hardware offers no unique or desireable advantages over Xbox 360 (ie. smaller size, wi-fi, unique design)
3.) The core's memory limitations should not have been allowed to lower the potential quality of all Xbox 360 games.
4.) The core should not have been launched simultatneously with the Xbox 360 because it dilutes the level of quality associated with the brand.
Unlike the 360 Core, the iPod Shuffle offered users unique design advantages and an inexpensive pricepoint without affecting the quality of the content created for it.
This month's Game Informer Magazine said:
The Chat Transcript said:
So the Xbox 360 Xbox Core is Microsoft's attempt at replicating the iPod Shuffle. I think MS got a few things wrong in trying to copy Apple's business model...
Imagine if Apple had released the iPod Shuffle on the same day as the original iPod except the Shuffle was the same exact size as the iPod and only $100 less. Now imagine if because of the Shuffle's limited memory storage space Apple told all of the artists that their iTunes songs would have to be restricted to a max bitrate of 96kbps. All the songs on iTunes would be lower quality and sound inferior to competing music download services, potentially hurting the future of both iTunes and iPod. This is essentially what MS has done to Xbox 360 and it's games.
If MS wanted to replicate the success of iPod and iPod shuffle with Xbox 360 and 360 core, then they should have waited some time before releasing the core and they should not have limited the potential of their games to accomodate the core. The main reasons why someone would buy an iPod shuffle are its significantly smaller size and low price advantage over the iPod. The Xbox 360 core should have come out at a time when MS could give people a smaller redesigned Xbox 360 possibly with some bells and whistles like wi-fi at a very low cost. Like the shuffle, the core system should have had a sizeable portion of flash memory built into it thereby allowing game developers to make full use of the Xbox 360's HDD without having to worry about supporting a system without memory.
Apple could have easily launched a flash player at the same time that the iPod first came out, but this move would have diluted the quality of the iPod name before it could become a phenomenon. Instead Apple waited until a time where they could offer a smaller audio device at a signficantly cheaper price. Timing is important! The reasons for MS to wait are simple, it gives them the opportunity to associate a high quality standard with the Xbox 360 brand and it also gives them time to eventually offer a low cost system in the $100-$150 range which is truly attractive to the low end consumer. The low end consumer is not going to be interested in an expensive $300 device that offers no practical use, size, or design advantages over the Xbox 360.
The main mistakes MS made in trying to copy Apple iPod Shuffle are:
1.) The core is not signficantly cheaper than Xbox 360 keeping it out of reach of the low budget consumer.
2.) The core's hardware offers no unique or desireable advantages over Xbox 360 (ie. smaller size, wi-fi, unique design)
3.) The core's memory limitations should not have been allowed to lower the potential quality of all Xbox 360 games.
4.) The core should not have been launched simultatneously with the Xbox 360 because it dilutes the level of quality associated with the brand.
Unlike the 360 Core, the iPod Shuffle offered users unique design advantages and an inexpensive pricepoint without affecting the quality of the content created for it.
Lord Error
Insane For Sony
He's got the point that MS is again trying to do what they do best - immitate and try to improve on someone's success model. I think they have missed some chances though - X360 just doesn't look as stylish and richly made as Apple's recent products, and the pricing model might be botched for general buyers.
I don't really understand what the point of the chat was other than to just acknowledge the fact that they're aware that a lot of gamers are very angry and disappointed. Nothing he actually said in the chat was really comforting to those gamers and in fact the interview that Peter Moore gave to IGN where he says that he believes the Core pack will become dominant next year should be extremely unsettling to most hardcore gamers. All of MS's statements regarding "Velocity Girl" and the core pack and 75% of Xbox owners not playing Halo, etc. seems to show that they are not focusing this console on hardcore gamers. I think Allard could have used this opportunity at least to reassure the people reading it that MS hadn't abandoned them for a more lucrative market and that the Xbox 360 would always be foremost a gamers/developers system. Instead we kind of got an explanation from Allard as to why hardcore gamers don't matter that much and how MS will be able to make more money by building a console for casual gamers.Juice said:
I think that hardcore gamers are absolutely critical at the launch of a game system. If hardcore gamers don't propel a console to immediate success within it's first year on the market then the console will never even have a chance to make it into the hands of the casual gamer. I think the biggest thing they have helping them with hardcore gamers right now is simply the fact that this console is launching so much earlier than the others.
Marconelly said:
Be that as it may, the look and design of the X360 was definitely inspired by the iPod so much so that Microsoft bragged that people on the streets of Japan thought it was a product made by Apple. I don't think they've nailed the Apple design quality either, but maybe the console is close enough that average consumer won't care.
It's nice that Allard is actually reading and responding to these emails. I think I will send some comments and suggestions directly to him and his boss.
Is J. Allard is a hypocrite? from the GI interview:
GI: We've heard from developers that because there will be some customers without hard drives for their 360's, that developers are mad that they can't automatically utilize the hard drive like in the original Xbox.
Now J. response is first to talk about the hard drive locking them in specswise, so this time around they told them don't count on the HD and then gave them a 12x dual layer DVD drive which helps them in terms of capacity and allows them to do lots of things they use to do on the hard drive.. Then he says:
"What I won't do is what Playstation did this last generation, which I think is really dangerous, which is to say, "Use the spec of the machine, and we're gonna keep selling more machines that you can sell more games on," and then redesign the system in a way that you can't play that game anymore. If I was Square, I'd be frious at the PS2 redesign [Final Fantasy XI was only playable with the hard drive, which the redesign did not support - ed.]. Great, you redesigned the system and lowered the price to get a broader audience for [Sony], but not for me? That's terrible."
Yeah that definitely wasn't too hot of Sony to do, and we never got any statements from them about it... on the other hand I don't think turning around and selling your new system w/o the hard drive is that much better... though at least in your system folks have the choice to go buy it later...
Is FFXI going to be bundled with the X360 HD?
GI: We've heard from developers that because there will be some customers without hard drives for their 360's, that developers are mad that they can't automatically utilize the hard drive like in the original Xbox.
Now J. response is first to talk about the hard drive locking them in specswise, so this time around they told them don't count on the HD and then gave them a 12x dual layer DVD drive which helps them in terms of capacity and allows them to do lots of things they use to do on the hard drive.. Then he says:
"What I won't do is what Playstation did this last generation, which I think is really dangerous, which is to say, "Use the spec of the machine, and we're gonna keep selling more machines that you can sell more games on," and then redesign the system in a way that you can't play that game anymore. If I was Square, I'd be frious at the PS2 redesign [Final Fantasy XI was only playable with the hard drive, which the redesign did not support - ed.]. Great, you redesigned the system and lowered the price to get a broader audience for [Sony], but not for me? That's terrible."
Yeah that definitely wasn't too hot of Sony to do, and we never got any statements from them about it... on the other hand I don't think turning around and selling your new system w/o the hard drive is that much better... though at least in your system folks have the choice to go buy it later...
Is FFXI going to be bundled with the X360 HD?
DarienA said:
Well, I think they should have maybe done more with Square on that, like release a USB hard drive to use with FFXI just to placate them. I don't feel a single game like FFXI that from what I have seen wasn't selling all that hot anyways, was worth holding up a great redesign of the console that sold butt loads. And comparing sales I don't think Allard has much reason to question anything Sony did if you want to get down too it.
The biggest difference though is how much more important the HD is to the Xbox brand compared to the Playstation brand also. It's not really that I think MS will lose what developer support they had for the HD compared to the Xbox and it being standard. It's more the fact that I was dissappointed overall in how unrealized the HD was utilized in the xbox to begin with and the hopes I had for it being really put to the test in the Xbox 360. Now with it not being standard though I really can't see that happening. I really wanted to see some more robust HD utlilization games like RPGS, music and rhythm type games, a full on Sims type game with many downloads. I mean come on, talk about microtransactions, that would have been a goldmine.